SI says Bills are a team in "panic mode" w/ QB roster hole

[Dorkington]

i agree with this. I fully expect a 1st rd pick on a QB next year. I expect Cassel to start this year. I would be thrilled if EJ won the job, but I'm not optimistic. Frankly, though i have nothing against the kid, the thought of tyrod Taylor as our starting QB this season is terrifying. Not to say he's any worse than the other two as I truly don't know yet but I have to admit, I'd be much more nervous with him out there than Cassel or Ej.

Pretty much agree with everything. Odds of EJ and Tyrod developing are slim, just because most QBs in general don't develop into high quality starters, but also we have seen inconsistency from both. It'd be in our best interests long term if one of the two do... and if not, we have a fairly good chance of Cassel providing solid enough play to "game manage" us to an effective level, as long as the OL isn't a bunch of turnstyles. It's not like Cassel will go out there and turn the ball over left and right if we have a successful run game, and guys who can get open easily.

 

I think a lot of the drama for the offseason is overstated. We might not have a franchise QB, but with the build up around the QB, and acquiring someone who should be good enough, if neither of our young guys get going, we should be in very good shape... and this is coming from someone who is generally pessimistic.

[John from Riverside]

I think you skewed a bit towards "it's close so I'm going with our guy" too consistently for my own taste, but that's just me. I guess it doesn't help that we don't really have some defined parameters (whether we are considering contract or just skill, 2014 only or long term, etc.... Do we put the #1 pick ahead of tyrod or simply say both are unproven?)

 

I don't like dalton but I think that's best case for cassell, for instance. Is it possible dalton plays a little down and mc is at his best? Sure. And mc is cheaper which is good. But skill alone I think we'd all feel a little better with dalton- as an example where you and a went different ways and you end up in the teens and I'm in the 20s for ranking.

You are correct......if its close in the evaluation I do put our qbs ahead of other average qbs........I do this because the bills were smart enough to biuld their teams AROUND the qbs.......

 

The weapons are better........there fore I expect for our QBs to also play better then other average qbs. For instance.....Dalton plays better when he has green in the lineup.......and his play falls off quite a bit with him out of it

 

I expect our middling qbs to play better because we have a crackerjack of a offensive line up around them.....Watkins, Woods, Harvin, Clay, Shady.........this is a matchup nightmare for other teams...and all that middling qb has to do is throw a accurate pass and hand the ball off.

 

Our D is where our money has been put......which should just keep handing the ball back to the qb time and time again.

[Beerball]

How do I know Geno's bad play for most of the year and finishing strong in 2013 didn't mean a thing? Because he did the same thing in 2014. Seems as though finishing the season strong does not necessarily mean a QB has improved.

Not logical at all (to me), but my bad. I thought you were saying that because he hasn't improved (in your opinion) he can't improve.

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

OK, so question. I never watched Taylor - I usually don't watch college ball much. His stats as a college QB say he improved from year to year: http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tyrod-taylor-1.html, starting out at 54% completions and 927 yds, finishing at 60% completions and 2743 yds as a senior. That would imply that he went from a running QB who can throw occasionally to a respectable passing QB who could run at need. His sophmore year was 2 TD, 7 INT which would support your perception of terrible decision making - his Sr year was 24 TD, 5 INT which doesn't read like a guy who makes crappy decosions.

 

So was that perceptible to you at all, watching him, that he improved from year to year or changed from year to year? And if not, how do you account for the improved stats? That's a serious change on paper, to improve completion by 7%, throw 12x as many TDs and fewer INT, while tripling his passing yardage, but I am well aware that "figures lie and liars figure", stats don't always tell the whole picture.

Every year he got better at keeping his eyes downfield while extending the play, and the stats improved because of it. By his senior year he would toy around with starting to run to loosen up coverage on his target and then making the throw. As to others questioning how a coach effected his completions and accuracy (can't remember if that was this thread or the Carucci one) the general offensive scheme started with a single read and then play backyard ball. By his senior season he had developed enough that he was making multiple reads and making pre-snap changes at the LoS. Bottom line is that the offensive coaching and playcalling at VT has been pretty bottom of the barrel for about the last decade. We've had some players, but the offense doesn't produce, and I believe it largely has to do with poor play design followed by QB's improvising and making poor decisions while learning on he fly.

As an example, here's the Nebraska touchdown throw where the play turned into backyard football: http://youtu.be/xJx17nVZs7g?t=28

And here's the 2010 ACC Championship highlights to get an idea where he ended up: https://youtu.be/msjghvuflYo

Edited May 18, 2015 by BuffaloHokie13

[Kemp]

I would trade EJ and a 3rd rounder for Geno.

[8-8 Forever?]

I loved the panic level in the article. Straight up lazy reporting. Seems like you can get so much more from the local media than national.

no one gets fired for lazy reporting about this franchise, b/c no one outside of WNY reads the story in the first place. just sayin'

Edited May 18, 2015 by 8and8Forever

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Not logical at all (to me), but my bad. I thought you were saying that because he hasn't improved (in your opinion) he can't improve.

Absolutely not, I believe you should give a QB 3-4 years to prove themselves. Your right no one know what the future holds for Geno or EJ but it better happen this year or next. Hopefully EJ can step up his game and everyone on TSW can be happy. PLAYOFFS BABY!!!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Every year he got better at keeping his eyes downfield while extending the play, and the stats improved because of it. By his senior year he would toy around with starting to run to loosen up coverage on his target and then making the throw. As to others questioning how a coach effected his completions and accuracy (can't remember if that was this thread or the Carucci one) the general offensive scheme started with a single read and then play backyard ball. By his senior season he had developed enough that he was making multiple reads and making pre-snap changes at the LoS. Bottom line is that the offensive coaching and playcalling at VT has been pretty bottom of the barrel for about the last decade. We've had some players, but the offense doesn't produce, and I believe it largely has to do with poor play design followed by QB's improvising and making poor decisions while learning on he fly.

As an example, here's the Nebraska touchdown throw where the play turned into backyard football: http://youtu.be/xJx17nVZs7g?t=28

And here's the 2010 ACC Championship highlights to get an idea where he ended up: https://youtu.be/msjghvuflYo

 

Thanks, Hokie, appreciate the gouge and the links.

 

Edit: interesting film.

 

Good stuff: he can juke like a basketball player and fake defenders out. Saw a lot of jocks being left on the field by the 'noles D; those are the plays the D hates to have to watch after the game. He can make those "funny body" throws where he's on the run and doesn't have a chance to plant and throw. Nice throw with anticipation leading his WR for a TD.

 

Neutral: His line just didn't give him a pocket to step into in those highlights, so can't tell how he does with that, also didn't see many "normal" throws where he has a chance to plant and throw on those clips. Also at times, his wideouts were high-school open. Didn't the 'noles have DBs LOL? You can't fault a college QB for hitting the guy who is wide open standing there, but it doesn't show whether and how he can throw into tight coverage either.

 

Bad: Tendency to spin and turn his back downfield when escaping and extending the play, which is something Manuel did a lot his rookie season. The NFL game is too fast for that. Once you turn your back, you lose the picture and in the fraction of a second it takes to re-acquire it, in the NFL you'll either be rushing a throw and maybe making a pick, or you'll be on your back. On the other hand, he clearly was in the mindset "extend the play first, run if there's nothing there", so that's good.

 

The Bills FO, IMO, did exactly what I thought they should do in the off-season: sign the best capable vet they could get their hands on (slim pickin's); pick up a promising "dark horse" second-tier FA; and take a second look at Manuel. Hopefully one of the three will be at least capable for them.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Hopeful

[Doc]

I would trade EJ and a 3rd rounder for Geno.

You'd be the only one.

[Wayne Cubed]

Every year he got better at keeping his eyes downfield while extending the play, and the stats improved because of it. By his senior year he would toy around with starting to run to loosen up coverage on his target and then making the throw. As to others questioning how a coach effected his completions and accuracy (can't remember if that was this thread or the Carucci one) the general offensive scheme started with a single read and then play backyard ball. By his senior season he had developed enough that he was making multiple reads and making pre-snap changes at the LoS. Bottom line is that the offensive coaching and playcalling at VT has been pretty bottom of the barrel for about the last decade. We've had some players, but the offense doesn't produce, and I believe it largely has to do with poor play design followed by QB's improvising and making poor decisions while learning on he fly.

As an example, here's the Nebraska touchdown throw where the play turned into backyard football: http://youtu.be/xJx17nVZs7g?t=28

And here's the 2010 ACC Championship highlights to get an idea where he ended up: https://youtu.be/msjghvuflYo

 

Have to be honest, I've watched that YouTube clip of the ACC Championship game and as far as his passing game goes, nothing jumped out at me. He looked great at extending plays and avoiding the rush but I wasn't really wowed with him as a passer. Even the wheel route TD he threw was off his back foot. There wasn't really any "multiple reads" either. I can see why he went in the 6th round.

 

Saying all that, it's entirely possibly he's sat for 4 years in Baltimore and has developed his game.

 

IMO, even though Rex likes him, it's a long shot that he wins the starting job.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Have to be honest, I've watched that YouTube clip of the ACC Championship game and as far as his passing game goes, nothing jumped out at me. He looked great at extending plays and avoiding the rush but I wasn't really wowed with him as a passer. Even the wheel route TD he threw was off his back foot. There wasn't really any "multiple reads" either. I can see why he went in the 6th round.

Yeah, those clips were more just him keeping his eyes downfield while extending, I agree. Surprisingly, not a ton of tape of his run of the mill plays since it was like 5 years ago. Everything you find on youtube are the exceptions where he made plays out of nothing. When they did the path to the draft thing with Tyrod, Cam Newton, and Jake Locker there was a segment where Ty was talking with Mike Vick and he gave some insight to the responsibility he had at the line of scrimmage his senior year.

 

Saying all that, it's entirely possibly he's sat for 4 years in Baltimore and has developed his game.

This is the unknown part. His coaching undoubtedly got significantly better, but we will see how much he has developed from it. The important part to me is that he is getting his shot, and as a long time fan I'm excited to see what he makes of it.

[NoSaint]

You are correct......if its close in the evaluation I do put our qbs ahead of other average qbs........I do this because the bills were smart enough to biuld their teams AROUND the qbs.......

 

thats another one - whether we are looking at "qb talent" or "qb situation"

 

i mean, all we did was build out a strong roster generally. all those other teams are trying, but we did it better. With a top quarter roster, and bottom quarter qb potentially guiding it.... seems more worth "panic" over the qb than if the whole team was a dumpster fire, in some ways. obviously panic was used for dramatic flair and click baiting, but the general point of the article seems more or less fair still.

[Delete This Account]

10 out of 10 panic? hardly.

and not entirely sure if "panic" is right word.

concern might be more apt, and it's not a 10 of that either.

 

jw

[YoloinOhio]

10 out of 10 panic? hardly.

and not entirely sure if "panic" is right word.

concern might be more apt, and it's not a 10 of that either.

 

jw

where is the "comfort level", if that is the right term, in your opinion? Cassell?

[Jauronimo]

I'd take fitz over cassell and unless either young guy steps up that's kind of the jumping off point here. It'd be strange if we're weren't worried about qb.

I've already watched Fitz lose games for the Bills. I'll take Cassel. I'd rather watch someone new lose games for the Bills.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I've already watched Fitz lose games for the Bills. I'll take Cassel. I'd rather watch someone new lose games for the Bills.

 

Well if we're voting, I'd rather watch the Bills win games

Still, I kind of know what you mean. As most here know, I really like Fitz. I admire his gaming spirit and the way he built a 10-year football career out of marginal physical talent combined with work ethic and love of the game. But I'm happier with Cassel - he has managed to put together two excellent seasons in his career, not coincidentally under just the sort of offense Roman appears to favor, which is something Fitz hasn't quite managed even with Arian Foster and a strong D last year.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Hopeful

[Jauronimo]

 

Well if we're voting, I'd rather watch the Bills win games

Still, I kind of know what you mean. As most here know, I really like Fitz. I admire his gaming spirit and the way he built a 10-year football career out of marginal physical talent combined with work ethic and love of the game. But I'm happier with Cassel - he has managed to put together two excellent seasons in his career, not coincidentally under just the sort of offense Roman appears to favor, which is something Fitz hasn't quite managed even with Arian Foster and a strong D last year.

I like Fitz too, but we've seen him and his limitations and so has the rest of the division.

 

If past performance is any indicator, Rex's D will have a lot of fun with Fitz

[GG]

10 out of 10 panic? hardly.

and not entirely sure if "panic" is right word.

concern might be more apt, and it's not a 10 of that either.

 

jw

 

But it is a polar opposite to how they approached the position last year, wouldn't you say?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Have to be honest, I've watched that YouTube clip of the ACC Championship game and as far as his passing game goes, nothing jumped out at me. He looked great at extending plays and avoiding the rush but I wasn't really wowed with him as a passer. Even the wheel route TD he threw was off his back foot. There wasn't really any "multiple reads" either. I can see why he went in the 6th round.

 

Saying all that, it's entirely possibly he's sat for 4 years in Baltimore and has developed his game.

 

Here's a clip of him in 2014 Training Camp with the Ravens https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMDR7gFoiUQ

[John from Riverside]

10 out of 10 panic? hardly.

and not entirely sure if "panic" is right word.

concern might be more apt, and it's not a 10 of that either.

 

jw

John,

 

Thank you for being the voice of reason here......

[YoloinOhio]

Rex isn't going to panic about not having an established QB because he has never had one. He's aware they need to find one but you don't cancel all your games in the meantime. You do everything you can to increase the talent at other positions. I expect them to draft a QB in the 1st next year unless EJ or Tyrod takes them to the playoffs. Imo if Cassel is the best of the 3 and wins the job, he could go 19-0 and win a SB and they would still try to draft the QB of the future in the 1st next year.

Edited May 18, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Rex isn't going to panic about not having an established QB because he has never had one. He's aware they need to find one but you don't cancel all your games in the meantime. You do everything you can to increase the talent at other positions. I expect them to draft a QB in the 1st next year unless EJ or Tyrod takes them to the playoffs. Imo if Cassel is the best of the 3 and wins the job, he could go 19-0 and win a SB and they would still try to draft the QB of the future in the 1st next year.

That's why fans should be hoping Tyrod or EJ can start showing some real progress before the year is out. I agree no one is panicking over the QBs on the team. If they were I don't think I'd want them for coaching this team.

[DDD]

 

The Bills are going to run the ball and play good defense. They got 9 wins with Kyle Orton. The running game should be better so we should be able to getto 10 wins with Cassell with a few breaks along the way. I don't expect Manuel to be the starter.

[8-8 Forever?]

The Bills are going to run the ball and play good defense. They got 9 wins with Kyle Orton. The running game should be better so we should be able to getto 10 wins with Cassell with a few breaks along the way. I don't expect Manuel to be the starter.

Why not? He's sat most of his career, he's learned what it takes, he "gets it" now, by his own admission. He played for idiot lame duck college clowns for two years and is now finally being coached by real NFL coaches . He played behind a real NFL QB last year for the first time.

 

For crying out loud, his college numbers were right there with other multiple year sitters like Aaron Rodgers, who also had the benefit of time to "get it". Rodgers was no more a world beater in college than EJ. EJ's not being tossed to the wolves this time. I am one of those that says, assume he sat the bench the past two years learning, now lets see what he learned. Blank slate.

 

I think he or maybe Taylor win the job. EJ is very smart, great attitude, great learner, just like Rodgers. Cool and calm, but has some fire too. We shall see. We know what Cassell can and can't do. Tuel will be cut.

 

Hell, Andrew Luck hasn't won anything yet either. Screw the media. They just want to anoint someone to advertise their games for them.

 

Everyone ReeeeLaaaax

Edited May 18, 2015 by 8and8Forever

[Delete This Account]

 

But it is a polar opposite to how they approached the position last year, wouldn't you say?

 

Yes. Last year there was a keen sense of panic driven mostly by a head coach who had essentially given up on EJ and wanted a clear fallback position, which led to Orton's long-awaited arrival. This year, they're going to let it play out.

 

I actually believe the Bills are better stocked at QB this year with the addition of Taylor (and I'm curious to see what he looks like behind center once media can watch practice), and I believe the coaching staff and Whaley are more in synch with how to approach the QB spot.

 

jw

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Yes. Last year there was a keen sense of panic driven mostly by a head coach who had essentially given up on EJ and wanted a clear fallback position, which led to Orton's long-awaited arrival. This year, they're going to let it play out.

 

I actually believe the Bills are better stocked at QB this year with the addition of Taylor (and I'm curious to see what he looks like behind center once media can watch practice), and I believe the coaching staff and Whaley are more in synch with how to approach the QB spot.

 

jw

Yup. Although I believe that gg was referring to well before the Orton issue when both Whaley and Marrone seemed to be convinced of five things before the OTAs started:

 

1] EJ was going to be the starter,

2] there really wasn't a solid veteran back up that wanted to come here with little chance to start,

3] there wasn't a low round pick that was going to beat out Marrone's baby Tuel for the #3 spot,

4] they really didn't want to bring in a vet anyway that would challenge EJ for the job and have him looking over his shoulder (which was very stupid in retrospect) and -

5] that Thad and Tuel showed enough in the previous season to be adequate backups because there was no reason to believe they wouldn't improve with a whole off season in the system (which proved to not only be untrue, but the both regressed, and caused the panic of the Orton acquisition.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Kelly the Dog

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

 

Yes. Last year there was a keen sense of panic driven mostly by a head coach who had essentially given up on EJ and wanted a clear fallback position, which led to Orton's long-awaited arrival. This year, they're going to let it play out.

 

I actually believe the Bills are better stocked at QB this year with the addition of Taylor (and I'm curious to see what he looks like behind center once media can watch practice), and I believe the coaching staff and Whaley are more in synch with how to approach the QB spot.

 

jw

I think the QB position is better this year than last year also. Last year at this time Thad and Tuel were our back-ups. I really hope Tyrod or EJ take a step forward and claim the starting spot. If it's Cassel we end up using a 1st round pick on a QB in 2016. Thanks for the insight.

[Kelly the Dog]

I think the QB position is better this year than last year also. Last year at this time Thad and Tuel were our back-ups. I really hope Tyrod or EJ take a step forward and claim the starting spot. If it's Cassel we end up using a 1st round pick on a QB in 2016. Thanks for the insight.

The QB situation is far, far better right now than it was last year at this time now that we know what was the case.

Cassell is far better than Thad.

Taylor is far better than Tuel.

EJ3 is likely better than EJ2

Rex and Roman and Palmer are far better than Marrone and Hackett and Hostler.

 

It doesn't mean we are set or good at that position, just way better than we were.

[Nanker]

Kinda puts the Tarvaris Jackson tanking to bet cut in perspective.

[Dr. Who]

Why not? He's sat most of his career, he's learned what it takes, he "gets it" now, by his own admission. He played for idiot lame duck college clowns for two years and is now finally being coached by real NFL coaches . He played behind a real NFL QB last year for the first time.

 

For crying out loud, his college numbers were right there with other multiple year sitters like Aaron Rodgers, who also had the benefit of time to "get it". Rodgers was no more a world beater in college than EJ. EJ's not being tossed to the wolves this time. I am one of those that says, assume he sat the bench the past two years learning, now lets see what he learned. Blank slate.

 

I think he or maybe Taylor win the job. EJ is very smart, great attitude, great learner, just like Rodgers. Cool and calm, but has some fire too. We shall see. We know what Cassell can and can't do. Tuel will be cut.

 

Hell, Andrew Luck hasn't won anything yet either. Screw the media. They just want to anoint someone to advertise their games for them.

 

Everyone ReeeeLaaaax

Good post. People won't relax, though.

[GG]

Yup. Although I believe that gg was referring to well before the Orton issue when both Whaley and Marrone seemed to be convinced of five things before the OTAs started:

 

1] EJ was going to be the starter,

2] there really wasn't a solid veteran back up that wanted to come here with little chance to start,

3] there wasn't a low round pick that was going to beat out Marrone's baby Tuel for the #3 spot,

4] they really didn't want to bring in a vet anyway that would challenge EJ for the job and have him looking over his shoulder (which was very stupid in retrospect) and -

5] that Thad and Tuel showed enough in the previous season to be adequate backups because there was no reason to believe they wouldn't improve with a whole off season in the system (which proved to not only be untrue, but the both regressed, and caused the panic of the Orton acquisition.

 

Yup. (And to reiterate, we'll see if it was a big mistake with regard to No. 3 above that Bills didn't add a body in the draft in arguably the deepest QB draft in a while)

Edited May 18, 2015 by GG

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Kinda puts the Tarvaris Jackson tanking to bet cut in perspective.

 

??

[RyanC883]

When did Fitzpatrick make the Pro Bowl: never. Cassel has. Cassel also made the Pro Bowl with a weaker roster than he currently has. We all saw the shortcomings of Fitz, and Geno is worse than Manuel. We don't have a great QB situation, but I feel like we have an "average" QB situation. Panicking would be drafting Petty at #50. We can make the playoffs and perhaps SB with this team. The D should be sick, and the offense should be able to score enough points. Top to bottom, I like our roster better than any in the AFC except the Colts. (and no, I'm not drinking kool-aid. We remind me of the 2000 Ravens).

[YoloinOhio]

When did Fitzpatrick make the Pro Bowl: never. Cassel has. Cassel also made the Pro Bowl with a weaker roster than he currently has. We all saw the shortcomings of Fitz, and Geno is worse than Manuel. We don't have a great QB situation, but I feel like we have an "average" QB situation. Panicking would be drafting Petty at #50. We can make the playoffs and perhaps SB with this team. The D should be sick, and the offense should be able to score enough points. Top to bottom, I like our roster better than any in the AFC except the Colts. (and no, I'm not drinking kool-aid. We remind me of the 2000 Ravens).

fitz is brutal. Cassel has looked brutal at times too but at least has made the playoffs and had winning seasons. Has Fitz even made it more than one whole season as a starter? He's a great guy and all but he's not a starting caliber QB. Trying to decide who is better is like trying to name the valedictorian of summer school but if I have to pick one, I'll take the one that made the playoffs.

[BmarvB]

If the Jets under Ryan can accomplish back to back AFC title games with Sanchez at QB, why can't the Bills make it to the playoffs with whoever our starter is? All they have to be is competent.

[8-8 Forever?]

Good post. People won't relax, though.

ha ha yes. the desire for reflected glory is strong with this group. all good. go bills.

fitz is brutal. Cassel has looked brutal at times too but at least has made the playoffs and had winning seasons. Has Fitz even made it more than one whole season as a starter? He's a great guy and all but he's not a starting caliber QB. Trying to decide who is better is like trying to name the valedictorian of summer school but if I have to pick one, I'll take the one that made the playoffs.

no. Fitz tore it up under Gailey with a bunch of high school WRs. But, yes he was a gunslinger and threw a bunch of picks as well. you need to go back and look at the highlights my friend... I enjoyed the Fitz and Gailey show...

[YoloinOhio]

ha ha yes. the desire for reflected glory is strong with this group. all good. go bills.

 

no. Fitz tore it up under Gailey with a bunch of high school WRs. But, yes he was a gunslinger and threw a bunch of picks as well. you need to go back and look at the highlights my friend... I enjoyed the Fitz and Gailey show...

its not the highlights that I'm referring to. And he "tore it up" until the film was available for defenses to game plan to target his weaknesses as I recall - he couldnt keep up with that. I like him as a person and he had some exciting moments but I didn't enjoy him as the Bills QB once defenses figured him out.

[3rdand12]

No they don't.

yes , they most certainly do.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

Yes. Last year there was a keen sense of panic driven mostly by a head coach who had essentially given up on EJ and wanted a clear fallback position, which led to Orton's long-awaited arrival. This year, they're going to let it play out.

 

I actually believe the Bills are better stocked at QB this year with the addition of Taylor (and I'm curious to see what he looks like behind center once media can watch practice), and I believe the coaching staff and Whaley are more in synch with how to approach the QB spot.

 

jw

 

John, why do you think Marrone gave up on EJ and do you think Rex/Roman see him differently, if so why?

 

I am also intrigued by Taylor.

[San-O]

I hope they panic by running the ball.

 

 

+ 1

 

I hope they get the O-line figured out somehow, and SOMEBODY steps up at OG position.