Malazan Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I just don't get the "cap space isn't and issue" crowd. Of course it's an issue. We need a OG, ROT and possibly a CB & LDE/LB. Then we have a significant core to sign next year. Is it undoable? No. But to shrug it off as not an issue is specious. Most people don't understand much about the cap or cap manipulation. They look at how many dollars are available and 'how much per year' so and so player will be then do some math and GO OMG WE HAVE NO CAP SPACE. If you can point out the issue, please do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crowing Rooster Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I try not to worry about the cap to much because I don't understand it very well anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 In the past everyone would scream "Ralph is cheap! Cash to the cap!". Now we actually USE some of cap space and we're still doing it wrong? Pegula Is Extravagant! Pegs can pick up the FAs at the airport in his Bentley.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezertbill Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 The cap really will not be an issue. They can cut Urbik and Chris Williams and have 5-6m to spend on Blalock (not sure what he would cost but even if it's 8m that would be 2 with the cuts). Shady will likely be restructured. Mario can be restructured. Having Daddy Warbucks not care about cash allows our cap finagling to be substantially easier. KTD hit it right on the head. I heard part of the deal is restructuring Shady's contract, which will give him more guaranteed money while limiting his cap liability in 2015 so he'll be all for it. Once we sign our starting guard in free agency ( I think it will be Iupati) Williams is a goner. I think Urbik will too or he'll be asked to take a pay cut. Williams can restructure and that will save us millions. We should end up with about $20 mil to work with, and that's after you compute Cassel's salary into the mix. We'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanOverChin Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Look for the Bills to cut Urbik, C. Williams, E. Pears, C. Chandler ($3.5M last year) and not resign Spiller ($5.2M last year) or Searcy (who wants big money this year). They may not resign Spikes ($3.5M last year). They already cut Rivers ($1.7M) and won't likely resign OLB Dean or OT Hairston. They could still resign DE Hughes, sign a name QB, sign CB Revis (for about $12M), sign TE J. Cameron, trade for TE Vern. Davis, and sign their 2015 draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Look for the Bills to cut Urbik, C. Williams, E. Pears, C. Chandler ($3.5M last year) and not resign Spiller ($5.2M last year) or Searcy (who wants big money this year). They may not resign Spikes ($3.5M last year). They already cut Rivers ($1.7M) and won't likely resign OLB Dean or OT Hairston. They could still resign DE Hughes, sign a name QB, sign CB Revis (for about $12M), sign TE J. Cameron, trade for TE Vern. Davis, and sign their 2015 draft picks. They can dump Fred Jackson and save close to $3m. Draft young RB in a deep draft. They already have boobie and Bryce to back up McCoy. They will definitely sign a FA FB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 They have about $17.7m to work with, and that's after estimated rookie signings. Our "only" areas of need are another OG, and a MLB. I think we're in good shape, to fill both holes with mid level talent, and to re-sign Hughes.... that's without making any cap cuts yet. Dork, you forgot TE. I don't think we have to be active in free agency for MLB. Brown and Bradham will be fine. As mentioned canning C. Williams, Urbick, Pears, possibly Chandler if we pick up an excellent TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I really don't understand the RT need? Seems most of the season everyone was happy with the play of Henderson, particularly for a rookie and particularly when the overall play of the line was weak. Put Richie and another FA signing guard next to him, and a year of experience I'm not ready to give up on him anytime soon as he could look much better. I know he graded out poor, which makes me questions some of those grades as he seemed to have passed the eye test fine all season. Yuo can't keep chasing draft picks, by that I mean replace last years pick with another one until you're certain the first one isn't going to work out, and after one season no way to tell for certain, if anything he looked pretty strong. Can't afford five all-pros on the line just as the same on the D-line, if Hughes leaves for big $$. If Henderson is our biggest problem on the O-line we're in real good shape! I just don't get the "cap space isn't and issue" crowd. Of course it's an issue. We need a OG, ROT and possibly a CB & LDE/LB. Then we have a significant core to sign next year. Is it undoable? No. But to shrug it off as not an issue is specious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Pegs can pick up the FAs at the airport in his Bentley.... He should have paid more for the team and got the Taurus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 They have about $17.7m to work with, and that's after estimated rookie signings. Our "only" areas of need are another OG, and a MLB. I think we're in good shape, to fill both holes with mid level talent, and to re-sign Hughes.... that's without making any cap cuts yet. How do we need an MLB when Preston Brown was drafted to be an MLB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 By the time they restructure Shady's contract and make whatever additional cuts that will take place, we'll be close to $25M a year left for FA. And IF need be, we could always restructure Mario's and get us up well over $30M. Considering that we have now addressed one of the Guard positions, the QB and RB, there is plenty of space to do whatever is needed to still improve the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I really don't understand the RT need? Seems most of the season everyone was happy with the play of Henderson, particularly for a rookie and particularly when the overall play of the line was weak. Put Richie and another FA signing guard next to him, and a year of experience I'm not ready to give up on him anytime soon as he could look much better. I know he graded out poor, which makes me questions some of those grades as he seemed to have passed the eye test fine all season. Yuo can't keep chasing draft picks, by that I mean replace last years pick with another one until you're certain the first one isn't going to work out, and after one season no way to tell for certain, if anything he looked pretty strong. Can't afford five all-pros on the line just as the same on the D-line, if Hughes leaves for big $$. If Henderson is our biggest problem on the O-line we're in real good shape! Henderson is not our biggest problem, but he is one of them. Our line is not in good shape unless Glenn comes back to form, Wood comes back to form, Icognito plays well and Henderson makes a big improvment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Most people don't understand much about the cap or cap manipulation. They look at how many dollars are available and 'how much per year' so and so player will be then do some math and GO OMG WE HAVE NO CAP SPACE. If you can point out the issue, please do. Exactly. All of these Chicken Little arm chair "capologists" are ridiculous. The salary cap has never been a real issue for anybody. Teams find away around it if they really want somebody and the Bills are no different. It's not like they're up against the cap anyway or have to start cutting players. People need to get over the "Ralph's Bills" mentality already. There's a new sheriff in town...and his name is El Pegul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 The only cap space concern that exists is that if the Bills had to pay a franchise QB market dollars (non rookie deal) they'd be tight up against the ceiling. With some FA signings and/or re-signing Hughes the Bills would have to make some tough decisions in order to have room for a FQB contract. But that "problem" seems a long way off and I think everyone here would welcome such difficulties. I sure would. Until such time there really isn't much to see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Give in to Shady and Drew's demands? You know he only has $1 million in guaranteed money left on his three year deal, Shady and Drew HAVE to renegotiate for the best interest of his client, they don't have the juice, the Bills do. And thankfully, that will get his cap number down even more than the numbers floating around now, and leave the Bills well positioned to retain Dareus, Gilmore and Glenn. The cap is not an issue. People need to stop worrying about it. We're in great cap shape. He has 1 million in guaranteed salary, but how much is he realistically going to make? 10 million this year and 8 million next year, unless something shocking happens, and we just traded Kiko for one season or less of McCoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 They can dump Fred Jackson and save close to $3m. Draft young RB in a deep draft. They already have boobie and Bryce to back up McCoy. They will definitely sign a FA FB Don't hold your breath... Fred isnt going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) Exactly. All of these Chicken Little arm chair "capologists" are ridiculous. The salary cap has never been a real issue for anybody. Teams find away around it if they really want somebody and the Bills are no different. It's not like they're up against the cap anyway or have to start cutting players. People need to get over the "Ralph's Bills" mentality already. There's a new sheriff in town...and his name is El Pegul. Well, THAT'S not true - the part about the cap not being a real issue for anybody. You think Philly trades away McCoy if not for his contract? Look at the incoming glut of FA WRs due to contracts. Watch what happens in NO. The cap is a real problem for many teams out there - mostly ones with major dollars going to a QB. It isn't an issue for the Bills due largely to that reason. If they had $16M tied up in a big time QB we'd be having a whole different conversation about the cap and its impact on the Bills. (Of course we'd be having a lot more fun conversations about the upcoming season too.) Edited March 5, 2015 by BarleyNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 He has 1 million in guaranteed salary, but how much is he realistically going to make? 10 million this year and 8 million next year, unless something shocking happens, and we just traded Kiko for one season or less of McCoy. I don't follow your math. How did we only trade for one season or less of McCoy when he's likely to sign a four year deal when the dust settles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 He has 1 million in guaranteed salary, but how much is he realistically going to make? 10 million this year and 8 million next year, unless something shocking happens, and we just traded Kiko for one season or less of McCoy. they'll reduce that cap hit and give him a solid chunk of guaranteed money, maybe even add a year or 2.. But pretty safe to say McCoy will jump at some guaranteed money. Which definitely means that cap hit this year is going to be greatly reduced. Don't hold your breath... Fred isnt going anywhere. Fred is pretty much gone. Its time to move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Well, THAT'S not true - the part about the cap not being a real issue for anybody. You think Philly trades away McCoy if not for his contract? Look at the incoming glut of FA WRs due to contracts. Watch what happens in NO. The cap is a real problem for many teams out there - mostly ones with major dollars going to a QB. It isn't an issue for the Bills due largely to that reason. If they had $16M tied up in a big time QB we'd be having a whole different conversation about the cap and its impact on the Bills. (Of course we'd be having a lot more fun conversations about the upcoming season too.) And is it an issue? No. They did/will find away around it. I don't have a link but they are something like $40M-$50M under the cap after their maneuvering. McCoy was reportedly moved just as much because of Chip Kelly's ego as anything else. It saved them on the cap but it wasn't a necessity that they trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 And is it an issue? No. They did/will find away around it. I don't have a link but they are something like $40M-$50M under the cap after their maneuvering. McCoy was reportedly moved just as much because of Chip Kelly's ego as anything else. It saved them on the cap but it wasn't a necessity that they trade him. Yes. It is an issue for some teams. Teams "find a way around" cap issues in many ways, including not re-signing their free agents, cutting players and trading players. Do you think Detroit wants to part ways with Suh? That's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) I don't follow your math. How did we only trade for one season or less of McCoy when he's likely to sign a four year deal when the dust settles? i think his point was that short of mccoy getting hit by a bus, trading for kiko kind of guarantees his next two years by default. the bills wouldnt cut him for anything. Edited March 5, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaadThingsMan Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 The Saints, Chiefs and *Patsies are all over the cap and will still find a way to sign players in FA, whether they are their own or otherwise. The Bills will sign whoever they feel they need to in order to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Yes. It is an issue for some teams. Teams "find a way around" cap issues in many ways, including not re-signing their free agents, cutting players and trading players. Do you think Detroit wants to part ways with Suh? That's ridiculous. And they're paying a top QB salary, unlike the Bills or Eagles. Teams have to make choices every year, plain and simple. This is nothing new. But to say that the Bills are in cap trouble or that Philly "had to" trade McCoy? That's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 And they're paying a top QB salary, unlike the Bills or Eagles. Teams have to make choices every year, plain and simple. This is nothing new. But to say that the Bills are in cap trouble or that Philly "had to" trade McCoy? That's ridiculous. they also have calvin johnson at 21m cap hit (high teens for real pay). which is as much or more than most QB deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 they also have calvin johnson at 21m cap hit (high teens for real pay). which is as much or more than most QB deals. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 And they're paying a top QB salary, unlike the Bills or Eagles. Teams have to make choices every year, plain and simple. This is nothing new. But to say that the Bills are in cap trouble or that Philly "had to" trade McCoy? That's ridiculous.I never said the Bills were in cap trouble, in fact I said the opposite. I never said Philly had to trade McCoy. It sure looks like they're clearing cap room for someone or several someones, though. That would be a consequence of the cap.I was only responding to your assert action that the cap has never been an issue for any team. That is the only thing here that is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) Plenty of fat on the roster that can be cut as well (Urbik and Williams combined saves the team 5-6 million as another poster mentioned) Mario restructuring also could add about 5 million to the cap. So assuming they rework Mario's deal and cut one of those more costly guards could save Hugh's cap hit alone. Then the team could go after a big acquisition or spread the remaining cap room around. I also think they could rework McCoy's deal to save 2-3 million on the cap as well which could help. The cap isn't a major issue for this team although the impending resigning of Dareus could lead to a tough decision or two next year. Edited March 5, 2015 by billsfan89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I never said the Bills were in cap trouble, in fact I said the opposite. I never said Philly had to trade McCoy. It sure looks like they're clearing cap room for someone or several someones, though. That would be a consequence of the cap. I was only responding to your assert action that the cap has never been an issue for any team. That is the only thing here that is ridiculous. If you don't think they're in trouble, fine. Sorry if I said otherwise. But you just said that Philly "sure looks like they're clearing cap room for someone or several". Maybe. Probably. But, again, that's making a conscious decision of who they want & that's not cap trouble. There's a difference. That was my point. They weren't forced to do that or otherwise suffer the consequences. What you're stating is the equivalent of unlimited cap space. Every team would like to keep all of their players but they can't, so they make choices, as the Eagles did with McCoy and the other players that they let go. If they keep X, they may not be able to get Y. They didn't trade him because of cap trouble, they moved him for reasons known to them. Maybe to get more cap room (not because they didn't have any), maybe because Kelly didn't want him, maybe both. Other than the Dallas & Washington situation, which was a questionable decision by the league, how many teams truly have issues? Are teams tight? Have to cut guys? Sure. But the light in which you're painting it is ridiculous. Maybe you didn't like the way I worded it but teams don't really have "issues" with the cap in the truest sense. Some make better choices than others but all can keep the players that they truly value the most, they just can't keep everybody and they can't have everything they want. That's the nature of the beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I don't follow your math. How did we only trade for one season or less of McCoy when he's likely to sign a four year deal when the dust settles? My point is, saying there is pressure is on him to redo his deal is flawed, because he knows he's here for at least 2 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 My point is, saying there is pressure is on him to redo his deal is flawed, because he knows he's here for at least 2 seasons. Oh. I got ya'. But does he know that? He's only owed $1 million in guaranteed money. The Bills could (they won't) cut him next year without it costing them anything. It seems to me the Bills are the one with the power in the negotiations simply because no player, especially at that position, wants to roll the dice like that for 3 seasons. The Bills can smooth the transition by giving him a fat signing bonus and redo his deal in a way that helps with the Bills' long term cap goals, I don't think it'll be a lengthy or even terse negotiation between the two parties. (which means I just jinxed it probably) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Exactly. Which really underscores that they have 2 contracts much larger than Mario and we're still debating suh getting a Mario style deal. We have Mario and the next closest deal is McCoy at 8 and change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Oh. I got ya'. But does he know that? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 what 12 months will do..."ralph is cheap" threads have been replaced by "oh no the cap!" threads. i'll take it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 what 12 months will do..."ralph is cheap" threads have been replaced by "oh no the cap!" threads. i'll take it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I just don't get the "cap space isn't and issue" crowd. Of course it's an issue. We need a OG, ROT and possibly a CB & LDE/LB. Then we have a significant core to sign next year. Is it undoable? No. But to shrug it off as not an issue is specious. hmmmmm specious means: misleading, deceptive, false, or unsound. i looked it up. it's a word nobody uses. maybe 2 percent of the people even know what it means. i didn't green lightning, i've always wondered what the 'vocab freaks' were thinking when they use words like that. Do you know that most people don't know the word, but you're trying to teach them? Do you mistakenly think that the majority of people know what your abstract word means? (they don't) Are you having fun with a superior intellect and just a word guy? Are you an idiot who learns just a handful of esoteric words and then tried to appear smarter than everyone else by using them in everyday conversation? Help me understand lantern. and don't be specious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 They have about $17.7m to work with, and that's after estimated rookie signings. Our "only" areas of need are another OG, and a MLB. I think we're in good shape, to fill both holes with mid level talent, and to re-sign Hughes.... that's without making any cap cuts yet. OG, RT, TE, LB and S. If Hughes goes you can add DE to that list (though obviously it doesn't have to be a top tier guy.) Granted, some of that can be filled via the draft but I'd prefer a vet OG and TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) Miami thinks they can sign Suh... Yet here people this $16 million isn't enough. Edited March 6, 2015 by Beef Jerky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 what 12 months will do..."ralph is cheap" threads have been replaced by "oh no the cap!" threads. i'll take it! All while consistently 20m under the cap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 All while consistently 20m under the cap That's the funniest part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts