my skepticism

[jester43]

thanks for bringing this up jw. i will never understand why some fans rush to defend the bills from media scrutiny(from you or sully or whoever else) when the fact is...as stated above..they have forced us to suck the high hard one for a very long time now. and the "negative" point of view almost always turns out to be the most accurate.

 

i liked the marrone hire,and i was convinced it was a good pick ...until he started bringing every tom dick and harry from his staff to one bills drive. I know coaches have guys they "know," but don't tell me you're going to go to the ends of the earth for a world class staff and then just bring in 8 guys from Syracuse.

 

That smells like Brandon, whose image seems to have been rehabilitated a bit by all this....but this is the same snake oil salesman who seems to have a lot of fans convinced the Bills can't possibly survive here unless they sell off home games.

 

and now ryan Nassib is talking suspiciously like he's already here...it's starting to make me wonder. what Marrone is up to. Does anyone think we're going to solve our problems by cherry picking Syracuse? I mean this isn't LSU an hour from Buffalo!

 

And the front office concerns are unchanged. For a team that picks as high as we do every year, the results have been underwhelming...presumable that's not going to change.

 

i don't know...i am more optimistic than i've been in awhile but the bar on that is very low...

 

and John, not to change the topic, but really....how could you guys all sit in that presser and NO ONE asks Brandon how the Toronto series factored into the various candidates' view of this job?? That alone should make Chip Kelly want to look elsewhere. I would have LOVED to see him look at you guys and say none of these guys mind playing a game in Toronto...because we all know that would have been a lie...

[Kelly the Dog]

Now you're twisting Brandon's words, because that's not what was said. Lurker is right, every higherarchial organization has internal dissent but they have a unified public face, usually through an official spokesman.

I don't think I was twisting his words at all. Of course there is a unified public face. I admitted I thought it was smart and what should be done. It was a couple weeks ago but did you listen to that interview? I remember thinking distinctly at the time that it didn't sound right. It sounded like they didn't agree (he of course didn't say anything like that it was just the impression I got)

 

During the interview it seemed to me he said there was a lot of debate and discussion and there were all kinds of differing opinions on the candidates. They liked them all (of course, this is Brandon who is like Jon Gruden when discussing pros and cons). But then they come out and say "Everyone agrees completely all along this was our guy as soon as we talked to him." And I think you and I both know, and think, that is not what happened at all.

 

I understand it. I agree that is what they should do. I don't think he should have said it the way he did, the time he did, in that discussion. It's possible that I read too much into it. I don't think so though.

[CodeMonkey]

I see the current situation as no different than it was 3 years ago.

Hardcore koolaid drinkers loving the Gailey hire and were thinking superbowl.

Hardcore haters cursing OBD for committing such a heinous hire.

And the rest scratching their heads a little and hoping for the best.

 

I was scratching my head then and now, not so much over the Marrone hiring as much as the majority of the rest of the hires and the timing of them, and am still hoping for the best.

 

We will see.

Edited January 19, 2013 by CodeMonkey

[Lurker]

Then, to the public, they come out and say "Marrone was our unanimous consensus choice all along", which is nonsense.

 

Those kind of hypotheticals are just whistling in the wind. I doubt even Chip Kelly would have been a unanimous choice among all the elements of the front office, given the big question marks around his lack of NFL experience.

 

There were no slam dunk choices this year among the retreads. And among the up-and-comers, Marrone's resume/potential is among the best (or near the top) of the other HCs hired so far, IMO.

 

This would all have been moot if some of the assistants he's hired hadn't caused the chattering class (me included on the Driesbach hire) to second guess and scratch the scabs of past coaching failures at OBD.

[Fan in San Diego]

I liked Marrone at Syracuse and I was a little upset that he left. Apparently if the Bills didn't hire him, there were other teams interested so he may have ended up leaving Syracuse anyway. If it is true that other teams were interested, then I think the Bills deserve a little more respect for the choice.

 

I am optimistic about the fact that Marrone is a young guy with energy. I hope to see him getting into players' and refs' faces every so often on the sidelines. That would be a HUGE departure from the last few Bills coaches, and I think it would send a powerful message that things are changing.

 

I like the idea of hiring guys off the Jets coaching staff for the defense, I expect that to make a difference right away.

 

I agree that the Hackett choice for OC AND QB Coach is baffling. When they announced this decision, I was disappointed. I am nervous that the Bills will go from last year's complex offense and simple defense to next year's simple offense and complex defense. I also believe there will be a new QB to go with the new OC, so they will both be learning together.

 

If they draft Nassib at #8 I think this board will explode with all the anger and disgust. I won't mind, it just means that the Bills are putting all their eggs in one basket, and it will be interesting to see how the season develops. They will all sink or swim together.

 

This telegraphs the move to draft Nassib. I'm fine with that, I think they will light up the scoreboard. We just need some WR's who can catch the ball.

[yungmack]

Here's how Nix has had a major impact in turning around the Bills: when he first took over, he couldn''t get any of the top candidates to even do an interview for HC. According to several reports, this time around, they were calling him. And every candidate they were interested in met with them. That suggests to me that the Bills have risen from laughing stock to at least being perceived as a franchise on the verge of success. This is no small thing.

[first_and_ten]

Brandon's a marketer John, and that's exactly what this was, a carefully crafted marketing set-up. You hit the nail on the head here.

 

When the best thing that can be said about the changes are that they're "in a different direction," well, then clearly it has marketing at its core. Hiring high school coaches would have been in a different direction too, that wouldn't make it a sound move.

 

Should we have expected different from a marketing person? (semi-rhetorical)

 

I would say that it has largely worked, wouldn't you? All that the organization needed was for fans to cut them some more slack instead of standing up and telling them to go pound sand in a proverbial manner of speaking. I think that the reaction that they've gotten was about as favorable as it could have been short of hiring Lovie Smith, someone that took a similar team and averaged 9-7 with it, wouldn't you.

 

So, without having given up more control than Brandon & Co. would have liked, they've gotten the best reaction that they could have, fans are apparently ready to empty their wallets again next season if for no other reason than "it's different."

 

So from that perspective, I'd say mission accomplished by the marketers.

 

You really believe that this hire was nothing more than a marketing ploy? From my view, I see Marrone as a hard working coach, who has paid his dues and turned an absolutely horrible situation in Syracuse into a very respectable program. He has NFL experience. He has a solid repuation and has actually played the game too. Who would have been a better hire? Lovie Smith, who was fired because his offenses in Chicago have absolutley stunk? Maybe they just hired the guy who was most impressive. Maybe they hired the guy who was not a retread, who was not fired, who seems ready to take the next step in a promising career. How extensive a search should the Bills have made? When they found the right man, should they have said, 'we'll get back to you" so that they couldn't be accused as not being extensive enough in their search? Take the chance that some other team would scoop him up? it woud be stupid to find the guy who you think is right, to then wastes time on a fruitless search just for the sake of appearances.Time will tell if this was a good hire or not. I for one am giving them the benefit of doubt based on Marrome's resume.

[Delete This Account]

i would also question some of the "glowing" reports that have come out regarding this hire. Marrone has already called one of those reports false in claiming he made a video presentation to each of the teams he interviewed. i would consider the source(s) of those reports and see whether they might have certain similar ties in regards to representation, and whether it raises any questions in regards to a conflict of interest.

 

jw

[first_and_ten]

i would also question some of the "glowing" reports that have come out regarding this hire. Marrone has already called one of those reports false in claiming he made a video presentation to each of the teams he interviewed. i would consider the source(s) of those reports and see whether they might have certain similar ties in regards to representation, and whether it raises any questions in regards to a conflict of interest.

 

jw

 

Then the conspiracy must run pretty wide since many different football people really liked this hire. I don't think the Bills would spend so much time trying to convince everyone that they made a good hire. They would let the proof be in the pudding as one might say. If Marrone is a good hire or not, it will become readily apparent soon enough. I could see some of the media trying to undermine the hire because the Bills are not being as forthcoming as they might like.So, yes, there may be a conflict of interest. But the conflict might be with various media people.

[CodeMonkey]

Then the conspiracy must run pretty wide since many different football people really liked this hire.

As with the Gailey hire.

[first_and_ten]

As with the Gailey hire.

 

What does apples have to do with oranges?

[MRW]

As with the Gailey hire.

I don't remember the same degree of positive response to Gailey's hiring among NFL reporters/observers/former players. In particular I don't recall reading anything that came close to the things that players who were coached by Marrone have said.

[Dr. Trooth]

A few extra comments.

 

Define exhaustive and thorough! If, in your hc coach search, you're on the road, in interviews & meetings 18 hrs. a day over 5 days, what do you call that?

 

There were 8 coaching vacancies. Of the 8 HCs kicked to the curb, only 1 got an HC gig in the NFL.

 

Obviousy, Lovie & whiz weren't #1 on any NFL team's list. There were at least 3 teams that passed on McCoy and at least 2 that passed on Kelly. We don't know who passed on Marrone because it went down pretty quick. But Mort reports Marrone was #1 on at least 2 other teams, one being the Chargers. Trestman was only # 1 on the Bears list after 3 weeks and the Bears apparently didn't want McCoy. Trestman, at 60 yrs. old, was the oldest of the new HC hires and is parallelled by some with Levy simply because of his age and CFL HC gig.... which is bs because in addition to the CFL, Levy had an HC gig with the Chicago Fire and KC Chiefs. My perception of Trestman is that he is the offensive equivalent of Dick Jauron. We'll all see where that goes.

 

Now, let's assume Marrone was hired by one of those two other teams that Mort reported. Would Marrone's selection of assistants be any different? And, would be there be any suggestion it was a move to be part of a regionalization strategy? But, because Syracuse is 3 hrs. east, where Marrone & a bunch of assistants coached, there are automatic conclusions drawn regarding regionalization. Like the Bills didn't already have a solid fan base in the Auburn, Syracuse, Utica, Albany corridor.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Dr. Trooth

[first_and_ten]

A few extra comments.

 

Define exhaustive and thorough! If, in your hc coach search, you're on the road, in interviews & meetings 18 hrs. a day over 5 days, what do you call that?

 

There were 8 coaching vacancies. Of the 8 HCs kicked to the curb, only 1 got an HC gig in the NFL.

 

Obviousy, Lovie & whiz weren't #1 on any NFL team's list. There were at least 3 teams that passed on McCoy and at least 2 that passed on Kelly. We don't know who passed on Marrone because it went down pretty quick. But Mort reports Marrone was #1 on at least 2 other teams, one being the Chargers. Trestman was only # 1 on the Bears list after 3 weeks and the Bears apparently didn't want McCoy. Trestman, at 60 yrs. old, was the oldest of the new HC hires and is parallelled by some with Levy simply because of his age and CFL HC gig.... which is bs because in addition to the CFL, Levy had an HC gig with the Chicago Fire and KC Chiefs. My perception of Trestman is that he is the offensive equivalent of Dick Jauron. We'll all see where that goes.

 

Now, let's assume Marrone was hired by one of those two other teams that Mort reported. Would Marrone's selection of assistants be any different? And, would be there be any suggestion it was a move to be part of a regionalization strategy? But, because Syracuse is 3 hrs. east, where Marrone & a bunch of assistants coached, there are automatic conclusions drawn regarding regionalization. Like the Bills didn't already have a solid fan base in the Auburn, Syracuse, Utica, Albany corridor.

[Malazan]

I'm pretty angry that I wasn't granted an interview when I sent a request to the Bills.

[San-O]

i hope Doug Marrone succeeds, and yet i'm left to wonder if this search was as "exhaustive" as Russ Brandon vowed it would be. He said there would be "no stone left unturned." and yet, there appears to have been some stones that weren't even touched.

what concerns me further is that there's been a clear desire on the part of the Buffalo Bills to "market" this coach and his staff to the public with team-generated, spoon-fed questions and quotes. there appears to be a want and desire to "market" this choice, without the glare of actual objective questioning.

 

this could surely well be interpreted as a complaint in regards to how the Buffalo Bills intend to control their message and how it's presented to the public. I certainly hope that after 13 years of covering a non-playoff team that they have it right. To me, I have several questions, including whether Mr. Brandon succeeded in his term as the Bills' GM, a time in which the team drafted Leodis McKelvin and Aaron Maybin in the first round.

 

jw.

 

Half the staff is coming from Syracuse, so the staff they field next year is going to be largely college coaches. From same team No too exhuastive.

 

The Special Teams guy from Detroit, which I don;t think his credentials are terribly good, was a former teammate. Not very exhaustive.

 

Seems to me he basically picked up the phone or walked down the hall for the most part.

 

I do like the Jets D hire: that makes a lot of sense to me.

[Mr. WEO]

i hope Doug Marrone succeeds, and yet i'm left to wonder if this search was as "exhaustive" as Russ Brandon vowed it would be. He said there would be "no stone left unturned." and yet, there appears to have been some stones that weren't even touched.

what concerns me further is that there's been a clear desire on the part of the Buffalo Bills to "market" this coach and his staff to the public with team-generated, spoon-fed questions and quotes. there appears to be a want and desire to "market" this choice, without the glare of actual objective questioning.

 

this could surely well be interpreted as a complaint in regards to how the Buffalo Bills intend to control their message and how it's presented to the public. I certainly hope that after 13 years of covering a non-playoff team that they have it right. To me, I have several questions, including whether Mr. Brandon succeeded in his term as the Bills' GM, a time in which the team drafted Leodis McKelvin and Aaron Maybin in the first round.

 

jw.

 

Traveling to Syracuse all the way from Buffalo can be very exhausting!

 

I agree that the selections have been heavily marketed--and it works! Witness how the citizens of TBD have jumped on board for a hire few would have considered, at all, 6 months or a year ago. The choice for OC is especially tough to sell--but guys are buying it. It's like 2010 all over again.

 

I guess it's tough to judge the selection of HC. The choices this year were awful, so maybe it was wise to pick up a local guy (and hype up his "major turnaround" at SU, where he "reintroduced a winning culture"--every other year, anyway...) who is otherwise a complete black box (other than serving as Payton's Modkins for a few years). This way, no one can point to an NFL record of success or failure.

 

It may actually be a master stroke by Russ (this was his pick all the way), who's major forte is marketing (and, by necessity, bullsh**t). Would any other team have picked Marrone? We will never know, but Brandon is content to let the thinking that several other teams had him as number one on their list hang there in the air.

 

Bottom line? Whaddayagonnado? Bad year to be looking for a HC. This is what was out there.

[Best Player Available]

i would also question some of the "glowing" reports that have come out regarding this hire. Marrone has already called one of those reports false in claiming he made a video presentation to each of the teams he interviewed. i would consider the source(s) of those reports and see whether they might have certain similar ties in regards to representation, and whether it raises any questions in regards to a conflict of interest.

 

jw

I'm almost certain but don't have the link. But, Marrone announced (ESPN?)he was available for a move to the NFL before the Bills search even began. A video "presentation" would almost prove that.

If true, then it's obvious other teams that were looking to hire a head coach would want to interview him, just because he's out there.

So for some thinking the Bills made a huge steal by signing him, and by default "be ahead of the curve" kind of means just that he was their target, they interviewed him with full intentions from the start of offering him the gig.

Chip Kelly said before the Fiesta bowl that if teems were interested he would listen.

To me anyways Marrone was making it very clear he wanted a head coaching position in the NFL.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Best Player Available

[Captain Hindsight]

thanks for bringing this up jw. i will never understand why some fans rush to defend the bills from media scrutiny(from you or sully or whoever else) when the fact is...as stated above..they have forced us to suck the high hard one for a very long time now. and the "negative" point of view almost always turns out to be the most accurate.

 

i liked the marrone hire,and i was convinced it was a good pick ...until he started bringing every tom dick and harry from his staff to one bills drive. I know coaches have guys they "know," but don't tell me you're going to go to the ends of the earth for a world class staff and then just bring in 8 guys from Syracuse.

 

That smells like Brandon, whose image seems to have been rehabilitated a bit by all this....but this is the same snake oil salesman who seems to have a lot of fans convinced the Bills can't possibly survive here unless they sell off home games.

 

and now ryan Nassib is talking suspiciously like he's already here...it's starting to make me wonder. what Marrone is up to. Does anyone think we're going to solve our problems by cherry picking Syracuse? I mean this isn't LSU an hour from Buffalo!

 

And the front office concerns are unchanged. For a team that picks as high as we do every year, the results have been underwhelming...presumable that's not going to change.

 

i don't know...i am more optimistic than i've been in awhile but the bar on that is very low...

 

and John, not to change the topic, but really....how could you guys all sit in that presser and NO ONE asks Brandon how the Toronto series factored into the various candidates' view of this job?? That alone should make Chip Kelly want to look elsewhere. I would have LOVED to see him look at you guys and say none of these guys mind playing a game in Toronto...because we all know that would have been a lie...

Why the hell woudl that make any difference in the world? Seriously one of 32 jobs in the NFL and they have to play one home game in Toronto? Thats gonna make them look elsewhere?

 

I hate losing a game to Toronto as much as the next guy but NFL coaches should expect to win everywhere, not just at OBD

[Lofton80]

I am fine with the choice of Marrone. The Bills interviewed a number of candidates who appeared to be interested in the job. Contrast this to the last search when no one wanted the job and we ended up with Gailey. I would rather Marrone focus on interviewing a coaching staff and getting familiar with his new team than an in depth Q & A session.

 

As for who picked Maybin, not sure how this signals anything relative to Marrone's selection.

[Dr. K]

I'm skeptical about the special teams and the offense. I'm pretty much prepared to say right now that, barring a major upgrade in personnel and maybe not even then, the offense will take a step back, not forward, from the 2012 Bills team.

[Willyville Guy]

Does anyone think we're going to solve our problems by cherry picking Syracuse? I mean this isn't LSU an hour from Buffalo!

 

 

I really hope the new group does well and I'm along for the ride. But the above sits in the pit of my stomach like an anchor.

[Kelly the Dog]

I could be wrong but I don't remember the Gailey hire being this way at all. I think the vast majority here were, like, WTF?! I hardly remember anyone liking the hire when it was announced, including myself.

 

Later, when people started looking into him, after realizing he was our guy so maybe we need to rally around him, people, including myself, were scrambling to look on the bright side. Not to be koolaid drinkers, but simply because it doesn't do any good to just B word about something between the hire and a year or even a couple years later when a decent verdict can be postulated.

 

Sooooo, then and only then, people started to say his record at Dallas was pretty good. The Chin recommended him. (Later on Jerry Jones said it was his biggest mistake, etc.)

 

Then, after he was introduced, people, including myself, liked the way he talked. He came across as a straight shooter. I think more and more started to give him the benefit of the doubt. Again, not really just being a shill for the team, but more hoping it was going to be okay. Then more and more stories came out about him wanting the job when a lot of other guys either turned the Bills down or turned down the interview. Whether or not all these reports or some of them were true or not was immaterial. No one really knew. So Chan started to get even more sympathy from the fans, who got behind him.

 

Over the course of the next two years, he either grew on you, or you thought he sucked. He grew on me. I started to like him. I thought the team looked a LOT better, especially around the Steeler and Raven close call losses. I started to really like him.

 

It still seemed about half and half between the fan base, maybe even 2/3 to 1/3 behind him at certain points. Polls on other sites had his approval rating in the 90s. It was understandable.

 

And then this year, he sucked, the entire year. The team disintegrated, for various reasons, including his selection of Wanny, which most everyone including myself liked at the time but which proved to be a monumental disaster. And over the course of the year, pretty much every non-shill turned on Chan.

 

I don't see the Marrone hire or reaction anything at all like the Gailey hire.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Kelly the Dog

[KOKBILLS]

I could be wrong but I don't remember the Gailey hire being this way at all. I think the vast majority here were, like, WTF?! I hardly remember anyone liking the hire when it was announced, including myself.

 

Later, when people started looking into him, after realizing he was our guy so maybe we need to rally around him, people, including myself, were scrambling to look on the bright side. Not to be koolaid drinkers, but simply because it doesn't do any good to just B word about something between the hire and a year or even a couple years later when a decent verdict can be postulated.

 

Sooooo, then and only then, people started to say his record at Dallas was pretty good. The Chin recommended him. (Later on Jerry Jones said it was his biggest mistake, etc.)

 

Then, after he was introduced, people, including myself, liked the way he talked. He came across as a straight shooter. I think more and more started to give him the benefit of the doubt. Again, not really just being a shill for the team, but more hoping it was going to be okay. Then more and more stories came out about him wanting the job when a lot of other guys either turned the Bills down or turned down the interview. Whether or not all these reports or some of them were true or not was immaterial. No one really knew. So Chan started to get even more sympathy from the fans, who got behind him.

 

Over the course of the next two years, he either grew on you, or you thought he sucked. He grew on me. I started to like him. I thought the team looked a LOT better, especially around the Steeler and Raven close call losses. I started to really like him.

 

It still seemed about half and half between the fan base, maybe even 2/3 to 1/3 behind him at certain points. Polls on other sites had his approval rating in the 90s. It was understandable.

 

And then this year, he sucked, the entire year. The team disintegrated, for various reasons, including his selection of Wanny, which most everyone including myself liked at the time but which proved to be a monumental disaster. And over the course of the year, pretty much every non-shill turned on Chan.

 

I don't see the Marrone hire or reaction anything at all like the Gailey hire.

 

Could not possibly agree more...

[Dr. K]

I could be wrong but I don't remember the Gailey hire being this way at all. I think the vast majority here were, like, WTF?! I hardly remember anyone liking the hire when it was announced, including myself.

 

Later, when people started looking into him, after realizing he was our guy so maybe we need to rally around him, people, including myself, were scrambling to look on the bright side. Not to be koolaid drinkers, but simply because it doesn't do any good to just B word about something between the hire and a year or even a couple years later when a decent verdict can be postulated.

 

Sooooo, then and only then, people started to say his record at Dallas was pretty good. The Chin recommended him. (Later on Jerry Jones said it was his biggest mistake, etc.)

 

Then, after he was introduced, people, including myself, liked the way he talked. He came across as a straight shooter. I think more and more started to give him the benefit of the doubt. Again, not really just being a shill for the team, but more hoping it was going to be okay. Then more and more stories came out about him wanting the job when a lot of other guys either turned the Bills down or turned down the interview. Whether or not all these reports or some of them were true or not was immaterial. No one really knew. So Chan started to get even more sympathy from the fans, who got behind him.

 

Over the course of the next two years, he either grew on you, or you thought he sucked. He grew on me. I started to like him. I thought the team looked a LOT better, especially around the Steeler and Raven close call losses. I started to really like him.

 

It still seemed about half and half between the fan base, maybe even 2/3 to 1/3 behind him at certain points. Polls on other sites had his approval rating in the 90s. It was understandable.

 

And then this year, he sucked, the entire year. The team disintegrated, for various reasons, including his selection of Wanny, which most everyone including myself liked at the time but which proved to be a monumental disaster. And over the course of the year, pretty much every non-shill turned on Chan.

 

I don't see the Marrone hire or reaction anything at all like the Gailey hire.

 

This seems pretty accurate to me. I think Gailey's major mistake was hiring Edwards, and then hiring Wanstadt (and I was behind the Wanstadt hire, thinking it would make all the difference. It did. It got Gailey fired.)

Edited January 19, 2013 by Dr. K

[John from Riverside]

First of all....always much respect to you for contributing to the forum

 

that said

 

Every time you post like this I post under the assumption that you know more then I do about what the bills are doing (or in this case have done)

 

Are you saying that Brandon make those picks and not the GM? Because you are calling him the GM. If in fact Brandon had been making past sections I would be EXTREMELY bothered by that because that means that a man who proclaims himself not to be a "football guy" has been making football guy decisions rather then Buddy Nix. If you know more about this I wish you would elaborate.

 

Now...regarding the coaches a couple of things to consider

 

- A lot of people are calling Morrone more of the same.....it really isnt....it really isnt CLOSE to being the same. We have traded in going for retreads in the NFL that have failed somewhere else to going to a fresh young college coach who has yet to lose in the NFL. Its thinking completely outside the box for us and its refreshing. They interviewed several coaches and didnt make the "supposid mistake" that the fans were dreading in Whisenhunt and Lovie Smith (who in turn were not taken by anyone else either as everyone else was looking for fresh as well except for the Chiefs)

 

- Chip Kelly was the prom queen....Morrone was 2nd hottest best friend to many of the teams needing coaches. I applaud the bills that when they realized Kelly was not in the cards for them they acted fast before the browns realized it to and swooped in on Marrone........we didnt get leftovers at HC this year we got a guy that other teams actually WANTED.

 

- Because we sorted out our HC early......we had first pickings on other coaches after that. Pettine was a HUGE win. Are people forgetting that his defenses are consistantly top 10 (currently....not in the past like Wanstaddt) and that he plays a aggressive attacking style of defense.....now do people realize we have been ridiculously bad on defense for TOO MANY consecutive years now? THAT was the area that we really needed to address quickly and address well! And because they didnt turn over every rock when they realized they had found what they needed they didnt give a team like the browns an opportunity to swoop in and take Marrone (who in turn would probably have taken Pettine due to their relationship) on defense the bills showed me the baby.

 

- Then Pettine brought along with him several positional coaches from the good jets defense along with him....keeping continuity there.

 

- On offense Morrone brings in Paul Hacket as his OC. Once again......looking for FRESH here but with NFL experience but I understand the uncertainty. To me this is a hire that says "I have good chemistry with this coach and I need continuity to run my offense" which is not nec a bad thing.

 

- I like positional coaches hirings like Wheatley on offense.....would have liked to see the TE's coach brought back.

 

- The special teams hire is the only one that really gives me pause because he has not had RECENT ST's success.......in fact it was just plain bad recently BUT......if you are going to say Morrone is a good hire then you have to trust him to pick his coaches.....there is SOOO much that factors into good special teams especially the talent on the ST unit......

 

Overall.....show me the baby but I just thank christ we are going to go in a NEW direction and not stick with the insanity of picking another retread coach to accomplish the same retread things.......

 

By the way.....if Nassib somehow ends up on this team we shouldnt be heading up to one bills drive with fire and pitchforks......because he is actuallly a GOOD QB who has pretty much everything we are looking for (strong arm, accurate, tough, fairly mobile)

 

I would prefer it not to be at the 8th pick though.....either trade down or up.

[Coach Tuesday]

First of all....always much respect to you for contributing to the forum

 

that said

 

Every time you post like this I post under the assumption that you know more then I do about what the bills are doing (or in this case have done)

 

Are you saying that Brandon make those picks and not the GM? Because you are calling him the GM. If in fact Brandon had been making past sections I would be EXTREMELY bothered by that because that means that a man who proclaims himself not to be a "football guy" has been making football guy decisions rather then Buddy Nix. If you know more about this I wish you would elaborate.

 

This is what bugs me. If you have something to report, report it. I can't stand these insinuations and suggestions. Especially when they seem to be accompanied by an implicit suggestion, or at least a hint, that us fans are allowing ourselves to be deceived, and if we only knew the real info, we'd be skeptical like you are. Everybody is letting WNYers down - the team, the owner, the politicians, and yes, the media. Cripes.

[MRW]

To me, I have several questions, including whether Mr. Brandon succeeded in his term as the Bills' GM, a time in which the team drafted Leodis McKelvin and Aaron Maybin in the first round.

I want to highlight this line, because I have to ask, why is this a question? I thought everyone, including Brandon, acknowledged that he was not a success as the de facto GM. That's why we now have Nix/Whaley. So I'm left wondering what you mean by this.

[3rdand12]

i would also question some of the "glowing" reports that have come out regarding this hire. Marrone has already called one of those reports false in claiming he made a video presentation to each of the teams he interviewed. i would consider the source(s) of those reports and see whether they might have certain similar ties in regards to representation, and whether it raises any questions in regards to a conflict of interest.

 

jw

I would not suggest conspiracy theory whatsoever. But may i suggest the Process of choosing the next coach(s) began well before Russ took the reins. And that Marrone was already feeling favoritism from Bills on the qt.

This whole thing is looking planned out to me. Marketing sure, doesnt hurt. I think it has been a refreshing enough house cleaning.

Bringing in continuity on both offense and def coaching personel. This method has the feel of "starting over " in the biggest sense of the word. I hope everyone will be patient .

Russ or Nix did say, if i recall correct, " if they found the one they liked they would go for him right then " or something thereabouts.

But you have some valid points in the opening post

[GG]

Let's try reading in between the lines.

 

It's not that Marrone was hired, but how the hiring came about, how the story broke and the glowing press that followed. I alluded to this at the time, but details usually get lost in the euphoria.

 

As of Saturday night, January 5, the rumor mill had Whiz as the leading candidate, with Lovie tentatively second, and a brief blurb that Bills conducted fast track interviews in Arizona with Horton, Marrone & Kelly. Although the timelines were suspect in how & when the interviews were conducted, there wasn't much follo up on this.

 

Suddenly, at 5AM, Schefter "broke" the story that Bills hired Marrone. Now, why would Schefter get the story first? Did Bills & Marrone negotiate all night and did Schefter camp outside the clandestine meetings between the two parties? Did anyone ask or report on how & why the NFL insider got the scoop?

 

Or should we take jw's hints to their logical conclusion? Who is Schefter's agent? Who is Marrone's agent? Which agency has the largest number of clients overlapping athletes, coaches and talking heads? It's a Creative Answer Apparently ...

 

So while I was ok with Marrone's hire, it was a bit unusual to see the an avalanche of adulating press coming out of the woodwork for a relatively obscure hire. But if you looked at the sources of the adulation, it's easy to spot a well-crafted PR message by one of the best agencies in the business. So take what you read with a massive grain of salt. By extension, you should also discount 90% of the sports "news" you hear on ESPN.

[CardinalScotts]

Found the guy hired him...now we'll see

[John from Riverside]

Found the guy hired him...now we'll see

 

Yeah that is pretty much where I am at as well......I am totally show me the baby this offseason after years of being first at the koolaid punchbowl.....

 

but it just never fails to amaze me when I look at fan reaction

 

- We better not hire whizenhunt....he sucs

 

- We better not hire lovie...he sucks

 

- Chip Kelly has no NFL experience....he sucks

 

- Dont hire Horton....he will make us change our defense

 

- God if Morrone drafts Nassib.......then I know its more of the same

 

 

I mean.....really? Was there a right answer for the fans? And now even though Ryan Nassib looked like a good QB in college with all the tools and is getting even better every year if we draft a guy like that then we suck? Really?

[JoeF]

So is this the worst case scenario --

 

First, the Marrone hire inside homer hire that was pre-destined from the moment Chan was fired. It was done partially because of finances and partially because Russ wants to further regionalize the franchise.

 

Second, the Bills are having trouble attracting top notch assistants. Other than Pettine, Crossman, Hillard and Henderson the Bills are left with guys that have never had the role they have now at the pro level and Henderson and Crossman have been fired from the roles they now have by other teams and Hillard's team freely let him go for a lateral promotion. O'Neill and Weaver were both assitants to an assistant.

 

The next logical steps in a further decline of this franchise are:

- Marrone hires an inexperienced coach for O-Line

- Fitz is retained

- Byrd and Levitre are both allowed to leave

- They draft Nassib at 8

 

If all this happens the Bills will surely decline even further into the abyss -- and now with 7 years of new lease -- the non-playoff streak will stretch to 20.

[John from Riverside]

So is this the worst case scenario --

 

First, the Marrone hire inside homer hire that was pre-destined from the moment Chan was fired. It was done partially because of finances and partially because Russ wants to further regionalize the franchise.

 

Second, the Bills are having trouble attracting top notch assistants. Other than Pettine, Crossman, Hillard and Henderson the Bills are left with guys that have never had the role they have now at the pro level and Henderson and Crossman have been fired from the roles they now have by other teams and Hillard's team freely let him go for a lateral promotion. O'Neill and Weaver were both assitants to an assistant.

 

The next logical steps in a further decline of this franchise are:

- Marrone hires an inexperienced coach for O-Line

- Fitz is retained

- Byrd and Levitre are both allowed to leave

- They draft Nassib at 8

 

If all this happens the Bills will surely decline even further into the abyss -- and now with 7 years of new lease -- the non-playoff streak will stretch to 20.

 

Guys who have made it to the level of DC generally make pretty damn good positional coaches Joe.....just saying

 

And speedbumping past Pettine is interesting.......because positional coaches mean a heck of a lot less then a complete steal at HC. we just hired the DC of a team that is known for its defense......consistantly good defense.

 

Sorry all the doom and gloom is just a bit early......there is a lot to like about these hires

[JoeF]

Guys who have made it to the level of DC generally make pretty damn good positional coaches Joe.....just saying

 

And speedbumping past Pettine is interesting.......because positional coaches mean a heck of a lot less then a complete steal at HC. we just hired the DC of a team that is known for its defense......consistantly good defense.

 

Sorry all the doom and gloom is just a bit early......there is a lot to like about these hires

 

Got it John--I wasn't posting what I believe -- I was posting what the worst case was...all in all the worst case isn't that freakin' far from where we are today in reality.

 

So what's the point of the all whole thread? That Russ is incompetent and lying to us -- Newsflash -- we as Bills fans have basically been lied to by management for the last decade plus....starting with the whole Flutie/Johnson thing through TD, Marv, Russ and now Buddy. Yet--I will continue to date our version of Lennay Kekua...because I love the Bills.

Edited January 19, 2013 by JoeF

[jester43]

Why the hell woudl that make any difference in the world? Seriously one of 32 jobs in the NFL and they have to play one home game in Toronto? Thats gonna make them look elsewhere?

 

you gotta be kidding. who would sign up for a disadvantage like that if they had other options?

[KeisterHollow]

All any of us can do at this point in time is cross our fingers and hope it works out. Seriously, this franchise has fallen so far that if this new coaching staff does not produce winning results, does not change the culture and turn the Bills into a legitimate, respected team, how many fans are going to wait out 3 or 4 years of failure, only to hope another savior comes along? What I mean to say is this: I see this hire as the Bills last chance with many fans - because if the same results continue to happen, if the team continually falls short and baffles us with bone-headed decisions, I - and, I suspect, many other fans - will just tune out. As far as I'm concerned, the Bills change their ways now, or I'm done supporting them. I want competence, and I want to see a talented, prepared, competitive team. Nothing short of that will keep me involved from here out.

[Dr. Trooth]

This seems pretty accurate to me. I think Gailey's major mistake was hiring Edwards, and then hiring Wanstadt (and I was behind the Wanstadt hire, thinking it would make all the difference. It did. It got Gailey fired.)

 

The mistake was in hiring Gailey at all. He's an offensive guy all the way and demonstated over the past three seasons he either didn't have much interest or much knowledge of the totality of the game of football, thus that is why he hired incompetent guys like Edwards & Wanny. At least Marrone stated up front he's the head coach and he aint calling the plays. However, he will be in charge of game planning and the offensive, defensive, and special teams strategy will go through him. He'll have the headset on him for defense and offense. Seems to me the guy might be interested in the game as a whole, not just a single phase, as has been the case with the past 5 Bills head coaches. He also isn't married to a partcular scheme of a defensive or an offensive system.... but both will be aggressive and physical and will use the skills of the current players to their and the team's advantage.

[Stevie Ray]

Yeah that is pretty much where I am at as well......I am totally show me the baby this offseason after years of being first at the koolaid punchbowl.....

 

but it just never fails to amaze me when I look at fan reaction

 

- We better not hire whizenhunt....he sucs

 

- We better not hire lovie...he sucks

 

- Chip Kelly has no NFL experience....he sucks

 

- Dont hire Horton....he will make us change our defense

 

- God if Morrone drafts Nassib.......then I know its more of the same

 

 

I mean.....really? Was there a right answer for the fans? And now even though Ryan Nassib looked like a good QB in college with all the tools and is getting even better every year if we draft a guy like that then we suck? Really?

 

Well said John, well said! No matter what choice was made, there would always be a segment that would find something to complain about. And as a previous poster stated, not a single down has been played yet.

[JohnC]

Traveling to Syracuse all the way from Buffalo can be very exhausting!

 

I agree that the selections have been heavily marketed--and it works! Witness how the citizens of TBD have jumped on board for a hire few would have considered, at all, 6 months or a year ago. The choice for OC is especially tough to sell--but guys are buying it. It's like 2010 all over again.

 

I guess it's tough to judge the selection of HC. The choices this year were awful, so maybe it was wise to pick up a local guy (and hype up his "major turnaround" at SU, where he "reintroduced a winning culture"--every other year, anyway...) who is otherwise a complete black box (other than serving as Payton's Modkins for a few years). This way, no one can point to an NFL record of success or failure.

 

It may actually be a master stroke by Russ (this was his pick all the way), who's major forte is marketing (and, by necessity, bullsh**t). Would any other team have picked Marrone? We will never know, but Brandon is content to let the thinking that several other teams had him as number one on their list hang there in the air.

 

Bottom line? Whaddayagonnado? Bad year to be looking for a HC. This is what was out there.

 

I don't understand what issues you have with the selection of Marrone. The hiring process was very compact, yet it was very credible. Isn't that better than the Buddy Nix "seat of the pants" hire of Gailey? If I recall correctly there was no real "selection process" with that particular hire. Most of the candidates that were on the market were interviewed. The Marrone hiring was a reasonable hire. You could lament that the caliber of candidates were not at the high end but that is not something you can control. You make a selection based on what is out there, not what you "wish" was out there.

 

There is no doubt that Brandon's background is in the business and marketing side of sports. But he is not a fool. He is now in a position where the record that is established under his tenure is a record that he owns. He is not going to go out and hire someone primarily for marketing reasons. He is going to hire someone who is going to help him establish a winning record.

 

The issue of Marrone coming from a central NY college program is meaningless. What has meaning from his Syracuse experience is that he brought a college program mired in mediocrity and irrelevance to a program that became very competitive. If you add in the fact that he also had good experience in the pro ranks then it is obvious that his selection made a lot of sense.

Edited January 19, 2013 by JohnC