EJ vs. Russell Wilson's First 3 NFL Starts

[C.Biscuit97]

But the Bills got it wrong they picked the wrong guy in the wrong year...... y'know we don't need stats to tell us that all we need to do is look back and see they got it wrong with Edwards and wrong with Losman and it becomes a logical absolute that they got it wrong with EJ.

 

Obviously......

 

 

On a serious note a very worthy topic. Although even us Manuel fans have to concede that stats alone are never conclusive.

 

My whole point is perspective. Personally, as long as guy isn't a complete scumbag, I'll root for him since I'm a Bills fan first. I think Manuel is a very easy guy to like and the world would be a better place if more people carried themselves like him. But if it sucks, then he needs to be replaced. This whole thread is to show that overreacting after 8 games, either way, is sort of nuts.

 

I know this sounds crazy but I compare this to the President. I obviously wanted a certain guy to win. However, if my guy doesn't win, I'm still rooting for the guy who won to succeed because I'm an American first of all and want the best for this country. There are those people (and they tend to be the loudest voices) who wish for someone to fail so they can be right. I find this attitude to be pathetic. For example, I think Jeff Tuel isn't a very good QB and I've stated such (basically, I can't really point to him ever being successful as a starting QB going back to college). However, I rooted for him like crazy to beat the Chiefs and wanted to be proven wrong. Far too often, it is more important to be right on this board.

[Dorkington]

My whole point is perspective. Personally, as long as guy isn't a complete scumbag, I'll root for him since I'm a Bills fan first. I think Manuel is a very easy guy to like and the world would be a better place if more people carried themselves like him. But if it sucks, then he needs to be replaced. This whole thread is to show that overreacting after 8 games, either way, is sort of nuts.

 

I know this sounds crazy but I compare this to the President. I obviously wanted a certain guy to win. However, if my guy doesn't win, I'm still rooting for the guy who won to succeed because I'm an American first of all and want the best for this country. There are those people (and they tend to be the loudest voices) who wish for someone to fail so they can be right. I find this attitude to be pathetic. For example, I think Jeff Tuel isn't a very good QB and I've stated such (basically, I can't really point to him ever being successful as a starting QB going back to college). However, I rooted for him like crazy to beat the Chiefs and wanted to be proven wrong. Far too often, it is more important to be right on this board.

 

Well said.

[Meatloaf Sandwich]

EJ vs Himself.... Doesn't look good so far, injuries, inconsistent, accuracy issues, footwork.

[GunnerBill]

My whole point is perspective. Personally, as long as guy isn't a complete scumbag, I'll root for him since I'm a Bills fan first. I think Manuel is a very easy guy to like and the world would be a better place if more people carried themselves like him. But if it sucks, then he needs to be replaced. This whole thread is to show that overreacting after 8 games, either way, is sort of nuts.

 

I know this sounds crazy but I compare this to the President. I obviously wanted a certain guy to win. However, if my guy doesn't win, I'm still rooting for the guy who won to succeed because I'm an American first of all and want the best for this country. There are those people (and they tend to be the loudest voices) who wish for someone to fail so they can be right. I find this attitude to be pathetic. For example, I think Jeff Tuel isn't a very good QB and I've stated such (basically, I can't really point to him ever being successful as a starting QB going back to college). However, I rooted for him like crazy to beat the Chiefs and wanted to be proven wrong. Far too often, it is more important to be right on this board.

 

And I agree with you. Except about the President.... cos hey he ain't the boss of me.... although I'll swap you our current Prime Minister for your current President if you like?

[C.Biscuit97]

And I agree with you. Except about the President.... cos hey he ain't the boss of me.... although I'll swap you our current Prime Minister for your current President if you like?

 

 

I just think society as whole has too many people who root for folks to fail. But I'm a glass half full kinda guy. It sucks being optimistic.

[Dorkington]

 

I just think society as whole has too many people who root for folks to fail. But I'm a glass half full kinda guy. It sucks being optimistic.

 

I'm not an optimistic person, but I am a "bigger picture" person. So that's why I agree with your post.

[starrymessenger]

 

 

I didn't get the Wilson hype before the draft but I'm sold. He has everything you want in a franchise QB except height.

He is likely the MVP front runner.

He is the real deal.

I think he's as good as Luck even if he's not 6'4" and 235lbs.

I never thought I would say that.

[ALLEN1QB]

My main problem with EJ is that he seems hesitant to throw down field. We don't need another Capt checkdown.

[Mr. WEO]

Congrats. Some of you would have been calling to draft another Qb if we had drafted Russell freakin' Wilson after 8 games. Let's simmer down a bit on Mr. Manuel.

 

After going 4-2 in his first 6 games and lighting up NE for 3 TDs and almost 300 yards in the air in game 6?

 

I doubt that.

[C.Biscuit97]

After going 4-2 in his first 6 games and lighting up NE for 3 TDs and almost 300 yards in the air in game 6?

 

I doubt that.

 

I get what you do here. You have to find that small piece you can pick at. Again, if anyone strictly uses W-L record to judge Qbs, they're stupid. In his first 8 stats, Russell Wilson passed 160 yards or less 5 times.

[Bronc24]

Good topic. I am in the Manuel camp. As many know, under my former moniker of Marauder24 I was somewhat critical of Pickspatrick. I see the glass half full with EJ and enjoyed seeing him rebound after the Steelers fiasco.

 

Though he didn't put up great last week, he had us in position to win the game twice.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Bronc24

[Mr. WEO]

I get what you do here. You have to find that small piece you can pick at. Again, if anyone strictly uses W-L record to judge Qbs, they're stupid. In his first 8 stats, Russell Wilson passed 160 yards or less 5 times.

 

Small piece? I was simply saying that if Wilson won 4 of his first 6 games including a great win against NE, very few pwoplw would have been calling for a new QB 2 weeks later.

 

So...I'm disagreeing with your entire premise (not a small peice of it), if that's allowed.

[Solomon Grundy]

Let me start off by saying this doesn't mean Manuel will ever be as good as Wilson, but let's settle down a bit.

 

Wilson: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/25785/gamelog/?season=2012_2

43 of 75 (57.3%), 434 yards (144.7 yards/ game), 5.79 ypa, 4 tds to 1 INT, 1 fumble lost, Seattle averages 19 points/ game.

 

Also in his 4th start, Wilson threw 0 tds and 3 ints.

 

Manuel: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/26639/

64 of 108 (59.3%), 689 yards (229.7 yards/ game), 6.4 ypa, 4 tds to

1 ints, 1 fumble lost. 21.7 points

 

 

1) Both had 4td to 1 int ratio. IMO, this is one of the most important stats for a QB. You can win a lot of games with that ratio.

 

2) Seattle might have the best defense in the NFL. They carried that team while Wilson learned on the job. With their injuries, the Bills have struggled on D. Manuel has been asked to do much more.

 

3) 2 weeks of missing your 1st training camp is huge. Wilson had a whole training camp.

 

4) Let's all take a deep breath and relax.

 

Number 2 is the reason why we need to continue drafting defensive help! As I stated in a different topic, we should draft an OLB and a CB with our first two picks. Mack(Buffalo) and Roberson(Florida) are the guys I would like to see here.

[Bangarang]

 

 

Small piece? I was simply saying that if Wilson won 4 of his first 6 games including a great win against NE, very few pwoplw would have been calling for a new QB 2 weeks later.

 

So...I'm disagreeing with your entire premise (not a small peice of it), if that's allowed.

 

I think you underestimate people here. Pretty stats are what matters to them.

 

They would rather look good and lose.

[BADOLBILZ]

Small piece? I was simply saying that if Wilson won 4 of his first 6 games including a great win against NE, very few pwoplw would have been calling for a new QB 2 weeks later.

 

So...I'm disagreeing with your entire premise (not a small peice of it), if that's allowed.

 

 

Anyone who was here during the Jauron era knows that CBiscuit vehemently defended a stat about early coaching record that he felt proved that Dick Jauron was the equivalent of Bill Belichick.

 

For 4 years......at which point Jauron had accumulated 8 losing seasons in 9 attempts.

 

The circumstances, past coaching success of the two coaches etc.. were impertinent in his opinion.

 

I am not giving up on EJ but the bottom line is that these two QB's arrived in the NFL at different levels of preparedness and for good or bad stats do not tell that story. Wilson was a polished, fundamentally sound passer........EJ was not and still is not. The Bills need to work on that.

[mdk]

Russell Wilson and EJ Manuel both are young QB's. RW and EJ are both poised, articulate, and likeable human beings. RW and EJ both have strong arms. Other than these shared traits, there's a few things to separate them: height, throwing accuracy, a talent for reading defences, a 6th sense for feeling pressure, and an uncanny drive to be a champion. These are things that keep EJ from credibly being in the same conversation as Russell Wilson.

 

Am not saying Ej can't get better or even become a good NFL QB, but there's sufficient evidence there's a wide gap between the two. Then again there's a fairly wide gap between RW and most of the QB's in the NFL. He's special.

[justnzane]

Russell Wilson and EJ Manuel both are young QB's. RW and EJ are both poised, articulate, and likeable human beings. RW and EJ both have strong arms. Other than these shared traits, there's a few things to separate them: height, throwing accuracy, a talent for reading defences, a 6th sense for feeling pressure, and an uncanny drive to be a champion. These are things that keep EJ from credibly being in the same conversation as Russell Wilson.

 

Am not saying Ej can't get better or even become a good NFL QB, but there's sufficient evidence there's a wide gap between the two. Then again there's a fairly wide gap between RW and most of the QB's in the NFL. He's special.

I don't know why you could be down on him as EJ has played pretty damn well the last two weeks. You can't blame him for the Atlanta loss. Anytime you put up 31 points, you deserve the W.

[BillsFanM.D.]

I don't know why you could be down on him as EJ has played pretty damn well the last two weeks. You can't blame him for the Atlanta loss. Anytime you put up 31 points, you deserve the W.

 

And anytime you put your team in position to win the game (on back to back offensive possessions late in the game) you deserve the W. The Atlanta game would have been another comeback win for EJ. We'd be singing his praises about how he 'gets better' late in the game etc. Not his fault the receivers decided to cough it up twice.

[NoSaint]

 

Schaub, minus some really poorly timed and unfortunate for him returned tds -- is over 62% completions, averaging about 250 yards a game (despite more than one being a partial game) and is 9 tds to 10 picks. 2 of those early pick 6s don't get returned for tds and we are likely saying he's just having a down year instead of running him out of the league. Granted he made the poor throws, took the bad risks- but I don't think he's been quite as awful as some portray.

Edited December 7, 2013 by NoSaint

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Excerpted from another thread and posted here:

 

Here's a list of the most recent first round QBs and where they were drafted:

 

Matthew Stafford 1st overall 2009

Mark Sanchez 5th overall 2009

Josh Freeman 17th overall 2009

Sam Bradford 1st overall 2010

Tim Tebow 25th overall 2010

Cam Newton 1st overall 2011

Jake Locker 8th overall 2011

Blaine Gabbert 10th overall 2011

Christian Ponder 12th overall 2011

Andrew Luck 1st overall 2012

RG3 2nd overall 2012

Ryan Tannehill 8th overall 2012

Brandon Weeden 22nd overall 2012

 

Only two of those players have established themselves as bona fide quality NFL starters, Stafford and Newton. Both of those guys were taken first overall.

 

Of the other players drafted in the Top 5, it's looking very likely that Luck and RG3 will have great careers and it's looking more and more certain that Sanchez and Bradford are gonna be busts.

 

Then you have players taken outside the top 5 where EJ was selected:

 

Josh Freeman, Tim Tebow, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Ryan Tannehill, and Brandon Weeden.

 

I would take EJ over any of those guys. Only Tannehill and Locker have an argument and Locker is in his 3rd NFL season.

 

Then you consider how well EJ has played especially considering he missed half the preseason and 5 weeks of the regular season.

 

Then you consider that the Bills traded down and still got Manuel.

 

Then you realize that people posting on this board and expressing disappointment in EJ's rookie season really have no idea what they're talking about because they have no idea what a rookie QB in the NFL is realistically expected to do.

 

The fact that Russell Wilson is playing like a high first round draft pick doesn't denigrate the fact that EJ has had a very good rookie season.

Edited December 7, 2013 by San Jose Bills Fan

[YoloinOhio]

Excerpted from another thread and posted here:

 

Here's a list of the most recent first round QBs and where they were drafted:

 

Matthew Stafford 1st overall 2009

Mark Sanchez 5th overall 2009

Josh Freeman 17th overall 2009

Sam Bradford 1st overall 2010

Tim Tebow 25th overall 2010

Cam Newton 1st overall 2011

Jake Locker 8th overall 2011

Blaine Gabbert 10th overall 2011

Christian Ponder 12th overall 2011

Andrew Luck 1st overall 2012

RG3 2nd overall 2012

Ryan Tannehill 8th overall 2012

Brandon Weeden 22nd overall 2012

 

Only two of those players have established themselves as bona fide quality NFL starters, Stafford and Newton. Both of those guys were taken first overall.

 

Of the other players drafted in the Top 5, it's looking very likely that Luck and RG3 will have great careers and it's looking more and more certain that Sanchez and Bradford are gonna be busts.

 

Then you have players taken outside the top 5 where EJ was selected:

 

Josh Freeman, Tim Tebow, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Ryan Tannehill, and Brandon Weeden.

 

I would take EJ over any of those guys. Only Tannehill and Locker have an argument and Locker is in his 3rd NFL season.

 

Then you consider how well EJ has played especially considering he missed half the preseason and 5 weeks of the regular season.

 

Then you consider that the Bills traded down and still got Manuel.

 

Then you realize that people posting on this board and expressing disappointment in EJ's rookie season really have no idea what they're talking about because they have no idea what a rookie QB in the NFL is realistically expected to do.

 

The fact that Russell Wilson is playing like a high first round draft pick doesn't denigrate the fact that EJ has had a very good rookie season.

Great post. I think that, unfortunately, it is like talking to a wall (see what I did there) as some "fans" want EJ to fail just so they can be right.

[San-O]

Honestly, I would be much more interested in the last three (3): A number of QBs have come and gone in Buffalo the last decade or so, and having a three game

beginning means very little, IMO. Show me who they progress or stand up after NFL D coordinators have some game film on them and know

what to take away.

 

With E.J., don't worry about the deep ball too much.

[NoSaint]

Excerpted from another thread and posted here:

 

Here's a list of the most recent first round QBs and where they were drafted:

 

Matthew Stafford 1st overall 2009

Mark Sanchez 5th overall 2009

Josh Freeman 17th overall 2009

Sam Bradford 1st overall 2010

Tim Tebow 25th overall 2010

Cam Newton 1st overall 2011

Jake Locker 8th overall 2011

Blaine Gabbert 10th overall 2011

Christian Ponder 12th overall 2011

Andrew Luck 1st overall 2012

RG3 2nd overall 2012

Ryan Tannehill 8th overall 2012

Brandon Weeden 22nd overall 2012

 

Only two of those players have established themselves as bona fide quality NFL starters, Stafford and Newton. Both of those guys were taken first overall.

 

Of the other players drafted in the Top 5, it's looking very likely that Luck and RG3 will have great careers and it's looking more and more certain that Sanchez and Bradford are gonna be busts.

 

Then you have players taken outside the top 5 where EJ was selected:

 

Josh Freeman, Tim Tebow, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Ryan Tannehill, and Brandon Weeden.

 

I would take EJ over any of those guys. Only Tannehill and Locker have an argument and Locker is in his 3rd NFL season.

 

Then you consider how well EJ has played especially considering he missed half the preseason and 5 weeks of the regular season.

 

Then you consider that the Bills traded down and still got Manuel.

 

Then you realize that people posting on this board and expressing disappointment in EJ's rookie season really have no idea what they're talking about because they have no idea what a rookie QB in the NFL is realistically expected to do.

 

The fact that Russell Wilson is playing like a high first round draft pick doesn't denigrate the fact that EJ has had a very good rookie season.

 

Well said. Perspective is big on stuff like this and if you are just watching the bills, and sportscenter - it's tough to manage expectations fairly. Every highlight you see is someone making their best, or worst play. Makes it hard to weigh or compare guys.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Well said. Perspective is big on stuff like this and if you are just watching the bills, and sportscenter - it's tough to manage expectations fairly. Every highlight you see is someone making their best, or worst play. Makes it hard to weigh or compare guys.

 

When you see football discussions that are so shallow and lacking in perspective and then you hear those same people discuss things as complex as politics or economics, it just makes you shudder and despair for the future of mankind.

 

:lol:

[BADOLBILZ]

I don't know why you could be down on him as EJ has played pretty damn well the last two weeks. You can't blame him for the Atlanta loss. Anytime you put up 31 points, you deserve the W.

 

He had a good game against the Jets........but come to find out that all QB's have been having good games against the Jets. By comparison, EJ's day was modest.

 

The Atlanta game he played poorly for 59 minutes. He threw a short pass off the mark by 10 feet that should have been a game-changing walk-in pic 6 and threw another pass off the mark to TJ Graham by about 10 feet that thumped off the cb after Graham alertly got over to defend it. The one long pass he completed to a wide-open Robert Woods was very poorly targeted and Woods ended up getting a helmet to the chin for catching it. Manuel was bad throwing the football until the very end when he strung together 3 completions in the clutch.

[thebandit27]

 

 

He had a good game against the Jets........but come to find out that all QB's have been having good games against the Jets. By comparison, EJ's day was modest.

 

The Atlanta game he played poorly for 59 minutes. He threw a short pass off the mark by 10 feet that should have been a game-changing walk-in pic 6 and threw another pass off the mark to TJ Graham by about 10 feet that thumped off the cb after Graham alertly got over to defend it. The one long pass he completed to a wide-open Robert Woods was very poorly targeted and Woods ended up getting a helmet to the chin for catching it. Manuel was bad throwing the football until the very end when he strung together 3 completions in the clutch.

 

He didn't have a great game, but you're of the mark on the Woods throw. That was a timing throw underneath the safety and was placed correctly.

 

He does need to play better than that though.

[C.Biscuit97]

Anyone who was here during the Jauron era knows that CBiscuit vehemently defended a stat about early coaching record that he felt proved that Dick Jauron was the equivalent of Bill Belichick.

 

For 4 years......at which point Jauron had accumulated 8 losing seasons in 9 attempts.

 

The circumstances, past coaching success of the two coaches etc.. were impertinent in his opinion.

 

I am not giving up on EJ but the bottom line is that these two QB's arrived in the NFL at different levels of preparedness and for good or bad stats do not tell that story. Wilson was a polished, fundamentally sound passer........EJ was not and still is not. The Bills need to work on that.

 

Ah yes. Badol trots this out every month, trying to get personal, and not attempting to stay on topic. No matters how times you wrongly state it, I'm still 100% right. PRE-BRADY, Belichick has a worse coaching record than Dick Jauron. Shockingly, when he got a top 3 QB of all time, he became a great coach.

 

Small piece? I was simply saying that if Wilson won 4 of his first 6 games including a great win against NE, very few pwoplw would have been calling for a new QB 2 weeks later.

 

So...I'm disagreeing with your entire premise (not a small peice of it), if that's allowed.

 

I get it. You need to be the contrarian. That's your character on this board. We're all impressed. A lot of people could argue that Manuel's 296 yard game and comeback win against the #2 overall defense in the NFL in Carolina is more impressive than Wilson's rookie year victory against NE and their 25th ranked defense.

But hey, any time you got a chance to knock a Bills player, you gotta take it.

 

He had a good game against the Jets........but come to find out that all QB's have been having good games against the Jets. By comparison, EJ's day was modest.

 

The Atlanta game he played poorly for 59 minutes. He threw a short pass off the mark by 10 feet that should have been a game-changing walk-in pic 6 and threw another pass off the mark to TJ Graham by about 10 feet that thumped off the cb after Graham alertly got over to defend it. The one long pass he completed to a wide-open Robert Woods was very poorly targeted and Woods ended up getting a helmet to the chin for catching it. Manuel was bad throwing the football until the very end when he strung together 3 completions in the clutch.

 

Drew Brees threw for 382, but 2 tds and 2 ints. In 2 starts against the Jets, Brady threw 1 td, 1 int, had a high passing yardage total of 228, and completed under 50% of his passes in each game. I guess that's not all Qbs.

[Dibs]

He had a good game against the Jets........but come to find out that all QB's have been having good games against the Jets. By comparison, EJ's day was modest.

.....

 

You must have missed my reply to you the last time you made this claim.

 

Here it is again with Tannehill added.

 

All QB performances against Jets this season:

 

Brady(2nd game) 22-46-228-0-1 (4 sack for 23 yds) QBR 53.5

Freeman 15-31-210-1-1 (3 sacks for 25 yds) QBR 67.9

Brady(1st game) 19-39-185-1-0 (1 sack for 7 yds) QBR 71.0

Manuel(1st game) 19-42-243-1-0 (8 sacks for 85 yds) QBR 71.8

Brees 30-51-382-2-2 (2 sacks for 16 yds) QBR 79.0

Tannehill 28-43-331-2-1 (1 sack for 3 yds) QBR 94.2

Flacco 17-26-273-1-1 (4 sacks for 28 yds) QBR 97.1

Ryan 36-45-319-2-0 (2 sacks for 12 yds) QBR 113.1

Roethlisberger 23-30-264-1-0 (4 sacks for 24 yds) QBR 113.8

Manuel(2nd game) 20-28-245-2-0 (1 sack for 0 yds) QBR 121.9

Locker/Fitz 21-32-257-4-0 (2 sacks for 13 yds) QBR 131.9

Dalton 19-30-325-5-1 (1 sack for 2 yds) QBR 141.7

 

This doesn't prove he will be good.....and none of his stats prove that he will be good, bad, horrible or great.......but it does prove that he had more than a modest performance against the Jets when compared to other QB performances against them.

 

Please, give a player his dues when he earns them.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Dibs

[San Jose Bills Fan]

You must have missed my reply to you the last time you made this claim.

 

Here it is again with Tannehill added.

 

All QB performances against Jets this season:

 

Brady(2nd game) 22-46-228-0-1 (4 sack for 23 yds) QBR 53.5

Freeman 15-31-210-1-1 (3 sacks for 25 yds) QBR 67.9

Brady(1st game) 19-39-185-1-0 (1 sack for 7 yds) QBR 71.0

Manuel(1st game) 19-42-243-1-0 (8 sacks for 85 yds) QBR 71.8

Brees 30-51-382-2-2 (2 sacks for 16 yds) QBR 79.0

Tannehill 28-43-331-2-1 (1 sack for 3 yds) QBR 94.2

Flacco 17-26-273-1-1 (4 sacks for 28 yds) QBR 97.1

Ryan 36-45-319-2-0 (2 sacks for 12 yds) QBR 113.1

Roethlisberger 23-30-264-1-0 (4 sacks for 24 yds) QBR 113.8

Manuel(2nd game) 20-28-245-2-0 (1 sack for 0 yds) QBR 121.9

Locker/Fitz 21-32-257-4-0 (2 sacks for 13 yds) QBR 131.9

Dalton 19-30-325-5-1 (1 sack for 2 yds) QBR 141.7

 

This doesn't prove he will be good.....and none of his stats prove that he will be good, bad, horrible or great.......but it does prove that he had more than a modest performance against the Jets when compared to other QB performances against them.

 

Please, give a player his dues when he earns them.

 

I'm sure he saw it last time too.

[mdk]

i am still not sold on Wilson

 

Am a former Buffalonian who lives in the Pacific Northwest. I watch Russell Wilson weekly and read about him daily. My observations: he lives the game, is extraordinarily prepared, sneaky fast, has a rifle of an arm, computer-like accuracy, senses pressure like a barometer, and escapes tackles like Houdini. "Not sold on (Russell) Wilson"? Hmm, you, sir, are a very tough sell indeed!

[Mr. WEO]

 

 

 

 

I get it. You need to be the contrarian. That's your character on this board. We're all impressed. A lot of people could argue that Manuel's 296 yard game and comeback win against the #2 overall defense in the NFL in Carolina is more impressive than Wilson's rookie year victory against NE and their 25th ranked defense.

But hey, any time you got a chance to knock a Bills player, you gotta take it.

 

 

 

Look, I don't know how else to explain it to you. You said fans here would have been calling for Wilson's replacement, even after leading to the Bills to a win over NE as a rookie. I'm saying this is ridiculous.

 

I have nothing against EJ at all. I think he's a good kid who could be a very good NFL QB. Your contention about WIlson was poorly thought out and I'm calling you on it. Stop making this about something else. You stepped in it, now own up to your post.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Am a former Buffalonian who lives in the Pacific Northwest. I watch Russell Wilson weekly and read about him daily. My observations: he lives the game, is extraordinarily prepared, sneaky fast, has a rifle of an arm, computer-like accuracy, senses pressure like a barometer, and escapes tackles like Houdini. "Not sold on (Russell) Wilson"? Hmm, you, sir, are a very tough sell indeed!

 

And I'll say again, seems humble and hardworking in a way that some of the young guys struggling don't seem to portray. He seems to get that the only thing he's accomplished is the right to keep trying to get better in his next film study, practice, or game.... There's no selling his brand, no fighting with the "haters" or any other sense of "I've arrived"

Edited December 8, 2013 by NoSaint

[thebandit27]

 

 

And I'll say again, seems humble and hardworking in a way that some of the young guys struggling don't seem to portray. He seems to get that the only thing he's accomplished is the right to keep trying to get better in his next film study, practice, or game.... There's no selling his brand, no fighting with the "haters" or any other sense of "I've arrived"

 

That kind of attitude may be why some GMs prefer to draft kids with a spiritual background; it tends to foster that humility of which you speak.

 

Aaron Rodgers is another good example.

 

On the Bills, those also seem to be some of the quietest yet hardest working guys: Kyle Williams, CJ, EJ, Chandler.

 

It certainly doesn't mean they'll be the best players; just that if that attitude is something of vital importance to the team, you may see more kids with that background get drafted.

Edited December 8, 2013 by thebandit27

[Thirty Year Fan]

Let me start off by saying this doesn't mean Manuel will ever be as good as Wilson, but let's settle down a bit.

 

Wilson: http://sports.yahoo..../?season=2012_2

43 of 75 (57.3%), 434 yards (144.7 yards/ game), 5.79 ypa, 4 tds to 1 INT, 1 fumble lost, Seattle averages 19 points/ game.

 

Also in his 4th start, Wilson threw 0 tds and 3 ints.

 

Manuel: http://sports.yahoo..../players/26639/

64 of 108 (59.3%), 689 yards (229.7 yards/ game), 6.4 ypa, 4 tds to

1 ints, 1 fumble lost. 21.7 points

 

 

1) Both had 4td to 1 int ratio. IMO, this is one of the most important stats for a QB. You can win a lot of games with that ratio.

 

2) Seattle might have the best defense in the NFL. They carried that team while Wilson learned on the job. With their injuries, the Bills have struggled on D. Manuel has been asked to do much more.

 

3) 2 weeks of missing your 1st training camp is huge. Wilson had a whole training camp.

 

4) Let's all take a deep breath and relax.

Can't ,when we could have had him the third round , we moved up to take T J graham ouch!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Can't ,when we could have had him the third round , we moved up to take T J graham ouch!

 

And the irony (and pain) is greater when you consider that Russell Wilson threw to TJ Graham at NC State and it's possible that the Bills overvalued TJ because Russell Wilson made him look better than he was.

[Thirty Year Fan]

Am a former Buffalonian who lives in the Pacific Northwest. I watch Russell Wilson weekly and read about him daily. My observations: he lives the game, is extraordinarily prepared, sneaky fast, has a rifle of an arm, computer-like accuracy, senses pressure like a barometer, and escapes tackles like Houdini. "Not sold on (Russell) Wilson"? Hmm, you, sir, are a very tough sell indeed!

Great Post!

[MDH]

He had a good game against the Jets........but come to find out that all QB's have been having good games against the Jets. By comparison, EJ's day was modest.

 

The Atlanta game he played poorly for 59 minutes. He threw a short pass off the mark by 10 feet that should have been a game-changing walk-in pic 6 and threw another pass off the mark to TJ Graham by about 10 feet that thumped off the cb after Graham alertly got over to defend it. The one long pass he completed to a wide-open Robert Woods was very poorly targeted and Woods ended up getting a helmet to the chin for catching it. Manuel was bad throwing the football until the very end when he strung together 3 completions in the clutch.

 

It's easy to only point to his bad throws and say he played poorly. He didn't play poorly overall, he was up and down. He had good moments and he had his clunkers. I'm not sure what QBs everybody on this board is watching. You can't watch ANY QB in the league critically without being able to point out a handful (or more) of throws which are just bad. I've watched Brady lots the past few years and every single game he has multiple throws where I'm saying, "what was that?" It happens tot he best of them.

Edited December 8, 2013 by MDH

[BADOLBILZ]

He didn't have a great game, but you're of the mark on the Woods throw. That was a timing throw underneath the safety and was placed correctly.

 

He does need to play better than that though.

 

He threw Woods into the safety. The ball was supposed to arrive where Woods was running near the sideline and instead Woods had to come back toward the middle of the field causing a high impact collision. Ball was late too.

[BADOLBILZ]

It's easy to only point to his bad throws and say he played poorly. He didn't play poorly overall, he was up and down. He had good moments and he had his clunkers. I'm not sure what QBs everybody on this board is watching. You can't watch ANY QB in the league critically without being able to point out a handful (or more) of throws which are just bad. I've watched Brady lots the past few years and every single game he has multiple throws where I'm saying, "what was that?" It happens tot he best of them.

 

I'd say his unintentionally inaccurate throws are excessive. To his credit he is not letting one bad throw carry over to the next play, which is important. Most young players allow bad plays to snowball into more bad plays. Hackett deserves some credit for that too, he has coddled him.

 

The concern is whether the accuracy issue is correctable. It has to be a concern that he played as much as he did in college and is still so raw fundamentally.

 

Your example of Brady is not one I would use. He has had so many days where you were lucky to see one bad throw as an opponent that it's not funny. Every QB misses throws but it's not uncommon for Manuel to have 50% bad throws in a game. A bad throw can be woefully off the mark or it can be well behind a receiver but catchable, etc. That isn't going to get it done at the NFL level. A good mental makeup does not guarantee accuracy will improve, we saw that with Fitz. EJ has all the tools to be good but he hasn't been so until he is the jury is out.

Edited December 8, 2013 by BADOLBEELZ

[BADOLBILZ]

Ah yes. Badol trots this out every month, trying to get personal, and not attempting to stay on topic. No matters how times you wrongly state it, I'm still 100% right. PRE-BRADY, Belichick has a worse coaching record than Dick Jauron. Shockingly, when he got a top 3 QB of all time, he became a great coach.

 

I think the point is that you don't really have an objective mind regarding the Bills.

 

You fish for a statistic to support your stance and then refuse to admit you are wrong even as the data stacks up against you.

 

Case in point, your opinion that Dick Jauron is a great head coach.

 

I think you may be the one in a million Bills fans who believes that Dick Jauron was a great coach who just didn't have a good QB.

Edited December 8, 2013 by BADOLBEELZ