thebandit27 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 When I see Mahomes I see a tall Tyrod. Every bit of the things Mahomes does Tyrod can and has done if not better. One of the videos done up regarding Mahomes being highly touted about in this thread literally showed himrunning away from pressure, heres the thing my grandma was running faster then every defender chasing him. Almost every throw on any of the videos is a deep go or out, nothing else. The offense is so simplistic I dont think many would have a problem running it. Coupled with bare naked wrs with apparently no safety to help the opposing cb and you produce results as everyone on here thinks Mahomes could do in the NFL. Whew, on to your next statement. Im not snobby towards any amateur scout. Firstly, his own bio doesnt list him as a scout, he is a football analyst writer. If he isnt claiming the accolades dont give it to him and act like his opinion as a writer is any more in depth or true than any others thinking, because it likely isnt. He gets paid to write ptoducts that people will read, if jis product said he predicts Mahomes to throw more ints than a blind Brett Favre in the NFL who would read or pay for that? No offense, but you aren't watching much of him if that's what you see. His best throw is the inside slant off of the blast PA. He routinely works the underneath middle off of very quick throws for YAC opportunities, and shows a good eye for pre-snap reads. Check out the Oklahoma game as an example: Could we get him in the 2nd? I think (like always) QBs will get "over-drafted" because teams need them. I say "over drafted" because let's say Dallas picked Dak in round 1 last year and he had the season he did. Nobody would care that he was "over drafted." I am a firm believer that if you love a QB and think he will be "the guy" for 15 years+ you take him as soon as you can, because there is always the chance that you aren't the only one who thinks that. Right now I have him going 25 to Houston...if Buffalo wants him, they probably have to take him at 10 as a practical matter. On principle, if they want him, they should take him at 10 because he's a QB, and there's literally no good not to take a QB that you like in round 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I agree: if you think he's your 15 year QB then he's worth the #1 overall pick, let alone the 10th I understand the argument about value... But you run the risk of someone else grabbing the guy you want. I'd much rather take the guys I really want, let the Mel Kiper's of the world give me a D for the draft, and end up with the guys I really want and believe in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 My favorite thing about Mahomes is the fact his arm talent should allow us to build the same type of offense for both him and Cardale, giving each an opportunity to win the job in a system that suits them and giving us a backup option that doesn't require a dramatic scheme change. Opinion on Mahomes is definitely split with concerns about his level of competition and inconsistent mechanics, but watch a game on Sunday and QBs with arm talent and improvisational skills tend to shine as you simply aren't going to get a lot of opportunity on a perfectly mechanical throw. Obviously all these guys have cause for concern or else they would be going #1 no question. Waiting till the second round on any of the top 4 QBs is not a realistic option, even if a couple of them don't go in the first you've got a minefield with Cleveland - San Fran - Chicago - NYJ in front of us on round 2. There may even be 5 QBs off the board by our second round pick the way Webb looks to be rising. I agree: if you think he's your 15 year QB then he's worth the #1 overall pick, let alone the 10th I understand the argument about value... But you run the risk of someone else grabbing the guy you want. I'd much rather take the guys I really want, let the Mel Kiper's of the world give me a D for the draft, and end up with the guys I really want and believe in. "Value" is such a ridiculous concept when it comes to the draft, especially when you get past the couple of consensus blue chippers at the top. There simply is not a ton of talent difference between guys going in the teens and guys going in the 40s, it almost always comes down to scheme fit and team need where guys end up landing, either way with a 1st or 2nd round pick you are looking to land a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 My favorite thing about Mahomes is the fact his arm talent should allow us to build the same type of offense for both him and Cardale, giving each an opportunity to win the job in a system that suits them and giving us a backup option that doesn't require a dramatic scheme change. Opinion on Mahomes is definitely split with concerns about his level of competition and inconsistent mechanics, but watch a game on Sunday and QBs with arm talent and improvisational skills tend to shine as you simply aren't going to get a lot of opportunity on a perfectly mechanical throw. Obviously all these guys have cause for concern or else they would be going #1 no question. Waiting till the second round on any of the top 4 QBs is not a realistic option, even if a couple of them don't go in the first you've got a minefield with Cleveland - San Fran - Chicago - NYJ in front of us on round 2. There may even be 5 QBs off the board by our second round pick the way Webb looks to be rising. "Value" is such a ridiculous concept when it comes to the draft, especially when you get past the couple of consensus blue chippers at the top. There simply is not a ton of talent difference between guys going in the teens and guys going in the 40s, it almost always comes down to scheme fit and team need where guys end up landing, either way with a 1st or 2nd round pick you are looking to land a starter. Mechanics are important when they result in inaccurate throws. The fact that Mahomes is able to get the ball where he wants without textbook foot work is amazing. And Mahomes is also an exception. Some guys just break the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I like Mahomes but I think Cardale is a better QB. Has a stronger arm a lot bigger and athletic than Mahomes. I think if Cardale went back and started at Ohio state he would be the top QB in this class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I like Mahomes but I think Cardale is a better QB. Has a stronger arm a lot bigger and athletic than Mahomes. I think if Cardale went back and started at Ohio state he would be the top QB in this class. Cardale is bigger. Mahomes had some scouts saying best arm at the combine since Favre. Mahomes also is way further along as a QB. He throws receivers open, uses nice touch passes. Cardale machine guns 100 mph fastballs at WR's 5 yards away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Cardale is bigger. Mahomes had some scouts saying best arm at the combine since Favre. Mahomes also is way further along as a QB. He throws receivers open, uses nice touch passes. Cardale machine guns 100 mph fastballs at WR's 5 yards away. I thought Farve use to machine gun balls at WRs. Finger breaker. Yes Cardale has a lot of work still. Would be great tom see us draft Mahomes in the 2nd and develop both of them together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I thought Farve use to machine gun balls at WRs. Finger breaker. Yes Cardale has a lot of work still. Would be great tom see us draft Mahomes in the 2nd and develop both of them together. Oh Cardale has elite tools, no doubt. And I do like that he seems like a gamer. Doesn't panic like EJ. Will be interesting to see where he is in training camp this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 He's just not the type of player you take top ten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I love the Farve comps. Dick pic or no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 He's just not the type of player you take top ten. That's how I feel. The guy can make all the throws. There is no question that he has an incredibly good arm. Playing in the Big 12 just makes it so difficult to properly assess how he'll translate to the pros. Big 12 receivers are running open all over the field every game. Defense is optional in that conference. Moving from Big 12 football to the pros is almost akin to playing a different sport. It's like moving from softball to baseball. If he played in any of the other major conferences he'd be the number one pick. He is just too much of a wild card to use a top ten pick on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 That's how I feel. The guy can make all the throws. There is no question that he has an incredibly good arm. Playing in the Big 12 just makes it so difficult to properly assess how he'll translate to the pros. Big 12 receivers are running open all over the field every game. Defense is optional in that conference. Moving from Big 12 football to the pros is almost akin to playing a different sport. It's like moving from softball to baseball. If he played in any of the other major conferences he'd be the number one pick. He is just too much of a wild card to use a top ten pick on. How is the Big 12 not a major conference???? SEC Big 10 Pac 12 Big 12 ACC These are the big 5 conferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 When I see Ray Lucas I see a tall Tyrod. Ftfy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) How is the Big 12 not a major conference???? SEC Big 10 Pac 12 Big 12 ACC These are the big 5 conferences. I was just saying that the defense in that league is certainly not major conference worthy. It's nonexistent. That's why they produced Bryce Petty and Geno Smith. Those guys lit it up on Saturday's. They even fooled teams into using relatively high draft picks on them. I'm not comparing Mahomes talent to those guys. I'm just saying that even a couple total busts put up all time great college numbers in that conference. Edited March 7, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I was just saying that the defense in that league is certainly not major conference worthy. It's nonexistent. That's why they produced Bryce Petty and Geno Smith. Those guys lit it up on Saturday's. They even fooled teams into using relatively high draft picks on them. I'm not comparing Mahomes talent to those guys. I'm just saying that even a couple total busts put up all time great college numbers in that conference. Didn't they also produce Dak Prescott? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Didn't they also produce Dak Prescott? ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 ??? Gah--not sure why, but I was thinking of TTU instead of MIss St. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Wentz played in Division II went top 2. Roethlisberger played in MAC and went 11th overall. Non QB's Khalil Mack played at UB but he looks ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Didn't they also produce Dak Prescott? No. Dak played in the SEC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 The extra year for players drafted in the 1st round will lead to teams wanting to draft QBs with a 2nd round grade late in the 1st round. That is why it is likely we will see any team in QB need (Jets/49ers/Browns, etc.) who did not address the need with the top 10 selection try to trade back into the latter half of the 1st round. Barring a trade with the Browns for Tyrod (and whatever the Bills would get in exchange), all of those QB needy teams would have more to offer in a trade-up situation than the Bills. That is why the Bills would either need to trade DOWN (like they did back in 2013) or bite the bullet and take Mahomes at 10 if they really believe he has a chance to be a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 No. Dak played in the SEC Yeah I already corrected it above--I was thinking TTU (probably because we're talking about Mahomes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 No offense, but you aren't watching much of him if that's what you see. His best throw is the inside slant off of the blast PA. He routinely works the underneath middle off of very quick throws for YAC opportunities, and shows a good eye for pre-snap reads. Check out the Oklahoma game as an example: Right now I have him going 25 to Houston...if Buffalo wants him, they probably have to take him at 10 as a practical matter. On principle, if they want him, they should take him at 10 because he's a QB, and there's literally no good not to take a QB that you like in round 1. i dont think you quite know what you are seeing. 50%ish of those routes were comebacks which is a form of a go route, id say another 25% were out routes. He threw a couple of slants but what i see is a guy overconfident in his arm and gonna throw more picks than a blind jp losman. He also isnt as fast as he thinks he is. A ton of those throws he was absolutely bailed out on. Hes not a true 1st round talent. I wouldnt touch him till late second early third. Thats being generous and thats my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Didn't they also produce Dak Prescott? Big 12 did produce Andy Dalton though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) i dont think you quite know what you are seeing. 50%ish of those routes were comebacks which is a form of a go route, id say another 25% were out routes. He threw a couple of slants but what i see is a guy overconfident in his arm and gonna throw more picks than a blind jp losman. He also isnt as fast as he thinks he is. A ton of those throws he was absolutely bailed out on. Hes not a true 1st round talent. I wouldnt touch him till late second early third. Thats being generous and thats my opinion. Um, yes, I do know what I'm seeing. If you were able to watch the first 90 seconds of that video and didn't see him hitting the quick throws over the middle, then I'm not sure what you were watching. Also, no, a comeback route is not a form of go-route. A "comeback" can be a 3, 4, or deep 7 route. It's fine if you have a different opinion, but let's not ignore what's there. Edited March 7, 2017 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 i dont think you quite know what you are seeing Making so many new friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 i dont think you quite know what you are seeing. 50%ish of those routes were comebacks which is a form of a go route, id say another 25% were out routes. He threw a couple of slants but what i see is a guy overconfident in his arm and gonna throw more picks than a blind jp losman. He also isnt as fast as he thinks he is. A ton of those throws he was absolutely bailed out on. Hes not a true 1st round talent. I wouldnt touch him till late second early third. Thats being generous and thats my opinion. What QB prospects do you like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Big 12 did produce Andy Dalton though No it didn't, they didn't join the Big 12 until after he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 It's not like Mahomes never played teams outside the Big 12. The original point was a bit of hyperbole. He's a TT super fan. He's blowing me up w excuses in the Watson thread.Every qb stinks cuz TT can't be touched Now it all makes sense. When you love someone looking at other QB's must feel like cheating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Wentz played in Division II went top 2. Roethlisberger played in MAC and went 11th overall. Non QB's Khalil Mack played at UB but he looks ok. All good examples, but I could make the arguement that both Wentz and Roethlisberger played in far more pro style systems than Mahomes. The elite DII teams can prepare a guy for the pros just as much as DI. The MAC was also producing some quality NFL QB's at the time of Roethlisberger. The Big 12 has produced nothing of quality at the QB position. It's like a different sport. Teams run screens and all go's as receivers run unhindered all over the field. The Big 12 QB is like the point guard, and the end zone is the basket. Scores like 70-63 are not uncommon. Mahomes has a ton of arm talent. It's unfair to compare him to anyone else. Playing in the Big 12 doesn't negate the talent he has. I just would be afraid to use a high pick on him. It's not like Mahomes never played teams outside the Big 12. The original point was a bit of hyperbole. Now it all makes sense. When you love someone looking at other QB's must feel like cheating... Having concerns about the conference and style of play is not hyperbole. It's just an opinion that leaves some feeling less enthusiastic about Mahomes than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 No it didn't, they didn't join the Big 12 until after he left. Ah, I thought they joined in '10. Turns out it was '11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 All good examples, but I could make the arguement that both Wentz and Roethlisberger played in far more pro style systems than Mahomes. The elite DII teams can prepare a guy for the pros just as much as DI. The MAC was also producing some quality NFL QB's at the time of Roethlisberger. The Big 12 has produced nothing of quality at the QB position. It's like a different sport. Teams run screens and all go's as receivers run unhindered all over the field. The Big 12 QB is like the point guard, and the end zone is the basket. Scores like 70-63 are not uncommon. Mahomes has a ton of arm talent. It's unfair to compare him to anyone else. Playing in the Big 12 doesn't negate the talent he has. I just would be afraid to use a high pick on him. Having concerns about the conference and style of play is not hyperbole. It's just an opinion that leaves some feeling less enthusiastic about Mahomes than others. There is game tape of Mahomes playing LSU. Your statement made it sound like every Mahomes game should be dismissed because "no defense". And it works in other ways as well. Mahomes had terrible protection compared to other prospects, etc. You have to scout the traits and figure out what you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I haven't watched a lot of college football(outside of a few games I bet on during the season, I've watched none.) From what I've heard about Watson is that he's an all time great college QB, but his game won't translate well to the NFL. He doesn't make enough throws from the pocket, lacks accuracy too often, etc. I simply don't agree. The tape tells a very different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I simply don't agree. The tape tells a very different story. For those that love TT, every college QB is a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 There is game tape of Mahomes playing LSU. Your statement made it sound like every Mahomes game should be dismissed because "no defense". And it works in other ways as well. Mahomes had terrible protection compared to other prospects, etc. You have to scout the traits and figure out what you have. Fair enough. I don't want it sound like all his success is becaue of no defense. I'm just really afraid of a predetermined read air raid offense QB. He has all time great arm talent. It means nothing if he can't adjust to the pro game. It won't be easy because he is already faced with a steep learning curve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 There is game tape of Mahomes playing LSU. Your statement made it sound like every Mahomes game should be dismissed because "no defense". And it works in other ways as well. Mahomes had terrible protection compared to other prospects, etc. You have to scout the traits and figure out what you have. I agree with this^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 For those that love TT, every college QB is a bust. I would probably be called one of those people. I actually don't love TT (I think he's average) but I think that this years QB class will be an all around bust. I don't know why some people think that every QB class must have a future star in it. Talk to me about next year and it's a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan2313 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I would probably be called one of those people. I actually don't love TT (I think he's average) but I think that this years QB class will be an all around bust. I don't know why some people think that every QB class must have a future star in it. Talk to me about next year and it's a different story. You were probably saying this same exact thing last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) You were probably saying this same exact thing last year. No I wasn't. Why is it so unreasonable to think that an entire QB draft class can be a bust? It's not like it hasn't happened before. Why am I required to like one of the QB's this year? Edited March 7, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I would probably be called one of those people. I actually don't love TT (I think he's average) but I think that this years QB class will be an all around bust. I don't know why some people think that every QB class must have a future star in it. Talk to me about next year and it's a different story. For what it is worth my evaluations are only based on what I see on film. I don't try and force QBs up the board just to say one is worth a top 5 or top 10 pick. I was the biggest critic going of both the Eagles and Rams last year because I didn't think either of those Quarterbacks were worth near what they gave up for them. I don't think there is a QB in this class you should trade the farm for either. But I do think there is one with a very good chance to be a franchise guy and another who has a shot to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) No I wasn't. Why is it so unreasonable to think that an entire QB draft class can be a bust? It's not like it hasn't happened before. Why am I required to like one of the QB's this year? Because that doesn't happen that often. I just looked at the last 6 classes and only 2013 could be described that way. 1/6= 16% Bills fans have EJ Syndrome, the fear of EJ around every corner!! Edited March 7, 2017 by jeffismagic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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