Bills have the 2nd worst OL in the NFL according to PFF

[Dorkington]

...and a Reddit user doing some leg work.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/35iyq0/i_used_pff_grades_to_grade_every_ol_in_every/

Edited May 11, 2015 by Dorkington

[YoloinOhio]

You don't say

[filthymcnasty08]

Cue the EJ deserves more time crew in 3....2......

[thebandit27]

....according to PFF and a Reddit user doing some leg work.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/35iyq0/i_used_pff_grades_to_grade_every_ol_in_every/

 

This is why I love PFF: somehow the Bills' OL, which allowed 85 QB hits and gained 3.7 YPC, is somehow worse than the Colts' OL(which somehow didn't even rank in the bottom 5), which allowed 107 QB hits and gained 3.9 YPC.

 

Then you've got the Eagles, with 65 QB hits and 4.2 YPC, ranked (apparently) well ahead of Denver and their 42 QB hits with 4.0 YPC.

 

Now the kicker: figure out how Houston's OL, which is 0.3 YPC and 5 QB hits better than Buffalo, ranks 5th in the NFL, while Buffalo ranks 31st.

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

This is why I love PFF: somehow the Bills' OL, which allowed 85 QB hits and gained 3.7 YPC, is somehow worse than the Colts' OL(which somehow didn't even rank in the bottom 5), which allowed 107 QB hits and gained 3.9 YPC.

 

Then you've got the Eagles, with 65 QB hits and 4.2 YPC, ranked (apparently) well ahead of Denver and their 42 QB hits with 4.0 YPC.

 

Now the kicker: figure out how Houston's OL, which is 0.3 YPC and 5 QB hits better than Buffalo, ranks 5th in the NFL, while Buffalo ranks 31st.

PFF is the Huffington Post of Football Analysis imo

[ko12010]

I think the jury is out on this crop of OLineman we have. I'll be more interested in our ranking after this season.

[metzelaars_lives]

 

This is why I love PFF: somehow the Bills' OL, which allowed 85 QB hits and gained 3.7 YPC, is somehow worse than the Colts' OL(which somehow didn't even rank in the bottom 5), which allowed 107 QB hits and gained 3.9 YPC.

 

Then you've got the Eagles, with 65 QB hits and 4.2 YPC, ranked (apparently) well ahead of Denver and their 42 QB hits with 4.0 YPC.

 

Now the kicker: figure out how Houston's OL, which is 0.3 YPC and 5 QB hits better than Buffalo, ranks 5th in the NFL, while Buffalo ranks 31st.

Apparently QB hits and YPC are not the only two things they factor into their grading. For instance, I would imagine a QB's mobility and release time would factor greatly into their QB hits. I would also imagine how good a running back is would factor into his YPC. Like I don't care who is on your OL, Adrian Peterson is gonna have a decent YPC every year. And to that point, Fred Jackson and CJ Spiller should be able to average more YPC than Trent Richardson and Daniel Herron. The fact that they didn't does say something I would think.

Edited May 11, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[bizell]

the PFF rating is just one metric that should be considered into account with other forms of data when ranking a team's strengths/weaknesses (in this case, OL)

[metzelaars_lives]

PFF is the Huffington Post of Football Analysis imo

You'd need to elaborate on that one I think.

[Lurker]

 

Now the kicker: figure out how Houston's OL, which is 0.3 YPC and 5 QB hits better than Buffalo, ranks 5th in the NFL, while Buffalo ranks 31st.

[BuffaloHokie13]

You'd need to elaborate on that one I think.

Semi-reputable, quoted/cited only when their article serves the purpose of an argument, and ultimately contains mostly garbage content. Again, all imo

[eball]

PFF is the Huffington Post of Football Analysis imo

 

 

You'd need to elaborate on that one I think.

 

I'll give it a shot. PFF are not necessarily football experts -- they are data trackers. They're adding up "points" and drawing conclusions, often without any real context.

 

The data may certainly be useful (particularly info about personnel on the field, for example) but when you start "ranking" units based upon their grades you see results that are difficult to rationalize, as has been pointed out in this thread.

[John from Riverside]

Run the Spiller dive up the middle again for a yard.......

[Dorkington]

Updated title to reflect it being PFF's ratings.

[clearwater cadet]

The line was weak last year, with some time back there maybe QB play will improve.

[Doc]

Another prediction duly noted.

[KD in CA]

Semi-reputable, quoted/cited only when their article serves the purpose of an argument, and ultimately contains mostly garbage content. Again, all imo

 

I thought it was an excellent analogy. Required no explanation here!

[thebandit27]

PFF is the Huffington Post of Football Analysis imo

 

Indeed.

 

 

Apparently QB hits and YPC are not the only two things they factor into their grading. For instance, I would imagine a QB's mobility and release time would factor greatly into their QB hits. I would also imagine how good a running back is would factor into his YPC. Like I don't care who is on your OL, Adrian Peterson is gonna have a decent YPC every year. And to that point, Fred Jackson and CJ Spiller should be able to average more YPC than Trent Richardson and Daniel Herron. The fact that they didn't does say something I would think.

 

Obviously there are other factors involved...I'm only saying that PFF and the eye-test don't always yield similar results when it comes to line play.

 

As to Jackson/Spiller, well, I'll give you Freddie making chicken salad, but C.J. has some real issues hitting holes. The All-22s were a real eye-opener with regard to how often he simply misses a crease in the line that would gain 4 or 5 yards if he just used his speed to run straight ahead.

[earthtobrint]

 

This is why I love PFF: somehow the Bills' OL, which allowed 85 QB hits and gained 3.7 YPC, is somehow worse than the Colts' OL(which somehow didn't even rank in the bottom 5), which allowed 107 QB hits and gained 3.9 YPC.

 

Then you've got the Eagles, with 65 QB hits and 4.2 YPC, ranked (apparently) well ahead of Denver and their 42 QB hits with 4.0 YPC.

 

Now the kicker: figure out how Houston's OL, which is 0.3 YPC and 5 QB hits better than Buffalo, ranks 5th in the NFL, while Buffalo ranks 31st.

 

 

With regard to the QB hits, it's most likely relative to plays run (specifically passing plays run). 107 QB hits out of how many passing plays the Colts run. 85 QB hits out of how many the Bills run.

 

When you look at stats you don't judge by volume alone.

[thebandit27]

 

 

With regard to the QB hits, it's most likely relative to plays run (specifically passing plays run). 107 QB hits out of how many passing plays the Colts run. 85 QB hits out of how many the Bills run.

 

When you look at stats you don't judge by volume alone.

 

I'm not sure why you think I did/do. Further, if you think that supplies the context, why not provide the numbers?

 

Regardless, if you're interested, here's the breakdown:

 

Indy - 661 passing attempts + 29 sacks allowed = 690 drop-backs with 107 QB hits, or a QB hit every 6.44 drop-backs.

Buffalo - 579 passing attempts + 39 sacks allowed = 618 drop-backs with 85 QB hits, or a QB hit every 7.27 drop-backs.

[Chuck Wagon]

I enjoy PFF's work but I always take it with a hefty dose of salt. I remember reading about how Evan Mathis publicly told him he liked their site and his grades shot up after that. I've heard respected people rave about their work and other respected people say it's fluff as they don't really know guys responsibilities on plays.

 

 

Given our standing in the league, it's tough to take National guys work on us too seriously. We haven't appeared much on national tv so guys aren't doing a lot of homework to talk about us in that platform. We aren't a glamor team, so I'd have to imagine guys like PFF are only popping in Bills tape after hours of watching other team's tape. Obviously our line is a bit of a concern, but there's so much unknown with putting new pieces in, getting new coaching and running a new scheme. Anyone who says they definitively know how guys like Henderson or Kouandjio will do or how Glenn will come along after having improved health is kidding themselves.

[C.Biscuit97]

Cue the EJ deserves more time crew in 3....2......

There is no correlation between bad oline play and a QB. None.

 

We can argue about how they evaluate the oline. But it was bad. We allowed the QB to get hit 16 times in the Texans game. You're lucky the QB survived that game. No QB is going to thrive under those conditions.

 

Personally, I think coaching and playcalling were huge issues. Our playcalling was very predictable. Also, our best G was benched for half of a season.

 

I predict a much improved group and as a result, better QB play.

[Kirby Jackson]

I enjoy PFF's work but I always take it with a hefty dose of salt. I remember reading about how Evan Mathis publicly told him he liked their site and his grades shot up after that. I've heard respected people rave about their work and other respected people say it's fluff as they don't really know guys responsibilities on plays.

 

 

Given our standing in the league, it's tough to take National guys work on us too seriously. We haven't appeared much on national tv so guys aren't doing a lot of homework to talk about us in that platform. We aren't a glamor team, so I'd have to imagine guys like PFF are only popping in Bills tape after hours of watching other team's tape. Obviously our line is a bit of a concern, but there's so much unknown with putting new pieces in, getting new coaching and running a new scheme. Anyone who says they definitively know how guys like Henderson or Kouandjio will do or how Glenn will come along after having improved health is kidding themselves.

This is kind of where I am at. I do not know how you grade the line that likely has 2 new starters at guard (1 a rookie and 1 who wasn't in the league), a RT going into year 2 and the swing tackle who barely played more snaps than I did. They have to do their job and come up with rankings but this probably carries less weight than power rankings do. This line has never played together and have never played for this coaching staff!!! We have no idea if they are going to be good or bad at this point.

[C.Biscuit97]

This is kind of where I am at. I do not know how you grade the line that likely has 2 new starters at guard (1 a rookie and 1 who wasn't in the league), a RT going into year 2 and the swing tackle who barely played more snaps than I did. They have to do their job and come up with rankings but this probably carries less weight than power rankings do. This line has never played together and have never played for this coaching staff!!! We have no idea if they are going to be good or bad at this point.

This kinda goes for preseason power rankings, strength of schedule, and FA/ draft grades. It's all pointless at this point and just used to fill time.

[John from Riverside]

I have real hope for this offensive line this year......

 

- Glenn......word is he has shown up in the best shape of his life. Whatever was troubling him at the beginning of last year appears to be behind him.......he will probably have Cog playing next to him in the lineup so he will have a veteran OG to pass blitz and stuntz off and should perform much better

 

- Cog went to the pro bowl as a LG......he comes back with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove.....he is playing alongside his buddy Wood.

 

- Wood will play better because the OL next to him are better. Wood is basically Mr. Dependable. He is not great but he is good.

 

- I think the RT will be John Miller......a quality pure guard. I thought it was interesting that he had the lowest body fat of OL coming out this year. at 305 that means he could probably add another 10 pounds pretty easily with NFL trainers while not losing quickness. He doesnt need it for power as he is already incred strong.

 

- Then you have Henderson......a REALLY good athlete who like most rookie offensive tackles when through ups and downs his rookie season. OL tend to get better in their second year.

 

- A quality OL coach

- A OC who is known as a "genious" when it comes to running the ball

- 2 TE's that can block and catch

 

This O line will improve this year...I dont have a doubt in my mind.

[BarleyNY]

I think the jury is out on this crop of OLineman we have. I'll be more interested in our ranking after this season.

Important to note that this is LAST season's OL rankings. (The title implies that this is for the lines as they stand.) Hopefully we see a big improvement because I find PFF's overall rating of last season's OL difficult to argue with.

[SCD]

Doug Marrone is perhaps the best NFL Offensive line coach because his philosophy includes shrouding his overall greatness by actually being bad. This is an amazing display of creativity that will surely result in him being assigned saintliness.

[John from Riverside]

Wouldnt you like to be a fly on the wall when Roman and Kromer are going over last years film and what they might say of Marrone's coaching style with the OL?

[billsfan89]

If you watched the games the O-line was a mess last year, the whole offense was. Orton was a high level back up QB or a low level starting QB playing behind a bad O-line and limited offensive weapons. Hopefully a combination of adding InCognito, Miller, getting Williams back from injury, and the young players from last season developing improve the O-line play overall.

Doug Marrone is perhaps the best NFL Offensive line coach because his philosophy includes shrouding his overall greatness by actually being bad. This is an amazing display of creativity that will surely result in him being assigned saintliness.

 

Hilarious post.

[Doc]

If you watched the games the O-line was a mess last year, the whole offense was. Orton was a high level back up QB or a low level starting QB playing behind a bad O-line and limited offensive weapons. Hopefully a combination of adding InCognito, Miller, getting Williams back from injury, and the young players from last season developing improve the O-line play overall.

I'm sure you implied them, but don't forget Clay, Felton, and Harvin. More weapons to defend means it's a lot harder to key on certain players.

[Juice_32]

I didn't click the link, but the Jags gotta be number 1 right?

[CardinalScotts]

you really have to take a lot closer look at the game plan / play calling from last year you could almost throw it out. You don't have to quick to play qb but you need some slide movement or ability to step up Orton had neither it was the monument of sh*t and easy for defenses to unleash on. This being said I'm not saying our guards were fine the twist and line games gave them problems.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Wouldnt you like to be a fly on the wall when Roman and Kromer are going over last years film and what they might say of Marrone's coaching style with the OL?

There was a write up somewhere that the bills have the wrong kind of linemen for the zone blocking scheme employed in hacks offense and they are much better suited for man to man power scheme which roman brings to town. I don't know how on point that was, but I do expect Roman to be more than an incredibly huge upgrade.. And I do expect incognito to be the best guard the teams had in several years. I do not expect to see the o line abused like in the Texan and Chargers games where every front four stunt looked like a jail break.

[mitchmurraydowntown]

Run the Spiller dive up the middle again for a yard.......

Bingo, our offensive play calling was bad college level. Our defense had so much talent that even bad coaching couldn't screw it up.

[1billsfan]

One aspect of the poor line play had to be the sheer predictability of Marrone's offense. I would watch other teams' offenses and the Bills looked like they were using high school plays and play calling in comparison. It was embarrassing.

 

NFL defenses will make your line looks silly if they know what play is coming.

[JESSEFEFFER]

Context always matters. If the hit occurs in under 2.5 s or after 4s seconds should matter. If the hit was the result of a whiff on an interior block should matter. If the a hit were due to a missed blitz pickup by a back should matter. If the QB holds the ball too long and takes sacks should matter. If the o-line can't make blocks in the open field and the screen game is nonexistent should matter. The 2014 o-line was not an asset. The 2012 line was.

[Utah John]

The Bills had the second-worst O line last year?

 

Hard to believe.

 

Hard to believe there was one worse.

[PromoTheRobot]

They were 2nd worst last year, for sure. No idea how good/bad they will be this year.

[eball]

There was a write up somewhere that the bills have the wrong kind of linemen for the zone blocking scheme employed in hacks offense and they are much better suited for man to man power scheme which roman brings to town. I don't know how on point that was, but I do expect Roman to be more than an incredibly huge upgrade.. And I do expect incognito to be the best guard the teams had in several years. I do not expect to see the o line abused like in the Texan and Chargers games where every front four stunt looked like a jail break.

 

If this is true (and I've heard it mentioned in other places as well), then Marrone is an even bigger douche for being unwilling (or unable) to change up his blocking schemes to account for his personnel. I'm not buying the JohnC argument that the talent is bottom of the barrel. Coaching and schemes matter.

[thebandit27]

 

If this is true (and I've heard it mentioned in other places as well), then Marrone is an even bigger douche for being unwilling (or unable) to change up his blocking schemes to account for his personnel. I'm not buying the JohnC argument that the talent is bottom of the barrel. Coaching and schemes matter.

 

They didn't really run zone all the time...they actually ran a hodgepodge of schemes, which is likely part of the issue. They started out with zone concepts, but the group they had wasn't really mobile enough to run them consistently. Then, as the line took on a different shape with the rotation and failings at the guard positions, they started to become more mobile and less brutish, but never really settled upon an identity in terms of their blocking system.

 

I can assure you, however, that this year, under Kromer, they'll have an identity and stick to it.