NOVABillsFan Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Viable in that it would have kept the rookie QB on the bench and given him time to develop and it would have saved the Bills fans the experience with the semi retired Orton as QB. Fitz will play for a few more years, Orton was a one and done in my opinion. Yes and most on this board forget the record TT broke on QB run yards was Fritzpatrick; the problem was the front office offering too large of contract too soon and falling for those unpunished bozos phone stunt. If he had not been so embarrassed and contract smaller he could have held the QB position while new QB got spun up out rather having QBs thrown to the wolves. No he is NOT perfect but he is better than some starting QBs playing now and Jets got lucky with IK punch. Fritzpatrick is a player with lots of heart. Just the notion that Fitz held that record is scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) Brandon Marshall also makes QBs better. I know that hasn't been a popular opinion, but look at Cutler and now Fitzy with or without him. Edited October 20, 2015 by The Frankish Reich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Brandon Marshall also makes QBs better. I know that hasn't been a popular opinion, but look at Cutler and now Fitzy with or without him. Â Made some amazing catches so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Well, he definitely would have rushed the passer better. Â Â Serious question: in 2011, Ryan Fitzpatrick signed his 6 year/$59 million contract extension which would take him through the 2016 season as the Bills starter. Since then, we've been through Fitz, EJ, Kyle Orton, Tyrod Taylor ... and maybe EJ again for a while. What if we'd just let that contract play out? Would we be better or worse off right now? I'm going to have to say better off, since a whole cascade of other events likely wouldn't have happened: drafting EJ, making the Sammy Watkins trade, bringing in Rex Ryan, getting stuck for several years with guaranteed Fitzy dead money that could have been applied to other needs. Â Easy to dismiss the question with an eye roll emoji, but seriously: what's the argument for exactly how we're better off now -- and maybe more importantly, in 2017 and on -- than we would have been if we'd just let that contract play out? Remember, Fitzy and the Texans beat us last year, and Fitzy's Jets are 4-1 this year. No, he hasn't gone to the playoffs, but unless I missed it, neither have the Bills ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagon Circler Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Now here is a post I never expected to see! How quickly they forget all the 4th quarter int's with the game on the line. I think we all liked Fitz. But he stinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I hope Fitzy waits one more week to revert to his normal form  We need one of those "Good Fitz" games this week. I'll gladly deal with his fans rubbing our faces in it, because the other shoe always drops with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Isn't is a bit premature to say that? And besides, what would have stopped them from signing a Tyrod to compete? Â Until i see 3 or 5 come around the corner and up end a linebacker i give the nid to 14. That dude was too stupid to know what he couldnt do... I LOVED EVERY MOMENT.except the last niners game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I said when he left there would be a day we wish we still had him. Sounded funny then not so much now. No qb has been better since he left. If he were the starter last year it would have ended in playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 No! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Ammendment NoMas Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 If Rex didn't tinker and F'k this defense up, we would be 4-2 or 5-1 and feeling like contenders. I'd rather have Tyrod than Fitz. Sammy will shine if he takes off his glass slippers and if we can get Shady and Karlos healthy our run game can be stout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enlightener Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Â Because Ryan Fitzpatrick is a losing QB as an NFL starter. He's just not good enough and that's the reason why he's now on his SEVENTH NFL team. great logic, so seven teams paid him to be a starter over all those wanna be rookies and veterans?? its called being the 20-32 best qb in the league who starts when a team admits they blew it on their draft pick the year before. Trent edwards...geno smith etc. 7 teams means the first team screwed up letting fitz go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 great logic, so seven teams paid him to be a starter over all those wanna be rookies and veterans?? its called being the 20-32 best qb in the league who starts when a team admits they blew it on their draft pick the year before. Trent edwards...geno smith etc. 7 teams means the first team screwed up letting fitz go. Â No! Just the opposite. It means they quickly realized just how bad he is upon closer inspection. enlightener huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Fitz is starting because the Jets have to use him over Geno. How quickly we forget how he couldn't throw accurately beyond 10-15 yards, forced the ball, had INTS, and once the defenses figured out Chan they played press against our WR and they never got open. Â He will show himself this year once coaches know how defend against he and Chan. I'm very happy with our decision, and we made some mistakes with not picking Carr, or Wilson, but so did a lot of other teams who need a QB. Â Dropping Fitz was not a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Fitzpatrick is 99% likely to never be the starting QB of a perennial playoff winning team. His many years and opportunities in the league make that pretty much clear. Â Taylor probably isn't either because he probably doesn't have the right combination of talent and durability. But he might. As a fan I would rather the Bills try the guy who "might" be the answer vs. a guy who almost certainly isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Fitz is starting because the Jets have to use him over Geno. How quickly we forget how he couldn't throw accurately beyond 10-15 yards, forced the ball, had INTS, and once the defenses figured out Chan they played press against our WR and they never got open. Â He will show himself this year once coaches know how defend against he and Chan. I'm very happy with our decision, and we made some mistakes with not picking Carr, or Wilson, but so did a lot of other teams who need a QB. Â Dropping Fitz was not a mistake. If you keep Fitzy, you don't draft EJ. And maybe you flub that draft anyway -- St Louis picked Tavon Austin with the pick we traded down from to take EJ. But then again, Tyler Eifert was on the board when we picked EJ, and we kind of needed a tight end in 2013. Which means you don't need an expensive free agent tight end in 2015, and you use that money elsewhere. And then in 2014, maybe you don't panic about EJ needing a playmaker receiver to "get to the next level," and you don't trade up for Sammy. And again, maybe you flub that draft anyway, but maybe not ... maybe you stand pat with your 9th overall pick and take the best receiver left on the board, who turns out to be OBJ. I know, lots of speculation. But still, my real question is this: has all the frenetic activity since we moved on from Fitzy actually made the team better now? Better positioned to compete in 2016-17 and beyond? Because I'm not seeing it. Again, "never confuse activity with achievement." Fitzpatrick is 99% likely to never be the starting QB of a perennial playoff winning team. His many years and opportunities in the league make that pretty much clear. Â Taylor probably isn't either because he probably doesn't have the right combination of talent and durability. But he might. As a fan I would rather the Bills try the guy who "might" be the answer vs. a guy who almost certainly isn't. Why are these things mutually exclusive? You keep the QB you gave the big contract to rather than paying him to play for someone else (including the Texans, who knocked you out of playoff competition last year), then you sign a cheapo free agent to backup or compete for the job (Tyrod, which is exactly what happened with him this year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 It's amazing how much some fans elevate their opinion of Bills players once they are no longer here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOVABillsFan Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 It's amazing how much some fans elevate their opinion of Bills players once they are no longer here. Or deride them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 It's amazing how much some fans elevate their opinion of Bills players once they are no longer here. I am not "elevating my opinion" of him. He's mediocre. So are the Bills now. The question isn't "would we be a perennial playoff team" with Fitzy, it's would we be better off, all things considered, having let him play out his contract than we are today. It's amazing how much some fans elevate their opinion of EJ Manuel after one good start (early 2013), or Kyle Orton after a couple good starts (2014), or Tyrod Taylor after a couple good starts and a couple bad ones and a predictable injury (2015) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taterthegator Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Why bring this up? Watch the game this Sunday against NE. Fitzpatrick will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory this weekend. The Jets will have a shot at the upset and he will screw it up with 3 and outs or an ill advised pick. Â Enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Serious question: in 2011, Ryan Fitzpatrick signed his 6 year/$59 million contract extension which would take him through the 2016 season as the Bills starter. Since then, we've been through Fitz, EJ, Kyle Orton, Tyrod Taylor ... and maybe EJ again for a while. What if we'd just let that contract play out? Would we be better or worse off right now? I'm going to have to say better off, since a whole cascade of other events likely wouldn't have happened: drafting EJ, making the Sammy Watkins trade, bringing in Rex Ryan, getting stuck for several years with guaranteed Fitzy dead money that could have been applied to other needs. Â Easy to dismiss the question with an eye roll emoji, but seriously: what's the argument for exactly how we're better off now -- and maybe more importantly, in 2017 and on -- than we would have been if we'd just let that contract play out? Remember, Fitzy and the Texans beat us last year, and Fitzy's Jets are 4-1 this year. No, he hasn't gone to the playoffs, but unless I missed it, neither have the Bills ... Fitz started out really good and in 2011. He fizzed out and so did the Bills... Prediction: He will fizz out in 2015 as well. He cannot play 16 games/year. He is NOT a Starting QB. Thinking anything more than that is borderline psychotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) Fitz started out really good and in 2011. He fizzed out and so did the Bills... Prediction: He will fizz out in 2015 as well. He cannot play 16 games/year. He is NOT a Starting QB. Thinking anything more than that is borderline psychotic. Correct. He is, like everyone else we've brought in here, no better than the 32nd or 33rd best quarterback in the world, in a league with 32 starters. He is Josh McCown. Or Luke McCown. Or Brian Hoyer. Or Kyle Orton. Or Tarvaris Jackson. Or Matt Cassel. Or Tyrod Taylor? Why bring this up? Watch the game this Sunday against NE. Fitzpatrick will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory this weekend. The Jets will have a shot at the upset and he will screw it up with 3 and outs or an ill advised pick. Â Enough. "Having a shot" is, if I remember correctly, somewhat better than how Tyrod and the Bills fared vs. NE ... Edited October 21, 2015 by The Frankish Reich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 This thread is going to get bumped a LOT later in the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 This thread is going to get bumped a LOT later in the season Key to the reason I asked the question is this: dumping Fitzy and drafting EJ was a panic decision, and it took Whaley and Co. only one year to realize the mistake that drafting EJ was -- that's why Kyle Orton was dragged in, and why Matt Cassel and TT were brought in this year (and why Whaley referred to being in "QB Purgatory", a not so veiled slap at his own one-time "franchise QB" first rounder). And if they hadn't panicked, and simply waited a year? Well, I'd feel better with Derek Carr or Teddy Bridgewater ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Key to the reason I asked the question is this: dumping Fitzy and drafting EJ was a panic decision, and it took Whaley and Co. only one year to realize the mistake that drafting EJ was -- that's why Kyle Orton was dragged in, and why Matt Cassel and TT were brought in this year (and why Whaley referred to being in "QB Purgatory", a not so veiled slap at his own one-time "franchise QB" first rounder). And if they hadn't panicked, and simply waited a year? Well, I'd feel better with Derek Carr or Teddy Bridgewater ... Â He did not describe it as "QB Purgatory" - use the full quote or none at all. Some of the media used part of quote as buzzword which is why every other phrase when talking with that media member should be "Moron media member" and let other papers pick that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Correct. He is, like everyone else we've brought in here, no better than the 32nd or 33rd best quarterback in the world, in a league with 32 starters. He is Josh McCown. Or Luke McCown. Or Brian Hoyer. Or Kyle Orton. Or Tarvaris Jackson. Or Matt Cassel. Or Tyrod Taylor? Â "Having a shot" is, if I remember correctly, somewhat better than how Tyrod and the Bills fared vs. NE ... Tyrod had a shot at the end of the game to drive for a potentially tying TD/2pt conversion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) I'm going to have to say better off, since a whole cascade of other events likely wouldn't have happened: drafting EJ, making the Sammy Watkins trade, bringing in Rex Ryan, getting stuck for several years with guaranteed Fitzy dead money that could have been applied to other needs. Why wouldn't they have made the Watkins trade? They still needed a play making WR so I don't see how Fitz at QB would hv changed that. Why wouldn't they hv hired Rex? Â They carried dead money from Fitz for two years and it didn't prevent them from doing anything so this point is a non issue. Â What does Houston with Fitz at QB beating Buffalo last year have to do with anything? Edited October 22, 2015 by Max997 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 THIS is what I was going to say! It is amazing the conversations we Bills fans get into all stemming from one simple fact: we haven't really had a stud QB on this team since Jim Kelly. Â the sad truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 This thread is going to get bumped a LOT later in the season Right on cue ... here's the first of many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Yes, He's better than EJM. I think he'd be the backup to Tyrod , and could see the Bills winning today with Fitz. Cassel, no but Fitz yes , they would have won vs Jax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 i'd rather have Taylor, Manuel and Fitz on this team then any other opportunity we could have had in the last so many years. It'd have saved us from the Orton experience and waste, as well as the Thad Lewis, Jeff Tuel, EJ Manuel thrown to the wolves time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) We'd likely be in the same exact spot we are now. The Jets are playing better defense, and they seem to have better O Line and WR play. Marshall has looked better than any of our receivers this year. QB is so crucial in this league, but when you don't have one, everyone else needs to step up. We haven't done that this year, while the Jets have. Edited October 25, 2015 by DriveFor1Outta5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 i'd rather have Taylor, Manuel and Fitz on this team then any other opportunity we could have had in the last so many years. It'd have saved us from the Orton experience and waste, as well as the Thad Lewis, Jeff Tuel, EJ Manuel thrown to the wolves time. It's not just about Fitzy -- it's about how the Jets have built their team vs. how the Bills have built theirs. Â Jets: priorities were old fashioned. Bring in offensive lineman from Seattle last year and again this year. Build an old fashioned power running game around Ivory. When you feel that you're offense is missing a big receiver, go get a geniune big receiver in Brandon Marshall rather than trading up for a fairly ordinary sized receiver like Sammy Watkins. And after our respective QB debacles of the last couple years, they go the standard route in bring in the time-tested albeit mediocre veteran (which is what we did last year, and almost this year with Cassel). We'll see who wins, but right now, things are looking better in NYC than they are in Buffalo. We'd likely be in the same exact spot we are now. The Jets are playing better defense, and they seem to have better O Line and WR play. Marshall has looked better than any of our receivers this year. QB is so crucial in this league, but when you don't have one, everyone else needs to step up. We haven't done that this year, while the Jets have. That's because they do have better O line and WR play. And that's because that (and Reavis) is where they've put their free agent/re-signing money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Looks good today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) It's not just about Fitzy -- it's about how the Jets have built their team vs. how the Bills have built theirs. Â Jets: priorities were old fashioned. Bring in offensive lineman from Seattle last year and again this year. Build an old fashioned power running game around Ivory. When you feel that you're offense is missing a big receiver, go get a geniune big receiver in Brandon Marshall rather than trading up for a fairly ordinary sized receiver like Sammy Watkins. And after our respective QB debacles of the last couple years, they go the standard route in bring in the time-tested albeit mediocre veteran (which is what we did last year, and almost this year with Cassel). We'll see who wins, but right now, things are looking better in NYC than they are in Buffalo. Well said. It seems as if us fans had determined that O Line doesn't matter. Just because Whaley feels that way doesn't make it the truth. It's cliche, but you have to win in the trenches. Also the idea that Watkins is some kind of tremendous weapon is quite the myth around here. Sure he has great skills, but what has he done in the league to show that he's a dominant player? Just because a guy has great skills and dominated in college doesn't mean that's the way it will go in the NFL. Edited October 25, 2015 by DriveFor1Outta5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Unless TT continues to impress and manages to stay healthy (both of which are big ifs) it appears we would have been better off just keeping Fitz. What does that say about or GM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) It says our GM needs to go. The Watkins trade and Manuel draft choice were both absurd and ill advised. Edited October 25, 2015 by DriveFor1Outta5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Ok, so all of the "I always wanted to keep Fitz" fans are coming out of the woodwork. Put it on the record now: Would you rather have Fitz over Tyrod Taylor as our starting QB? (Not Fitz for EJ because EJ is backup). Go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 Ok, so all of the "I always wanted to keep Fitz" fans are coming out of the woodwork. Put it on the record now: Would you rather have Fitz over Tyrod Taylor as our starting QB? (Not Fitz for EJ because EJ is backup). Go Yes. Actually, I'd rather have them both, which isn't really a stretch since TT isn't making starter money, and it's not like the whole NFL was clamoring for his services. The Bills are built to win now. Actually, last year and this year are their peak years in the competitive cycle. Maybe next year too if we're lucky. We saw what marginally competent veteran quarterbacking (Orton) with the rest of this team's personnel did last year. Fitzy would be about the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Ok, so all of the "I always wanted to keep Fitz" fans are coming out of the woodwork. Put it on the record now: Would you rather have Fitz over Tyrod Taylor as our starting QB? (Not Fitz for EJ because EJ is backup). Go Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 Well said. It seems as if us fans had determined that O Line doesn't matter. Just because Whaley feels that way doesn't make it the truth. It's cliche, but you have to win in the trenches. Also the idea that Watkins is some kind of tremendous weapon is quite the myth around here. Sure he has great skills, but what has he done in the league to show that he's a dominant player? Just because a guy has great skills and dominated in college doesn't mean that's the way it will go in the NFL. And as for the O line: we paid Chris Williams as much last year as the Jets are paying Breno Giacomini, and about as much as they are paying Carpenter -- the 2 former Seahawks they signed. That's just a better job of scouting, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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