Round 2 : Sale of the team

[thebandit27]

Bandit....Gracias for answering my earlier (now locked) questions. Much appreciated.

 

No problemo...just wish I knew more at this point (don't we all?).

 

Like I've been saying though, this is a fun time to be a fan.

[Jauronimo]

I have to assume this is some sort of joke, right? You are right about one thing, the trust will never sell another team unless Ralph dies again.

 

Perhaps you meant "Morgan Stanley" instead of "the trust". In which case, if they sell the team for a record amount of $$ for an NFL franchise (which is likely) why wouldn't they be used again? The process only seems screwed up because it is so public, and because the information leaking is incomplete or downright inaccurate. Oh, and because fans have no idea of how these things work,

Yes, it was a joke. A little parody of what we've been subjected to in these threads. See my prior posts on the subject where I've repeatedly tried to explain that the process is proceeding as planned and in a manner not too dissimilar from any other M&A deal.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Jauronimo

[jimmy10]

Seems like Morgan Stanley is the group to blame more so than the trust

 

And I wonder how they're really supposed to stop leaks from occurring anyway. This is a highly scrutinized, unusual event, an NFL team on the public auction block with countless people involved when you come down to it. I'd honestly be more surprised if leaks WEREN'T happening.

[Jauronimo]

And I wonder how they're really supposed to stop leaks from occurring anyway. This is a highly scrutinized, unusual event, an NFL team on the public auction block with countless people involved when you come down to it. I'd honestly be more surprised if leaks WEREN'T happening.

Its not even leaks that are causing the hysteria. Its a fundamental misunderstanding from the reporting aspect or a deliberate attempt to make the bid process look more intriguing and soap opera like than it really is. Fans are reacting in kind to the Kryk diaries which make no attempt to report developments in the context of the acquisition process.

[BillnutinHouston]

One thing is certain at this point. The egg is going to be all over everyone's face when this thing is said and done. The Trust will never be hired to sell another NFL team after bidders start leaking details of just how badly this process was run.

Disagree. MS and Proskauer can point to specific directions from the Wilson Trust that have hamstrung MS' ability to lure scores of bidders in this particular transaction. Honestly, by seeking assurances that the team will be kept in Buffalo, the Trust (not the hired hands) has limited the field to only a very specific type of buyer.

 

If the field of competitors is limited, what other tools does MS have at it's disposal to maximize the sale price - other than leaks?

 

Edited August 8, 2014 by BillnutinHouston

[BigBuff423]

 

Over the next month, qualified bidders will be doing their due diligence and meeting with the trust. Once bidders have had the opportunity to review the team's financial statements, which they were just issued, they will submit formal bids. This phase will take at least 3 weeks according to the AP. After formal bids have been submitted, the trust will deliberate for as long as they see fit. No amount of complaining is going to change the speed at which the process moves along.

 

Yeah, well complaining is what I felt like doing and will damn well do it if I want...as far as the process, I assume it will take longer than I want it to, but I just would rather not hear about it every single day because it continuously brings up the naysayers and pessimists about how the BILLS are moving, or there's a conspiracy to get them to Toronto or whatever the hell their tin foil hats are telling them...but, and you don't know me or follow my posts, I'm rarely one to complain about nearly anything, so forgive me the few moments to do so about listening to every time a new bidder enters the fray and what their intentions may be, when nearly all involved simply want Pegula to pay a fair market value and assume the team, as it would appear that's the end game anyways...

[jimmy10]

Its not even leaks that are causing the hysteria. Its a fundamental misunderstanding from the reporting aspect or a deliberate attempt to make the bid process look more intriguing and soap opera like than it really is. Fans are reacting in kind to the Kryk diaries which make no attempt to report developments in the context of the acquisition process.

 

Oh, well yeah man, that's the nature of news reporting and social media nowadays. Kinda like how everybody freaks out over every single incomplete pass EJ throws in training camp. So many of us wait breathlessly for minute-by-minute updates, and various media (reporters, insiders, friends-of-friends), are happy to oblige us, dishing it out by the heaping spoonful, accuracy, context and perspective be damned. And that is not to disparage anybody passing along such info, especially among present company on this board.

 

I'll admit, I'm hitting F5 as much as anybody here, on Twitter, and elsewhere. But I'm also trying real hard to keep a 30,000 foot view of the whole thing.

[BRAWNDO]

http://bills.buffalo...r-bigger-group/

 

Gundlach and Kelly want to partner with a bigger group.

 

Met with Bills Trust yesterday to discuss

Edited August 8, 2014 by BRAWNDO

[FluffHead]

@ByTimGraham: Sources: Jim Kelly, Jeff Gundlach meet with Bills trust, want to partner with bigger group http://t.co/PFZDHS2255

 

Subtle shot at john Kryk in there. Easy there grahammypants.

Edited August 8, 2014 by FluffHead

[Kirby Jackson]

 

Its not even leaks that are causing the hysteria. Its a fundamental misunderstanding from the reporting aspect or a deliberate attempt to make the bid process look more intriguing and soap opera like than it really is. Fans are reacting in kind to the Kryk diaries which make no attempt to report developments in the context of the acquisition process.

You are dead on Juaronimo!! Things are being reported as "developments" instead of "steps." That was has people freaking out. There is a perception that there is no direction or plan and that it is constantly changing. The reality is they are just proceeding through the process.

[The Dean]

Yes, it was a joke. A little parody of what we've been subjected to in these threads. See my prior posts on the subject where I've repeatedly tried to explain that the process is proceeding as planned and in a manner not too dissimilar from any other M&A deal.

 

Gotcha. I thought that might be the case. My bad for not recognizing your previous posts.

[Jauronimo]

Oh, well yeah man, that's the nature of news reporting and social media nowadays. Kinda like how everybody freaks out over every single incomplete pass EJ throws in training camp. So many of us wait breathlessly for minute-by-minute updates, and various media (reporters, insiders, friends-of-friends), are happy to oblige us, dishing it out by the heaping spoonful, accuracy, context and perspective be damned. And that is not to disparage anybody passing along such info, especially among present company on this board.

 

I'll admit, I'm hitting F5 as much as anybody here, on Twitter, and elsewhere. But I'm also trying real hard to keep a 30,000 foot view of the whole thing.

I'm just as guilty. I tune in everyday to see the latest news and rumors surrounding the process. JW's articles have been the best in terms of framing the latest leaks, scoops, news in the context of the process, from what I've seen.

[Justice]

 

 

I said in the prior now closed thread that the constant leaks about the higher number of bids without a single bidder being identified beyond the known bids is pure media driven and likely, if anything, the Trust and MS trying to drum up more bids AND increase existing potential bids by using the media to suggest there is a higher number of bidders. We're talking millions of extra dollars in potentially higher bids is someone, say T-money, feels like he has to beat more bidders. And because the trust can pretty much do as it please, it can speak with the media and float ideas out there in the hopes of driving up bids.

 

The question I would ask is, why have these sources, supposed from within, leaked the Pegula bid but no other names have surfaced? Because there likely aren't others and naming names would be a lie and immediately refuted by those named.

 

There will be 4 final bindings bids and T-money wins this thing. End of story, stayin.

 

I agree. These mystery bidders are a complete fabrication to drive up the price. Just look at the sequence of events that led up to these unknown bidders. First we heard JBJ and Trump violated the NDA and then we heard about the new bidders. When names don't get leaked it's because people are afraid to violate the NDA, but in reality there are no new bidders. Maybe there's a couple, such as the guy from LA and Golisano, but that's it. I doubt there's 3 more groups out there.

[KDIGGZ]

thank god for Pegula. if this was Jim Kelly's master plan all this time then we would have been in big trouble if he was our only hope

[Jauronimo]

Gotcha. I thought that might be the case. My bad for not recognizing your previous posts.

You were right, joke all the way. Don't waste your time with my previous posts. My posting has become rather unsound.

[thebandit27]

I agree. These mystery bidders are a complete fabrication to drive up the price. Just look at the sequence of events that led up to these unknown bidders. First we heard JBJ and Trump violated the NDA and then we heard about the new bidders. When names don't get leaked it's because people are afraid to violate the NDA, but in reality there are no new bidders. Maybe there's a couple, such as the guy from LA and Golisano, but that's it. I doubt there's 3 more groups out there.

 

I don't know anything about a guy from LA, but there's one other group out there as Kirby has said. Nobody has mentioned who it is that I've seen, and they're for real--not the lead dog mind you (still Pegula), but very serious about the team.

[The Dean]

I'm just as guilty. I tune in everyday to see the latest news and rumors surrounding the process. JW's articles have been the best in terms of framing the latest leaks, scoops, news in the context of the process, from what I've seen.

 

Wawrow is a pro and old-school, in that he reports. He is consistently the guy who will give you the straight story without adornment.

 

I'll give some credit to Graham and Kryk for staying on top of the story. But those guys like to engage in hype, controversy (sometimes forced), speculation, etc to drive readership.

 

And yes, I am guilty of checking in to get more information. The difference between us and some of the others is, we don't react to every bit of information. I don't know how some of these guys keep their sanity when ever bit of "information" makes them crazy.

Edited August 8, 2014 by The Dean

[Dean Cain]

A few thoughts:

 

- I don't think a new stadium would crest the $1B mark. Probably looking more in the $800M range. This wouldn't be AT&T or Levi; probably closer to LucasOil.

- If it's El Pegual, he won't carry much (if any) debt load on the stadium. He could finance his portion (let's say it's $400M) in cash.

- Don't forget about the NFL's G4 fund for stadium construction. The funding there is very low interest.

 

There is a reason Morgan Stanley is involved in the sale. My question is; do they make money off of the financed portion of the sale price, or take a small percentage off the sale price like a realtor selling a home?

 

Imagine the commission on a $1.3 billion dollar sale. Damn!

[jahnyc]

Morgan Stanley will get a fee on the total transaction value, including incurrence of debt to finance the purchase price.

[Jauronimo]

There is a reason Morgan Stanley is involved in the sale. My question is; do they make money off of the financed portion of the sale price, or take a small percentage off the sale price like a realtor selling a home?

 

Imagine the commission on a $1.3 billion dollar sale. Damn!

Often times both.

 

Fee structures vary, but there's likely flat fees for MS's services, potentially a % of the total deal or payment depending on certain ranges of deal size. Investment banks will often help the acquiring party secure financing and make out on that end of the deal too. These guys are one stop shops.

[TXBILLSFAN]

It's impossible as a Buffalo Bills fan not to follow this story, it's too important.

 

I think most of us have accepted, gleefully I might add, that the team is staying.

 

I think now, it's about finding the best of the owners that are left in the bidding process for this team, the organization and the city of Buffalo.

 

To me that's Pegula, hands down.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

I don't know anything about a guy from LA, but there's one other group out there as Kirby has said. Nobody has mentioned who it is that I've seen, and they're for real--not the lead dog mind you (still Pegula), but very serious about the team.

Now, Kelly and Gundlach are looking to partner with a larger group. If it is the group that we are talking about they have a legit chance.

[thebandit27]

Now, Kelly and Gundlach are looking to partner with a larger group. If it is the group that we are talking about they have a legit chance.

 

Now THAT would be crazy!

[Overseas Bills Fan]

As long as the new owner is:

 

A) committed to keeping the Bills in Buffalo

B) committed to putting a winner on the field regardless if the player is a choir boy or a a showboater

C) understands the game of football

D) doesn't micromanage the team like Al Davis did and Jerry Jones does

 

I can accept anyone, even someone as odious and disgusting at "The Donald."

[Kelly the Dog]

Now, Kelly and Gundlach are looking to partner with a larger group. If it is the group that we are talking about they have a legit chance.

I can see why they would want Kelly. I see no reason they would want Gundlach, unless he just liked the idea of being a part owner with absolutely no real say, and they didn't mind throwing him a bone.

[Tyrod's Tailor]

As long as the new owner is:

 

A) committed to keeping the Bills in Buffalo

B) committed to putting a winner on the field regardless if the player is a choir boy or a a showboater

C) understands the game of football

D) doesn't micromanage the team like Al Davis did and Jerry Jones does

 

I can accept anyone, even someone as odious and disgusting at "The Donald."

 

Well he would fail at A C and D, and would probably fail at B.

[Kelly the Dog]

The good part about it for us would be Kelly and Gundlachs insistence the team stays after the lease is up or else they wouldn't join.

[The Dean]

Now, Kelly and Gundlach are looking to partner with a larger group. If it is the group that we are talking about they have a legit chance.

Now THAT would be crazy!

I can see why they would want Kelly. I see no reason they would want Gundlach, unless he just liked the idea of being a part owner with absolutely no real say, and they didn't mind throwing him a bone.

 

OK, I have a question for you guys, I just don't quite know how to ask it, or what exactly the question is, specifically, or that is even one question. (How that for a preamble?)

 

I believe the NFL prefers to have a single owner, but is willing to accept a group where the lead guy has X percent of the team. Of course, they don't get to choose who gets the first shot at buying the team. But I can't help but wonder how a group with Kelly, Gundlach and now a guy over Gundlach is a better situation for approval than Pegula, the quintessential "one owner" guy. So does The Trust consider something like that? If The Trust sells to this conglomerate (I know) instead of Pegula, will the NFL owners balk?

 

I'm sure there are better questions there, but I'm in the middle of something here and can't focus my question. Try to make it interesting!

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

 

 

OK, I have a question for you guys, I just don't quite know how to ask it, or what exactly the question is, specifically, or that is even one question. (How that for a preamble?)

 

I believe the NFL prefers to have a single owner, but is willing to accept a group where the lead guy has X percent of the team. Of course, they don't get to choose who gets the first shot at buying the team. But I can't help but wonder how a group with Kelly, Gundlach and now a guy over Gundlach is a better situation for approval than Pegula, the quintessential "one owner" guy. So does The Trust consider something like that? If The Trust sells to this conglomerate (I know) instead of Pegula, will the NFL owners balk?

 

I'm sure there are better questions there, but I'm in the middle of something here and can't focus my question. Try to make it interesting!

The NFL does what's best for them. The one owner thing is a generically true statement. The group with the cash would have one "principal owner" designated that deals with the Nfl and has the vote and attends league meetings. That would not be Kelly and would not be Gundlach unless he is the 30% guy! which seems unlikely. Kelly would just be the ambassador.

 

I'm sure the NFL would love Jim Kelly to be part of an ownership group. He's great PR for the league. It's just easier if it's one guy making all decisions and having all of the money and not having to go through votes, and one guy that voices his opinion and attends events for the team. I see no reason whatsoever the NFL does not love El Pegual.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Dont be surprised when Golisano, Gundlach , and Kelly group win the bid. At least I wouldnt be surprised.

Edited August 8, 2014 by TheTruthHurts

[Mango]

Essentially nothing involving the actual sale has to do with PR, at least on the Bills/trust's end. Perhaps at this point JBJ and Trump are playing the PR game, but that is related to their "brands" and not directly tied to buying the Bills.

 

There have always been a decent number of suitors (more than 4 most often mentioned). Some of the sources and reporters may be caught up in the distinction btw bidder/suitor/"interested party."

 

I heard on good authority that Jimbo is NOT aligned with Gundlach, so it will be interesting to see whose group Jimbo joins, if it is ever revealed.

 

My guess is if it wasn't trump, it was almost always Pegula. He is a close family friend of Pegula's other half/business partner in the oil business.

[Billy in 4C]

What's funny is everyone has been in love with Pegula as owner. If a Gundlach/Kelly/ potentially Golisano group steps up will everyone be disappointed? Will people start rooting against Jim Kelly? Or if Pegula gets it - are people upset he took the team away from Kelly? I'm happy either way - just keep away from JBJ.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Billy in 4C

[BuffaloBill]

 

Over the next month, qualified bidders will be doing their due diligence and meeting with the trust. Once bidders have had the opportunity to review the team's financial statements, which they were just issued, they will submit formal bids. This phase will take at least 3 weeks according to the AP. After formal bids have been submitted, the trust will deliberate for as long as they see fit. No amount of complaining is going to change the speed at which the process moves along.

 

Yes, plus the trust doesn't owe anything to the public. My hunch is that for tax purposes they want to know what the deal is before the end of the year. Even that likely does not compel the trust to hold to any particular dates.

[KDIGGZ]

What's funny is everyone has been in love with Pegula as owner. If a Gundlach/Kelly/ potentially Golisano group steps up will everyone be disappointed? Will people start rooting against Jim Kelly? Or if Pegula gets it - are people upset he took the team away from Kelly? I'm happy either way - just keep away from JBJ.

I'll be disappointed if Pegula doesn't win. I feel like with his vast resources he is the kind of guy that we need to lead this team and this city. He can make a big difference in our community. We are already seeing it with what he has already done with the Sabres and the Harbor Center. Just imagine what he could do with the Bills and a downtown stadium/empire

[Nanker]

One thing is certain at this point. The egg is going to be all over everyone's face when this thing is said and done. The Trust will never be hired to sell another NFL team after bidders start leaking details of just how badly this process was run.

 

There is a reason Morgan Stanley is involved in the sale. My question is; do they make money off of the financed portion of the sale price, or take a small percentage off the sale price like a realtor selling a home?

 

Imagine the commission on a $1.3 billion dollar sale. Damn!

That's more than I make in a week.

From wikipedia here's a list of NFL team owners.

Note there are lots of teams with multiple owners (flagged with a single dagger).

Franchise Owner Year
Arizona Cardinals Bill Bidwill 1 1972
Atlanta Falcons Arthur Blank† 1 2004
Baltimore Ravens Steve Bisciotti† 1 2004
Buffalo Bills Estate of Ralph Wilson† 3 [1] 2014
Carolina Panthers Jerry Richardson††† 2 1993
Chicago Bears Virginia Halas McCaskey† 3 1983
Cincinnati Bengals Mike Brown3 1991
Cleveland Browns Jimmy Haslam 2012
Dallas Cowboys Jerry Jones 1989
Denver Broncos Pat Bowlen†6 1984
Detroit Lions Martha Ford†[2] 2014
Green Bay Packers Green Bay Packers, Inc. 5 1923
Houston Texans Robert C. McNair† 2 1999
Indianapolis Colts Jim Irsay 1997
Jacksonville Jaguars Shahid Khan 2012
Kansas City Chiefs Clark Hunt†† 3 2006
Miami Dolphins Stephen M. Ross† 2008
Minnesota Vikings Zygi Wilf† 2005
New England Patriots Robert Kraft 1994
New Orleans Saints Tom Benson 1985
New York Giants John Mara (50%)4
Steve Tisch (50%) 2005
New York Jets Robert Wood Johnson IV 2000
Oakland Raiders Carol and Mark Davis† 2011
Philadelphia Eagles Jeffrey Lurie 1994
Pittsburgh Steelers Dan Rooney3 1988
San Diego Chargers Alex Spanos†1,6 1984
San Francisco 49ers Jed York 1 2009
Seattle Seahawks Paul Allen 1997
St. Louis Rams Stan Kroenke 1 2010
Tampa Bay Buccaneers The Glazer Family 2014
Tennessee Titans Tommy and Susie Smith††
Amy Hunt
Kenneth Adams IV3 2013
Washington Redskins Dan Snyder† 1999
† Majority or plurality owner, rather than outright owner.
†† Family ownership of club has been split by descendants of previous owner.
Bidwill, Wilson, McCaskey, Brown, Ford, Irsay, Hunt, Mara, Davis, Rooney, Glazer, Smith, Hunt, and Adams represent ownership that has been longer than year listed, as teams have been owned by their families longer than listed.
1 Owner held stake prior to this date.
2 Original owner of franchise.
3 Child/heir of original owner of franchise.
4 Grandchild/heir of heir of original owner of franchise.
5 Public corporation with a grandfathered exception to current NFL ownership rules.
6 This owner is not active in day-to-day operations.
Trustees of the estate of Buffalo Bills owner Ralph Wilson: Mary Wilson, Mary Owen, Jeff Littman and Eugene Driker.
Green Bay Packers: Public corporation led by Chairman, and former NFL Player, Mark H. Murphy.

[thebandit27]

What's funny is everyone has been in love with Pegula as owner. If a Gundlach/Kelly/ potentially Golisano group steps up will everyone be disappointed? Will people start rooting against Jim Kelly? Or if Pegula gets it - are people upset he took the team away from Kelly? I'm happy either way - just keep away from JBJ.

 

I'm cheering for El Pegual because I love what he's done downtown. I won't be disappointed if any of the other groups wins though, sans Trump (I'm taking for granted that JBJ has no shot). I think all of Kelly, Golisano, and "Group X" would be very solid in terms of both team ownership and investment in the area.

[TheFunPolice]

Maybe Gundlach and Kelly want to team with Pegula.....

 

Why would they want to go in against a guy with enormous resources who has proven that he will spend on the team/facilities and has done so much already for WNY?

 

Pegula is pretty much every Bills fan's dream.... and they work to sink that bid? Just doesn't make sense.

Edited August 8, 2014 by TheFunPolice

[The Dean]

 

That's more than I make in a week.

From wikipedia here's a list of NFL team owners.

Note there are lots of teams with multiple owners (flagged with a single dagger).

Franchise Owner Year
Arizona Cardinals Bill Bidwill 1 1972
Atlanta Falcons Arthur Blank† 1 2004
Baltimore Ravens Steve Bisciotti† 1 2004
Buffalo Bills Estate of Ralph Wilson† 3 [1] 2014
Carolina Panthers Jerry Richardson††† 2 1993
Chicago Bears Virginia Halas McCaskey† 3 1983
Cincinnati Bengals Mike Brown3 1991
Cleveland Browns Jimmy Haslam 2012
Dallas Cowboys Jerry Jones 1989
Denver Broncos Pat Bowlen†6 1984
Detroit Lions Martha Ford†[2] 2014
Green Bay Packers Green Bay Packers, Inc. 5 1923
Houston Texans Robert C. McNair† 2 1999
Indianapolis Colts Jim Irsay 1997
Jacksonville Jaguars Shahid Khan 2012
Kansas City Chiefs Clark Hunt†† 3 2006
Miami Dolphins Stephen M. Ross† 2008
Minnesota Vikings Zygi Wilf† 2005
New England Patriots Robert Kraft 1994
New Orleans Saints Tom Benson 1985
New York Giants John Mara (50%)4
Steve Tisch (50%) 2005
New York Jets Robert Wood Johnson IV 2000
Oakland Raiders Carol and Mark Davis† 2011
Philadelphia Eagles Jeffrey Lurie 1994
Pittsburgh Steelers Dan Rooney3 1988
San Diego Chargers Alex Spanos†1,6 1984
San Francisco 49ers Jed York 1 2009
Seattle Seahawks Paul Allen 1997
St. Louis Rams Stan Kroenke 1 2010
Tampa Bay Buccaneers The Glazer Family 2014
Tennessee Titans Tommy and Susie Smith††
Amy Hunt
Kenneth Adams IV3 2013
Washington Redskins Dan Snyder† 1999
† Majority or plurality owner, rather than outright owner.
†† Family ownership of club has been split by descendants of previous owner.
Bidwill, Wilson, McCaskey, Brown, Ford, Irsay, Hunt, Mara, Davis, Rooney, Glazer, Smith, Hunt, and Adams represent ownership that has been longer than year listed, as teams have been owned by their families longer than listed.
1 Owner held stake prior to this date.
2 Original owner of franchise.
3 Child/heir of original owner of franchise.
4 Grandchild/heir of heir of original owner of franchise.
5 Public corporation with a grandfathered exception to current NFL ownership rules.
6 This owner is not active in day-to-day operations.
Trustees of the estate of Buffalo Bills owner Ralph Wilson: Mary Wilson, Mary Owen, Jeff Littman and Eugene Driker.
Green Bay Packers: Public corporation led by Chairman, and former NFL Player, Mark H. Murphy.

 

Never mind, I didn't read all the way through

Edited August 8, 2014 by The Dean

[jahnyc]

I would think Gundlach would team with Golisano because at some point, assuming that Golisano is the lead investor, Golisano will need to pass the team to someone else. That person would be Gundlach by purchasing Golisano's interest.

[CodeMonkey]

Maybe Gundlach and Kelly want to team with Pegula.....

 

Why would they want to go in against a guy with enormous resources who has proven that he will spend on the team/facilities and has done so much already for WNY?

 

Pegula is pretty much every Bills fan's dream.... and they work to sink that bid? Just doesn't make sense.

Clearly there is something going on behind the scenes that we have no clue about, and probably never will.

Or, everything we think we know is all bull **** and all of this is nothing more than bull ****.

Nice to be completely in the dark, isn't it