IDBillzFan Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) But when you've got a state like California, where their four billion dollar program executes eight people, a ****head like Charles Ng rings up eight figures in court costs with constant appeals, and a criminal like Richard Ramirez - an !@#$ as deserving of execution as anyone - dies of liver failure waiting on death row...that's not "The death penalty is too expensive" as much as "Your penal system is FUBAR'd." In fairness, California had a special election about this and a majority of residents voted overwhelming to reduce the number of appeals and expedite the death penalty itself. But, you know California. The state didn't like the result, so it appealed to a court that agreed with it. (EDIT: No, this didn't actually happen and Tom knows this.) Edited June 28, 2013 by LABillzFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 In fairness, California had a special election about this and a majority of residents voted overwhelming to reduce the number of appeals and expedite the death penalty itself. But, you know California. The state didn't like the result, so it appealed to a court that agreed with it. (EDIT: No, this didn't actually happen and Tom knows this.) No, but they did place a moratorium on executions because the lethal injection chamber was cramped, dark, and used to be the gas chamber...all of which was deemed to cause unnecessary pain and suffering and thus be a civil rights violation of the about-to-be-executed. (No, I'm not making that up. It's been maybe five years, and the courts are still saying "Nope, not pleasant enough. Make it more sunny.") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsInMaine Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I hate to say it but the Patriots are handling this Hernandez case perfectly. http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9433751/new-england-patriots-offering-aaron-hernandez-jersey-exchange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 all the monitoring out there now.... nah Yea, ankle monitors can't be tampered with.... http://northcountrynow.com/news/penalty-tampering-electronic-monitoring-device-increased-under-sen-ritchie-bill-088617 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Yea, ankle monitors can't be tampered with.... http://northcountryn...hie-bill-088617 But this horrific case shows that they are far from fool-proof. My bill seeks to create a strong deterrent for continued criminal activity, a valuable tool for law enforcement, and an additional level of protection to keep the community safe,” Ritchie said. Law enforcers said that Renz removed his ankle monitoring device before attacking and killing Lori Bresnahan, an ex-Oswego school librarian, and raping a 10-year-old girl in a central New York parking lot in March. The bill, S.5422-A, would make it a felony for an offender to tamper with a monitoring device, adding up to four years of prison time if a crime is committed following the tampering or up to one year if no crime is committed. So wait...a guy removes his ankle bracelet, commits six separate class A felonies, each of which alone carries a life sentence (and one life without parole)...and this yahoo thinks four years for removing the ankle bracelet will be a deterrent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 @WFAN660 Patriots offering new jerseys to all fans who want to get rid of ones they bought with Aaron Hernandez's name on it | http://cbsloc.al/13eDBTm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Why post an opinion, if you don't want people to react to it (especially one that implies some kind of special understanding of the situation)? Your post implies that you figured out that someone ratted him out, and I have no idea what there is about his becoming a suspect that indicated someone snitching on him. It appears more likely that the evidence pointed right at him, and that is one of the key points that makes the story interesting, the ineptness of the crime. I stated it was my impression, not my special understanding. And if you want to ask why, go for it, but acting afool like I did something absurd by saying that it felt to me like someone talked is simply being a jackass. When he was arrested, there was no weapon and questionable motive; purely circumstantial evidence. To me, that's shaky ground for murder 1. That made me believe that someone helped the police establish motive, a key component in determining if the crime was premeditated. If the timeline is accurate that the victim told others about Hernandez's involvement in previous crimes, that would establish motive. That info had to come from somewhere... Feel better now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 @WFAN660 Patriots offering new jerseys to all fans who want to get rid of ones they bought with Aaron Hernandez's name on it | http://cbsloc.al/13eDBTm I hate the Patriots and disapprove of their very existence, but I think they have handled this situation well. They could have waited for him not to report and saved cap space/money (and likely a legal fight with him), but they released him. They could have ignored the jerseys, but they are going to get them off the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I stated it was my impression, not my special understanding. And if you want to ask why, go for it, but acting afool like I did something absurd by saying that it felt to me like someone talked is simply being a jackass. When he was arrested, there was no weapon and questionable motive; purely circumstantial evidence. To me, that's shaky ground for murder 1. That made me believe that someone helped the police establish motive, a key component in determining if the crime was premeditated. If the timeline is accurate that the victim told others about Hernandez's involvement in previous crimes, that would establish motive. That info had to come from somewhere... Feel better now? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodbuster Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I hate the Patriots and disapprove of their very existence, but I think they have handled this situation well. They could have waited for him not to report and saved cap space/money (and likely a legal fight with him), but they released him. They could have ignored the jerseys, but they are going to get them off the street. Kraft and the hoodie may be tools, but they put up with this kind of stuff. Man, it's been a horrible couple of weeks for Boston area sports fans. Firs the Hernandez story, then the Bruins implode in the final seconds of game 6, then their Celtics get parted out. You're up, Sox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Man, it's been a horrible couple of weeks for Boston area sports fans. Firs the Hernandez story, then the Bruins implode in the final seconds of game 6, then their Celtics get parted out. You're up, Sox. I didn't think about it that way. That's awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodbuster Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I didn't think about it that way. That's awesome. it's great, isn't it? I'm gonna run out of popcorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I didn't think about it that way. That's awesome. Wherever he is, Johnny Coli is smiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Kraft and the hoodie may be tools, but they put up with this kind of stuff. Man, it's been a horrible couple of weeks for Boston area sports fans. Firs the Hernandez story, then the Bruins implode in the final seconds of game 6, then their Celtics get parted out. You're up, Sox. Ray Allen winning with the heat.... And all that ignoring the much more serious marathon incident Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph W. Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Hey guys if you have a Hernandez jersey you can trade it in for a different one lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Wheels Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 Boston Globe sources: Boston Police investigating 2012 double murder have seized in Bristol, CT a silver SUV linked to the crime. https://twitter.com/WesleyLowery Speculation that Lloyd knew about Hernandez's involvement with that drive-by; killed because he knew too much and AH thought he was talking about it to the wrong people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Just read on Facebook that Mante Te'o claims Hernandez killed his girlfriend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Dude screwthe Pats. The jersey exchange is to keep egg off their face exposing Hernandez name again associated with the Pats. Its trying to save face. I want a Hernandez jersey. I will wear it to the opener . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Dude screwthe Pats. The jersey exchange is to keep egg off their face exposing Hernandez name again associated with the Pats. Its trying to save face. I want a Hernandez jersey. I will wear it to the opener . I think it's a pretty solid move on the part of the Pats. Considering how expensive jerseys are I would be pissed if I got an AH jersey recently and then this happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I think it's a pretty solid move on the part of the Pats. Considering how expensive jerseys are I would be pissed if I got an AH jersey recently and then this happens. Epitome of win win. They don't want anyone seen in his jersey, many dont want to own his jersey. Both get what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Epitome of win win. They don't want anyone seen in his jersey, many dont want to own his jersey. Both get what they want. There's some on EBay now... http://www.ebay.com/bhp/aaron-hernandez-jersey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills44 Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Dude screwthe Pats. The jersey exchange is to keep egg off their face exposing Hernandez name again associated with the Pats. Its trying to save face. I want a Hernandez jersey. I will wear it to the opener . Yep. Damage control, and it's pretty transparent, IMO. Scumbag franchise.... They knew that Hernandez was a POS when they drafted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Yep. Damage control, and it's pretty transparent, IMO. Scumbag franchise.... They knew that Hernandez was a POS when they drafted him. The irony being a month ago he was a prime example of everything wrong with our drafting if you asked around this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills44 Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Still a nagging suspicion of mine that they meant to beat the hell out of him. Perhaps parading him around before so people would know who did it and be scared of them.... And then whether accidental or in a rage, gun goes off and they all make messes in their pants and start panicking about covering it up. Wasn't Lloyd shot 5 times? The irony being a month ago he was a prime example of everything wrong with our drafting if you asked around this board. IMO, there's a big difference between drafting guys with a little big of swagger and those who have gang tats and fail drug tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Yep. Damage control, and it's pretty transparent, IMO. Scumbag franchise.... They knew that Hernandez was a POS when they drafted him. Of course Belicheat knew what he was...where is the criticism of the head coach? Winning at all cost is the Belicheat way. Who cares if I tape the opponents practice so that I know their plays. Who cares if the integrity of the entire league suffers so that I can win. He should have been thrown out of the league, but instead people try to make him out to be the greatest head coach ever, He's an embarrassment. A pompous arrogant cheater with low charachter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills44 Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 His brother seems like a tool, as well: http://nesn.com/2010/11/brother-of-patriots-tight-end-aaron-hernandez-caught-stealing-plays-for-southington-high-school-foot/ Wonder who taught him how to cheat... Of course Belicheat knew what he was...where is the criticism of the head coach? Winning at all cost is the Belicheat way. Who cares if I tape the opponents practice so that I know their plays. Who cares if the integrity of the entire league suffers so that I can win. He should have been thrown out of the league, but instead people try to make him out to be the greatest head coach ever, He's an embarrassment. A pompous arrogant cheater with low charachter. Completely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 The irony being a month ago he was a prime example of everything wrong with our drafting if you asked around this board. I thought that was Gronk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Just read on Facebook that Mante Te'o claims Hernandez killed his girlfriend. Too soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I'm not sure if the authorities can prove that he pulled the trigger in either of these three homicides. It appears from what's been offered to the media that at a minimum he's an accomplice to murder in at least one instance. Beyond that, I'm not building sand castles in the air, though I do wish nothing but the absolute worst for that franchise and its fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I thought that was Gronk? It was both, but yes, it was more Gronk. However the reasons he fell in the draft (back, durability) are also starting to manifest themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I would argue Gonk and Hernandez have both already justified their draft picks. Obviously you don't want to sell a maniac who murders people in the regular course of his business...but from a football perspective the Gronk/Hernandez draft was a success already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I thought that was Gronk? hyperbole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Blizzard Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 IMO, there's a big difference between drafting guys with a little big of swagger and those who have gang tats and fail drug tests. True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I would argue Gonk and Hernandez have both already justified their draft picks. Obviously you don't want to sell a maniac who murders people in the regular course of his business...but from a football perspective the Gronk/Hernandez draft was a success already. I agree. Player careers are short in the NFL and it's not like they were top 10-15 picks in a draft. When you can get that kind of production out of second and fourth round picks and go to a SB and multiple championship games then you have done very well. BTW, I don't think Hernandez slipped in the draft. Teams view TE's a little differently now but a few years ago a short TE was just a tweener. Teams wanted TE's 6'5" and up and Hernandez was more of an h-back, a position which was out of style in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph W. Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) I would argue Gonk and Hernandez have both already justified their draft picks. Obviously you don't want to sell a maniac who murders people in the regular course of his business...but from a football perspective the Gronk/Hernandez draft was a success already. That didn't help them win any Super Bowls and now one is gone forever and the other is injury prone. Success my ass. They may look like a success to a fan of a losing team but the Pats were winning 12+ games a year without them. With them they won 12+ games and no Super Bowls. Edited June 29, 2013 by Ralph W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) I'm not sure if the authorities can prove that he pulled the trigger in either of these three homicides. It appears from what's been offered to the media that at a minimum he's an accomplice to murder in at least one instance. Beyond that, I'm not building sand castles in the air, though I do wish nothing but the absolute worst for that franchise and its fans. You don't have to pull the trigger to be charged with capital murder. If you are involved with the situation in a substantial way such as being in the car as a driver knowing that a shooting is going to occur you are just as culpable as the person who is the shooter. In the assassination killing it doesn't matter if he mercilessly shot the victim or somelse did. He is the one who orchestrated the crime and he was aware that a killing was going to happen. So he is just as guilty if not moreso because he orchestrated it. In the prior incident of a dirve by shooting and killing the same logic of the law applies. If he drove back to the confrontation with guns in the car looking for the victims with the end result being that his associate in the car does the shooting and killing everyone in the car can be charged with the killing. The reasoning behind the law is that you created the dangerous situation and thus you are just as responsible in the killing as the actual shooter. Another example is if you rob a store with a group of other robbers and one of your associates panics in the robbery and shoots the clerk you are just as culapable in the eyes of the law, even if you yourself didn't bring a gun to the event because you are responsible for the event that resulted in a killing. Edited June 29, 2013 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I thought that was Gronk? Gronk was certainly number one on the list, but Easley over Hernandez was often mentioned. Especially when we picked up a few guys with character questions this April. The "finally we get some bad boys, I'm tired of drafting high character guys and ending up with the pats getting Hernandez in the 4th" crowd was out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Wasn't Lloyd shot 5 times Yea, as we get more I may lean away from that guess of a possibility. Just really struck me that they seemed to do so little in advance and then scramble after like there was some sort of "oh ****" moment. 5 shots could be as simple as Odin mouthing off and one losing their minds, but we will see. JohnC, if Hernandez somehow argued that they were upset and mightve planned to rough him up but didnt intend to kill him and he didnt pull the trigger, one of the others went rogue how much would that help him? Would a shooting during a planned crime gone wrong still nail him to M1 under local laws? It seems like he's going to have a very tough time wiggling out of this one and I'm drawing blanks on defenses based on what we know. Short of "just pretend you didnt hear any of those facts" I'm not sure what angles his team will have to even reduce his situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) Gronk was certainly number one on the list, but Easley over Hernandez was often mentioned. Especially when we picked up a few guys with character questions this April. The "finally we get some bad boys, I'm tired of drafting high character guys and ending up with the pats getting Hernandez in the 4th" crowd was out. Da'Rick Rogers is a very interesting example of the organization altering their approach on the type of people they would draft. He was a first to second round graded player who left Tennessee for behavior reasons. No team would even take a risk on him in the draft. We got him as an undrafted free agent. Even if he had problems with failed drug tests, which he did, there was something about the impression he made with teams that they wouldn't even be tempted to take him with a lower round pick. I have no problem with giving some troubled people an opportunity with an understanding that they are on a short leash. But if you overdo it like the Al Davis Raiders did then you are asking for trouble. Yea, as we get more I may lean away from that guess of a possibility. Just really struck me that they seemed to do so little in advance and then scramble after like there was some sort of "oh ****" moment. 5 shots could be as simple as Odin mouthing off and one losing their minds, but we will see. JohnC, if Hernandez somehow argued that they were upset and mightve planned to rough him up but didnt intend to kill him and he didnt pull the trigger, one of the others went rogue how much would that help him? Would a shooting during a planned crime gone wrong still nail him to M1 under local laws? It seems like he's going to have a very tough time wiggling out of this one and I'm drawing blanks on defenses based on what we know. Short of "just pretend you didnt hear any of those facts" I'm not sure what angles his team will have to even reduce his situation. No, he has no legal basis for a mitigating factor. Even if the scenario played out as you described he was aware that one of the parties had a gun. This was a case where they picked up the victim in his rented car late at night and took him for a ride to a secluded location. AH was the orchestrator of the event. He brought people from out of town to fortify his position. There is nothing (that I see) that he can lay claim to to help his very hopeless cause. Edited June 29, 2013 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Da'Rick Rogers is a very interesting example of the organization altering their approach on the type of people they would draft. He was a first to second round graded player who left Tennessee for behavior reasons. No team would even take a risk on him in the draft. We got him as an undrafted free agent. Even if he had problems with failed drug tests, which he did, there was something about the impression he made with teams that they wouldn't even be tempted to take him with a lower round pick. I have no problem with giving some troubled people an opportunity with an understanding that they are on a short leash. But if you overdo it like the Al Davis Raiders did then you are asking for trouble. Definitely a risk/reward balance to be had. I don't mind taking some but I'm rarely going to kill an organization for trusting their gut on a guy. We tend not to have a ton of access to the guys true characters - just arrest records and occassionally failed drug tests. Neither means near as much as the type of people they are day to day, as even good kids mess up and career criminals can do well not getting arrested. Teams actually get into those types of profiles that we don't as fans. If kikos genuinely a great kid that partied a bit too hard as an 18 year old- no big deal, for instance. In his own way it sounds like Hernandez, much like honey badger needed to go far away from New Orleans, needed to stay away from New England Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts