John Cocktosten Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Jesus makes EJ a successful QB. Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Exactly how I feel. I don't understand how someone reading Hackett may not be all that bad, or Hackett was hamstrung by Marrone equals people thinking he is great and the answer, or even deserves the job. I always thought Hackett was only running Marrone's offense. People think that they can twist words and turn them into something that was never said. EJ...I don't know. I'm hopeful but far from convinced. The one thing that gives me hope is that he did look his best when he controlled the game (2 minute drills). Hackett...I don't know. He could have been hamstrung by his HC and/or the limitations of his QBs (& o-line). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Forgive me, being stuck at work makes me pedantic. No worries. I wouldve harrassed you if I saw that. Sometimes I type fast and then enter it and when I see it again, an entire word I thought in my head is a totally different word. Not even a typo, just a different word. And I never proofread before I post, which is stupid too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I'll trust my eyes. I worry that this is Losman mach II -- lots of excuses for poor play, lots of blame attributed to the coaches, lots of decontextualized stats that made him look better than he clearly was, and lots of support for him because he seemed like a good guy. I sincerely hope I'm wrong. I mean that. I went back and watched a few of the early games and noticed several things. 1- EJ made solid reads and when he missed he missed low. More reps could help it but he might just be inaccuate 2- He was aggressive against the bears and Miami. Something happened against SD and he went into a shell. Not sure if it was him or old Douche 3- Forgot how athletic he is. I dont think EJ is a lost cause, but they should have a pretty solid plan B just in case. I sincerely hope the new coach just lets him rip it. He was much better when he was aggressive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 And EJ beat out Lewis, Dixon, Palmer & Tuel. EJ wins. EJ beat out Kolb cleanly, too, before Kolb succumbed to the evil black rubber matt, and then got a concussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 EJ beat out Kolb cleanly, too, before Kolb succumbed to the evil black rubber matt, and then got a concussion. I think that's debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I went back and watched a few of the early games and noticed several things. 1- EJ made solid reads and when he missed he missed low. More reps could help it but he might just be inaccuate 2- He was aggressive against the bears and Miami. Something happened against SD and he went into a shell. Not sure if it was him or old Douche 3- Forgot how athletic he is. I dont think EJ is a lost cause, but they should have a pretty solid plan B just in case. I sincerely hope the new coach just lets him rip it. He was much better when he was aggressive He brought the team down for an OT win against the Bears and could have against the Chargers, he just didn't. He played well against the Dolphins for the most part. Sammy had 8-117-1 or something like that, with fractured ribs, in is second game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's Tailor Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 And EJ beat out Lewis, Dixon, Palmer & Tuel. EJ wins. Sorry if unclear, my point was that even winning a QB competition doesn't necessarily prove anything if the competition isn't real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I think that's debatable. It was clear. It was reported all over. Mostly because Kolb was horrible versus EJ being great, but it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Sorry if unclear, my point was that even winning a QB competition doesn't necessarily prove anything if the competition isn't real. That's what I meant too. EJ never faced real competition. It was clear. It was reported all over. Mostly because Kolb was horrible versus EJ being great, but it happened. It may have been clear from some non contact passing drills, but Kolb never got the chance to truly compete with EJ when camp heated up for preseason games, Tough to say EJ beat him cleanly when Kolb was essentially out on August 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Put Romo on the 2014 Bills. Do we still miss the playoffs? Behind that O line and running game. Put EJ on 2014 Cowboys, full FO support, behind that O line and running game. Do they miss the playoffs. A QB needs support to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I think in that picture with Ryan, Marrone and Ryan were comparing who has the bigger man boobs, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Yes to the first question and no to the second question. Romo never looked that great to me without the powerhouse line And Rex dosent look that good without the big moobs Edited January 7, 2015 by mastershake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 That's what I meant too. EJ never faced real competition. It may have been clear from some non contact passing drills, but Kolb never got the chance to truly compete with EJ when camp heated up for preseason games, Tough to say EJ beat him cleanly when Kolb was essentially out on August 3rd. True. But very similar to this year when Tuel and Thad shat the bed in OTAs and early training camp, the Bills already knew they had regressed from last year before the first preseason game. Kolb, too, and EJ looked better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
respk Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 It's possible that EJ will be a good QB some day, that day isn't today. The Bills have the defense to get to the playoffs now and for maybe the next year or two. They can't waste another year thinking that EJ is ready. They must find a QB that is ready now to take them to the playoffs. EJ can be the developmental 3rd stringer or maybe the backup if he gets better. The Bills have to find a playoff caliber QB for the next season. I don't think they can wait to see if EJ is that guy and have him fail again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast*eddie Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Why would the Head Coach have to groom the quarterback ? What the heck are the duties of the QB coach ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 Why would the Head Coach have to groom the quarterback ? What the heck are the duties of the QB coach ?i would say it is more about continually developing an offense and personnel to fit the progressive nature of a raw QB than "grooming" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Maybe we can find a head coach by September ??? We only have 1500 more interviews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Tim Graham @ByTimGraham 4s5 seconds ago Sources: Bills have interviewed defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/01/06/sources-bills-interviewed-defensive-coordinator-jim-schwartz/ … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I get the need to attack and bash Doug Marrone. I do. I have enjoyed it myself. But let's not get delusional. Hackett's offense has been terrible the entire time he's been here. The marketing story for 2015 was he and Doug just needed a QB. After all, 9 wins was quite a feat with the CRAP they had to work with, right? Now it's "look! we had the answer all along! Hackett and EJ are right here!" Are you freaking kidding me? Are you guys gluttons for punishment or what? What part of "Marrone is clearly a control freak and in all likelihood stifled the offense" do you not understand? And what say you about the OL, his specialty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I am all for doing whatever is possible to give EJ a fighting chance but He must be able to go to training camp and WIN the QB job... In this offseason the Bills should have him working out with one of the QB developers out there... Get him some training from a professional who can help correct his flaws and by all means hire a dedicated QB coach for him and all the QB's on the roster... But if he wants to start he has to win the job - not have it handed to him... He should get plenty of time in preseason to show what he can do... It's not fair to "force" EJ onto the new HC, if that HC doesn't judge EJ to be capable of getting the job done... Coaches are paid to win football games - not nursemaid players who can't cut it... I'd be happy if EJ turned his game around and became the player we would all like him to be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negativo Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) If anything could make the already pathetic situation even more pathetic, hanging an EJ demand over the top of it should do it. UPDATE: @salmaiorana Source confirms #Bills want to meet with Rex Ryan. No date has been set yet. http://on.rocne.ws/1Bx23yy via @DandC Edited January 7, 2015 by negativo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Isn't it just as simple as: don't train a QB and OC at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Pete Carroll makes EJ a successful QB. Pete Carroll wasn't able to make Tarvaris Jackson or Clipboard Jesus good QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Says Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 In his entire professional career, Manuel has had one coach, one offensive coordinator, and NO quarterback coach. And his coordinator is a known knucklehead, and his head coach spent more time with the line. Yeah, it kind-of makes sense to say "Let's see if a different coach changes matters." Bills brought in TWO more offensive assistants this year:including QB Coach Todd Downing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Isn't it just as simple as: don't train a QB and OC at the same time? That would seemingly be a good start. Or if you are get a vet qb coach and lots of support on that side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Bills brought in TWO more offensive assistants this year:including QB Coach Todd Downing. None of that overcomes a HC who is more focused on avoiding mistakes than encouraging great play -- i.e., negative vs. positive reinforcement. I'm not saying we know for certain that's what happened in Buffalo, but it seems to be the most likely scenario (at least to me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleed Bills Blue Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 But there is also talent, size, attitude, work ethic, and raw talent. Talent AND raw talent too? That's amazing. It's like sex and raw sex...it's all good, and you definitely want both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garranimal Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Nice to see a voice of reason among so many....others. It should be a requirement that those advocating giving up on EJ must also state a credible plan for the QB position in 2015 and beyond. The guy was 2-2 this year, no? i see your point, but the problem with your argument is that it implies that not giving up on EJ is a credible plan for the QB position in 2015....which it may or may not be (most likely not statistically speaking). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I am hoping that Schwartz was one of the first people interviewed....He deserves that much at least CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 None of that overcomes a HC who is more focused on avoiding mistakes than encouraging great play -- i.e., negative vs. positive reinforcement. I'm not saying we know for certain that's what happened in Buffalo, but it seems to be the most likely scenario (at least to me). I like this. Not pointed out enough on here. I would also add that this follows along with creating more big "Splash" plays. Very hard to play it as conservative as this past season was played. Trying to spend 12-14 plays and 6-7 minutes moving the ball downfield slowly with little risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 @ProFootballTalk: Report: Doug Whaley telling Bills candidates that EJ Manuel's struggles were due to coaching http://t.co/3po2FJnKOj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I like this. Not pointed out enough on here. I would also add that this follows along with creating more big "Splash" plays. Very hard to play it as conservative as this past season was played. Trying to spend 12-14 plays and 6-7 minutes moving the ball downfield slowly with little risk. I like this point. EJ is probably never going to be a 70% passer. But why not run the ball and use play action to throw deep? Watkins is a deep threat. Flacco is not a great QB. But he makes big plays. Why can't we develop EJ in the same mold? Too many good things happen when you throw the ball down thefield. NFL coaches are wimps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 @ProFootballTalk: Report: Doug Whaley telling Bills candidates that EJ Manuel's struggles were due to coaching http://t.co/3po2FJnKOj I believe it CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 @ProFootballTalk: Report: Doug Whaley telling Bills candidates that EJ Manuel's struggles were due to coaching http://t.co/3po2FJnKOj Good. Too many offensive players regressed under the previous staff: Spiller, Johnson, Wood, Glenn, to not think coaching was a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The more I think about it, the more I think that Marrone may be one of the worst head coaches the Bills have ever had CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) I like this point. EJ is probably never going to be a 70% passer. But why not run the ball and use play action to throw deep? Watkins is a deep threat. Flacco is not a great QB. But he makes big plays. Why can't we develop EJ in the same mold? Too many good things happen when you throw the ball down thefield. NFL coaches are wimps. Correct as not every successful team had an elite QB at the helm. We say we don't want Adam Gase or pep Hamilton because they have great QBs and it is tough to evaluate how good they really are... How about a HC or OC who has established a good rushing attack? Made the playoffs with a less than great QB? Effectively developed a rookie QB into a winner? I don't need a guy who has a top 5, high flying offense to think they are going to make the best HC. The new HC inherits this roster - that's a lot of good ... And some challenge. Right now EJ is the QB and they have to ask what the HC's plan is. I am sure the plan is to bring in another vet as well that will fit the HC or oc's system. Edited January 7, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I like this point. EJ is probably never going to be a 70% passer. But why not run the ball and use play action to throw deep? Watkins is a deep threat. Flacco is not a great QB. But he makes big plays. Why can't we develop EJ in the same mold? Too many good things happen when you throw the ball down thefield. NFL coaches are wimps. Did you ever notice how often NE gets PI plays downfield on 3rd and very long? Other teams like BAL as well. We never took advantage of the rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanM.D. Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The more I think about it, the more I think that Marrone may be one of the worst head coaches the Bills have ever had CBF He really sounds like a complete jerk. I thought he did an 'ok' job. I was 'fine' with him coming back prior to all this. Now, I can't believe the guy was ever hired. All we're missing at this point is for Nate Hackett to come out and call Dougie an a##%^&*! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 He really sounds like a complete jerk. I thought he did an 'ok' job. I was 'fine' with him coming back prior to all this. Now, I can't believe the guy was ever hired. All we're missing at this point is for Nate Hackett to come out and call Dougie an a##%^&*! There is still time. If Marrone gets a HC gig and doesnt bring him along I wouldnt be surprised to hear him say something CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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