Alphadawg7 Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) @Alphadawg7 -- if one could point to injuries that are similar in nature or tied to specific training or practice techniques, then one could make some presumption about the training/medical staff. I don't think that is the case here. Sometimes luck, or fate, is just what it is. I totally get that...however, this has been a regular theme with this team for a while. There is a reason teams change strength and conditioning coaches, training staff, and medical staff. Not everyone is as good at their job as the next guy... So given that this has been an ongoing problem under those people for some time now, when do we start looking internally at those departments as part of the problem? If this was just last year and then we had some bad luck this year, then I get that...but injury issues have been a consistent problem with this team for a long time and it can't just always be bad luck. When there is a pattern, especially a well established pattern, there is more often than not contributing factors to that problem. Not to mention, there have been quite a few questionable decisions over the years by the Bills medical staff in letting guys come back to early and stuff that continue to create set backs. Coaches want the players on the field...Players want to be on the field...but ultimately our training staff and medical staff makes the determination of the risks of the player playing before they are recovered. They need to do a better job of getting our guys ready to play so they don't keep aggravating the same injuries to the point where they linger all year and are in and out of the lineup. Holding a guy out a week or two is better than having him play hurt for the bulk of the season or make the injury worse and miss time or the remainder of the season. Edited August 9, 2016 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 I dunno, Sammy has been singing the praises of the training staff for getting him healthy and ready for the season following his surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Football is a violent contact sport played by men with unnatural strength and speed. Injuries will happen. They happen to every team. It's a violent game that I personally don't think humans are supposed to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) I dunno, Sammy has been singing the praises of the training staff for getting him healthy and ready for the season following his surgery. Of course he is...its also all he knows in Buffalo, so if he feels ready he will sing them praises. And any training staff for any team in the NFL is going to be competent enough to get guys ready once they are hurt...but there is also the impact that the training staff has on a players ability to avoid injuries in the first place. And lets not forget, Sammy had an OFF season to get ready for this year. I would argue they mishandled Sammy's injury during the season last year to the point it lingered for far longer than it should have. Not to mention Taylors and McCoys where they kept letting them play with injuries that need time to heal and they just continued to linger to the point they STILL missed time. So not only did they STILL miss the same amount of time they would have had they just held them out to heal, they also played in several games below par with lingering injuries that directly impact their ability to be consistent and effective. Look, I am not flat out blaming the staff for every injury...but at some point when there is the same problem year after year at the rate we experience them, you have to start looking for factors that could be contributing to the problem beyond just "bad luck". Thats all I am saying. And I get that players and coaches have a say in those decisions, however it starts with the training and medical staff. And strength and condition staff also is responsible for putting the players in the best position to avoid injuries as well. Edited August 9, 2016 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 I dunno, Sammy has been singing the praises of the training staff for getting him healthy and ready for the season following his surgery. Yeah, but I heard here that he was going to miss the season because his foot fell off or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 The sheer number of dumb comments in this thread is impressive. Especially given there is NO mystery here...first diagnosis is Partially torn ACL. They are having a second opinion confirm the diagnosis, but that can not be done until they get the swelling down. So where is the mystery other than the mystery of why people on here seem to think their demand and need to know supersedes medical science and procedure? The real and bigger question is this: is there something contributing to the over whelming amount of injuries this team faces to key players year after year? Last year we literally had one of the worst, if not worst, overall injury situation in the NFL. We lost all key playmakers on offense for parts of the season, their backups, and some for the season. Even when playing our players were often playing hurt like Taylor, Sammy, McCoy, Clay, and key members of the OL...not to mention the key people we lost on defense. We are already off to a dismal start in the injury department and we havent even played our first preseason game. Its so bad, I almost rater see guys like Sammy, McCoy, Taylor, Clay, AW, KW, Dareus, Gilmore, and Darby never play a single snap in preseason. So why is this? I don't recall seeing any changes to our strength and conditioning staff, so maybe we start there. What about the condition of the fields we practice on and in the stadium? Either we are just that unlucky or there is something else that seems to repeat this pattern year after year. And I don't want to hear the naive response that all teams have injuries...no kidding...but we continuously get hit among the hardest every year IMO and at some point "bad lucky" or "cursed" can't remain the most common answer and this team needs to look to solve this problem. There's really not much of substance going on to discuss, aside from contract stuff with Taylor and Gilmore. What we know for sure is that Ragland has a grade 2 ACL sprain, which is a partially torn ACL. That's pretty much it here. There's been a lot of misinformation and speculation too. I couldn't find anything reliable on whether or not his knee was "loose". That's a big deal because instability in the knee with a grade 2 injury points toward surgery. A stable knee would be unlikely to need it. There's nothing more that has been made public regarding the first opinion so we don't even know if it was conclusive in any way,mother than to confirm the partial tear. We will just have to wait and see. Or we can sit and speculate. It doesn't much matter. We should know the course soon. One question for those who might know. If his knee has some slight instability, could the course of action be to rehab it and see if it responds before having surgery (if needed)? Having surgery now or in 6 weeks really would affect his availability this season and it'd give him a chance to possibly play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 BREAKING NEWS: A six member council of the supreme and general inquisition has been established to include Bucky Gleason, Mike Schopp, The Bulldog, and to be led by Grand Inquisitor Jerry Sullivan. The accused parties are said to include the entire Bills training staff, led by head of strength and conditioning Eric Ciano, head coach Rex Ryan, general manager Doug Whaley, and owners Terry and Kim Pegula. The competency of the current training staff, extent of crimes against humanity committed at One Bills Drive, and proper punishment, if any, are the issues to be explored. Maximum penalties may include burning at the stake. The council will convene today at 5:00pm at One Bills Drive. Critics of current Bills training protocol and supporters of widespread change among the training staff are encouraged to attend. In anticipation of a large turnout, early arrival is encouraged. "It's not too early to staaaaat shaaapening yaaaah pitchfaaaks and lighting yaaaah taaaaches," commented Grand Inquisitor Sullivan, when asked about the threat of violence at the inquisition. Further details will be posted as they become available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Of course he is...its also all he knows in Buffalo, so if he feels ready he will sing them praises. Umm, actually, it's the first time he spent the offseason in Buffalo since he became a pro and he said he may do it every year because of how impressed he is with the staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 It's a violent game that I personally don't think humans are supposed to play. Wow you really come across as an amateur who doesn't know much about football with that statement. You would never, ever, hear a professional involved in the game, like say, a General Manager, make such a statement about football. Geez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Wow you really come across as an amateur who doesn't know much about football with that statement. You would never, ever, hear a professional involved in the game, like say, a General Manager, make such a statement about football. Geez. You mean like this GM: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/15700080/buffalo-bills-gm-doug-whaley-calls-football-violent-game-personally-think-humans-supposed-play I assume you're being sarcastic and referencing this story, but you never know with this board as it could just be another fact-less rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) You mean like this GM: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/15700080/buffalo-bills-gm-doug-whaley-calls-football-violent-game-personally-think-humans-supposed-play I assume you're being sarcastic and referencing this story, but you never know with this board as it could just be another fact-less rant. The parody of post #614 ought to be sufficient to establish basic literacy and intelligence. It's also why he went out of his way to reference a General Manager. Edited August 9, 2016 by Dr. Who Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Nails Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Cliffs notes: depends on how torn and how stable knee is. Prognoses: tbd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Yes, Dr. Geier, but what about a ruptured spleen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 There's really not much of substance going on to discuss, aside from contract stuff with Taylor and Gilmore. What we know for sure is that Ragland has a grade 2 ACL sprain, which is a partially torn ACL. That's pretty much it here. There's been a lot of misinformation and speculation too. I couldn't find anything reliable on whether or not his knee was "loose". That's a big deal because instability in the knee with a grade 2 injury points toward surgery. A stable knee would be unlikely to need it. There's nothing more that has been made public regarding the first opinion so we don't even know if it was conclusive in any way,mother than to confirm the partial tear. We will just have to wait and see. Or we can sit and speculate. It doesn't much matter. We should know the course soon. One question for those who might know. If his knee has some slight instability, could the course of action be to rehab it and see if it responds before having surgery (if needed)? Having surgery now or in 6 weeks really would affect his availability this season and it'd give him a chance to possibly play. Barley good questions. To the best of my knowledge, though, it's often a bit less clear cut - in a grade 2 sprain, there may be instability due in part to swelling and to stretching of the ligaments, and there's a judgement call involved in whether or not a partial tear should be surgically repaired or whether it will provide enough stability to the joint as it heals. I expect no one is in a hurry to make a decision, and that's probably the right call - let the swelling subside completely and then re-assess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Barley good questions. To the best of my knowledge, though, it's often a bit less clear cut - in a grade 2 sprain, there may be instability due in part to swelling and to stretching of the ligaments, and there's a judgement call involved in whether or not a partial tear should be surgically repaired or whether it will provide enough stability to the joint as it heals. I expect no one is in a hurry to make a decision, and that's probably the right call - let the swelling subside completely and then re-assess. I heard the report that Ragland was walking around it but bandaged and no crutches That didnt make sense to me....if you are trying to get swelling down on a injury you would have thought he would be on crutches and using the R.I.C.E. method care.....to get the swelling down to get the good MRI look. I dont know what to make of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Barley good questions. To the best of my knowledge, though, it's often a bit less clear cut - in a grade 2 sprain, there may be instability due in part to swelling and to stretching of the ligaments, and there's a judgement call involved in whether or not a partial tear should be surgically repaired or whether it will provide enough stability to the joint as it heals. I expect no one is in a hurry to make a decision, and that's probably the right call - let the swelling subside completely and then re-assess. I have no medical knowledge on the subject, but I suspect you are exactly right here. They are going to take their time and try to make the right call for the young man's career. As much as we would all like to have him this year, including the Bills management and coaches, a mistake here could cost him another year or worse. A week more or less in the decision process is not going to make any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 A kid on my son's HS team had this situation. You give it ample time to treat and heal and get as well as it's going to get, then let him go and see what happens. Is it more complicated that that? Maybe, but that's the way I see it. (My son's buddy ended up tearing his but still played college ball after surgery.) If it's going to tear, better shortly after the treating/healing period than December where it leaks into next year. Injuries happen, but it does feel like we are a little snake bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 With Whaley and Pegula at the wheel. Literally. Eyeballed Kimmers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Get Ragland and Shaq back just in time for playoffs so we are all set Lol. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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