Misconceptions about Terry Pegula

[Prickly Pete]

He was not a good NFL team owner. He was loyal to the area, but, not a good NFL owner.

 

I just don't think that being a good businessman correlates to providing the best product possible.

[HopefulFuture]

I really don't understand all of the Pegula hate.

The guy is investing in the region via the Sports Franchises here. The Sabres are most likely going to be a playoff regular once the rebuild is complete and the youth gains maturity on the ice as a team.

 

The Bills are in a bit of a different category. They lack a true general at the helm on the field for their offense. They need some O pieces, patience as the products are built. It's been frustrating for fans all these years, but Pegula is the right kind of owner for sure.

[Bacchus44]

This IS Buffalo after all...

 

I can easily see the Sabres tanking intentionally and then falling to 3rd or 4th in the draft & not even getting McDavid or Eichel - wouldn't that be the Buffalo way?

[thebandit27]

This IS Buffalo after all...

 

I can easily see the Sabres tanking intentionally and then falling to 3rd or 4th in the draft & not even getting McDavid or Eichel - wouldn't that be the Buffalo way?

 

If they finish 30th then they cannot possibly pick lower than 2nd unless they choose to trade out.

[GG]

 

Oh I was wrong then, Pegula will snap his fingers and magically make everything better.

I stand corrected.

 

You are wrong if you are equating a turnaround in the NHL with one on the NFL. Totally different beasts.

 

But it's obvious that you have your mind all set, so why bother to remind you again that the Bills have a very good foundation to be a very good team, that's missing high quality coaching. I wonder if a new owner can fix that?

[GG]

 

Oh I was wrong then, Pegula will snap his fingers and magically make everything better.

I stand corrected.

 

You are wrong if you are equating a turnaround in the NHL with one on the NFL. Totally different beasts.

 

But it's obvious that you have your mind all set, so why bother to remind you again that the Bills have a very good foundation to be a very good team, that's missing high quality coaching. I wonder if a new owner can fix that?

[HOUSE]

This thread is not going well

 

 

 

 

--

Edited November 16, 2014 by HOUSE

[Saint Doug]

One mistake Terry made is he trusted darcy.

 

Someone here gets it. But it was a huge mistake and he continued defending it ("What has he [Darcy] done wrong?). As it turned out, this was a monumental mistake and the Sabres paid dearly. Despite a FA shopping spree, Reiger put together a team that was historically bad. Now, will Pegula learn from this blunder or will he blindly keep the Bills current FO intact? I guess time will tell.

 

You are wrong if you are equating a turnaround in the NHL with one on the NFL. Totally different beasts.

 

Very true. But Pegula originally wanted DR to run this turnaround if it wasn't for a near fan revolt, which would have been a huge mistake. Then, instead, he wanted to make LaFontaine the man in charge, someone with zero experience as a GM. Luckily for us, PLF turned him down. It was almost dumb luck we ended up with Tim Murray. I guess we'll have to see how this all plays out, but I hope Pegula learned something from the last 1-2 years.

[Augie]

New situation. Darcy (or anyone else) being incompetent does not make Whaley incompetent. I like Whaley and hope he stays. (No, I'm not saying Whaley is perfect, and you can like or hate the Sammy trade, but we have more talent than we've had in years.) Start from scratch and make the right decisions.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Augie

[Nitro]

Hockey rebuilds take 5 to 7 years. NFL can be turned around in 3 years. The Pegula's. I predict, will retain Marrone but Hackett and the offensive coaching staff will be sent packing. The Bills are close to making the playoffs. Sabres have a very bright future. EMBRACE the tank.

[K-9]

After reading the original post, I decided there was no need to sift through the thread. One of the most ill-informed posts I've seen in a while. I'll just leave it at that.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[26CornerBlitz]

After reading the original post, I decided there was no need to sift through the thread. One of the most ill-informed posts I've seen in a while. I'll just leave it at that.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

He was posting his own misconceptions. What's wrong with that?

[GG]

 

Very true. But Pegula originally wanted DR to run this turnaround if it wasn't for a near fan revolt, which would have been a huge mistake. Then, instead, he wanted to make LaFontaine the man in charge, someone with zero experience as a GM. Luckily for us, PLF turned him down. It was almost dumb luck we ended up with Tim Murray. I guess we'll have to see how this all plays out, but I hope Pegula learned something from the last 1-2 years.

 

A few things to remember what really happened. Sabres ere thought to have been close to contending and it was a matter of getting a few players. Too bad for them Leino was the best available in FA that year. Note how Sabres were able to land Erhoff and Reggie ahead of other teams. Those moves aren't anything the old Sabres or old Bills used to do.

 

Let's not ignore that Ruff is one of the better coaches in the league.

 

Pegulas early moves made a lot of sense at the time. Unfortunately it didn't work out. So he did the next best thing and moved on.

 

Btw what are you talking about lafontaine turning him down? He was never going to be the GM.

[1B4IDie]

After reading the original post, I decided there was no need to sift through the thread. One of the most ill-informed posts I've seen in a while. I'll just leave it at that.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Thanks now I know that Pegula Dust is real and when he sprinkles it all over the Bills, they will magically win games.

[dubs]

After reading the original post, I decided there was no need to sift through the thread. One of the most ill-informed posts I've seen in a while. I'll just leave it at that.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I'll summarize it for you.

 

OP believes that you either have to be very doubtful about the Pegulas ability to improve the Bills because the Sabres are in last place and won't contend until 2019. If you don't agree with that, you believe in something the OP made up called "Pegula Dust". Apparently it's a mystic potion that improves sports teams.

 

But there is no in between. One or the other. Don't agree, you're taking Pegula dust.

 

You're caught up.

[mdk]

You do realize the Sabres are purposely tanking, They have the number 1 talent pool and have a pretty good chance of getting the #1 pick. Which means Connor McDavid. This has been planned.

 

I can't believe there are people that don't know this.

 

"Purposely tanking" night after night... on whose authority? Having said that, later in the season with the #1 pick in sight maybe I could see some 'experimentation' ;-)

[Wayne Cubed]

"Purposely tanking" night after night... on whose authority? Having said that, later in the season with the #1 pick in sight maybe I could see some 'experimentation' ;-)

 

Not to bring this thread back to life, but yes "purposely tanking" in the sense that the team has absolutely no talent. I'm sure they try and give it their all every night. But look at who Murray has brought in. The Sabres are the least talented team in the NHL and Murray set it up that way to "tank" and acquire talent through high draft picks. Very similar to the Colts, if you need an NFL analogy.

[4merper4mer]

 

 

Not to bring this thread back to life, but yes "purposely tanking" in the sense that the team has absolutely no talent. I'm sure they try and give it their all every night. But look at who Murray has brought in. The Sabres are the least talented team in the NHL and Murray set it up that way to "tank" and acquire talent through high draft picks. Very similar to the Colts, if you need an NFL analogy.

 

Let's hope McDavid doesn't stink like the most overhyped bad QB in history, Andrew Luck.

[nucci]

I know exactly how the NHL draft lottery works. The team that finishes with the fewest points gets better odds at the number 1 pick. I know it doesn't gurantee it, but you have to at least finish last to get those odds. Even if they don't finish last they have 3 picks in the first round.

 

You completely ignored the fact that they have the number 1 talent pool according to mutiple NHL sources. Add in the 3 first rounds picks and even if they don't get Connor McDavid they are going to be absolutely LOADED with talent.

 

This has been planned.

If you look back we've had this for the past 10 years or so.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

If you look back we've had this for the past 10 years or so.

That's not remotely close to being true.

[1B4IDie]

 

Not to bring this thread back to life, but yes "purposely tanking" in the sense that the team has absolutely no talent. I'm sure they try and give it their all every night. But look at who Murray has brought in. The Sabres are the least talented team in the NHL and Murray set it up that way to "tank" and acquire talent through high draft picks. Very similar to the Colts, if you need an NFL analogy.

So you are saying the Buffalo Bills will have a better on field product because Terry Pegula is the type of owner that condones wasting a season by tanking. Interesting.

[Wayne Cubed]

If you look back we've had this for the past 10 years or so.

 

Huh?

 

2012/13 - Prospects ranked 13th

2011/12 - Prospects ranked 15th

2010/11 - Prospects ranked outside the top 10

2009/2010 - Prospects ranked outside the top 10

 

2014/15 - Prospects ranked 1st, and this is before having 3 first round picks in the draft.

 

So you are saying the Buffalo Bills will have a better on field product because Terry Pegula is the type of owner that condones wasting a season by tanking. Interesting.

 

That's not what I'm saying at all. Go read your OP, you brought Terry Pegula's handling of the Sabres into the discussion.

 

My point has been all along that Mr. Pegula is doing what is necessary to make the Sabres a better team. I never said he would do the same thing with the BIlls. In fact I said Apples to Oranges. But carry on trying to compare how a team in the NHL is run and how a new owner of a NFL team will run.

[NDBUFFCUSEFAN]

So you are saying the Buffalo Bills will have a better on field product because Terry Pegula is the type of owner that condones wasting a season by tanking. Interesting.

What was the alternative? Roy, Pommers, Vanek, Miller and Ott all wanted out so they got great value for them. None of them wanted to be part of a rebuild! This plan is way better than the previous regime that would hope for an 8th place finish and a first round exit.

 

Please tell me what the Sabres should have done? If your answer is to sign a bunch of aging Vets to make a run at the 8th playoff spot then you are lost.

[fridge]

Fans citing prospect rankings as facts has to be the saddest thing I've come across here.

[GG]

Fans citing prospect rankings as facts has to be the saddest thing I've come across here.

 

Not quite as bad as fans misunderstanding the discussion.

[1B4IDie]

What was the alternative? Roy, Pommers, Vanek, Miller and Ott all wanted out so they got great value for them. None of them wanted to be part of a rebuild! This plan is way better than the previous regime that would hope for an 8th place finish and a first round exit.

 

Please tell me what the Sabres should have done? If your answer is to sign a bunch of aging Vets to make a run at the 8th playoff spot then you are lost.

You people keep master debating about Sabres move.

My point is simply Pegula can't snap his fingers and make the 2015 Buffalo Bills on field product better.

You can draw comparisons to his ownership style from looking at the Sabres; Absolutely you can. The only logic for not drawing the comparison is based on denial that the Bills have a long rebuilding process filled with more Losses than wins in the near future. "Oh the Sabres are totally different cause you see even though they were a few points out of 8th place and a playoff seed when Pegula took over they totally sucked where as the Bills are a few wins out of the 6th seed and don't totally suck, It is a totally different ballgame" Is the best explanation that anyone can draw as to why the Sabres rebuild will be totally different than the Bills. Corner stone players like Kyle Williams, Mario Williams CJ, Fred Jackson won't be here long. Just like Vanek, Miller, and Pommers.

 

There seems to be a belief in Pegula dust evidenced by nothing. That somehow the mere change in ownership in of its own will make the Buffalo Bills a better team on the field of play.

 

The Bills on the field are stuck in the mud and need a plan to get out.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing what the plan will entail. In no way do I believe Pegula is a bad person, bad businessman, or bad citizen. I like the guy.

 

 

Any expectations for rapid improvements in on the field performance by the Buffalo Bills are based solely on imagination and speculation.

 

As of right now there is no plan for the Buffalo Bills except status quo.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Why So Serious?

[May Day 10]

you and I do not have any clue what the current specific plans are for the Bills. I feel pretty confident in my feeling that they didnt spent $1.4 Billion to go with the status quo and have a couple meaningful games in December in a 15 year span.

 

Its not just the prospect pool either. It is everything surrounding the Sabres, the arena, development of the area, money in the ancillary un-salary-capped areas such as scouting. They are in the long game to have sustained success. Not hoping for lightning to strike and the Sabres to someday make the playoffs one season (like we are currently with the Bills). Their goal for the Sabres (and I would assume its translatable to the Bills) is for long term and sustained success at or near the top of the league.

 

There is no "dust" to make this happen... but there is the strong desire to make this long term high end the biggest priority by a mile and not turning a profit if necessary.

 

 

 

If you are talking in terms of 2015... Im not sure if its salvageable without a QB answer. QBs can be had though if they have the right people looking and there is desire. Arizona got Palmer, KC got Smith, Denver got Manning... But anyways, I see this as the start. Pegula hasnt been able to do anything because the team was above .500 and that would be foolish (at least he said so in an interview). At the end of the season, I expect/hope/want a power-broker to be installed at the top and that is the beginning.

 

 

So I agree with you on "rapid" improvement. Long term plans is what has me thrilled. The cycle here (should) be broken.

Edited November 17, 2014 by May Day 10

[chris heff]

I don't know anything about the Sabres. What I do know is that because of the Pagulas the Bills are staying in Buffalo. I don't mean to speak ill of the dead, but Ralph Wilson was not a good owner. He was good for the league. Wilson got lucky a few times, like when Polian became GM by default. I have no idea what the Pegulas will do, but what ever it is it will be better.

[CodeMonkey]

I don't know anything about the Sabres. What I do know is that because of the Pagulas the Bills are staying in Buffalo.

Correct. No one was pissing and moaning about the Pegulas when they thought the Bills would be leaving the area. In my opinion the Pegulas will be mostly hands off when it comes to the Bills in terms of personnel decisions etc. Pegula is a smart enough businessman to know the best way to be successful is to hire the best people you can and let them do their jobs. Hockey is his sport, but he cares a lot about the Buffalo area and made sure the Bills will be staying for the foreseeable future.

[1B4IDie]

I don't know anything about the Sabres. What I do know is that because of the Pagulas the Bills are staying in Buffalo. I don't mean to speak ill of the dead, but Ralph Wilson was not a good owner. He was good for the league. Wilson got lucky a few times, like when Polian became GM by default. I have no idea what the Pegulas will do, but what ever it is it will be better.

right on.

 

 

You are correct when you say "this post."

 

So I agree with you on "rapid" improvement. Long term plans is what has me thrilled. The cycle here (should) be broken.

 

Thank you and this is the point.

 

There is a misconception that Pegula is going to fix the Bills on the field performance in the short term.

 

I don't see any reason to believe that.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Beerball

[thebandit27]

You people keep master debating about Sabres move.

My point is simply Pegula can't snap his fingers and make the 2015 Buffalo Bills on field product better.

 

There is not a single person in the universe that has said this...anywhere...ever. You are much smarter than this line of logic.

 

You can draw comparisons to his ownership style from looking at the Sabres; Absolutely you can. The only logic for not drawing the comparison is based on denial that the Bills have a long rebuilding process filled with more Losses than wins in the near future. "Oh the Sabres are totally different cause you see even though they were a few points out of 8th place and a playoff seed when Pegula took over they totally sucked where as the Bills are a few wins out of the 6th seed and don't totally suck, It is a totally different ballgame" Is the best explanation that anyone can draw as to why the Sabres rebuild will be totally different than the Bills. Corner stone players like Kyle Williams, Mario Williams CJ, Fred Jackson won't be here long. Just like Vanek, Miller, and Pommers.

 

Again: this is the NFL. It doesn't take 5-7 years to turn around a franchise if the right people (i.e. coach, GM) are in charge. There are countless examples like Indianapolis, Philadelphia, Detroit, etc.

 

The NFL is vastly different...it typically takes years to change the culture of an organization. Again, countless examples in Chicago, Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, etc.

 

There's also no reason to think that Mario, Kyle, and Fred will be gone any time soon...that's basically a leap in logic with zero basis in fact whatsoever. Mario has 3 years left on his deal after 2014, Fred just signed an extension, and Kyle is under contract through 2016.

 

There seems to be a belief in Pegula dust evidenced by nothing. That somehow the mere change in ownership in of its own will make the Buffalo Bills a better team on the field of play.

 

I realize that the "Pegula dust" thing is an effort to be cheeky; I just don't see a single thing that anyone has said that is remotely in the spirit of what you're trying to be cheeky about. I think that the majority of folks expect the new owner(s) to make some much-needed changes like hiring a progressive head coach and making key free agent signings. If that's your definition of "Pegula dust", then yes, rational people should indeed believe in it.

 

The Bills on the field are stuck in the mud and need a plan to get out.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing what the plan will entail. In no way do I believe Pegula is a bad person, bad businessman, or bad citizen. I like the guy.

 

I guess many of us are confused as to why you're seemingly downtrodden about his ability to turn the operation around...

 

Any expectations for rapid improvements in on the field performance by the Buffalo Bills are based solely on imagination and speculation.

 

As are any expectations for the team to remain merely on the cusp of being a playoff contender.

 

As of right now there is no plan for the Buffalo Bills except status quo.

 

There is, quite literally, no possibility that this is true. Unless by "right now" you mean for the remainder of the season, in which case, yes, that's true. However, I'm quite certain there will be organizational accountability moving forward.

[May Day 10]

there was a "Pegula-dust-esque" vibe to the Sabres in 2011. He came in, the Sabres went immediately from crappy to unbeatable... and should have beat a much better Philly team in the playoffs until Miller melted down in game 6. He told the media that he wanted their help to only write positive stories and thought he could actually pull that off. He bragged how he never had to fire employees and they performed very well as long as they were happy. He though Ruff and Regier were in 8th place... so logically Ruff and Regier in 8th place + $$$ = cups.

 

It was all incredibly naive and he took a lot of lumps for that, learned a lot of lessons and eventually pulled the plug... which is what he should have done in 2011. I would think that the Sabres' experience hardened him a lot and prepared him to make tough and radical changes.

Edited November 17, 2014 by May Day 10

[CodeMonkey]

I realize that the "Pegula dust" thing is an effort to be cheeky; I just don't see a single thing that anyone has said that is remotely in the spirit of what you're trying to be cheeky about. I think that the majority of folks expect the new owner(s) to make some much-needed changes like hiring a progressive head coach and making key free agent signings. If that's your definition of "Pegula dust", then yes, rational people should indeed believe in it.

As far as I know, the Pegulas do not have a football background at all (but I could be wrong). I know that he and his family have been hockey fans, and Sabres fans in particular, for a long time. I would not expect them to hire a coach, or make any free agent signings, or even be involved in the process until it comes time to sign someone. They are apparently hiring a consultant who does have football knowledge, which in my opinion is very smart and may give the Bills the advantage over the Sabres.

[wnysteel]

He is not a hatchet man.

 

The axe is being finely honed as we speak........

 

you do realize, those two statements are in juxtaposition to each other?

[thebandit27]

 

As far as I know, the Pegulas do not have a football background at all (but I could be wrong). I know that he and his family have been hockey fans, and Sabres fans in particular, for a long time. I would not expect them to hire a coach, or make any free agent signings, or even be involved in the process until it comes time to sign someone. They are apparently hiring a consultant who does have football knowledge, which in my opinion is very smart and may give the Bills the advantage over the Sabres.

 

I don't mean him specifically...I'm more referring to the idea that he'll look to make strides with the organization by adding quality people.

 

If he does hire a consultant, I expect that to be good news for Whaley; bad news for Marrone.

[All_Pro_Bills]

All we know to this point is that Terry & Kim Pegula purchased the Bills from the Wilson estate for $1.4B and have made a commitment to keep the team in Buffalo. We know of TP's work to date with the Sabres but comparing that experience with the Bills probably isn't going to give any clues of where things are headed with the Bills.

 

We've heard about the potential hiring of some football 'consultant' but that is just specuation at the moment. My suspicion is the evaluation process of the front office, the coaching staff, adminstrative staff, game operations, the players, etc., is already underway but nothing is going to be made public prior to the end of the season. I think there's a good collective understanding of what ails the Bills on this board and I can't help but believe that TP/KP are observing some of the same things our fellow board members are seeing on and off the field. And that they will conclude the weaknesses that need to be addressed are consistent with what most identify here, OC, HQ, QB, OL, to name a few.

 

I expect the Pegula's will not be hesitant as Mr. Wilson was to spend funds on top-tier coaches or delegate power and authority to competent personnel 'experts' that will be brought in to manage the front office. So all options are open and any previous conceptions candidates have had in the past with regards to ownership will no longer exist. Money/pay level shouldn't be an issue and mostly how attractive the job is will matter. This I would think would be the first steps and it would happen pretty quickly after the season unless there are candidates of playoff teams they want to consider. Around the New Year we should see things start to happen.

Edited November 17, 2014 by All_Pro_Bills

[Jauronimo]

How many NFL owners worked their to the top of the organization? Real football men.

 

None.

[Mr. WEO]

Do they still televise hockey?

[plenzmd1]

Do they still televise hockey?

 

Saturdays game was great!

[1B4IDie]

 

 

 

 

There is, quite literally, no possibility that this is true. Unless by "right now" you mean for the remainder of the season, in which case, yes, that's true. However, I'm quite certain there will be organizational accountability moving forward.

 

I guess that is the heart of the matter.

 

I do not agree. I do not see any reason besides an article with an unnamed source that there will be a football person brought in.

 

Only time will tell.

 

I measure by results. So I will believe it when I see it.

there was a "Pegula-dust-esque" vibe to the Sabres in 2011. He came in, the Sabres went immediately from crappy to unbeatable... and should have beat a much better Philly team in the playoffs until Miller melted down in game 6. He told the media that he wanted their help to only write positive stories and thought he could actually pull that off. He bragged how he never had to fire employees and they performed very well as long as they were happy. He though Ruff and Regier were in 8th place... so logically Ruff and Regier in 8th place + $$$ = cups.

 

It was all incredibly naive and he took a lot of lumps for that, learned a lot of lessons and eventually pulled the plug... which is what he should have done in 2011. I would think that the Sabres' experience hardened him a lot and prepared him to make tough and radical changes.

 

I guess we will see if Pegula lets Branden/Whaley/Marrone play this thing out or if he inserts a Football man.

 

No one knows but I don't think it is a forgone conclusion. As much we would all like that to happen.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Why So Serious?