New sale of team thread

[Kirby Jackson]

All successful billionaire businessmen are either in or out, they never half-ass it (Trump as a notable exception). So it's pretty obvious that Pegula wants the team. Others do as well.

What I am saying is that if he is close it will be his. He had expressed interest (but been relatively quiet). Pegula WILL be the next owner of this team.

[CodeMonkey]

I have been following this extremely close on a daily basis and I have yet to see anything from what I would consider to be a pretty reputable source that has shown to be off. There have been a lot of reporters, including several from the (allegedly horrible by some here) BuffNews, that have been all over this story. Things that appeared to have been leaks have all been possibly if not likely true, and there has been little to nothing that has refuted it. As of right now, I would tend to believe those leaks to be pretty accurate.

??? Of course there is nothing to refute it. Just like there is nothing to confirm it. It is a closed process. I can say that a local stripper bid 1.7 Billion. Obviously I would be full of **** and no one with half a brain would believe it, but you could neither confirm or refute it. Believe the leaks or don't, it is up to you. But to try and apply logic that since none of the earlier leaks were refuted (because no one has the information to refute or confirm them) these are probably accurate too?

 

What I am saying is that if he is close it will be his. He had expressed interest (but been relatively quiet). Pegula WILL be the next owner of this team.

I think that most, including me, think he is the frontrunner of the ones we know about.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

I think that most, including me, think he is the frontrunner of the ones we know about.

There is only one other group out there that I truly believed had a chance to own the team IF Pegula was indeed interested. It is a group with massive wealth that was involved earlier in the process. That group would have had to outbid Pegula by a decent margin as he is not only the favorite of the fans. They too would have been keeping the team in WNY. It sounds like they elected to not submit a bid.

[thebandit27]

There is only one other group out there that I truly believed had a chance to own the team IF Pegula was indeed interested. It is a group with massive wealth that was involved earlier in the process. That group would have had to outbid Pegula by a decent margin as he is not only the favorite of the fans. They too would have been keeping the team in WNY. It sounds like they elected to not submit a bid.

 

This may have been the most telling thing IMO

[Kirby Jackson]

This may have been the most telling thing IMO

I was a little surprised. I thought that they were the only other people with a legit chance if Pegula wanted in. They could have pulled some kind of Ballmer move and maybe Pegula would have balked. The rest of these people can't keep up. That goes without saying all of the support that he can lean on if need be (Jacobs, Golisano, the state, the team, etc...).

[Kelly the Dog]

??? Of course there is nothing to refute it. Just like there is nothing to confirm it. It is a closed process. I can say that a local stripper bid 1.7 Billion. Obviously I would be full of **** and no one with half a brain would believe it, but you could neither confirm or refute it. Believe the leaks or don't, it is up to you. But to try and apply logic that since none of the earlier leaks were refuted (because no one has the information to refute or confirm them) these are probably accurate too?

 

No, I am saying that there have been a lot of insider reports about the process that fit in with exactly what has been going on. The decent ones IMO have yet to refute one another, which is usually what happens. I also have some insider connections who concur, and others here do, too, which has closely followed what they have been told by people close to it.

 

Surely we cannot know for sure, but one can have a very, very good guess when you combine 1] solid reporting, 2] insider information, 3] trustworthy (relative, I know) third-party infor, 4] a serious amount of knowledge of this topic's history, 5] give it serious thought, and 6] add good solid common sense. When all of those things add up to a very logical scenario, it's a damn good bet.

 

I would bet you anything you want that Terry Pegula is the next owner of the Bills. It's not just a hunch.

[Guffalo]

Latest has Pegula's bid so far is highest

[thewildrabbit]

From what I've read JBJ, and his group will be the least likely new owner. As groups get consideration last over single buyers. That is even if they come in with the top bid, and I highly doubt that happens.

 

TP continues to be the front runner in this issue, and the only way that changes is if someone goes nuts to the tune of 1.5 to 2 billion. Like Google CEO Larry page. JBJ simply doesn't have that much cash.

 

Supposed first bid at 1.3 billion, which probably knocks out Trump & JBJ right out of contention.

[eball]

No, I am saying that there have been a lot of insider reports about the process that fit in with exactly what has been going on. The decent ones IMO have yet to refute one another, which is usually what happens. I also have some insider connections who concur, and others here do, too, which has closely followed what they have been told by people close to it.

 

Surely we cannot know for sure, but one can have a very, very good guess when you combine 1] solid reporting, 2] insider information, 3] trustworthy (relative, I know) third-party infor, 4] a serious amount of knowledge of this topic's history, 5] give it serious thought, and 6] add good solid common sense. When all of those things add up to a very logical scenario, it's a damn good bet.

 

I would bet you anything you want that Terry Pegula is the next owner of the Bills. It's not just a hunch.

 

Damned logic.

[YoloinOhio]

Whatev. It is on like a mofo.

[transient]

From what I've read JBJ, and his group will be the least likely new owner. As groups get consideration last over single buyers. That is even if they come in with the top bid, and I highly doubt that happens.

 

TP continues to be the front runner in this issue, and the only way that changes is if someone goes nuts to the tune of 1.5 to 2 billion. Like Google CEO Larry page. JBJ simply doesn't have that much cash.

 

Supposed first bid at 1.3 billion, which probably knocks out Trump & JBJ right out of contention.

 

This is not meant as a rehash of the "But can TPegs own both the Sabres and Bills" joke, but I'm perplexed by Tannenbaum's involvement in JBJ's group given his ownership of the Leafs. They ARE in competing markets. Can he own both?

[Kelly the Dog]

This is not meant as a rehash of the "But can TPegs own both the Sabres and Bills" joke, but I'm perplexed by Tannenbaum's involvement in JBJ's group given his ownership of the Leafs. They ARE in competing markets. Can he own both?

I could be mistaken but that is probably one of the reasons that JBJ is going to be "the controlling owner" for the Toronto group. Other owners can own teams in different cities, just not the controlling owner, whom has to own at least 30%.

[The Wiz]

This is not meant as a rehash of the "But can TPegs own both the Sabres and Bills" joke, but I'm perplexed by Tannenbaum's involvement in JBJ's group given his ownership of the Leafs. They ARE in competing markets. Can he own both?

Competing markets in the NHL. It's an NFL rule. But I think Kelly's answer provides better depth.

 

NFL rules do not permit owners of another major pro sports franchise to own a NFL team unless those two teams are in the same market

[Kelly the Dog]

Competing markets in the NHL. It's an NFL rule. But I think Kelly's answer provides better depth.

 

NFL rules do not permit owners of another major pro sports franchise to own a NFL team unless those two teams are in the same market

It also could very well be that the NFL considers Toronto to be within the Bills market, so, in effect, even though it is in two completely different locales, cities, and even countries, it doesn't violate their rule. The rule is designed to keep an owner from favoring one of his franchises in a different city (pssst-- THE HOCKEY TEAM!) over his NFL team with money, time, resources, etc.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Kelly the Dog

[RuntheDamnBall]

I hope someone will give Bon Jon a little

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDVlqddaiXM

[Mickey]

Just thought of something and maybe its nothing but even if the JBJ group won the bid, they would still have to pay the $400M to move the team. Or if they waited for the buyout, they would still have to pay a relocation fee and anywhere between $800M-$1.5B for a new statium.

 

They wouldnt be able to afford all of that would they if they got the team for say $1.5B?

 

CBF

There is no clause that lets them move the team within the first 7 years of the lease at the cost of $400M. The lease requires them to stay in Buffalo for those first 7 years, the first year of which already passed. The new owners would have to go to court to get out of that lease provision and if they were successful, the lease calls for liquidated damages of $400M. The notion that they could leave for the cost of $400M is not true, they would have to win in court first and they won't unless there is a suicidal judge sitting on the bench in the US District Court for the Western District of New York.

[The Wiz]

It also could very well be that the NFL considers Toronto to be within the Bills market, so, in effect, even though it is in two completely different locales, cities, and even countries, it doesn't violate their rule. The rule is designed to keep an owner from favoring one of his franchises in a different city (pssst-- THE HOCKEY TEAM!) over his NFL team with money, time, resources, etc.

This has always baffled me. The NFL doesn't consider Toronto as part of the market in TV revenue, which I understand but if they do consider them within the market then would the NFL need to vote on relocating if they were trying to move to Toronto? If that is the case, do they have to vote on the team moving out of OP if they build a new stadium in NF/downtown/etc?

[yall]

There is no clause that lets them move the team within the first 7 years of the lease at the cost of $400M. The lease requires them to stay in Buffalo for those first 7 years, the first year of which already passed. The new owners would have to go to court to get out of that lease provision and if they were successful, the lease calls for liquidated damages of $400M. The notion that they could leave for the cost of $400M is not true, they would have to win in court first and they won't unless there is a suicidal judge sitting on the bench in the US District Court for the Western District of New York.

 

Don't forget the cost of operating a football team with drastically reduced sponsorship, merch and ticket sales.

 

Wild-ass speculation; The loss in revenue might be enough to cause them to lose money for 6 years depending on what their financing is like (since they presumably aren't paying cash).

[Kelly the Dog]

 

This has always baffled me. The NFL doesn't consider Toronto as part of the market in TV revenue, which I understand but if they do consider them within the market then would the NFL need to vote on relocating if they were trying to move to Toronto? If that is the case, do they have to vote on the team moving out of OP if they build a new stadium in NF/downtown/etc?

The answer is easy. They make their own rules, change and apply them as they like, depending on what makes them the most money.

[Big Turk]

 

The answer is easy. They make their own rules, change and apply them as they like, depending on what makes them the most money.

Yes as long as those rules don't run them afoul of the golden egg which is their anti trust exemption

[BillnutinHouston]

 

I have been following this extremely close on a daily basis and I have yet to see anything from what I would consider to be a pretty reputable source that has shown to be off. There have been a lot of reporters, including several from the (allegedly horrible by some here) BuffNews, that have been all over this story. Things that appeared to have been leaks have all been possibly if not likely true, and there has been little to nothing that has refuted it. As of right now, I would tend to believe those leaks to be pretty accurate.

So if the reported numbers aren't publicly refuted then they are true? My bar is set a lot higher than that. I think we're now in the territory where just the "grown-ups" are playing, and they're subject to the NDAs. The grown ups (OK, maybe not necessarily Trump) don't feel the need to correct the record if the reported numbers aren't true. For example, if JBJ actually bid $1.4B, he wouldn't leak that his actual bid was higher than what was reported. He wouldn't need to since the court of public opinion just doesn't matter - it's only about the number that Morgan Stanley is looking at.

 

Latest has Pegula's bid so far is highest

What am I missing? As I read it, the story that you link to never states that Pegula's bid is the highest. Edited July 30, 2014 by BillnutinHouston

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Yes as long as those rules don't run them afoul of the golden egg which is their anti trust exemption

True. But it's easy to argue TV markets, what constitutes football market, why Toronto is different, etc, without rocking that applecart.

 

So if the reported numbers aren't publicly refuted then they are true? My bar is set a lot higher than that.

No, for that reason and about five others mentioned above, all combined, I strongly believe it to be quite close if not true and I would bet on it.

[Kirby Jackson]

He wouldn't need to since the court of public opinion just doesn't matter - it's only about the number that Morgan Stanley is looking at.

 

I guess that this is where we disagree Billsnut (and I usually agree with you). The winning bid isn't decided by Morgan Stanley it is decided by that 4 person group. If I were Pegula I would show up at Training Camp, at the HOF game, etc... It would apply a certain level of pressure to the trust (not that they don't want Pegula).

 

Personally, I think that it's a foregone conclusion but the public adulation can't have anything but a positive impact on his candidacy. "Why wouldn't we pick this guy? What is Terry Pegula missing that we are looking for?" He checks all of the boxes.

[TSNBDSC]

Stayin

[CodeMonkey]

No, I am saying that there have been a lot of insider reports about the process that fit in with exactly what has been going on. The decent ones IMO have yet to refute one another, which is usually what happens. I also have some insider connections who concur, and others here do, too, which has closely followed what they have been told by people close to it.

 

Surely we cannot know for sure, but one can have a very, very good guess when you combine 1] solid reporting, 2] insider information, 3] trustworthy (relative, I know) third-party infor, 4] a serious amount of knowledge of this topic's history, 5] give it serious thought, and 6] add good solid common sense. When all of those things add up to a very logical scenario, it's a damn good bet.

 

I would bet you anything you want that Terry Pegula is the next owner of the Bills. It's not just a hunch.

Well I suppose it depends upon how much you trust alleged inside information about a closed bid process with a NDA in place where the winning bid is expected to be over one billion dollars. Me, I think it is about as likely to be accurate as Kate Upton is likely to give me a booty call tonight And there can be no accurate "reporting" without accurate (inside in this case) information.

 

And no matter how much you Billieve, unless you are someone on the inside, it most certainly is a hunch (one I happen to agree with) at this point.

[BUFFALOKIE]

Stayin

 

Way to keep the faith brother!

[Tyrod's Tailor]

Well I suppose it depends upon how much you trust alleged inside information about a closed bid process with a NDA in place where the winning bid is expected to be over one billion dollars. Me, I think it is about as likely to be accurate as Kate Upton is likely to give me a booty call tonight And there can be no accurate "reporting" without accurate (inside in this case) information.

 

And no matter how much you Billieve, unless you are someone on the inside, it most certainly is a hunch (one I happen to agree with) at this point.

 

If information classified by the US Government can be leaked and reported on, so can a team sale. I trust the reporting.

[Mike in Horseheads]

Competing markets in the NHL. It's an NFL rule. But I think Kelly's answer provides better depth.

 

NFL rules do not permit owners of another major pro sports franchise to own a NFL team unless those two teams are in the same market

They make a exception because of the Leafs.

 

The answer is easy. They make their own rules, change and apply them as they like, depending on what makes them the most money.

As HR Directors say, "case by case situation."

[CodeMonkey]

If information classified by the US Government can be leaked and reported on, so can a team sale. I trust the reporting.

Then again, what group has it's head up its ass further and for a longer time, the US government or the Bills Trustees

[Tyrod's Tailor]

Then again, what group has it's head up its ass further and for a longer time, the US government or the Bills Trustees

 

Ha, I knew I was opening pandora's box with that analogy.

[Charles Romes]

Is there a way to jump to the end on your phone? That's why I love new threads and hate old ones.

[FluffHead]

Is there a way to jump to the end on your phone? That's why I love new threads and hate old ones.

 

Tapatalk app works well but no shoutbox

[It's in My Blood]

Is there a way to jump to the end on your phone? That's why I love new threads and hate old ones.

 

Big pet peeve of mine, glad you brought it up. I usually flip the site to full version,scroll to last page,then flip back to mobile version. I'll try the app.

 

 

Go Bills! All hail El Pegula!

 

[Kelly the Dog]

Well I suppose it depends upon how much you trust alleged inside information about a closed bid process with a NDA in place where the winning bid is expected to be over one billion dollars. Me, I think it is about as likely to be accurate as Kate Upton is likely to give me a booty call tonight And there can be no accurate "reporting" without accurate (inside in this case) information.

 

And no matter how much you Billieve, unless you are someone on the inside, it most certainly is a hunch (one I happen to agree with) at this point.

I have a very different definition of hunch then.

 

Put it this way: I have a good friend, one of a few different ones who know something about this issue and are very, very well connected to the team. One of them sent me a text a couple weeks ago saying "that the Toronto group is very serious, and they are going to come in with a very strong bid. I'm hearing it's going to be 1.2b and Pegula is going to have to match." When two weeks later, different sources are throwing out those exact numbers as the bids, I tend to believe this may be accurate. But that is just me.

[hondo in seattle]

There were reports that other candidates - besides the ones we all knew about - were quietly putting together bids. Apparently this turned out to be way wrong.

 

Incidentally, on June 19 I predicted Pegula at $1.27B. Got my fingers crossed that I'll win the Final Sale Price Contest. Far more importantly, though, I'm hoping Pegula wins his contest!

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/168509-bills-final-sale-price-contest/page__hl__bids

[Kelly the Dog]

There were reports that other candidates - besides the ones we all knew about - were quietly putting together bids. Apparently this turned out to be way wrong.

 

To me, that doesn't at all say it turned out to be wrong, I would bet anything that several entities were quietly putting together bids. Then they could have heard through the trust, or bank, or Bills, or other sources, that the first bids were going to be in the 1.2 and 1.3b range and then other candidates became quietly closing their bids.

 

Or, lately, through various channels, they came to find out that there was no way in hell that they could move the team once they got deeper into the process.

[basskik11]

 

 

What a hack, grahammypants didn't even report my bid of 69.99

 

haha

[hondo in seattle]

To me, that doesn't at all say it turned out to be wrong, I would bet anything that several entities were quietly putting together bids. Then they could have heard through the trust, or bank, or Bills, or other sources, that the first bids were going to be in the 1.2 and 1.3b range and then other candidates became quietly closing their bids.

 

Or, lately, through various channels, they came to find out that there was no way in hell that they could move the team once they got deeper into the process.

 

Quite possibly true. Maybe wrongly so - but I was surprised to read there were only 3 bids submitted.

[BillnutinHouston]

I guess that this is where we disagree Billsnut (and I usually agree with you). The winning bid isn't decided by Morgan Stanley it is decided by that 4 person group. If I were Pegula I would show up at Training Camp, at the HOF game, etc... It would apply a certain level of pressure to the trust (not that they don't want Pegula).

 

Personally, I think that it's a foregone conclusion but the public adulation can't have anything but a positive impact on his candidacy. "Why wouldn't we pick this guy? What is Terry Pegula missing that we are looking for?" He checks all of the boxes.

Not sure where we disagree. My point was that bidders do not gain anything by publicly positioning themselves as being the highest bidder. In fact the process (through the NDAs) discourages that.

 

I do agree with you (to a point) that if Pegula were to show up at the HoF game or training camp, it would give the fans some jollies and maybe put some type of weird pressure on the trust from a PR standpoint, however I think we can conclude from his actions to date that Pegula has NO interest in putting the trust in this position, has no interest in cheap publicity stunts and has calculated that taking the high road is the surest route to success. I happen to think his approach is the correct one. But I also don't see where JBJ would gain by publicly posturing, either.

[Kirby Jackson]

Not sure where we disagree. My point was that bidders do not gain anything by publicly positioning themselves as being the highest bidder. In fact the process (through the NDAs) discourages that.

 

I do agree with you (to a point) that if Pegula were to show up at the HoF game or training camp, it would give the fans some jollies and maybe put some type of weird pressure on the trust from a PR standpoint, however I think we can conclude from his actions to date that Pegula has NO interest in putting the trust in this position, has no interest in cheap publicity stunts and has calculated that taking the high road is the surest route to success. I happen to think his approach is the correct one. But I also don't see where JBJ would gain by publicly posturing, either.

I apologize, I misunderstood. Pegula to me is the only one that has anything to gain by playing the media game but that's not really his thing. To me he did his posturing by his really aggressive early bid.