Does anyone feel like the roster can be better this year?

[FireChan]

 

I'd agree with you if it wasn't part of a plan laid out last year by Whaley and company. They spent big last year to reload the offense which needed it. In so doing, they were aware (and planned accordingly) that it would limit their ability to do anything but retain their own guys (Glenn, Gilmore, Dareus, Bradham at the time) this off season.

 

The Pegulas brought a willingness to spend and a seemingly bottomless pit of dough, but with the NFL having a cap Whaley and JO had to decide how best to use their new funds. Some may disagree that spending to bring in Richie, Clay, Harvin, Taylor, and then on McCoy through trade was a good idea but I can't. Clay, McCoy, and (hopefully) Taylor will be three guys who will form the core of the team moving forward (all 27 or under) along with Watkins, Glenn, Dareus, and (hopefully) Gilmore on the defensive side. Hopefully #19 in the draft will become a core player as well (and Whaley needs him to be).

 

That's a really solid core to build around. It requires trimming some fat from previous regimes and is most assuredly a two off season process (this being year 2), but I don't see how rational people could look at that plan and think it's a disaster. Perfect? No. But the plan being executed (which again, we were told about for the past 12 months and counting) is making this team better in the short term and long term (imo).

Your making the argument that by virtue of there being a "plan," it is a good one. I disagree. Mostly because the plan didn't work, and they are, at best, in contingency mode.

 

A two offseason process was never indicated prior to 2015. You are changing the narrative before our eyes. We went all in, win now in 2015, and now we're overhauling and re-tooling in a two year process. To say it's a disaster and the team is set back a decade is hyperbole, sure. To say the plan failed and failed miserably in 2015 is not.

 

I don't disagree that we have a solid core still. I do disagree that we're better in the short term for it. How can we be when we are losing role players left and right? We are not better in 2016 than we were in 15. To me, that is the definition of being worse in the short term.

 

Which Whaley seems pretty adept at finding wouldnt u say?

I wouldn't. All of Whaley's LB's suck.

Edited March 11, 2016 by FireChan

[3rdand12]

Whaley thinks very highly of Valles for whatever that's worth.

I know. I know nothing of him though.

Your making the argument that by virtue of there being a "plan," it is a good one. I disagree. Mostly because the plan didn't work, and they are, at best, in contingency mode.

 

A two offseason process was never indicated prior to 2015. You are changing the narrative before our eyes. We went all in, win now in 2015, and now we're overhauling and re-tooling in a two year process. To say it's a disaster and the team is set back a decade is hyperbole, sure. To say the plan failed and failed miserably in 2015 is not.

 

I don't disagree that we have a solid core still. I do disagree that we're better in the short term for it. How can we be when we are losing role players left and right? We are not better in 2016 than we were in 15. To me, that is the definition of being worse in the short term.

 

I wouldn't. All of Whaley's LB's suck.

Brown has taken a beating. But do admit i think he will come around this year.

can't think of any others for some reason ..

Edited March 11, 2016 by 3rdand12

[thebandit27]

I know. I know nothing of him though.

Brown has taken a beating. But do admit i think he will come around this year.

can't think of any others for some reason though..

 

Valles was seen as a guy that came out of Virginia a year (maybe even two) too early. Not refined at all, but an outstanding athlete.

 

Very high upside guy, but it would surprise me if he were a realistic starting option in 2016. He could, however, be a contributor as a backup edge defender if indeed he's learned to improve his technique.

[3rdand12]

 

Valles was seen as a guy that came out of Virginia a year (maybe even two) too early. Not refined at all, but an outstanding athlete.

 

Very high upside guy, but it would surprise me if he were a realistic starting option in 2016. He could, however, be a contributor as a backup edge defender if indeed he's learned to improve his technique.

Thank you good sir !!

so we still need an End i think. Wynn is healed up as i Carrington i hope?

[Best Player Available]

Thank you good sir !!

so we still need an End i think. Wynn is healed up as i Carrington i hope?

I liked Wynn in 2014. At the very least a good rotational DE.

[26CornerBlitz]

Two additional picks in the draft just helped our chances.

[3rdand12]

I liked Wynn in 2014. At the very least a good rotational DE.

Me too! key word being rotational. and we know how Rex struggles with substitutions ha HA!!

Two additional picks in the draft just helped our chances.

?

[26CornerBlitz]

Me too! key word being rotational. and we know how Rex struggles with substitutions ha HA!!

?

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/185385-compensatory-picks-thread/?do=findComment&comment=3893255

[TheBillsBlues]

 

Valles was seen as a guy that came out of Virginia a year (maybe even two) too early. Not refined at all, but an outstanding athlete.

 

Very high upside guy, but it would surprise me if he were a realistic starting option in 2016. He could, however, be a contributor as a backup edge defender if indeed he's learned to improve his technique.

Let's hope that's the case

[3rdand12]

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/185385-compensatory-picks-thread/?do=findComment&comment=3893255

oh boy !! Thanks. I enjoy good news

[Deranged Rhino]

Your making the argument that by virtue of there being a "plan," it is a good one. I disagree. Mostly because the plan didn't work, and they are, at best, in contingency mode.

 

A two offseason process was never indicated prior to 2015. You are changing the narrative before our eyes. We went all in, win now in 2015, and now we're overhauling and re-tooling in a two year process. To say it's a disaster and the team is set back a decade is hyperbole, sure. To say the plan failed and failed miserably in 2015 is not.

 

I don't disagree that we have a solid core still. I do disagree that we're better in the short term for it. How can we be when we are losing role players left and right? We are not better in 2016 than we were in 15. To me, that is the definition of being worse in the short term.

 

 

The bolded is incorrect. As last off season was unfolding Whaley made it very clear what the plan was: reload the offense in 2015, resign our own in 2016. That's not changing the narrative, that's listening to it. There are plenty of sources that back this up. I'm not saying just because there's a plan it's good, I'm saying the plan is good. The plan was to rebuild an offense which had been woeful while leaving enough room cap wise to resign what Whaley believes to be the core of the team moving forward. They ABSOLUTELY expected / wanted to make the playoffs last year and were expecting Rex to maintain the defense at the very least while the offense gelled. The later didn't happen -- which falls on Rex more than it does on Whaley.

 

Whaley's vision with the roster is sound. The talent on the roster has improved each year he's been in charge, it's hard to argue otherwise. I would quibble with the idea that we're losing "role players left and right" -- by definition role players can be found anywhere (on the team already, bargain bin UFAs, and of course the draft). I like Leo and Bradham more than most but their replacements are on the roster or will be found early in the draft. Ditto with Mario who, I think you would agree, while talented didn't make the team better in 2015.

 

2015 was a disappointment, but that doesn't mean the overall vision for where the team is going is flawed. Right now they've locked up (or are in the process of locking up) the core talent on the team with plenty of room to finish the job (and add pieces) next off season. Judging the roster before UFA or the draft has concluded is kind of stacking the deck.

[Heitz]

I do. Thanks.

[Luxy312]

I don't see any reason why the roster can't be better. Mario had 3 good years in Buffalo prior to last year's dud of a 5 sack season. He simply does not fit into the defensive scheme that the Bills will be running now. Bradham hasn't started a whole season in 4 years. He can be replaced with what's already on the roster, free agency or even the draft. I like the addition of Boykin and Little. I'm pretty sure that they'll contribute more than Harvin did in his whole 5 games of service. They're both big guys that will help draw some of the coverage off of Watkins. Boykin was catching passes from Taylor in college to boot. I'm not sure why, year after year, that fans believe that the team can keep everyone that they had in the year before, grab 6 guys in free agency and then draft another 6-7 guys beyond that. It's fodder to say the least.

[Maury Ballstein]

I do. Thanks.

Me too. Tyrod/McCoy/Sammy/AW all should have better seasons.

 

The "realists" are coming on strong tho !

[FireChan]

 

The bolded is incorrect. As last off season was unfolding Whaley made it very clear what the plan was: reload the offense in 2015, resign our own in 2016. That's not changing the narrative, that's listening to it. There are plenty of sources that back this up. I'm not saying just because there's a plan it's good, I'm saying the plan is good. The plan was to rebuild an offense which had been woeful while leaving enough room cap wise to resign what Whaley believes to be the core of the team moving forward. They ABSOLUTELY expected / wanted to make the playoffs last year and were expecting Rex to maintain the defense at the very least while the offense gelled. The later didn't happen -- which falls on Rex more than it does on Whaley.

 

Whaley's vision with the roster is sound. The talent on the roster has improved each year he's been in charge, it's hard to argue otherwise. I would quibble with the idea that we're losing "role players left and right" -- by definition role players can be found anywhere (on the team already, bargain bin UFAs, and of course the draft). I like Leo and Bradham more than most but their replacements are on the roster or will be found early in the draft. Ditto with Mario who, I think you would agree, while talented didn't make the team better in 2015.

 

2015 was a disappointment, but that doesn't mean the overall vision for where the team is going is flawed. Right now they've locked up (or are in the process of locking up) the core talent on the team with plenty of room to finish the job (and add pieces) next off season. Judging the roster before UFA or the draft has concluded is kind of stacking the deck.

Oh no, you misunderstand. Clearly that was the plan. The team, however, was not supposed to be coming into '16 in need of a defensive overhaul. That's where the change in narrative applies. You're saying it was supposed to take 2 offseasons as a process. Since when? Since when was the plan "two years of Rex, overhauling the defense and drafting for his system" to make the playoffs?

 

It wasn't. Not until 2015 got into full-swing. Hell, part of the reason the Pegulas wanted Rex hired was because he was veteran head coach who would hit the ground running and not have any rookie growing pains. To pretend that wasn't the "plan," is just disingenuous. The plan was spend in '15, be successful due to the massive dollars thrown around, then keep the roster together as much as possible in '16. You are glossing over the most important part of the plan. It having on the field success.

 

Who is Bradham's replacement on the roster as starting LB? Who is McK's as a good #3 CB who can play outside? I'll leave Mario alone, because that issue is not as cut-and-dried as the rest, and no one wants to go down that rabbit hole.

 

I'd argue that the vision of the team was to win in 2015. The disappointment of that season was proof positive that the Doug Whaley plan has not worked (yet). Now, we may bounce back. We may not. But I won't concede that Doug Whaley's main goal wasn't to make the playoffs in 2015 and he spent accordingly.

 

Fair point on stacking the deck before UFA and the draft though. These are more my fears than anything, that the '16 team will be worse off, talent-wise than '15. That's how it appears to be going. For all we know, Whaley will find a 5th round All-Pro LB and all will be well.

 

Go Bills.

Edited March 11, 2016 by FireChan

[Niagara Dude]

No i think we will be worst then last season and i expect both Whaley (made a mess of our cap) and Rex to be fired after the season. This team has lost way more then they have added.

[Virgil]

If the plan is depth from FA and 2-3 starters from the draft, I feel like the best we can hope for is a wash in talent. We lost starters at DE, LB, CB and needed a RT, another LB, arguably a #2 WR.

 

I don't see how we can get better and we are banking on draft success. Which, based off the past few years, not impossible to believe.

[ndirish1978]

If the plan is depth from FA and 2-3 starters from the draft, I feel like the best we can hope for is a wash in talent. We lost starters at DE, LB, CB and needed a RT, another LB, arguably a #2 WR.

 

I don't see how we can get better and we are banking on draft success. Which, based off the past few years, not impossible to believe.

 

Well obviously you are a super impartial in your view of the team as indicated by your name. We did not lose a starting CB, our starting CBs are Darby, Gilmore and Robey. We cut loose 2 players who are better suited to play in a 4-3 defense and had bad years last year. Please explain how a draft that is deep in D-line talent and has some pretty good linebackers in the early rounds will leave us with a "wash." We now have 5 picks in the first 4 rounds, I'd be shocked if we aren't a better team next year than this past year.

[jletha]

No i think we will be worst then last season and i expect both Whaley (made a mess of our cap) and Rex to be fired after the season. This team has lost way more then they have added.

Hogan? Brooks? Bradham? Were these guys difference makers last year? No. Signing Richie to a team friendly deal, tagging Glenn were good moves. When the dust settles we will add affordable players. All of our playmakers are still here.

[John from Riverside]

Oh no, you misunderstand. Clearly that was the plan. The team, however, was not supposed to be coming into '16 in need of a defensive overhaul. That's where the change in narrative applies. You're saying it was supposed to take 2 offseasons as a process. Since when? Since when was the plan "two years of Rex, overhauling the defense and drafting for his system" to make the playoffs?

 

It wasn't. Not until 2015 got into full-swing. Hell, part of the reason the Pegulas wanted Rex hired was because he was veteran head coach who would hit the ground running and not have any rookie growing pains. To pretend that wasn't the "plan," is just disingenuous. The plan was spend in '15, be successful due to the massive dollars thrown around, then keep the roster together as much as possible in '16. You are glossing over the most important part of the plan. It having on the field success.

 

Who is Bradham's replacement on the roster as starting LB? Who is McK's as a good #3 CB who can play outside? I'll leave Mario alone, because that issue is not as cut-and-dried as the rest, and no one wants to go down that rabbit hole.

 

I'd argue that the vision of the team was to win in 2015. The disappointment of that season was proof positive that the Doug Whaley plan has not worked (yet). Now, we may bounce back. We may not. But I won't concede that Doug Whaley's main goal wasn't to make the playoffs in 2015 and he spent accordingly.

 

Fair point on stacking the deck before UFA and the draft though. These are more my fears than anything, that the '16 team will be worse off, talent-wise than '15. That's how it appears to be going. For all we know, Whaley will find a 5th round All-Pro LB and all will be well.

 

Go Bills.

I guess my most immediate question is....how much of a overhaul do you think it needs?

[Virgil]

 

Well obviously you are a super impartial in your view of the team as indicated by your name. We did not lose a starting CB, our starting CBs are Darby, Gilmore and Robey. We cut loose 2 players who are better suited to play in a 4-3 defense and had bad years last year. Please explain how a draft that is deep in D-line talent and has some pretty good linebackers in the early rounds will leave us with a "wash." We now have 5 picks in the first 4 rounds, I'd be shocked if we aren't a better team next year than this past year.

Law of a averages. Most teams would consider 2-3 impact starters a success from a draft. But that's not every time and I'm giving us the benefit of the doubt based off the last few years.

 

McKelvin was our #3. Even if you want to debate that, this is a league where 4 WR sets are more and more common. He was on the field a lot last year and needs to be replaced.

 

And yes, it's a deep D-Line draft. So, if we replace Mario, get a LB, and a RT with 1-3, we still need to get those other positions filled.

 

Plus, the goal is to be better. Our LB's were terrible last year. And I mean, terrible. We don't really know about Aaron Williams. We don't know if Woods was having an off year. We don't have a #3 WR. So, there are more holes to fill than most people find success with in a draft and 2nd/3rd tier FA's.

 

That, and the goal is to improve from year to year.

 

Now, what that has to do with my belief that Rex is a used car salesman type coach who hasn't proven anything in the past 5 years and should be arrested for interview fraud, I have no idea. Or should I equally assume that you are drunk and have no idea what you are saying by your screen name?

Edited March 11, 2016 by FireRex

[John from Riverside]

 

The bolded is incorrect. As last off season was unfolding Whaley made it very clear what the plan was: reload the offense in 2015, resign our own in 2016. That's not changing the narrative, that's listening to it. There are plenty of sources that back this up. I'm not saying just because there's a plan it's good, I'm saying the plan is good. The plan was to rebuild an offense which had been woeful while leaving enough room cap wise to resign what Whaley believes to be the core of the team moving forward. They ABSOLUTELY expected / wanted to make the playoffs last year and were expecting Rex to maintain the defense at the very least while the offense gelled. The later didn't happen -- which falls on Rex more than it does on Whaley.

 

Whaley's vision with the roster is sound. The talent on the roster has improved each year he's been in charge, it's hard to argue otherwise. I would quibble with the idea that we're losing "role players left and right" -- by definition role players can be found anywhere (on the team already, bargain bin UFAs, and of course the draft). I like Leo and Bradham more than most but their replacements are on the roster or will be found early in the draft. Ditto with Mario who, I think you would agree, while talented didn't make the team better in 2015.

 

2015 was a disappointment, but that doesn't mean the overall vision for where the team is going is flawed. Right now they've locked up (or are in the process of locking up) the core talent on the team with plenty of room to finish the job (and add pieces) next off season. Judging the roster before UFA or the draft has concluded is kind of stacking the deck.

IMO the thing that was the dissapointment was that defensive players didnt pick up the scheme quickly

 

We all assumed that because we had a top 5 defense in the previous year that we also had extremely smart and versiltle players as well on D.......certain players did not buy into RR scheme....others took a while to get it down....still others got hurt.

 

If the D was just a LITTLE BIT better....we are in the playoffs.

 

I think RR is going to be looking for specific players to run his D this year....and it will be better...I dont know how much better...that is my only concern.

Law of a averages. Most teams would consider 2-3 impact starters a success from a draft. But that's not every time and I'm giving us the benefit of the doubt based off the last few years.

 

McKelvin was our #3. Even if you want to debate that, this is a league where 4 WR sets are more and more common. He was on the field a lot last year and needs to be replaced.

 

And yes, it's a deep D-Line draft. So, if we replace Mario, get a LB, and a RT with 1-3, we still need to get those other positions filled.

 

Plus, the goal is to be better. Our LB's were terrible last year. And I mean, terrible. We don't really know about Aaron Williams. We don't know if Woods was having an off year. We don't have a #3 WR. So, there are more holes to fill than most people find success with in a draft and 2nd/3rd tier FA's.

 

That, and the goal is to improve from year to year.

 

Now, what that has to do with my belief that Rex is a used car salesman type coach who hasn't proven anything in the past 5 years and should be arrested for interview fraud, I have no idea. Or should I equally assume that you are drunk and have no idea what you are saying by your screen name?

McKelvin was moved to SAFETY

 

I might be in the miniority.....but I believe that when you start looking at the 3rd best at a position this is where you find those guys that have a lot of potential but need to be coached up.....for instance...I think Mario Butler has shown more then Ron Brooks every did.....and I really like him as the number 3 on this team......we have 2 legit starters.....and Butler who comes and covers the 3rd reciever...that works for me.

[John from Riverside]

McKelvin was moved to safety?

Pretty sure he was

[FireChan]

I guess my most immediate question is....how much of a overhaul do you think it needs?

Quite a bit. NT, DE, 2 LB's, S, backup CB and depth for everyone else.

Pretty sure he was

He got some snaps at S, but I think he played CB when Gilmore was out.

[Virgil]

Pretty sure he was

I think that was the idea at the beginning of the season, but then injuries happened and he made quite a few starts at CB. I only know because I remember seeing flashes of brilliance from him again.

[ndirish1978]

Now, what that has to do with my belief that Rex is a used car salesman type coach who hasn't proven anything in the past 5 years and should be arrested for interview fraud, I have no idea. Or should I equally assume that you are drunk and have no idea what you are saying by your screen name?

 

Well, my screename is an indication that I went to Notre Dame, so it's slightly less arbitrary than yours, but that's neither here nor there. You're also not really looking at the fact that we're switching to a 3-4, which means we need a NT more than we need a replacement for Mario. We desperately need a sideline to sideline ILB to pair with Brown, who seemed lost last year. We can pick up a NT in the 3rd or 4th round in this draft. You really don't think we can fill need at LB and maybe find an upgrade at RT in the first 2 rounds of the draft? By your own admission the rest of what we require is depth.

Edited March 11, 2016 by ndirish1978

[3rdand12]

McKelvin was moved to safety?

yep he sure was

 

the whole hybrid thing of course

Quite a bit. NT, DE, 2 LB's, S, backup CB and depth for everyone else.

He got some snaps at S, but I think he played CB when Gilmore was out.

Brooks stepped in at firs. something i shuddered at

I think that was the idea at the beginning of the season, but then injuries happened and he made quite a few starts at CB. I only know because I remember seeing flashes of brilliance from him again.

i suspect you are being sarcastic, but he did get his feet under him and made plays.

Edited March 11, 2016 by 3rdand12

[papazoid]

needs: #1RT, #1RG, #2QB, #2WR, #2TE, #1NT, #2DE, #1LB, #2LB, #3CB,

[3rdand12]

needs: #1RT, #1RG, #2QB, #2WR, #2TE, #1NT, #2DE, #1LB, #2LB, #3CB,

kind demanding aren't you ?

[Captain_Quint]

I bet we win the division this year.

[3rdand12]

I bet we win the division this year.

because, you are being counter intuitive?

[papazoid]

I bet we win the division this year.

 

 

easy now.....a little early to overdose on koolaid

[YattaOkasan]

needs: #1RT, #1RG, #2QB, #2WR, #2TE, #1NT, #2DE, #1LB, #2LB, #3CB,

At least 4 of these are probably done whether you like it or not.

EJ (no one will trade and his cap counts no matter what)

Miller (2nd year and they cut Urbik)

Woods

Robey (unless you call the slot CB something else)

 

Am I missing something?

[Deranged Rhino]

 

 

easy now.....a little early to overdose on koolaid

 

If you can't dream in March, when can you dream?

[Nihilarian]

needs: #1RT, #1RG, #2QB, #2WR, #2TE, #1NT, #2DE, #1LB, #2LB, #3CB,

It goes more like have to haves and all look to be on the defensive side due to scheme changes.

 

Starters

NT

DE

LB

LB

WR

 

Backups

WR

OG

OC

CB

 

To the fans that think losing Hogan to the Patriots is nothing. I remember the guy making first downs and stepping up in some games. Losing him hurts the team. Hogan played in 83% of the snap counts in that last game against the Jets. He was the leading Bills WR in that 2nd game against the Patriots and against the Titans, Giants. Looks to me like he was the #3 WR on the team and was the #2 WR in that last game against the Jets.

 

Also talking about that last Jets game and some notes

 

McKelvin made 5 tackles and 1 INT in that last game against the Jets. He was also in 95% of the defensive snap counts and 4% of ST snaps. Starting CB against the Jets

 

Rambo played in 82% of the snaps, 2 tackles, one assist. One of my favorite players. starting S against the Jets

 

Mario played in 100% of the defensive snaps 1 sacks, 2 tackles. Only one other Bills player was in on 100% of the defensive snaps and that was Lawson.

 

 

The Bills will need to find at least two starters in this years draft and hopefully more.

[4merper4mer]

If you can't dream in March, when can you dream?

Do nightmares count?

[JohnnyK]

To answer the question: Will the roster be better? The answer is no!

To answer the question of why might the Bills be better is:

+TT coming in as the starter, more 1st team rep.s

+a healthy Watkins and McCoy would be a huge bonus for offence

+year two with new coaches

 

PS and maybe Rex can get a challenge correct for once

 

PPS ST. Doug not here to punt from other teams 38 yardline

[MattM]

To answer the question: Will the roster be better? The answer is no!

To answer the question of why might the Bills be better is:

+TT coming in as the starter, more 1st team rep.s

+a healthy Watkins and McCoy would be a huge bonus for offence

+year two with new coaches

 

PS and maybe Rex can get a challenge correct for once

 

PPS ST. Doug not here to punt from other teams 38 yardline

You're also forgetting a hopefully big 2d year step up from guys like Darby (to truly elite level), Miller, K. Williams and O'Leary.

That plus familiarity with the schemes and, as you note, TT having more experience, are the reasons for potential optimism.

 

That said, they need to pick up several (2-3) starters in this draft to fill big needs at RT, DE and LB. Personally, I'd

like to see them take a DE or edge rushing LB in the 1st, RT in the second, LB in the third and BPA thereafter to fill depth at WR, S, CB and DL. Those comp picks may help there.

 

It would be great if we could fill at least one hole in FA, but absent the long-term signing of G or G, I don't see it.

Edited March 12, 2016 by MattM

[Nervous Guy]

Lets ask gunnerbill.

[Dorkington]

Do we still have Steward and Powell? Maybe the coaches are high on them... Also, Wynn?

 

Hopefully getting Aaron and Kyle back... Then use our draft for a starting DE, and maybe LB?

 

I'm trying to talk myself into believing