Jameis Winston on track to be just like Big Ben?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Winston may be innocent, or there may be ambiguity about consent.

 

linky

 

But it's disheartening to hear the repeated "protect the football star" theme from the police. Whatever the story of the night in question, the woman's family is reporting from the police rings true. When will parents, teachers, and law enforcement learn that it does these guys no good in the long run to be protected from the results of their actions as juveniles and youngsters.

 

A bit of "tough love" certainly appears to have helped Kiko Alonso get his priorities straight. What if the police had gone to the couple whose home he invaded and told them "oh, don't press any charges, this is a big football town and your life will be miserable if you do" and covered it up? Would he be the amazing guy we see, or would he have become just another talented player who lacks the work ethic and discipline to make it big.

 

Maybe if Ryan Leaf got smacked down good and hard the first time he stepped out of line with violating team rules or local laws re: drugs/alcohol, he would have become a quality player or at least a decent human being instead of the pathetic broke drug abusing loser he is today. etc etc.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

I'm with you, Hopeful.

 

Jock-sniffing police and public officials, and craven university administrators, are not doing these young men any favors.

[Leelee Phoenix]

It would be nice, but the football star makes money for people, including the State.

[NickelCity]

Jock-sniffing police and public officials, and craven university administrators, are not doing these young men any favors.

 

defensive wes craven??

[section122]

While I agree with the idea that Athletes are pampered and spoiled if you think this has anything to do with anything but the Heisman you are mistaken.

 

 

"We are not surprised with the results of the DNA," he said, according to USA Today. "We voluntarily submitted to a DNA. The only thing we are surprised by is it was leaked out by law enforcement. The question the people should ask is, why is it being leaked? For what purpose?"

 

Sexual assault cases are hard enough to prove immediately. 11 months later? It'll be a stretch. That said he most certainly will be negatively affected in the Heisman race. The timing is more than a coincidence imo.

[VADC Bills]

Just like Big Ben...only with out a contract.

[H2o]

Terrible because he seems like a likeable kid. No one knows the truth on innocence here, but God, Jameis, and the girl. Still sad that all of this is coming to light.

 

Likely, true or not, it has cost him the Heisman also.

[Rob's House]

I'm with you, Hopeful.

 

Jock-sniffing police and public officials, and craven university administrators, are not doing these young men any favors.

I will have to say, getting a guy off a rape charge is a pretty big favor.

 

BTW, I dig your word usage

 

Do we even know anything about what happened here, other than a dispute over whether sex was conseual? If not, not sure how you can compare Winston's situation to anyone else.

It's the way of the world. Pick a side, then wait for the evidence to prove you're right. I almost started a thread yesterday to say I was proud of people for not jumping the gun on this.

[Peter]

I have no idea whether he did it or not. I do find it interesting that it seems that the local police treated this case the way they did. I also noticed today that the alleged victim's name is all over the internet now. I will not post it. One reason it may have been leaked is to try to get whatever dirt they can on her to try to make this go away/defend the case.

 

Again, I have no idea what happened here. Either way (whether he did it or is being falsely accused), it is a tragedy.

[Rob's House]

The police could have a defensible position here, it's really hard to say based on what's come out. The news depicts the police telling the girl that he's a big deal to the school, and that it's a big college town, as though they were trying to encourage her to !@#$ off. While that may be the case, it's entirely possible, likely even, that they were simply making sure she knew what she was getting into for her own sake.

 

Once something like this blows up, the police can't do a thing to help her from the media firestorm and potential notoriety that comes with it. It would actually be irresponsible of them not to give her fair warning regarding the situation she'd be facing.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Rob's House

[Hapless Bills Fan]

While I agree with the idea that Athletes are pampered and spoiled if you think this has anything to do with anything but the Heisman you are mistaken.

 

 

"We are not surprised with the results of the DNA," he said, according to USA Today. "We voluntarily submitted to a DNA. The only thing we are surprised by is it was leaked out by law enforcement. The question the people should ask is, why is it being leaked? For what purpose?"

 

Sexual assault cases are hard enough to prove immediately. 11 months later? It'll be a stretch. That said he most certainly will be negatively affected in the Heisman race. The timing is more than a coincidence imo.

 

It's not a coincidence, but it's probably not driven by what you think.

 

The case was on the books as "Open - Inactive". By Florida law, that meant media could request the records. When the requests were received, the police decided they had "new evidence" (consisting of requesting a DNA sample and testing?) so the case is now "Open - Active" and the records are sealed.

 

In other words, having the case "Open - Active" is actually potentially favorable towards Winston since that means the records can not be obtained by the media.

 

The police could have a defensible position here, it's really hard to say based on what's come out. The news depicts the police telling the girl that he's a big deal to the school, and that it's a big college town, as though they were trying to encourage her to !@#$ off. While that may be the case, it's entirely possible, likely even, that they were simply making sure she knew what she was getting into for her own sake.

 

Once something like this blows up, the police can't do a thing to help her from the media firestorm and potential notoriety that comes with it. It would actually be irresponsible of them not to give her fair warning regarding the situation she'd be facing.

 

Hasenfeffer. The job of the police is to investigate alleged crimes, determine if there is sufficient evidence that a crime took place to send to the court, collect evidence, and arrest criminals. They are not a "victim's rights" organization, they should not be "playing" one - and any attempt by the police to "warn" the victim of the consequences of pursuing an accusation, especially an accusation of a sexual assault, has the appearance of an attempt to intimidate/exert undue influence.

 

To give the victim a realistic picture of what pursuing the case will entail, is the job of victim's rights organizations and the victim's lawyers - in no way is it appropriate for the police, except to the extent of providing referrals to legitimate victim's rights organizations and recommending that she retain an attorney if she hasn't.

[peterpan]

I agree. Rape allegations like this are also the worst to sort out, it's almost entirely he said, she said. Then add on it all the politics. The duke lacrosse scandal comes to mind.

 

A friend of mine was on that team, he actually filmed the entire event, and his camera was confiscated by police. They still charged the team anyways, and he never did get his camera back.

 

Outside of that event, I have seen first hand intoxicated women be all about it one night, and then the next day or weekend try to claim they were assaulted.

 

So forgive me if I am a septic here, but two sworn affidavits seem to clear the kids name. If it truly is assault, then it should be made a deal right then and there, not weeks or months later. Besides, right or wrong kids like Winston get chicks throwing themselves at them night and day. I have a hard time believing he has to assault someone for some action.

[bbb]

I can't figure out the details on this case. What is the reason charges, etc. were not pursued last December.........And, what is the reason this is all being brought up now?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Outside of that event, I have seen first hand intoxicated women be all about it one night, and then the next day or weekend try to claim they were assaulted.

 

I know there are young fellas reading this group, and education is good:

1) rape is defined as sex without consent.

2) intoxicated people are legally considered to be unable to render meaningful consent - not to joining the army (at least in this day and age), not to signing over $3 million, not to sex.

Good description of the legalities here.

 

That is all, I will not debate the rest.

[justnzane]

I know there are young fellas reading this group, and education is good:

1) rape is defined as sex without consent.

2) intoxicated people are legally considered to be unable to render meaningful consent - not to joining the army (at least in this day and age), not to signing over $3 million, not to sex.

Good description of the legalities here.

 

That is all, I will not debate the rest.

Sage advice. Now the biggest ambiguity I argue is that if both parties are drunk, than why does the "rape" usually go one way and not the other?

[Big Turk]

Oh you mean having hot chicks throw themselves at you, then later say they didn't know what was going on? Please

 

 

Sage advice. Now the biggest ambiguity I argue is that if both parties are drunk, than why does the "rape" usually go one way and not the other?

 

Probably cause its assumed that a women is not strong enough to pin a man down and force him to have sex against his will where a man would be...now if the guy is passed out that's a different story

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I can't figure out the details on this case. What is the reason charges, etc. were not pursued last December.........And, what is the reason this is all being brought up now?

 

If you really want to know, here is a good link and here is the statement by the victim's family.

 

1040EZ summary:

1) according to the police, the case was not pursued after Feb. because the victim informed them she no longer wished to pursue charges and could not be contacted

2) according to the victim's attorney, she sent a letter informing the police that she was representing the victim and giving contact information and this is untrue

3) for whatever reason, the case was classified as "Open - Inactive" in February. This status means media can request the records of the case.

4) this fall, media requested the records of the case, leading to

a) the victim's attorney being contacted per policy - who requested that records NOT be released under the Florida Rape Shield law

b) routine review by law enforcement prior to releasing said records

5) law enforcement review determined that the case should be re-classified as "Open -Active" thus sealing the records from release

6) reclassification formally requires that new evidence come to light or further investigation be required.

 

Anything else appears to be speculation at this point.

 

How the media learned that there was a case with records to request, is at this time an un-answered question. Any number of parties had information they could have leaked.

 

The timing suggests it is linked to the Heisman.

[NoSaint]

 

 

I know there are young fellas reading this group, and education is good:

1) rape is defined as sex without consent.

2) intoxicated people are legally considered to be unable to render meaningful consent - not to joining the army (at least in this day and age), not to signing over $3 million, not to sex.

Good description of the legalities here.

 

That is all, I will not debate the rest.

Additionally, she called within an hour of the incident, not weeks or months later and was not found to be legally drunk when taken to the hospital that night.

[bbb]

If you really want to know, here is a good link and here is the statement by the victim's family.

 

1040EZ summary:

1) according to the police, the case was not pursued after Feb. because the victim informed them she no longer wished to pursue charges and could not be contacted

2) according to the victim's attorney, she sent a letter informing the police that she was representing the victim and giving contact information and this is untrue

3) for whatever reason, the case was classified as "Open - Inactive" in February. This status means media can request the records of the case.

4) this fall, media requested the records of the case, leading to

a) the victim's attorney being contacted per policy - who requested that records NOT be released under the Florida Rape Shield law

b) routine review by law enforcement prior to releasing said records

5) law enforcement review determined that the case should be re-classified as "Open -Active" thus sealing the records from release

6) reclassification formally requires that new evidence come to light or further investigation be required.

 

Anything else appears to be speculation at this point.

 

How the media learned that there was a case with records to request, is at this time an un-answered question. Any number of parties had information they could have leaked.

 

The timing suggests it is linked to the Heisman.

 

Thank you!

[NoSaint]

 

 

If you really want to know, here is a good link and here is the statement by the victim's family.

 

1040EZ summary:

1) according to the police, the case was not pursued after Feb. because the victim informed them she no longer wished to pursue charges and could not be contacted

2) according to the victim's attorney, she sent a letter informing the police that she was representing the victim and giving contact information and this is untrue

3) for whatever reason, the case was classified as "Open - Inactive" in February. This status means media can request the records of the case.

4) this fall, media requested the records of the case, leading to

a) the victim's attorney being contacted per policy - who requested that records NOT be released under the Florida Rape Shield law

b) routine review by law enforcement prior to releasing said records

5) law enforcement review determined that the case should be re-classified as "Open -Active" thus sealing the records from release

6) reclassification formally requires that new evidence come to light or further investigation be required.

 

Anything else appears to be speculation at this point.

 

How the media learned that there was a case with records to request, is at this time an un-answered question. Any number of parties had information they could have leaked.

 

The timing suggests it is linked to the Heisman.

 

The obvious rumors floating around is the media was tipped by a former Florida coach that would have big connections in the area, and interest in an fsu loss. This is certainly not helped by the reporter that broke it making ambiguous statements that point to the source being football related.

[bbb]

Probably cause its assumed that a women is not strong enough to pin a man down and force him to have sex against his will where a man would be...now if the guy is passed out that's a different story

 

That is not what is being said or what the law is about. Nobody has do any pinning or forcing. From what I can tell the girl can be totally into and because she was bombed it is considered rape - can't consent when you're bombed.

 

Which I do believe means pretty much all of us should be in jail.

[Mr. WEO]

Winston may be innocent, or there may be ambiguity about consent.

 

 

For most women, I would bet that an evening of consensual sex doesn't end with a rape kit. In this case it did.

 

 

While I agree with the idea that Athletes are pampered and spoiled if you think this has anything to do with anything but the Heisman you are mistaken.

 

 

That said he most certainly will be negatively affected in the Heisman race. The timing is more than a coincidence imo.

 

Really? This came out now to ruin his chances of winning the Heisman? I know Nov 22 (and the 50th anniversary no less) puts many in the mood for a conspiracy theory or two, but this one's out there...

 

Likely, true or not, it has cost him the Heisman also.

 

Who cares? It's a useless award quickly forgotten by next year and bestowed on countless players who busted out in the NFL.

 

 

I agree. Rape allegations like this are also the worst to sort out, it's almost entirely he said, she said. Then add on it all the politics. The duke lacrosse scandal comes to mind.

 

That woman has jsut been arrested for stabbing her boyfriend to death.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Mr. WEO

[bbb]

Actually, she was just convicted of the murder.

[Mr. WEO]

If you really want to know, here is a good link and here is the statement by the victim's family.

 

1040EZ summary:

1) according to the police, the case was not pursued after Feb. because the victim informed them she no longer wished to pursue charges and could not be contacted

.

 

According to her lawyer, she stopped cooperating after that helpful talk with the police letting her know how hard it would be on her to pursue a rape charge in that town---and that they were refusing to request a DNA specimen from Winston. Seems like she gave up at that point, figuring the odds were stacked agaisnt her.

 

Actually, she was just convicted of the murder.

 

You are correct.

[4merper4mer]

Just like Big Ben...only with out a contract.

 

Did Winston have a private area set up to liquor up and vet potential victims and a very large guard to keep the victim's friends separated from her and force her to be alone in a separate room with no exit just like Ben?

[TH3]

 

 

A friend of mine was on that team, he actually filmed the entire event, and his camera was confiscated by police. They still charged the team anyways, and he never did get his camera back.

 

Outside of that event, I have seen first hand intoxicated women be all about it one night, and then the next day or weekend try to claim they were assaulted.

 

So forgive me if I am a septic here, but two sworn affidavits seem to clear the kids name. If it truly is assault, then it should be made a deal right then and there, not weeks or months later. Besides, right or wrong kids like Winston get chicks throwing themselves at them night and day. I have a hard time believing he has to assault someone for some action.

 

Wow...the aspect in this case that gives me pause is she went to the hospital, reported an assault, and had a rape examination done. I would think that this is not pleasent and not something that would be undertaken unless the girl truly felt assaulted.

 

[mannc]

 

 

I agree. Rape allegations like this are also the worst to sort out, it's almost entirely he said, she said. Then add on it all the politics. The duke lacrosse scandal comes to mind.

No, the Duke lacrosse scandal was definitively proven to be a hoax, like Tawana Brawley. It was not, ultimately, a "he said she said" situation.

[bbb]

Wow...the aspect in this case that gives me pause is she went to the hospital, reported an assault, and had a rape examination done. I would think that this is not pleasent and not something that would be undertaken unless the girl truly felt assaulted.

 

Could it be another case like that top college prospect where the white girl didn't want it to get out that she was with a black guy, and claimed rape?

[aristocrat]

He denied even being with the girl all along until the dna test correct? I seem to remember him claiming to have an alibi proven by two witnesses. Can somebody confirm this? If he denied all along and now is claiming consent the guilt meter leans a little towards yes.

[KD in CA]

Just like Big Ben in that no one has any idea what really happened but that's not going to stop them from jumping to conclusions anyway?

[Doc]

I'm usually skeptical about women who claim rape against prominent athletes, but this doesn't look good for Winston.

[bbb]

He denied even being with the girl all along until the dna test correct? I seem to remember him claiming to have an alibi proven by two witnesses. Can somebody confirm this? If he denied all along and now is claiming consent the guilt meter leans a little towards yes.

 

If what you're saying is true, I have to agree with your assessment.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

I agree with aristocrat, but he is helped a lot by the dilatory police behavior, which will make it harder to establish the facts.

[Doc]

I agree with aristocrat, but he is helped a lot by the dilatory police behavior, which will make it harder to establish the facts.

He won't be helped by the police. If anything, the police are also going to be screwed.

[Mr. WEO]

He won't be helped by the police. If anything, the police are also going to be screwed.

The police already tried to help when they threw in "assailant was 5'9'--5'11" in the police report. I'm surprised they didn't just put "albino dwarf".

Edited November 24, 2013 by Mr. WEO

[Hapless Bills Fan]

That is not what is being said or what the law is about. Nobody has do any pinning or forcing. From what I can tell the girl can be totally into and because she was bombed it is considered rape - can't consent when you're bombed.

 

Which I do believe means pretty much all of us should be in jail.

 

If "pretty much all of you(r acquaintance)" have sex with strangerswho are so blitzed or buzzed that their ability to consent is in question, or while so blitzed or buzzed yourselves that your ability to assess this is nil..........

 

............................pretty much.

[bbb]

If "pretty much all of you(r acquaintance)" have sex with strangerswho are so blitzed or buzzed that their ability to consent is in question, or while so blitzed or buzzed yourselves that your ability to assess this is nil..........

 

............................pretty much.

 

Do you remember college?

[thewildrabbit]

I'm thinking this woman wants to keep this "inactive" until this QB gets drafted in the first round so she can then make a claim.

[Bill from NYC]

 

He won't be helped by the police. If anything, the police are also going to be screwed.

 

Maybe so. I don't understand why she blames the police for telling her that going forward with charges is a big deal. Did she not know this until she asked a detective? There are many other unanswered questions as well. For instance, I would like to know if any person from FSU made contact with the victim.

 

I don't have enough info to form an opinion. This, and I am still sick to my stomach about Penn State.

 

 

[NoSaint]

I'm thinking this woman wants to keep this "inactive" until this QB gets drafted in the first round so she can then make a claim.

 

Good call - she probably planned this so 3-4 years later when the kid who hadn't played a snap yet gets drafted in the first round she could get rich.

 

 

 

Maybe so. I don't understand why she blames the police for telling her that going forward with charges is a big deal. Did she not know this until she asked a detective? There are many other unanswered questions as well. For instance, I would like to know if any person from FSU made contact with the victim.

 

I don't have enough info to form an opinion. This, and I am still sick to my stomach about Penn State.

 

I'm sure you could see that this message conveyed from a friend could be very different than a police officer who you may already think is in your attackers corner?

 

(Of course the disclaimer that I'm not arguing jameis is an attacker, just saying if you take her story at face value, that part isn't that strange)

Edited November 26, 2013 by NoSaint