machine gun kelly Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Fred wasn't himself last season anyway after he ripped his groin. His durability is shot despite being one tough SOB. He wasn't worth keeping around as a 3rd string RB who didn't play ST. I wish him the best this postseason. Your critical point was ST. If Fred could have played ST, I would have preferred him over Dixon just for the leadership role on the team. But, it was a smart move in the end, and both Karlos, and Gilleslie are excellent depth behind McCoy. I never want to see dixon outside of ST, but your 4th RB like your 6th WR are ST guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I like the way Karlos runs, but I'm a little concerned about him. He may have a short career because of recurring concussions. Fred is a great blocker and outlet receiver. I don't know if Karlos fills that role. McCoy may be better in those situations. I'm not bitter about releasing Fred, I think it was a logical business decision based on his salary and limited role primarily as a third down back. I wish he could still be on the Bills, and I'm glad he was picked up by another team. I hope he get to make some plays in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM57 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 It was a stupid move. Glad Fred gets to go to the playoffs, but I have yet to hear a coherent argument explaining why he wasn't worth a roster spot. Not reading the rest of the thread before this reply. Here we go, it's very simple. Karlos Williams beat him out for the the #2 role behind McCoy. Just about every NFL team expects to get Special Teams value out of their #3 RB, whether that be as a returner or a gunner. Fred Jackson did not play special teams. Boobie Dixon, while not as good at RB, does play special teams, and does so at a decent level. Therefore, he had more value to the team. Fred may not have even dressed if they kept him, again going back to not playing special teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I was never bitter about the Bills releasing Fred. I loved him as a player for the team but it was time to move on. The thing that annoyed me was the Pegulas forcing Whaley to keep Fred after Whaley had cut him last spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 After i heard of the release i was upset, but it seems they made the correct choice. Carlos has had a nice season despite injury. Maybe they could have kept Fred as #3, but he wouldnt go for it. We could have used him no doubt, but i like the youth and Gillesea looks like a keeper. Yes, he should not have been let go the way he was. It will be great day when he is placed on the ring of honor at the Ralph. Nonetheless, glad that Freddie will get to do something he never would have here: play a play-off game, maybe even a super bowl. And I am excited about the prospects of the Bills backfield next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I agree Boobie over Fred made no sense. Herron over Fred maked no sense either. But turning the page our stable of backs looks great for 2016. I really hope Karlos is able to avoid concussion related problems that could threaten his career. IMO he is a gem with a higher ceiling than given credit for. I first thought of him as a good change of pace north south one cut and go kinda guy. I think he is more than that. He has really good vision and can cut sharply more than once a carry. Plus of course he is a load and fast enuf to turn the corner as well as run inside. I love seeing DBs and LBs shy away from that big train comin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamSandwhich Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I like Gilislee a ton. I was pissed about Fred but we're deeper than ever Is it just me or does he remind you of a young Fredex? I think his running style is very similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 It's interesting to me how the Whaley faithful glaze over the leadership aspect as if it has no more value on Sunday than it does in Madden. On a team like the Patriots his leadership value would be minimal. But on a team like the Bills who have a dearth of leadership, especially on the offensive side of the ball, it could be extremely valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Not reading the rest of the thread before this reply. Here we go, it's very simple. Karlos Williams beat him out for the the #2 role behind McCoy. Just about every NFL team expects to get Special Teams value out of their #3 RB, whether that be as a returner or a gunner. Fred Jackson did not play special teams. Boobie Dixon, while not as good at RB, does play special teams, and does so at a decent level. Therefore, he had more value to the team. Fred may not have even dressed if they kept him, again going back to not playing special teams. Winner winner chicken dinner. There is some good and interesting discussion in this thread but this is what happened note for note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Never was bitter. I completely understood at the time that they were going with younger guys. Didn't need to see Karlos to understand why they did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Fred became a legend here because he was the only thing of any consistency over close to the past ten years. But the main reason for his consistency was the rest of the team was so bad so long. If guys like A Smith, and Lynch had stuck around, and Spiller had played like the level he was drafted at; it's highly likely there never would have been much of a Fred Jackson career in Buffalo. Fred kind of became the martyr of the cause, the cause being the lousy years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Fred was'nt good just because he played for a lousy team. Fred would have stood out on lots of teams, especially better one's I would think where Ds wouldn't have keyed on him as much. In the year he broke his leg, he was pretty much top three or so of all purpose backs in the league. Heck of a player. Did everything well. Wishing him well in theplayoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) After i heard of the release i was upset, but it seems they made the correct choice. Carlos has had a nice season despite injury. Maybe they could have kept Fred as #3, but he wouldnt go for it. We could have used him no doubt, but i like the youth and Gillesea looks like a keeper. At the time of the cut, it made sense, because of Karlos, Shady, Roman wanting to keep a FB Felton noted for his blocking and pass protection skills, and Roman wanting to keep what was it, 4 TE we started the season with (Clay, Gray, Mulligan, Gragg) and Dixon for ST. In hindsight, the release of FredEx was a mistake when we cut Bryce Brown after the 1st game, Karlos and Shady both went down, and we were scraping guys off the street. (The timing of the Bryce Brown release still puzzles me mightily - if he wasn't taking coaching and making the changes you want to see, why not cut him much sooner?). Mulligan and Felton did not work out as well for blockers as they hoped, and none of the vets filled Fred's leadership role. It has worked out very well for FredEx though so I'm happy for him, and the problem is GMs have to make decisions as they see them at the time, not in hindsight. There were several issues this season (penalties, lack of mental concentration, etc) that didn't crop up last year. With this year's talent, I have to think that a veteran leader would have been worth 1-2 additional wins. The thing is, the plan (at the time of the cut) called for McCoy, Karlos, Felton, and Dixon (for ST) to be game-day actives. If kept instead of Brown, FredEx would have had to be a healthy scratch, which would be hard for him, and also limit his leadership role. There's kind of an unwritten limit to the leadership a player in street clothes can provide - he can be a good cheerleader and spirit lifter but he can't exhort or call guys out. Edited January 1, 2016 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 It was a stupid move. Glad Fred gets to go to the playoffs, but I have yet to hear a coherent argument explaining why he wasn't worth a roster spot. You've heard several coherent arguments explaining this, actually. You're just apparently unable or unwilling to process them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 A bit off topic, but ... wouldn't Karlos be a total beast as a safety? I read some of the FSU media when we drafted him, and it seems that he just couldn't get the concept of coverage packages and where he was supposed to be. Physically, I see a Kam Chancellor v. 2.0. As a RB? I'm still worried (as are the Bills it seems) that he won't ever be up to a full workload given his running style and size. I'm not saying we should switch him back to safety; I'm just saying that I think he might have had a shot at a better NFL career if he had stayed there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 It was time for a change so I wasnt upset at all and pleasantly surprised how well Karlos played- I am concerned with his durability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsmystic Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Good teams release older players before their skills decline below their value. Fred was awesome, but being bitter about his release is silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 You've heard several coherent arguments explaining this, actually. You're just apparently unable or unwilling to process them. I haven't. The best I've heard is this garbage about special teams. Dropping your 3rd down RB and locker room leader, on a team that desperately needs both, so you can save that roster spot for a special teamer is patently absurd. Especially considering his combination of blocking and receiving ability when you've got a pourous O-line and inexperienced QBs. I hear no coherent arguments. I hear Whaley fanboy excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) I haven't. The best I've heard is this garbage about special teams. Dropping your 3rd down RB and locker room leader, on a team that desperately needs both, so you can save that roster spot for a special teamer is patently absurd. Especially considering his combination of blocking and receiving ability when you've got a pourous O-line and inexperienced QBs. I hear no coherent arguments. I hear Whaley fanboy excuses. The same porous OL has the team as the NFL's rushing leader. The same porous OL that has allowed for the deep passing game to succeed. Try again! Edited January 2, 2016 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 The same porous OL has has the team as the NFL's rushing leader. The same porous OL that has allowed for the deep passing game to succeed. Try again! How does competent run blocking equate to good pass blocking? And how many 300 yd passers did we have this year? Try again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Punt catcher. Moore, McKelvin, and Thigpen didn't do much in the return game other than fumble at critical times. Goodbye Danny Crossman. I asked this before but maybe I missed the answer. Did FredEx ever receive punts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I asked this before but maybe I missed the answer. Did FredEx ever receive punts? He did under Marrone IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I haven't. The best I've heard is this garbage about special teams. Dropping your 3rd down RB and locker room leader, on a team that desperately needs both, so you can save that roster spot for a special teamer is patently absurd. Especially considering his combination of blocking and receiving ability when you've got a pourous O-line and inexperienced QBs. I hear no coherent arguments. I hear Whaley fanboy excuses. Yeah, our STs stunk even with arguably one of the best gunners in the league so somehow I tend to doubt that Boobie was anything of a difference maker in that regard. I think everyone agrees he couldnt hold Fred's jock as a running back. And with respect to age, STs is where you want a younger player who can work on being a useful backup and maybe someday a starter, not exactly something you could hope for from Boobie. Seems like more a Doug Whaley defence argument than a football one. With respect to Gillislee, who I think is a good find, I wonder if he could be serviceable as a return man for kickoffs and maybe for punts. He has excellent vision and a decent burst even if not a real burner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Good teams release older players before their skills decline below their value. Fred was awesome, but being bitter about his release is silly You do realize that he is playing for the two time defending NFC champions........right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I asked this before but maybe I missed the answer. Did FredEx ever receive punts? Lots. Fred's stat line: Returns 16 Yardage 190 Average 11.9. You need 75 returns to qualify for NFL career stats, but to put Fred's PR skills into perspective, the 11.9 average would put Fred 8th all-time with Desmond Howard, and .3 yards better than 'scoe's 11.6 in 11th place all-time. For those who keep saying that Fred wouldn't play ST, I call bullshyte. Fred said before he left that he would have done ANYTHING to remain with Buffalo. Fred excelled at anything he ever did on a football field. He could have played ST as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) Bills fans that can't spell Bills players names bothers me. Especially, confusing Wood and Woods. Edited January 1, 2016 by Manther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Bills fans that can't spell Bills players names bothers me. Especially, confusing Wood and Woods. You must be a Tavares Jackson fan. Or maybe Jarius Byrd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Bills fans that can't spell Bills players names bothers me. Especially, confusing Wood and Woods. one means part of a tree, and the latter means a forest. its simple. how do you feel about punctuation ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobu Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 No. Was not bitter to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Fred- I hope you make it. The Cardinals should win tomorrow in AZ, will play for the win as TB could pull the upset and beat the Panthers and the Cards have a better conference record. Also, Atlanta wins tomorrow, then Seattle is out. I can't believe it, but Seattle could get knocked out as unlikely as it sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talley56 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 What I still don't like about it was the fact that, at the time, they decided to keep Bryce Brown over FJ just because he was younger. Brown was awful and should have been cut long before Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 What I still don't like about it was the fact that, at the time, they decided to keep Bryce Brown over FJ just because he was younger. Brown was awful and should have been cut long before Jackson. They released Fred when they did more as a favor to him so he would have time to hook on with another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 You've heard several coherent arguments explaining this, actually. You're just apparently unable or unwilling to process them. I haven't. The best I've heard is this garbage about special teams. Dropping your 3rd down RB and locker room leader, on a team that desperately needs both, so you can save that roster spot for a special teamer is patently absurd. Especially considering his combination of blocking and receiving ability when you've got a pourous O-line and inexperienced QBs. I hear no coherent arguments. I hear Whaley fanboy excuses. LOL. That pretty much illustrates my point: you're unable or unwilling to process them. Whenever someone lays out a series of reasons, someone who is able and willing to process can argue for or against. Someone who isn't able to do so pulls out a straw man or a stalking horse - referring to them as "Whaley fanboy excuses" is an example of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Didn't care then, don't care now. This. Sorry, Fred Jackson wasn't going to prevent countless injuries, make guys absorb Rex's defensive philosophy faster, make Tyrod more decisive throwing the ball, make Percy Harvin want to play football, or any of the other things that caused this team to fail this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsInMaine Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I like Gilislee a ton. I was pissed about Fred but we're deeper than ever I miss Freddy's leadership. Its what this team lacked the most this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) They released Fred when they did more as a favor to him so he would have time to hook on with another team. .........because they didn't think he was good enough to help them. The "cut as a favor" takes are pretty weak when not put into that context..........otherwise, why not cut Sammy Watkins so he can go play with a great QB? It's just a convenient excuse that sounds nice and defers blame. The Seahawks of the last 4 seasons are one of the more successful teams in NFL history over such a span.........they just had a streak snapped of 64 straight games where they held a lead in EVERY game.......and they found Jackson valuable enough to play about 25% of their offensive snaps. The Bills organization, meanwhile, is just completing it's 16th straight "learning experience" of a season. The Bills made a lot of mistakes in 2015........too many to be successful........and this is just one of them. Denying it is Edited January 1, 2016 by #BADOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 LOL. That pretty much illustrates my point: you're unable or unwilling to process them. Whenever someone lays out a series of reasons, someone who is able and willing to process can argue for or against. Someone who isn't able to do so pulls out a straw man or a stalking horse - referring to them as "Whaley fanboy excuses" is an example of both. Apparently you don't know what a straw man is. And I've addressed the arguments and explained logically why they don't make sense. Then I identified them as the desperate excuses of Whaley fanboys because I can think of no other reason why someone would cling to such a flimsy argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talley56 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 They released Fred when they did more as a favor to him so he would have time to hook on with another team. How would he have run out of time to look for another team? They released Brown after him and he had plenty of time to be signed by another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 How would he have run out of time to look for another team? They released Brown after him and he had plenty of time to be signed by another team. Who said he would have run out of time? I said they released him earlier so he's have more time to hook on with a new team before the season started. Whaley himself said this after the release occurred. None of this is in dispute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 No, but I'm bitter over fredex after watching boobie. They didn't trust him enough to make him the 3rd RB. Fred would have been a better use of a roster spot, and provided more leadership. Screw whaley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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