Fred Says Whaley Dishonest With Him

[YoloinOhio]

How did this get to the point where people think the Pegulas weren't consulted and Whaley should be fired for cutting a player? What?

[NoSaint]

 

How the heck do they look like savvy owners when they let an employee fire another employee without their permission?

you know who looks like the savvy owners that we have all been jealous of? the ones that are willing to sit back, hire a good business guy, and a good football guy, and let them run day to day operations while the owner attends meetings and shapes the future of the league.

 

know which owners we openly mock regularly? the ones that make player decisions.

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

Slight difference in that John Idzik--a financial guy--was making personnel decisions after being given final say over the 53-man roster AFTER Rex was already in the job for 3 years.

 

Here, Rex took the job knowing that Whaley--a personnel guy--was going to have final say over the 53-man roster.

 

I would say that the two situations are very, very different.

Also, getting rid of Fred, while sad, is a far cry from getting rid of Revis.

[NoSaint]

How did this get to the point where people think the Pegulas weren't consulted and Whaley should be fired for cutting a player? What?

if they were, i hope the answer was "you are the football guy, we trust you"

 

im guessing they were, but if they werent, i dont think that should be some sort of offense.

[aristocrat]

 

How the heck do they look like savvy owners when they let an employee fire another employee without their permission?

 

does whaley need permission to release fred? Tim Murray has full reign over the sabres....trading myers for kane and bogosian and miller and vanek and ott etc. Look at how that turned out for lala. If whaley starts thinking like a fan he would be out of a job in 5 seconds. He's the gm and we are free to criticize him but he knew the reaction he would get and did it anyways. He's making a tough call to help a team out of the playoffs make the playoffs. If we don't make it I think he's canned.

[billsfan1959]

How did this get to the point where people think the Pegulas weren't consulted and Whaley should be fired for cutting a player? What?

By not having a determination of being "legally sane" as a prerequisite for joining this site?

[thebandit27]

How did this get to the point where people think the Pegulas weren't consulted and Whaley should be fired for cutting a player? What?

 

 

you know who looks like the savvy owners that we have all been jealous of? the ones that are willing to sit back, hire a good business guy, and a good football guy, and let them run day to day operations while the owner attends meetings and shapes the future of the league.

 

know which owners we openly mock regularly? the ones that make player decisions.

 

 

Also, getting rid of Fred, while sad, is a far cry from getting rid of Revis.

 

 

if they were, i hope the answer was "you are the football guy, we trust you"

 

im guessing they were, but if they werent, i dont think that should be some sort of offense.

 

^ all of these

[Wayne Cubed]

you know who looks like the savvy owners that we have all been jealous of? the ones that are willing to sit back, hire a good business guy, and a good football guy, and let them run day to day operations while the owner attends meetings and shapes the future of the league.

 

know which owners we openly mock regularly? the ones that make player decisions.

 

Permission may have been the wrong word. Consulted, maybe informed.

 

"Going rogue" is none of those things. I'm sure they let Whaley do his job but in March when Fred was first rumored of being cut the Pegulas jumped in.

[Kirby Jackson]

if he feels like its the right decision, it was the decision he should make. that he made it despite knowing it would be controversial definitely underscores how he feels.

 

to your point on the finances - have you ever, in your time working with sports teams, seen one make a roster move based on an upcoming ad campaign from a sponsor? or is that a situation where the GM would normally say "i understand this makes your job harder, but hopefully it results in wins and thats my job, and will make your job a cake walk if im right more often than not."

Ha ha, we weren't allowed to use players in our marketing because the one year we had to re-do all of the in stadium stuff and leave the antiquated stuff printed at the beginning of he season (promos, tickets, etc..). It was a disaster and the owner was PISSED (Shinn). It is a factor. I don't think that a decision is ever made based on that no but it is something that both sides should have been aware of. Take it as a lesson learned. Edited September 2, 2015 by Kirby Jackson

[Snorom]

 

 

You guys wash Whaleys balls even better that the MNF crew wash Brady's when he is playing. Well done!

 

 

Whats wrong with you ? It seems to most of us you just want to grind an ax for what ever self serving purpose you have

[YoloinOhio]

if they were, i hope the answer was "you are the football guy, we trust you"

 

im guessing they were, but if they werent, i dont think that should be some sort of offense.

Whaley held a press conference and went on the John Murphy show and laid out what happened. He said Terry and Kim were consulted. People now think he is lying? Edited September 2, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[Snorom]

i don't get the love for whaley here. is he a top 10 gm? is he as good at his trade as jackson is it his? i don't believe so.

 

 

I believe when it the numbers are crunched in the years ahead Whaley will be considered a great GM. Fred will always be remembered as a solid RB who came into the league the long hard way and nothing more

 

Really do not understand at all the dislike for Whaley from the ax grind crew

Edited September 2, 2015 by Snorom

[BringBackFergy]

In a nutshell: The team wanted to give Fred an opportunity to sign on with another team...and that appears to be playing out. The timing of his release was factored into the decision for HIS benefit. The fact that he was released may have hurt his pride, but much better than letting him go during final cuts. All of the conjecture, speculation and "reading into" who made the decision and why is futile: Doug Whaley is the general manager and this decision benefits the team. All of those who are looking for a conspiracy are starting a mini-revolt against a GM who has provided some semblance of stability to the organization.

[Jobu]

25 pages because of a Tim Graham tweet. Priceless. I highly doubt Whaley went rogue. Releasing the starting QB news was totally a Brandon move. If there is one thing this franchise has done well over the last 15 years of ineptitude, it has been a well oil machined from the business side of things. Overlooking a sponsor like M&T just does not happen. The fact that M&T has a deal with a Bills player is a totally seperate issue from them being a corporate sponsor.

 

I will miss Fred as much as everyone else. The real issue here is the Pegula's stepping in when the front office wanted to get rid of him in March. If they were willing to make that move then, and then not step up now--something has obviously changed. No way Whaley goes "rogue" and basically disregards the Pegula's wishes. He would get his walking papers.

 

Tim Graham is becoming as bad as Jerry Sullivan, and that is saying something.

[YoloinOhio]

 

Permission may have been the wrong word. Consulted, maybe informed.

 

"Going rogue" is none of those things. I'm sure they let Whaley do his job but in March when Fred was first rumored of being cut the Pegulas jumped in.

whaley may have done his job this week by laying out the reasons for cutting him, which may be more convincing now than in March. Cap rollover to help sign MD, drafted RB to replace him, etc. Edited September 2, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[Wayne Cubed]

How did this get to the point where people think the Pegulas weren't consulted and Whaley should be fired for cutting a player? What?

 

I'm not saying Whaley should get fired, I don't think that at all. I think they let Whaley do his job but the way this is being described is that their is dysfunction within the organization. If there really was as much dysfunction as Graham has you believe and the Bills GM is "going rogue" isn't it possible the owners look bad for doing nothing about it.

[LB3]

How did this get to the point where people think the Pegulas weren't consulted and Whaley should be fired for cutting a player? What?

How it always happens, rapid reaction to posts. People just talk past each other.

 

For example, I think that the situation could have been handled a little better. The sponsor thing looks bad, IMO. That doesn't mean that I think Whaley should ever let sponsors dictate his decisions, but some people have read it like that.

 

In fairness, there are some people calling for Whaley's head. The are always going to be crazies though.

[BringBackFergy]

Whaley held a press conference and went on the John Murphy show and laid out what happened. He said Terry and Kim were consulted. People now think he is lying?

This really is getting ridiculous, isn't it.

[Wayne Cubed]

whaley may have done his job this week by laying out the reasons for cutting him, which may be more convincing now than in March. Cap rollover to help sign MD, drafted RB to replace him, etc.

 

I have no doubt that he did. I'm merely advancing ideas, in my mind, that don't fit with this idea that Whaley went rogue.

[Snorom]

Whaley held a press conference and went on the John Murphy show and laid out what happened. He said Terry and Kim were consulted. People now think he is lying?

too funny.

 

If he's lying he sure wouldn't be dragging Mr and Mrs Pegula's name into an interview for all to hear

Edited September 2, 2015 by Snorom

[YoloinOhio]

 

I'm not saying Whaley should get fired, I don't think that at all. I think they let Whaley do his job but the way this is being described is that their is dysfunction within the organization. If there really was as much dysfunction as Graham has you believe and the Bills GM is "going rogue" isn't it possible the owners look bad for doing nothing about it.

i don't see how they look bad. He said they consulted them, they signed off on it, whatever the heck "rogue" means we do not know but my guess is Rex wanted to try to keep him and Whaley didn't find a way.

[BringBackFergy]

#generalmanagergate

#doinghisjobgate

#berategate

#greatgate

#ReynoldsWrapGate

[Snorom]

#generalmanagergate

#doinghisjobgate

#berategate

#greatgate

#ReynoldsWrapGate

 

 

#gotanaxtogrindgate

[Jobu]

#roguegate

[NoSaint]

Ha ha, we weren't allowed to use players in our marketing because the one year we had to re-do all of the in stadium stuff and leave the antiquated stuff printed at the beginning of he season (promos, tickets, etc..). It was a disaster and the owner was PISSED (Shinn). It is a factor. I don't think that a decision is ever made based on that no but it is something that both sides should have been aware of. Take it as a lesson learned.

i could definitely see that being a headache. i mean, how often do we see guys that are cut even in team calenders, on tickets, gameday ads, etc..... it can be awkward. the sponsor should likewise be aware of the risk when they single out a player for feature.

 

what im having a hard time wrapping my head around is what the expectation from the team would be -- surely not keeping the guy. so that leaves telling sponsors in advance who is on the block? or simply communicating with them once the decision is made? or something broader like a general warning when signing the deal that guys could move, so choose wisely if featuring individuals?

Edited September 2, 2015 by NoSaint

[DrDawkinstein]

 

I'm not saying Whaley should get fired, I don't think that at all. I think they let Whaley do his job but the way this is being described is that their is dysfunction within the organization. If there really was as much dysfunction as Graham has you believe and the Bills GM is "going rogue" isn't it possible the owners look bad for doing nothing about it.

 

Youre really going to trust Tim Graham to be completely honest and on the level about that? Or is there a better chance he is exaggerating and making up problems since that is the only thing he know's how to report on?

[Gugny]

#getdafuqoveritgate

[Wayne Cubed]

i don't see how they look bad. He said they consulted them, they signed off on it, whatever the heck "rogue" means we do not know but my guess is Rex wanted to try to keep him and Whaley didn't find a way.

 

I agree. I don't think they look bad at all. I think they agree with the cut and are letting Whaley shape the roster. If I had to guess Graham used the word rogue purposefully because that's how he sees the situation.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Maybe I missed this somewhere is this discussion but if Whaley went "rogue" and just made this decision without informing the Pegulas, his boss's, wouldn't he be fired and Fred offered his job back?

^^ This ^^ Also, if Whaley is truly on "thin ice" as people like to speculate(read Polian rumors) then he can't make this decision. He would probably have a hard time getting a job too if it had been know that this occurred.

 

People want football people to make football decisions(I am not sure this is), and Whaley is telling up it is, then the fans finally have what they wanted. Correct?

[BillsVet]

As for Fred's public statement that Whaley wasn't honest with him, there is no way in the world I would believe that Fred is a liar. If he says Whaley wasn't honest with him, I believe him. I worry that being branded as dishonest by a player with the reputation of Fred Jackson will not help Whaley attract future free agents.

 

And let's not forget that Whaley got up on Monday and delivered quite a performance at the press conference. If what Fred is saying is correct, Whaley felt inclined to appear saddened over the decision, yet knew all along what he wanted to do. I guess if this football thing doesn't work out he can try some casting calls in Hollywood.

 

[Wayne Cubed]

 

Youre really going to trust Tim Graham to be completely honest and on the level about that? Or is there a better chance he is exaggerating and making up problems since that is the only thing he know's how to report on?

 

Haha, of course I don't trust Graham.

[KD in CA]

By not having a determination of being "legally sane" as a prerequisite for joining this site?

 

 

We've reached a level of nuttiness here the past two days I don't recall ever seeing on this board.

 

Fire Whaley and 'rehire' FJ. Presumably with a public apology. Wow.

[birdog1960]

 

How the heck do they look like savvy owners when they let an employee fire another employee without their permission?

have you ever owned a company? you are responsible for everything your employees do in the public eyes this is as public a mistake as there can be if it was in fact a mistake. the owner wisely doesn't take responsibility in the midst of a tornado of public anger. there is nothing to be gained. he leaves it alone. for a while...

[Jobu]

 

I agree. I don't think they look bad at all. I think they agree with the cut and are letting Whaley shape the roster. If I had to guess Graham used the word rogue purposefully because that's how he sees the situation.

 

Graham is a tool.

 

 

he is exaggerating and making up problems since that is the only thing he know's how to report on?

 

Yes.

[birdog1960]

 

 

We've reached a level of nuttiness here the past two days I don't recall ever seeing on this board.

 

Fire Whaley and 'rehire' FJ. Presumably with a public apology. Wow.

agreed.

[NoSaint]

 

I'm not saying Whaley should get fired, I don't think that at all. I think they let Whaley do his job but the way this is being described is that their is dysfunction within the organization. If there really was as much dysfunction as Graham has you believe and the Bills GM is "going rogue" isn't it possible the owners look bad for doing nothing about it.

for all we know, grahams source is leroi.

 

i would hope that we have owners that make decisions based on whats happening in the building, and not twitter. IF (all caps, big time IF) there is a major issue brewing, sure they should handle it. behind closed doors.

 

Imo

[BringBackFergy]

#getdafuqoveritgate

#wedontalwaysgetwhatwewantsoifyoucantretireinbuffalowewantyoutohavetimetosignonwithanotherteamandthankyouforallyourservicegate

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Whaley held a press conference and went on the John Murphy show and laid out what happened. He said Terry and Kim were consulted. People now think he is lying?

Well that is the meat of Fred's statement. That he is dishonest, I guess in general.

[Kirby Jackson]

i could definitely see that being a headache. i mean, how often do we see guys that are cut even in team calenders, on tickets, gameday ads, etc..... it can be awkward. the sponsor should likewise be aware of the risk when they single out a player for feature.

 

what im having a hard time wrapping my head around is what the expectation from the team would be -- surely not keeping the guy. so that leaves telling sponsors in advance who is on the block? or simply communicating with them once the decision is made?

I agree with all of that. It is just a learning experience for all involved. Moving forward I am sure that the sponsor and marketing departments will be a little more cautious when putting this stuff together. As an example Watkins will almost certainly be here for a little while. There is a SMALL chance that Mario won't. Just be careful on the front end...

[KD in CA]

 

#doinghisjobgate