EJ vs. Russell Wilson's First 3 NFL Starts

[KDIGGZ]

I looked up Peyton Manning's stats from his first 3 games for another thread...

 

Peyton Manning was 0-3 to start his rookie season and in those games only completed 54% of his passes for 683 yards 2 td's and 8 int's.

 

The moral of the story is you can't base your opinion on someone after 3 games their rookie year. Or if you can then our QB is going to be better than Peyton Manning some day so yay!!

[RuntheDamnBall]

Exactly. Thats why you have to watch the game, unlike all the bozos here who just look at the box score. Are you in the market for a used van, by any chance? I'll be getting baked in the utility closet, but afterwards maybe we can talk financing?

LMAO.

[YoloinOhio]

You know, teammates see that and respond. They see a leader, being born before their very eyes.

He only makes about 500k/year too... another reason why Seattle has been able to load up on talent around him. Helps to land a franchise QB in the 3rd round post-CBA.

[RuntheDamnBall]

He only makes about 500k/year too... another reason why Seattle has been able to load up on talent around him. Helps to land a franchise QB in the 3rd round post-CBA.

So are you saying that the donation to the refs was an empty gesture? Every little bit counts, if it comes from the heart.

[MDH]

He only makes about 500k/year too... another reason why Seattle has been able to load up on talent around him. Helps to land a franchise QB in the 3rd round post-CBA.

 

It also helps when a team spends the money they have under the cap. Seattle is about $2.5M under as opposed to Buffalo's $20M.

Edited September 25, 2013 by MDH

[mrags]

Let me start off by saying this doesn't mean Manuel will ever be as good as Wilson, but let's settle down a bit.

 

Wilson: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/25785/gamelog/?season=2012_2

43 of 75 (57.3%), 434 yards (144.7 yards/ game), 5.79 ypa, 4 tds to 1 INT, 1 fumble lost, Seattle averages 19 points/ game.

 

Also in his 4th start, Wilson threw 0 tds and 3 ints.

 

Manuel: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/26639/

64 of 108 (59.3%), 689 yards (229.7 yards/ game), 6.4 ypa, 4 tds to

1 ints, 1 fumble lost. 21.7 points

 

 

1) Both had 4td to 1 int ratio. IMO, this is one of the most important stats for a QB. You can win a lot of games with that ratio.

 

2) Seattle might have the best defense in the NFL. They carried that team while Wilson learned on the job. With their injuries, the Bills have struggled on D. Manuel has been asked to do much more.

 

3) 2 weeks of missing your 1st training camp is huge. Wilson had a whole training camp.

 

4) Let's all take a deep breath and relax.

thank you for this post. Putting everything into perspective is key. Regardless if there's additional reasons for the success of Wilson. The point is, everyone now looks at Wilson as a very good QB. He's certainly leading a wrecking ball through the NFL as we speak. Nobody thought he would be as good as he's been so far.

 

And with all that said, it's looking like even though they both have slow starts, EJ is looking better after just 3 games. He's made some mistakes, but he's also looked great at times (the comeback drive with 90 seconds left should make that point). He's had what looked to be a solid enough OL up until the Jet game and was hurried and pressured A LOT. 8 sacks is a ton I don't care who you are as a QB, if you get sacked 8 times, yiur going to get happy feet, yiur going to throw some bad balls away.

 

Not all young QBs come out like gangbusters. Guys like Payton Manning and Eli Manning come to mind. Both will be HOF QBs and both struggled early. It should teach is that even though the QB is the most important player on the field, if a young QB is out into a situation where the rest of the team might not be ready to win, they still struggle. As it happens, our OL will probably cost is some games. Our defense as well as they've played considering the injuries have kept us in games for sure, but also hemmorage rushing yards and still give up in my opinion is the worst thing a defense could do, the dreadful 3rd and long play for a 1st down.

 

The defense will get better as we start to get guys back like McKelvin, Gilmore, Byrd??? And we will be much better.

 

At the same time, the WR play has been inconsistent. Stevie dropping a 1st down that could have sealed the NE game. If it were for that we'd be 2-1 right now. With a win against the Pats. Funny how things would be so turned around about how EJ is playing if that happened.

 

We would have beat the Jets if EJ played better. Sure. We also would have won if Leo didnt get injured and Rogers give up over 200 yards and 2 TDs to the Jet WRs.

 

EJ has also done this with almost zero running game to help. CJ (our best offensive weapon) has looked atrocious. It could be the run blocking, the play calling, CJ getting happy feet and regressing to what he looked like his rookie season. It could be all 3 of them.

 

The fact is, EJ is going to have some good games, and some bad. He's made some horrible throws downfield, and also roped some passes into tight spots for big plays. He's going to learn. It's a long season. 13 more games to go. Lets all come back inside from the ledge and give this a chance before we start jumping off buildings here. People react way too much game to game. Not every QB comes in and lights up the stat sheet like Cam Newton or RG3. Some need time to settle.

 

Personally, after the horrible game against the Jets I'm really looking to see how this team, these coaches, EJ react to playing the Baltimore Ravens. Should be a good test. Can we shrug off a bad game and compete with the reigning SB champs? Or will we turtle and go into a hole. Should be a fun game to watch and see.

 

Thanks again for the rational thread.

[NoSaint]

heck, even the beloved colin kaepernick is 56% for 689 yards 3 tds and 4 ints (and 2 fumbles) in this, the start of his 3rd year.

 

sounds very familiar.

Edited September 25, 2013 by NoSaint

[K-9]

heck, even the beloved colin kaepernick is 56% for 689 yards 3 tds and 4 ints (and 2 fumbles) in this, the start of his 3rd year.

 

sounds very familiar.

 

And that's AFTER his 400 plus yard opening game this year. Seattle is in his head.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[YoloinOhio]

And that's AFTER his 400 plus yard opening game this year. Seattle is in his head.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I think Kap is very talented with a lot of upside and a very good team around him... but teams have now had almost a full year to watch film on him.

[RyanC883]

It also helps when a team spends the money they have under the cap. Seattle is about $2.5M under as opposed to Buffalo's $20M.

 

Wait, depth matters in the NFL? Like O-line depth for a young QB?!?!? Defensive depth so said young QB won't have to be asked to do everything. The Bill's cheapness this year is really upsetting. There were numerous FA G's available, and Reinheart, none were signed.

[mrags]

 

 

Wait, depth matters in the NFL? Like O-line depth for a young QB?!?!? Defensive depth so said young QB won't have to be asked to do everything. The Bill's cheapness this year is really upsetting. There were numerous FA G's available, and Reinheart, none were signed.

Rhinehardt would have been huge to keep. Very surprised because we let Levitre walk that we didnt sign Chad. Would have been a minimal drop off considering compared to what were seeing.

[offyourocker]

Let me start off by saying this doesn't mean Manuel will ever be as good as Wilson, but let's settle down a bit.

 

Wilson: http://sports.yahoo..../?season=2012_2

43 of 75 (57.3%), 434 yards (144.7 yards/ game), 5.79 ypa, 4 tds to 1 INT, 1 fumble lost, Seattle averages 19 points/ game.

 

Also in his 4th start, Wilson threw 0 tds and 3 ints.

 

Manuel: http://sports.yahoo..../players/26639/

64 of 108 (59.3%), 689 yards (229.7 yards/ game), 6.4 ypa, 4 tds to

1 ints, 1 fumble lost. 21.7 points

 

 

1) Both had 4td to 1 int ratio. IMO, this is one of the most important stats for a QB. You can win a lot of games with that ratio.

 

2) Seattle might have the best defense in the NFL. They carried that team while Wilson learned on the job. With their injuries, the Bills have struggled on D. Manuel has been asked to do much more.

 

3) 2 weeks of missing your 1st training camp is huge. Wilson had a whole training camp.

 

4) Let's all take a deep breath and relax.

 

 

Great Post

[K-9]

Rhinehardt would have been huge to keep. Very surprised because we let Levitre walk that we didnt sign Chad. Would have been a minimal drop off considering compared to what were seeing.

 

Rhinehardt was intent on following D'Alessandris to San Diego. Little chance of getting him to stay, I think. But that $1.25m wasn't gonna be a deal breaker and he'd look better than what we have for sure.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[ganesh]

Here's what i need to see from EJ this week. Forget the stats, i want to see him throw a 25 yd frozen rope down the middle of the field, in a tight window, for a completion. So far his best completion, by a mile is that corner endzone pass to Stevie in the NE game. So he's like 2 for 12 on those fade passes with several going out of bounds. Everything else has been short or to a wide open guy standing there.

Guys like Losman and Trent were exposed as frauds because they couldn't throw down the middle of the field in tight coverage. Guys like Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Peyton, Wilson, etc...are pretty good at it!

 

That is not true...The 2 pt conversion to Woods for a laser sharp throw in a pretty tight window.

[MDH]

That is not true...The 2 pt conversion to Woods for a laser sharp throw in a pretty tight window.

 

Yeah, it was. The 17 yard pass to Chandler this week was also a really nice throw. He's had a number of really nice throws.

[Nitro]

Baltimore is going to bring heat on EJ. He has a good pocket presence and will have to trust the line. All I want to see is better sideline throws. The WRs have to get separation on their routes to make it easier on EJ. This game will be a good test for the Offense.

[Jauronimo]

Baltimore is going to bring heat on EJ. He has a good pocket presence and will have to trust the line. All I want to see is better sideline throws. The WRs have to get separation on their routes to make it easier on EJ. This game will be a good test for the Offense.

I thought he looked pretty lost in the pocket last week, but games 1 and 2 I was impressed.

[thebandit27]

Wait, depth matters in the NFL? Like O-line depth for a young QB?!?!? Defensive depth so said young QB won't have to be asked to do everything. The Bill's cheapness this year is really upsetting. There were numerous FA G's available, and Reinheart, none were signed.

 

It's not cheapness; it's the simple fact that the new staff (both coaching and FO) wanted to see what they had before they went out and spent money. That's why nobody got long-term deals (save for Wood, who's a top 4 center in this league).

[MDH]

I thought he looked pretty lost in the pocket last week, but games 1 and 2 I was impressed.

 

Yeah, he caused at least 3 of those sacks by moving into the pressure. One of them was even a JPesque run out of bounds a yard behind the LoS sack. I expect he'll get much better once the game starts slowing down for him.

Edited September 25, 2013 by MDH

[HeHateMe]

It's so early to judge EJ.. Honestly he has played well so far. The Jets game was bad, he had no help from his team or with the play-calling.

 

It will take 8 or so games for us to really get a feel for him.. These receivers are all young with Stevie the exception.. Rookie O-coordinator trying to figure it out on the fly... missing half the preseason and all those reps + coming off knee surgery...

 

I think he will be fine.

[NoName]

Let me start off by saying this doesn't mean Manuel will ever be as good as Wilson, but let's settle down a bit.

 

Wilson: http://sports.yahoo..../?season=2012_2

43 of 75 (57.3%), 434 yards (144.7 yards/ game), 5.79 ypa, 4 tds to 1 INT, 1 fumble lost, Seattle averages 19 points/ game.

 

Also in his 4th start, Wilson threw 0 tds and 3 ints.

 

Manuel: http://sports.yahoo..../players/26639/

64 of 108 (59.3%), 689 yards (229.7 yards/ game), 6.4 ypa, 4 tds to

1 ints, 1 fumble lost. 21.7 points

 

 

1) Both had 4td to 1 int ratio. IMO, this is one of the most important stats for a QB. You can win a lot of games with that ratio.

 

2) Seattle might have the best defense in the NFL. They carried that team while Wilson learned on the job. With their injuries, the Bills have struggled on D. Manuel has been asked to do much more.

 

3) 2 weeks of missing your 1st training camp is huge. Wilson had a whole training camp.

 

4) Let's all take a deep breath and relax.

I found this post very helpful. I was really hard on E.J. Good reminder to stay patient and give the guy time.

[RCOHEN13]

Here's what i need to see from EJ this week. Forget the stats, i want to see him throw a 25 yd frozen rope down the middle of the field, in a tight window, for a completion. So far his best completion, by a mile is that corner endzone pass to Stevie in the NE game. So he's like 2 for 12 on those fade passes with several going out of bounds. Everything else has been short or to a wide open guy standing there.

Guys like Losman and Trent were exposed as frauds because they couldn't throw down the middle of the field in tight coverage. Guys like Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Peyton, Wilson, etc...are pretty good at it!

 

I think his best completion was in 4th Quarter to Chandler for like 17. He stood up in pocket and threw across field and led Chandler perfectly in good coverage and Chandler caught it right above defender in perfect position to get out of bounds and save clock .

 

May not have had the result of Stevie's or the result of his TD to Chandler where he has pretty wide open but that throw is a NFL type throw that a QB has to have the ability to make.

[Flip Johnson]

I found this post very helpful. I was really hard on E.J. Good reminder to stay patient and give the guy time.

 

Could not agree more. EJ is "managing the game" as a rookie but he possesses the physical tools to dominate the game.

 

No one wants the game manager. The thing is that was Trent's ceiling. If EJ can limit his turnovers now he could gradually progress thru the course of the season while giving his team a chance to win as he develops. Despite his struggles vs. NYJ that has happened so far.

[Wayne Cubed]

But why stop at just Wilson for perspective, lets look at Andrew Luck, who is supposedly the second coming of Peyton Manning, through the first 3 weeks last year:

 

Andrew Luck

65 of 122 (53.3%), 846 yards (282 yards/game), 6.9 YPA, 5 TDs to 4 Ints, 1 fum lost, 20.3 points

 

W-L: 1-2

 

So, are his numbers that much higher than Manuel, considering his status as the overall #1 pick? IMO no. Manuel has completed one less pass on 14 less attempts. His TD/INT ratio is much better. The Colt's loses came agains Chicago and Jacksonville. There win came against Minnesota.

 

Seems people in Indy were pretty pleased with his games at the beginning of the season.

[mrags]

 

 

Could not agree more. EJ is "managing the game" as a rookie but he possesses the physical tools to dominate the game.

 

No one wants the game manager. The thing is that was Trent's ceiling. If EJ can limit his turnovers now he could gradually progress thru the course of the season while giving his team a chance to win as he develops. Despite his struggles vs. NYJ that has happened so far.

this is a great post.

 

Trent's ceiling was his management.

 

EJ is a physical specimen. Has all the tools to become a very good QB. Right now is the time to focus on not making mistakes. Eventually his comfort level will increase, the game will slow down, and his minimal mistakes will seem even better when he's comfortable taking more risks, but the right risks.

[YoloinOhio]

It is funny how different fan bases look at their QBs. Here in Ohio, the sports radio is hand-wringing over Andy Dalton because despite him taking the Bengals to the playoffs two years in a row which the Bengals had never done before, they don't know if he can really become the franchise QB because he hasn't shown he can lead him team down the field in crunch time and score when the game is on the line. They want that more than anything.

Edited September 25, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo

[C.Biscuit97]

To update. Russell Wilson is looking like a borderline top 5 QB this year.

 

EJ (8 games) 145 for 249, 58.2%, 1,595 yards, 6.41 ypa, 9 tds, 4 ints, 82.7 QB rating, 38 rushes for 120 yards, 3.2 ypc, 1 td, 2 fumbles. Win-Loss record, which is a very flawed stat and includes the Cleveland game he didn't even finish,: 3-5. http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15803/ej-manuel

 

Wilson's (first 8 games) 129 for 210 (61.4%), 1,466, 6.98 ypa, 10 tds, 8 ints, 36 rushes for 128 yards, 3.6 ypc, 0 tds, couldn't get a break down of fumbles and I don't know how to do QB rating. Win-Loss record: 4-4.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/14881/year/2012/russell-wilson

 

Congrats. Some of you would have been calling to draft another Qb if we had drafted Russell freakin' Wilson after 8 games. Let's simmer down a bit on Mr. Manuel.

[Jauronimo]

To update. Russell Wilson is looking like a borderline top 5 QB this year.

 

EJ (8 games) 145 for 249, 58.2%, 1,595 yards, 6.41 ypa, 9 tds, 4 ints, 82.7 QB rating, 38 rushes for 120 yards, 3.2 ypc, 1 td, 2 fumbles. Win-Loss record, which is a very flawed stat and includes the Cleveland game he didn't even finish,: 3-5. http://espn.go.com/n...15803/ej-manuel

 

Wilson's (first 8 games) 129 for 210 (61.4%), 1,466, 6.98 ypa, 10 tds, 8 ints, 36 rushes for 128 yards, 3.6 ypc, 0 tds, couldn't get a break down of fumbles and I don't know how to do QB rating. Win-Loss record: 4-4.

http://espn.go.com/n.../russell-wilson

 

Congrats. Some of you would have been calling to draft another Qb if we had drafted Russell freakin' Wilson after 8 games. Let's simmer down a bit on Mr. Manuel.

My friend Microscopes would like to have a word with you. Hes out back smoking a bowl. Call him at work in about 20 mins.

[YoloinOhio]

To update. Russell Wilson is looking like a borderline top 5 QB this year.

 

EJ (8 games) 145 for 249, 58.2%, 1,595 yards, 6.41 ypa, 9 tds, 4 ints, 82.7 QB rating, 38 rushes for 120 yards, 3.2 ypc, 1 td, 2 fumbles. Win-Loss record, which is a very flawed stat and includes the Cleveland game he didn't even finish,: 3-5. http://espn.go.com/n...15803/ej-manuel

 

Wilson's (first 8 games) 129 for 210 (61.4%), 1,466, 6.98 ypa, 10 tds, 8 ints, 36 rushes for 128 yards, 3.6 ypc, 0 tds, couldn't get a break down of fumbles and I don't know how to do QB rating. Win-Loss record: 4-4.

http://espn.go.com/n.../russell-wilson

 

Congrats. Some of you would have been calling to draft another Qb if we had drafted Russell freakin' Wilson after 8 games. Let's simmer down a bit on Mr. Manuel.

Also, RW was drafted later so being paid less but I don't think many had him graded any higher than EJ so I don't know why it is such a stretch to think EJ can be just as successful especially in his second year in the system next year. Also, EJ had the Bills in position to win 2 additional games - NE and ATL, and SJ dropped one and fumbled one. Neither loss was on EJ. So if he had a reliable WR there he is 5-3 and if you take away the Cleve loss since he was winning while he was in there and driving for more pts when he got hurt, he would be 5-2. Yeah - coulda woulda shoulda but that's the thin with W-L, it is not fair to pin it on a QB. I actually compared EJ to RW above the shoulders and EJ is way ahead in size. So I like his chances a lot. Edited December 5, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo

[Dibs]

To update. Russell Wilson is looking like a borderline top 5 QB this year.

 

EJ (8 games) 145 for 249, 58.2%, 1,595 yards, 6.41 ypa, 9 tds, 4 ints, 82.7 QB rating, 38 rushes for 120 yards, 3.2 ypc, 1 td, 2 fumbles. Win-Loss record, which is a very flawed stat and includes the Cleveland game he didn't even finish,: 3-5. http://espn.go.com/n...15803/ej-manuel

 

Wilson's (first 8 games) 129 for 210 (61.4%), 1,466, 6.98 ypa, 10 tds, 8 ints, 36 rushes for 128 yards, 3.6 ypc, 0 tds, couldn't get a break down of fumbles and I don't know how to do QB rating. Win-Loss record: 4-4.

http://espn.go.com/n.../russell-wilson

 

Congrats. Some of you would have been calling to draft another Qb if we had drafted Russell freakin' Wilson after 8 games. Let's simmer down a bit on Mr. Manuel.

 

Wilson QBR = 82.4

[Trader]

I like EJ quite a bit but the major flaw in his game, what causes him to be so innacurate, is his footwork. At times it's just horrible.

His legs are too long, He lacks Russell Wilson height!

Edited December 5, 2013 by Trader

[fridge]

To update. Russell Wilson is looking like a borderline top 5 QB this year.

 

EJ (8 games) 145 for 249, 58.2%, 1,595 yards, 6.41 ypa, 9 tds, 4 ints, 82.7 QB rating, 38 rushes for 120 yards, 3.2 ypc, 1 td, 2 fumbles. Win-Loss record, which is a very flawed stat and includes the Cleveland game he didn't even finish,: 3-5. http://espn.go.com/n...15803/ej-manuel

 

Wilson's (first 8 games) 129 for 210 (61.4%), 1,466, 6.98 ypa, 10 tds, 8 ints, 36 rushes for 128 yards, 3.6 ypc, 0 tds, couldn't get a break down of fumbles and I don't know how to do QB rating. Win-Loss record: 4-4.

http://espn.go.com/n.../russell-wilson

 

Congrats. Some of you would have been calling to draft another Qb if we had drafted Russell freakin' Wilson after 8 games. Let's simmer down a bit on Mr. Manuel.

 

Absolutely fantastic post. It would be unreal to me for anyone to refute this.

 

Not to mention when you compare Wilson's team to EJ's...

[BillsFanM.D.]

My 'hope' for EJ this year was to show progress and not appear 'overwhelmed' by the NFL game despite being asked to start as a rookie. So far, so good. People need to seriously relax. If any point of reference is needed, see NY Jets.

[GunnerBill]

But the Bills got it wrong they picked the wrong guy in the wrong year...... y'know we don't need stats to tell us that all we need to do is look back and see they got it wrong with Edwards and wrong with Losman and it becomes a logical absolute that they got it wrong with EJ.

 

Obviously......

 

 

On a serious note a very worthy topic. Although even us Manuel fans have to concede that stats alone are never conclusive.

Edited December 5, 2013 by GunnerBill

[BillsFanM.D.]

 

On a serious note a very worthy topic. Although even us Manuel fans have to concede that stats alone are never conclusive.

 

Heck...I'll go one step further. To your point, I thought Trent was going to be the guy. He played very well initially and showed a lot of stuff you can't measure in a stat sheet. Then it fell to pieces. Maybe it was him finding his mean; maybe it was the hit in AZ. Who knows?

 

All I know is that (currently) our team invested in a guy they believed in. So far, he has not been overwhelmed and I hope he progresses. I'm, as the saying goes, cautiously optimistic.

[Bangarang]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0zPAnyM0yO4

 

EJ isn't making plays like these yet. Can he? We'll see.

[Leelee Phoenix]

Congrats. Some of you would have been calling to draft another Qb if we had drafted Russell freakin' Wilson after 8 games. Let's simmer down a bit on Mr. Manuel.

I wouldn't have, nor would anyone who watches football whatsoever would have. Comparing silly stats like QB rating proves nothing.

 

You really like yourself some EJ, don't you homes

[MDH]

I wouldn't have, nor would anyone who watches football whatsoever would have. Comparing silly stats like QB rating proves nothing.

 

You really like yourself some EJ, don't you homes

 

Actually, I see absolutely nobody really liking EJ and having full faith in him. I see people willing to give him a chance which you interpret as "really liking."

 

On the other hand, there is a group of posters who are absolutely convinced he sucks and will never amount to anything - after half a season's worth of starts. Maybe those posters will end up being right but it's not because they know anything - it's too early to tell despite what you claim.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

Wilson QBR = 82.4

 

 

I wouldn't have, nor would anyone who watches football whatsoever would have. Comparing silly stats like QB rating proves nothing.

 

You really like yourself some EJ, don't you homes

 

You're so full of it. Everything is black and white for people with you. You absolutely are the type who you be trashing Wilson if he was the Bills QB and threw 10 tds to 8 ints, including games of barely throwing for 100 yards. It's so easy for you to sit back now that Wilson is a pro bowl QB to say you always knew he was good. You're the king of hindsight.

[RuntheDamnBall]

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=0zPAnyM0yO4

 

EJ isn't making plays like these yet. Can he? We'll see.

To be fair, there are a lot of decisive runs there that I am pretty sure EJ is being coached to avoid (whether this is wise, I am not sure). Also, there are some very wide open receivers there. On one of those the CB falls down, and on some others, the receiver is in open space. EJ hasn't been finding that so far.

 

In part, that's because Wilson's deep game is respected and it opens up the middle of the field, so if EJ can really hit a few more of those, the D will be forced to back off so that the game doesn't become a track meet.