Coach Tuesday Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Put it another way: marketing only goes so far if the product falls short. We're not idiots. If Brandon is such a genius marketer he fully understands that the product better perform. It's that simple. I really don't care if they had their minds made up that this was the guy they wanted. If he doesn't perform, they're all toast, Brandon included (and by the way - you'd better believe he'll be the one to take the fall next time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 This is what bugs me. If you have something to report, report it. I can't stand these insinuations and suggestions. Especially when they seem to be accompanied by an implicit suggestion, or at least a hint, that us fans are allowing ourselves to be deceived, and if we only knew the real info, we'd be skeptical like you are. Everybody is letting WNYers down - the team, the owner, the politicians, and yes, the media. Cripes. There are no suggestions or insinuations of the sort; that's entirely your own creation. The guy doesn't have to have his reporter fedora on 24/7. He ought to be allowed to post his opinion like the rest of us without somebody climbing up his crack and questioning his professionalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 The mistake was in hiring Gailey at all. He's an offensive guy all the way and demonstated over the past three seasons he either didn't have much interest or much knowledge of the totality of the game of football, thus that is why he hired incompetent guys like Edwards & Wanny. At least Marrone stated up front he's the head coach and he aint calling the plays. However, he will be in charge of game planning and the offensive, defensive, and special teams strategy will go through him. He'll have the headset on him for defense and offense. Seems to me the guy might be interested in the game as a whole, not just a single phase, as has been the case with the past 5 Bills head coaches. He also isn't married to a partcular scheme of a defensive or an offensive system.... but both will be aggressive and physical and will use the skills of the current players to their and the team's advantage. That's the best case scenario. I hope you are right. We'll see. I tend to be an optimist, but I'm not convinced we are going to see better QB play, or a more effective offense--I think it's likely the new offense will not score as well--but we don't even know who the QB, or other crucial offensive personnel, will be, so that's premature. It would be hard for the defense not to be better, though. I expect a distinct improvement there. Special teams, I'd be happy if they managed to hold their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 I would say that most teams do not tip their hands as to what direction they plan to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Im gonna add this to John's post What is really getting lost in all of this is the Pettine hire....it is clear to me that wherever Marrone went that is where Pettine was gonna end up. Head Coaches are "managers"....they might have more experience on side of the ball or the other but in essence it is who they pick as OC and DC that ultimately decides there fate (hence Gailey took over the OC duties and was afraid to peek in the DC's meeting hence his destruction) What will ultimately decide failure or success here how well the OC and the DC do on this team.....and Pettine is now our DC. If our defense goes from whatever pathetic muck it is right now to top 10 (like all of Pettine's other defenses) then the Morrone hire will have been a success. Putting Fitz aside for just a second. It is our DEFENSE that has kept us out of the playoffs and their dead last rating for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) Well that settles it. We're boned. It was a short honeymoon. So who are we hiring next? But I do applaud jw for making an his opinion known. I did give him grief about it before. PTR Edited January 19, 2013 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Well that settles it. We're boned. It was a short honeymoon. So who are we hiring next? But I do applaud jw for making an his opinion known. I did give him grief about it before. PTR When Marrone is done we will have decided that Greggggggg Williams has been rehabilitated and bring him back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Im gonna add this to John's post What is really getting lost in all of this is the Pettine hire....it is clear to me that wherever Marrone went that is where Pettine was gonna end up. Head Coaches are "managers"....they might have more experience on side of the ball or the other but in essence it is who they pick as OC and DC that ultimately decides there fate (hence Gailey took over the OC duties and was afraid to peek in the DC's meeting hence his destruction) What will ultimately decide failure or success here how well the OC and the DC do on this team.....and Pettine is now our DC. If our defense goes from whatever pathetic muck it is right now to top 10 (like all of Pettine's other defenses) then the Morrone hire will have been a success. Putting Fitz aside for just a second. It is our DEFENSE that has kept us out of the playoffs and their dead last rating for years. Agree, the D lost us a lot of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Yeah that is pretty much where I am at as well......I am totally show me the baby this offseason after years of being first at the koolaid punchbowl..... but it just never fails to amaze me when I look at fan reaction - We better not hire whizenhunt....he sucs - We better not hire lovie...he sucks - Chip Kelly has no NFL experience....he sucks - Dont hire Horton....he will make us change our defense - God if Morrone drafts Nassib.......then I know its more of the same I mean.....really? Was there a right answer for the fans? And now even though Ryan Nassib looked like a good QB in college with all the tools and is getting even better every year if we draft a guy like that then we suck? Really? um John you know those cements are not all from the same person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 There are no suggestions or insinuations of the sort; that's entirely your own creation. The guy doesn't have to have his reporter fedora on 24/7. He ought to be allowed to post his opinion like the rest of us without somebody climbing up his crack and questioning his professionalism. Yes there definitely are. He is suggesting that the Bills have misled their fanbase about the depth of their coaching search, that "glowing" reports about Marrone have been planted by the OBD spin machine, and/or national reporters who have undisclosed conflicts of interest, and that Marrone may not be a competent and capable coach. You are right that he is entitled to his opinion but considering he is connected to a network of sources that the average fan has access to, and also considering that this is the first we are hearing about any of this, his opinion comes across as informed yet not fully revealed. The reason we all give his opinion greater weight than other posters' is the same reason I am asking for elaboration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Hope I'm wrong, but it's a bit hard to get excited for a guy who turned a bad college program into a mediocre one..... So taking the team to a higher level is bad? I thought that's what we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) Yes there definitely are. He is suggesting that the Bills have misled their fanbase about the depth of their coaching search, that "glowing" reports about Marrone have been planted by the OBD spin machine, and/or national reporters who have undisclosed conflicts of interest, and that Marrone may not be a competent and capable coach. You are right that he is entitled to his opinion but considering he is connected to a network of sources that the average fan has access to, and also considering that this is the first we are hearing about any of this, his opinion comes across as informed yet not fully revealed. The reason we all give his opinion greater weight than other posters' is the same reason I am asking for elaboration. You don't really expect him to reveal where this information came from, or what exactly was said to him (if something was, I have no idea), do you? He was posing a question and inviting discussion. I don't care how it came about at this point, I'm pretty happy overall with the Marrone/Pettine combination. But I don't believe for a second he was their first choice and only choice and guy they wanted all along, and was the #1 choice of everyone (Nix, Whaley, Brandon, Overdorf, Ralph). I wouldn't mind knowing how it transpired. I imagine they went after Whisenhunt pretty hard, regardless of whether he ended up getting a job elsewhere or not. It's entirely possible, that, just as an example, Whisenhunt or Lovie played their hand too strongly, and wanted too much money or too much control over the roster. Just because you're willing to spend top dollar for a coach, or "money is not an object" doesn't mean that you are willing to pay a guy 6 million a year when he asks for it when you, say, think he is worth three mil. I don't know what happened, but I'm sure a ton of stuff happened we don't know about, and then after it was all over the Bills come out and say, "Marrone was our guy all along and we got our guy." That is what I was alluding to earlier. I think that is likely nonsense. Edited January 19, 2013 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 You don't really expect him to reveal where this information came from, or what exactly was said to him (if something was, I have no idea), do you? He was posing a question and inviting discussion. I don't care how it came about at this point, I'm pretty happy overall with the Marrone/Pettine combination. But I don't believe for a second he was their first choice and only choice and guy they wanted all along, and was the #1 choice of everyone (Nix, Whaley, Brandon, Overdorf, Ralph). I wouldn't mind knowing how it transpired. I imagine they went after Whisenhunt pretty hard, regardless of whether he ended up getting a job elsewhere or not. It's entirely possible, that, just as an example, Whisenhunt or Lovie played their hand too strongly, and wanted too much money or too much control over the roster. Just because you're willing to spend top dollar for a coach, or "money is not an object" doesn't mean that you are willing to pay a guy 6 million a year when he asks for it when you, say, think he is worth three mil. I don't know what happened, but I'm sure a ton of stuff happened we don't know about, and then after it was all over the Bills come out and say, "Marrone was our guy all along and we got our guy." That is what I was alluding to earlier. I think that is likely nonsense. I agree - I don't expect him to reveal his sources, or even perhaps the verbatim information he received. But to suggest that there were specific "unturned stones" without revealing what they were, or that Brandon may have hand-picked McKelvin and Maybin, without any elaboration at all, is just such a tease. I'm not questioning his professionalism - I'm asking him to keep digging and report what he finds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 It is time to go with a proven high percentage coaching staff BUT....oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Let's try reading in between the lines. It's not that Marrone was hired, but how the hiring came about, how the story broke and the glowing press that followed. I alluded to this at the time, but details usually get lost in the euphoria. As of Saturday night, January 5, the rumor mill had Whiz as the leading candidate, with Lovie tentatively second, and a brief blurb that Bills conducted fast track interviews in Arizona with Horton, Marrone & Kelly. Although the timelines were suspect in how & when the interviews were conducted, there wasn't much follo up on this. Suddenly, at 5AM, Schefter "broke" the story that Bills hired Marrone. Now, why would Schefter get the story first? Did Bills & Marrone negotiate all night and did Schefter camp outside the clandestine meetings between the two parties? Did anyone ask or report on how & why the NFL insider got the scoop? Or should we take jw's hints to their logical conclusion? Who is Schefter's agent? Who is Marrone's agent? Which agency has the largest number of clients overlapping athletes, coaches and talking heads? It's a Creative Answer Apparently ... So while I was ok with Marrone's hire, it was a bit unusual to see the an avalanche of adulating press coming out of the woodwork for a relatively obscure hire. But if you looked at the sources of the adulation, it's easy to spot a well-crafted PR message by one of the best agencies in the business. So take what you read with a massive grain of salt. By extension, you should also discount 90% of the sports "news" you hear on ESPN. I recall a few years ago when Len Pasquarelli would write articles playing up his friend Tom Donahoe. There is a relationship between all of these NFL insiders and the teams they cover and while I'm not alleging the local media is complicit here, sports reporting isn't exactly what it used to be. I'm not crazy about the hire of all these SU guys into the pro level. Gailey couldn't build a quality staff either, gathering guys from his many stops in the college ranks. At the same time, I don't see the Bills getting a new 3 year window like Gailey, Nix, and company received in early 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 While I like the coaches more then you do I guess I agree......its a win now thing. None of these 3 year "and then what" plans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimp 2 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Hope I'm wrong, but it's a bit hard to get excited for a guy who turned a bad college program into a mediocre one..... +1 I'm with you on this one...the notion of a refreshing approach is good but the same cast of characters are in the lab. I like most wish for the best for this staff but all the optimism to me seems to be shiny bubbles...OBD has always had an heir of arrogance in their approach to doing things. My issue and to paraphrase Chan in his last press conference- he know's there better but doesn't have any proof to show you...seems to some up the whole organizational approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Angel Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 All coaches are horrible without a decent starting QB....this team could have very well won 9 games if we had one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 - A lot of people are calling Morrone more of the same.....it really isnt....it really isnt CLOSE to being the same. - How can you be so sure John? Ralph, as a rule, hired long time cronies. He hired Marv when he was more than 80 years old to be the GM, Remember? This led to Jauron, and losing football games. Nix was more of the same. Brandon and Marrone are both from Syracuse, and serve on some sort of committee together. Who do you think hired Marrone? Whaley? Nix? Call me a skeptic, cynic, etc. You would be correct. But I cannot see good news for this football team. We needed a QB and a coach, and there were and are slim pickings at both slots. Giving up isn't an option, so once again we cling to hope that Marrone knows what he is doing, and that we don't, once agan, screw up the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I still don't see how this move is just a marketing ploy to include Syracuse as a potential target for TV and revenue money. We just ravaged the best coaching staff they had in decades, I doubt a non Bills fan syracusan would be thrilled to tune the Bills every Sunday to follow the guy that didn't want them no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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