What is better, no guns, or more guns?

[Deranged Rhino]

1 hour ago, GaryPinC said:

They believe in the recent coup attempt but fail to realize it did not involve their guns in any way.

 

It involved to deprivation of liberty -- which is what the second amendment is meant to protect. The coup was designed to disenfranchise sixty million Americans and in the process trampled over the constitutional rights of multiple individuals, bankrupting them and jailing them in the process. You say it did not involve guns in anyway -- well: 

 

You're wrong.

[Koko78]

2 hours ago, 3rdnlng said:

Canadians are jealous of the U.S. Not only do they live a sheltered life in their nanny state but they realize that they do so under our protection. Some of them denigrate us because they can't accept America as their real daddy.

 

[jrober38]

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

Cool. Hey, I like Canada. It’s interesting , has a lot of good golf courses and everything always looks very clean. It may also be safer, as you state. Fwiw, It’s population is currently 72% Caucasian and as recently as the late 90’s that figure was around 86%.

 

Canada is great. 

 

Taxes are high, but the trade off is a fair one in my eyes. 

[DC Tom]

29 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Canada is great. 

 

Taxes are high, but the trade off is a fair one in my eyes. 

 

It'd be better if it wasn't full of Canadians.

[3rdnlng]

44 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

It'd be better if it wasn't full of Canadians.

I'm not turned off by Canada's lakes, mountains and pretty forests. It's their exports like Bieber and the insects.

[jrober38]

2 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

Our immigration policies have brought great societal contributors from India and Hong Kong and other Asian countries.

 

 

 

You have to be a contributor and invest a healthy sum to get in, for the most part.

 

 

 

It's a great system.

 

Trump gets way too much flack for trying to implement the same policy. 

Unfortunately the Republicans who cater their policies towards helping business owners have no interest in solving immigration and reducing the supply of cheap labour. 

 

The penalties for employing illegal immigration should be much steeper. 

 

Immigration laws are similar to drug laws in my eyes in the sense that too much emphasis is put on penalizing the low level people and not enough emphasis on stopping the people who make it all possible. Yes immigrants are breaking the law, but they wouldn't come here in the same numbers if it was harder to find work. 

[row_33]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

It's a great system.

 

Trump gets way too much flack for trying to implement the same policy. 

Unfortunately the Republicans who cater their policies towards helping business owners have no interest in solving immigration and reducing the supply of cheap labour. 

 

The penalties for employing illegal immigration should be much steeper. 

 

Immigration laws are similar to drug laws in my eyes in the sense that too much emphasis is put on penalizing the low level people and not enough emphasis on stopping the people who make it all possible. Yes immigrants are breaking the law, but they wouldn't come here in the same numbers if it was harder to find work. 

 

We also have a well guarded border all over the county, the only practical entry is along the northern US border, some have tried to land at Newfoundland by sea. 

[sabrecrazed]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

 

It's a great system.

 

Trump gets way too much flack for trying to implement the same policy. 

Unfortunately the Republicans who cater their policies towards helping business owners have no interest in solving immigration and reducing the supply of cheap labour. 

 

The penalties for employing illegal immigration should be much steeper. 

 

Immigration laws are similar to drug laws in my eyes in the sense that too much emphasis is put on penalizing the low level people and not enough emphasis on stopping the people who make it all possible. Yes immigrants are breaking the law, but they wouldn't come here in the same numbers if it was harder to find work. 

Racist!!

Why do you hate brown people? 

 

[GaryPinC]

9 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

It involved to deprivation of liberty -- which is what the second amendment is meant to protect. The coup was designed to disenfranchise sixty million Americans and in the process trampled over the constitutional rights of multiple individuals, bankrupting them and jailing them in the process. You say it did not involve guns in anyway -- well: 

 

You're wrong.

You'll have to forgive me, I'm not following your train of thought.  The second amendment allows us the right to protect ourselves, our families and homes, and our country against any foreign invader.  Most importantly, it gives us the means to overthrow our government if enough of us feel it strongly necessary.  If someone is wrongly jailed or denied their liberty, I wouldn't consider that a direct relationship to the second amendment.  Please explain?

 

WRT guns, I did not say there were no guns involved in the coup process.  My words:

"but fail to realize it did not involve their guns in any way"

refer to the gun rights we enjoy across this great country.  The coup did not compromise our basic gun rights in any way.

Edited August 11, 2019 by GaryPinC

[TakeYouToTasker]

@GaryPinC

 

I’m not ignoring your response.  Work travel at the moment.

[row_33]

9 hours ago, sabrecrazed said:

Racist!!

Why do you hate brown people? 

 

 

We are committed to the Commonwealth of Nations for which that is the one demographic that is not largely included 

 

[GaryPinC]

5 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

@GaryPinC

 

I’m not ignoring your response.  Work travel at the moment.

No worries, work and life certainly get in the way of me contributing on here more frequently.  Safe travels.

[BeginnersMind]

On 8/6/2019 at 8:12 AM, GG said:

 

Absolutely.

 

Make no mistake, having access to the guns with high capacity stock makes it much easier to perpetuate a mass shooting.  What it doesn't do is address the urge by these individuals to perpetuate mass killings.

 

See the answer above.  Having an easier access to the gun is not the motivation to go out and start shooting people.   

 

 

 

I agree. As I’ve been saying, making it harder to access the weapons only prevents some of the killings and we need other steps in addition. In particular the hard steps of helping all people feel like they are part of a community and not divided apart from others. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by BeginnersMind

[Nanker]

Answer me this. How did Walter White get his hands on an M60?

 

[Koko78]

1 hour ago, Nanker said:

Answer me this. How did Walter White get his hands on an M60?

 

 

WalMart?

[row_33]

2 hours ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

I agree. As I’ve been saying, making it harder to access the weapons only prevents some of the killings and we need other steps in addition. In particular the hard steps of helping all people feel like they are part of a community and not divided apart from others. 

 

Good luck, about 2 seconds after I’m introduced to someone under 40, they are again buried in their iPhone

 

 

[BeginnersMind]

10 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Good luck, about 2 seconds after I’m introduced to someone under 40, they are again buried in their iPhone

 

 

 

It won’t be easy but it’s important: We live in the best time to be alive ever. 

[row_33]

6 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

It won’t be easy but it’s important: We live in the best time to be alive ever. 

 

No argument there, very grateful for these post-postmodern times

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

We need common sense Clinton laws.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

21 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

We also have a well guarded border all over the county, the only practical entry is along the northern US border, some have tried to land at Newfoundland by sea. 

 

...so why is Ellis Island defunct, the same one that my ancestral grandparents on both sides used?.....what the eff happened to the "right way"??........

[3rdnlng]

2 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

Good luck, about 2 seconds after I’m introduced to someone under 40, they are again buried in their iPhone

 

 

And I bet they tell you "it's not you, it's me" too.

[Bob&Doug]

The far left knows no borders...….note some of the solutions proposed 

 

https://youtu.be/9Jv8oBzKKjs

[B-Man]

 

 

BUT THE IMPORTANT PART IS TO STIGMATIZE AND DE-NORMALIZE GUN PURCHASES: 

 

 

California’s Background Check Law Had No Impact on Gun Deaths, Johns Hopkins Study Finds. 

 

And gun purchasers.

 

 

.

 

[ALF]

A former NBA player was sentenced to 3.5 years in prison for possessing a loaded gun

 

 Brooklyn District Attorney Eric Gonzalez announced Monday.

 

"This defendant exercised his right to a jury trial and was found guilty of possessing an illegal firearm," Gonzalez said in a statement. "The mandatory prison sentence he received today is required by law and he has now been held accountable for the unlawful conduct."

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/sport/former-nba-player-gun-sentencing/index.html

 

That is way too harsh if the rest of his record is clean. I thought 1 year was the sentence in NYS

[BeginnersMind]

52 minutes ago, ALF said:

A former NBA player was sentenced to 3.5 years in prison for possessing a loaded gun

 

 Brooklyn District Attorney Eric Gonzalez announced Monday.

 

"This defendant exercised his right to a jury trial and was found guilty of possessing an illegal firearm," Gonzalez said in a statement. "The mandatory prison sentence he received today is required by law and he has now been held accountable for the unlawful conduct."

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/sport/former-nba-player-gun-sentencing/index.html

 

That is way too harsh if the rest of his record is clean. I thought 1 year was the sentence in NYS

 

It can be much more, especially depending on other circumstances. 

[B-Man]

THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED: I used to think gun control was the answer. My research told me otherwise.

 

Leah Libresco is a statistician and former newswriter at FiveThirtyEight, a data journalism site. She is the author of “Arriving at Amen.”

Before I started researching gun deaths, gun-control policy used to frustrate me. I wished the National Rifle Association would stop blocking common-sense gun-control reforms such as banning assault weapons, restricting silencers, shrinking magazine sizes and all the other measures that could make guns less deadly.

 

Then, my colleagues and I at FiveThirtyEight spent three months analyzing all 33,000 lives ended by guns each year in the United States, and I wound up frustrated in a whole new way. We looked at what interventions might have saved those people, and the case for the policies I’d lobbied for crumbled when I examined the evidence. The best ideas left standing were narrowly tailored interventions to protect subtypes of potential victims, not broad attempts to limit the lethality of guns.

 

I researched the strictly tightened gun laws in Britain and Australia and concluded that they didn’t prove much about what America’s policy should be. Neither nation experienced drops in mass shootings or other gun related-crime that could be attributed to their buybacks and bans. Mass shootings were too rare in Australia for their absence after the buyback program to be clear evidence of progress. And in both Australia and Britain, the gun restrictions had an ambiguous effect on other gun-related crimes or deaths.

 

When I looked at the other oft-praised policies, I found out that no gunowner walks into the store to buy an “assault weapon.” It’s an invented classification that includes any semi-automatic that has two or more features, such as a bayonet mount, a rocket-propelled grenade-launcher mount, a folding stock or a pistol grip. But guns are modular, and any hobbyist can easily add these features at home, just as if they were snapping together Legos.

 

As for silencers — they deserve that name only in movies, where they reduce gunfire to a soft puick puick. In real life, silencers limit hearing damage for shooters but don’t make gunfire dangerously quiet. An AR-15 with a silencer is about as loud as a jackhammer. Magazine limits were a little more promising, but a practiced shooter could still change magazines so fast as to make the limit meaningless.

 

 

 

The thing to understand is that gun control isn’t about saving lives.

 

It’s about humiliating the deplorables and keeping them in their place.

 

It’s culture war of the crassest kind.

 

 

.

[LB3]

3 hours ago, ALF said:

A former NBA player was sentenced to 3.5 years in prison for possessing a loaded gun

 

 Brooklyn District Attorney Eric Gonzalez announced Monday.

 

"This defendant exercised his right to a jury trial and was found guilty of possessing an illegal firearm," Gonzalez said in a statement. "The mandatory prison sentence he received today is required by law and he has now been held accountable for the unlawful conduct."

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/sport/former-nba-player-gun-sentencing/index.html

 

That is way too harsh if the rest of his record is clean. I thought 1 year was the sentence in NYS

Telfair just keeps making the same mistake over and over.

[Koko78]

3 hours ago, ALF said:

A former NBA player was sentenced to 3.5 years in prison for possessing a loaded gun

 

 Brooklyn District Attorney Eric Gonzalez announced Monday.

 

"This defendant exercised his right to a jury trial and was found guilty of possessing an illegal firearm," Gonzalez said in a statement. "The mandatory prison sentence he received today is required by law and he has now been held accountable for the unlawful conduct."

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/sport/former-nba-player-gun-sentencing/index.html

 

That is way too harsh if the rest of his record is clean. I thought 1 year was the sentence in NYS

 

Here are the sentencing ranges for Criminal Possession of a Weapon 2nd, as a first felony offender:

 

Quote

A Determinate Sentence of imprisonment is mandatory. Penal Law 60.05(4). The term must be in whole or half years between 3.5 and 15 years. Penal Law 70.02(3)(b). The Determinate Sentence shall include, as a part thereof, an additional period of Post-Release Supervision of between 2 and one-half years and 5 years. Penal Law 70.00(6) and 70.45(2).

 

He got the minimum, which isn't bad considering that he apparently had a prior weapon conviction.

https://sports.yahoo.com/former-nba-player-sebastian-telfair-sentenced-to-35-years-in-prison-on-gun-conviction-213926987.html

Edited August 13, 2019 by Koko78

[row_33]

30 minutes ago, B-Man said:

THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED: I used to think gun control was the answer. My research told me otherwise.

 

Leah Libresco is a statistician and former newswriter at FiveThirtyEight, a data journalism site. She is the author of “Arriving at Amen.”

Before I started researching gun deaths, gun-control policy used to frustrate me. I wished the National Rifle Association would stop blocking common-sense gun-control reforms such as banning assault weapons, restricting silencers, shrinking magazine sizes and all the other measures that could make guns less deadly.

 

Then, my colleagues and I at FiveThirtyEight spent three months analyzing all 33,000 lives ended by guns each year in the United States, and I wound up frustrated in a whole new way. We looked at what interventions might have saved those people, and the case for the policies I’d lobbied for crumbled when I examined the evidence. The best ideas left standing were narrowly tailored interventions to protect subtypes of potential victims, not broad attempts to limit the lethality of guns.

 

I researched the strictly tightened gun laws in Britain and Australia and concluded that they didn’t prove much about what America’s policy should be. Neither nation experienced drops in mass shootings or other gun related-crime that could be attributed to their buybacks and bans. Mass shootings were too rare in Australia for their absence after the buyback program to be clear evidence of progress. And in both Australia and Britain, the gun restrictions had an ambiguous effect on other gun-related crimes or deaths.

 

When I looked at the other oft-praised policies, I found out that no gunowner walks into the store to buy an “assault weapon.” It’s an invented classification that includes any semi-automatic that has two or more features, such as a bayonet mount, a rocket-propelled grenade-launcher mount, a folding stock or a pistol grip. But guns are modular, and any hobbyist can easily add these features at home, just as if they were snapping together Legos.

 

As for silencers — they deserve that name only in movies, where they reduce gunfire to a soft puick puick. In real life, silencers limit hearing damage for shooters but don’t make gunfire dangerously quiet. An AR-15 with a silencer is about as loud as a jackhammer. Magazine limits were a little more promising, but a practiced shooter could still change magazines so fast as to make the limit meaningless.

 

 

 

The thing to understand is that gun control isn’t about saving lives.

 

It’s about humiliating the deplorables and keeping them in their place.

 

It’s culture war of the crassest kind.

 

 

.

 

You crazy Americans....  

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

Because all people are not the problem.

 

Just some of them. Duh.

 

Liberals cannot meme.

 

 

.

[ALF]

Less people with health insurance ( mental health coverage ) what could go wrong ? 

[B-Man]

 

[Koko78]

15 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

I'm all for the Democrats' position. Let's start with disarming the Capitol Police and any other public or private security in place for those members.

[Gary M]

On ‎8‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 9:26 PM, DC Tom said:

 

Nobody in the US thinks that.  Not after having to choose between Trump or Clinton.

 

Still the best because we still had the choice.

 

Have you seen some of the loons in European governments?

[B-Man]

 

[Hedge]

This is an ongoing situation as of right now ( ~2:30 Pacific).

Thread.

At the moment, it seems to have been a drug bust gone bad.

 

Live coverage (not sure why the imbed is posting like this, but you can easily then click to watch it on YouTube directly):

 

The live stream is probably being reported to be on 8chan...

 

 

The above tweet doesn’t appear to have been accurate as it’s now 6pm Pacific and the situation is ongoing.

 

 

Hours later, it's finally over with the suspect giving up and exiting the home. No fatalities.

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Hedge

[Wacka]

On 8/10/2019 at 12:35 PM, row_33 said:

 

Our immigration policies have brought great societal contributors from India and Hong Kong and other Asian countries.

 

 

 

You have to be a contributor and invest a healthy sum to get in, for the most part.

 

 

You've got better Indian and Chinese restaurants.?

[row_33]

57 minutes ago, Wacka said:

You've got better Indian and Chinese restaurants.?

 

No contest

[B-Man]

 

 

Nearly 200 House Dems Now Support Bill Outlawing All New Semiautomatic Weapons. 

 

“Showing absolutely no clue what she’s talking about, Florida Democrat Frederica Wilson told The Hill on Wednesday, ‘Assault weapons were designed for one purpose: to kill people in war. Ordinary citizens should not own or have access to assault weapons.’

 

A .22 target pistol is now an ‘assault weapon.’ Good to know, Congresscritter!”

 

Read the whole thing.

 

 

.