my skepticism

[Ronin]

You really believe that this hire was nothing more than a marketing ploy? From my view, I see Marrone as a hard working coach, who has paid his dues and turned an absolutely horrible situation in Syracuse into a very respectable program. He has NFL experience. He has a solid repuation and has actually played the game too. Who would have been a better hire? Lovie Smith, who was fired because his offenses in Chicago have absolutley stunk? Maybe they just hired the guy who was most impressive. Maybe they hired the guy who was not a retread, who was not fired, who seems ready to take the next step in a promising career. How extensive a search should the Bills have made? When they found the right man, should they have said, 'we'll get back to you" so that they couldn't be accused as not being extensive enough in their search? Take the chance that some other team would scoop him up? it woud be stupid to find the guy who you think is right, to then wastes time on a fruitless search just for the sake of appearances.Time will tell if this was a good hire or not. I for one am giving them the benefit of doubt based on Marrome's resume.

 

No offense, but you sound like you work for the front office.

 

Again, no offense, but it's your kind of support, generally speaking, and in not being able to assess things better than the media does because they have to be supportive in a large way, that helps keep perpetuating this charade.

 

Check this article out if you haven't already.

 

http://auburnpub.com/columnists/shawn_bissetta/marrone-is-another-example-that-timing-is-everything/article_b0c7e6cd-545e-5e90-8d9a-6b8c7d596681.html

 

It's the best brief piece I've read yet and he addresses your core point(s). I've agreed with that piece before he wrote it.

 

I too question to what extent things were "turned around" at SU given that two seasons ago he was 8-5 also before having gone 6-7. This season he would have been w/o Nassib. You really think he would have improved there? I don't.

 

As they say, caveat emptor.

 

Go ahead and give him the benefit of the doubt. The odds are so stacked against his success given the staff that he's assembled that it'll be half a miracle if he produces a winning team here in Buffalo. Think otherwise if you will, but when neither of your coordinators has called plays for even a season, well, IMO that speaks volumes.

 

He has his work cut out for him and this ain't the NCAA with its "everyone's a winner" cheap bowl games. It also ain't the Big East football conference.

[Ronin]

Not to be koolaid drinkers, but simply because it doesn't do any good to just B word about something between the hire and a year or even a couple years later when a decent verdict can be postulated.

 

That's debatable. Very debatable.

 

I think the message that needs to be sent is one of we're tired of seeing nonsense decision-making at OBD.

 

At this point the only way to accomplish that is via empty seats, including early in the season.

 

At that point the team will be left scrambling in attempts to figure out what's wrong, and while they still may not correct it, and likely wouldn't since the fox is guarding the hen house these days, at least the message from fans fully validated in their frustrations and dissatisfaction will be painfully and brutally clear to them whether they like it or not.

 

The hard truth and consequences is the only thing that the top of this team is going to react to apparently. Not doing that necessarily says "yes" by "not saying no."

 

Make sense?

 

Otherwise, shouldn't the onus be on the team to first prove to us fans that they've gotten something right.

 

I mean who has really enjoyed going to games over the last bunch of years? All I hear is pissing and moaning after most games, and justifiably so. Why pay money and waste one's time to get what will be obvious frustration.

 

To me being a fan also entails supporting competence and not supporting incompetence, particularly when that incompetence is pervasive and repetitive.

Edited January 22, 2013 by TaskersGhost

[Doc]

No offense, but you sound like you work for the front office.

 

Again, no offense, but it's your kind of support, generally speaking, and in not being able to assess things better than the media does because they have to be supportive in a large way, that helps keep perpetuating this charade.

 

Check this article out if you haven't already.

 

http://auburnpub.com...8c7d596681.html

 

It's the best brief piece I've read yet and he addresses your core point(s). I've agreed with that piece before he wrote it.

 

I too question to what extent things were "turned around" at SU given that two seasons ago he was 8-5 also before having gone 6-7. This season he would have been w/o Nassib. You really think he would have improved there? I don't.

 

As they say, caveat emptor.

 

Go ahead and give him the benefit of the doubt. The odds are so stacked against his success given the staff that he's assembled that it'll be half a miracle if he produces a winning team here in Buffalo. Think otherwise if you will, but when neither of your coordinators has called plays for even a season, well, IMO that speaks volumes.

 

He has his work cut out for him and this ain't the NCAA with its "everyone's a winner" cheap bowl games. It also ain't the Big East football conference.

Jim Harbaugh was 17-20 prior to his last season, and went 12-1 to finish 29-21, thanks to arguably the greatest QB prospect in history. Point being, no one knows how Marrone will do until he gets a chance to coach the Bills.

[Lurker]

One would think initially after the hire Marrone and his new staff especially Hackett and Pettine would be available to discuss what their vision for the Bills Future is.

I suspect we'll get that soon, now that the coaching staff is in place (perhaps during SB week). IMO, there was absolutely no need to do it any sooner, while the staff was being assembled.

 

Any bellyaching by the media about controlled "access" is just flatulance in the wind....

[Coach Tuesday]

What would Brandon's motivation be for conducting a shallow coaching search and hiring an incompetent colleague of his?

 

Can someone please posit an answer to this question?

 

At most, it buys Brandon one more offseason of season ticket sales and hype. That's it. If they fall flat on their faces when the games start, Brandon's Bills' career is toast.

 

So perhaps he's trying to parlay one more good offseason into a better job somewhere else?

 

Count me as a skeptic of that theory.

[first_and_ten]

No offense, but you sound like you work for the front office.

 

Again, no offense, but it's your kind of support, generally speaking, and in not being able to assess things better than the media does because they have to be supportive in a large way, that helps keep perpetuating this charade.

 

Check this article out if you haven't already.

 

http://auburnpub.com...8c7d596681.html

 

It's the best brief piece I've read yet and he addresses your core point(s). I've agreed with that piece before he wrote it.

 

I too question to what extent things were "turned around" at SU given that two seasons ago he was 8-5 also before having gone 6-7. This season he would have been w/o Nassib. You really think he would have improved there? I don't.

 

As they say, caveat emptor.

 

Go ahead and give him the benefit of the doubt. The odds are so stacked against his success given the staff that he's assembled that it'll be half a miracle if he produces a winning team here in Buffalo. Think otherwise if you will, but when neither of your coordinators has called plays for even a season, well, IMO that speaks volumes.

 

He has his work cut out for him and this ain't the NCAA with its "everyone's a winner" cheap bowl games. It also ain't the Big East football conference.

 

I did see that article, and while he makes some good points, it smacks of a bitter SU alumni who is upset that Marrone is leaving. And of course he has his work cut out for him. Is there a hire that wouldn't have had his work cut out for him with this organization? This guy seems to be biased in his opinion. He feels Marrone should have stayed and finished what he started.

[chris heff]

I could go back to Buster Ramsey and express an opinion on every hire since. The Bills have had three good coaches, Saban, Knox, Levy and only one ever won championships. Knox was really the only big name the Bills ever hired. The common denominator for all but three hires, Williams, Mularkey, and Marrone, is Ralph Wilson. Apparently the only coach that got along with Ralph was Levy. Saban quit twice and Wilson let Knox leave for Seattle.

 

When Ralph gave full controll to Tom Donahoe, Donahoe hired guys that were not on anybody's radar. After losing a power struggle in Pittsburg he was never going to lose power to a coach again. So the Bils get Williams and Mularkey, guys beholding to Donahoe.

 

Say what you will, be skeptical, be pessimistic, but this is not the same old same old. If the Bills kept to their MO it would be Whiisenhunt or Smith. I have no idea whether Marrone will be successful. I do know that this decision was made by a different team of people. I don't believe, and this is conjecture on my part, that this was a Nix hire. I don't think Buddy knows that the play football in Central NY any more than he knows they play football in Nevada (thing about it).

 

I was intrigued by Chip Kelly but after his behavior I think he will be back coaching college on two years. I am encouraged by the hiring of Marrone because it is outside the box. I choose to be an optimist in this and in all things, I find pessimism to be a waste of time. Go Bills

[Lurker]

I did see that article, and while he makes some good points, it smacks of a bitter SU alumni who is upset that Marrone is leaving. And of course he has his work cut out for him. Is there a hire that wouldn't have had his work cut out for him with this organization? This guy seems to be biased in his opinion. He feels Marrone should have stayed and finished what he started.

 

That's not an "article"...its essentially a letter to the editor by the principal at Dana L. West Jr.-Sr. High in Port Byron (scroll down to the bottom to see for yourself).

 

Why it was linked to the front page of TBD is a mystery to me....

Edited January 22, 2013 by Lurker

[John from Riverside]

I would like to know how the deck is stacked against him now that he actually has a DC that knows what he is doing....

 

Look guys.....people are bitching about the staff hires

 

- He DC hire looks like a slam dunk

- His hires on the offensive side of the ball look like guys he already had a familiarity and system with.....for better or worse I do understand it.

 

Even if we take a step back on offense......we should probably take several steps forward on defense. The talent is mostly THERE on defense guys

 

What would Brandon's motivation be for conducting a shallow coaching search and hiring an incompetent colleague of his?

 

Can someone please posit an answer to this question?

 

At most, it buys Brandon one more offseason of season ticket sales and hype. That's it. If they fall flat on their faces when the games start, Brandon's Bills' career is toast.

 

So perhaps he's trying to parlay one more good offseason into a better job somewhere else?

 

Count me as a skeptic of that theory.

 

 

Yes that makes absolutely no sense at all. Russ is a regional guy....this is his dream job. He isnt going to want to screw it up. Hiring a coach for its "promotional" value does not make sense

[BillnutinHouston]

Apparently the only coach that got along with Ralph was Levy.

 

Yes, Marv was the Neville Chamberlain of Bills coaches.

[chris heff]

 

 

Yes, Marv was the Neville Chamberlain of Bills coaches.

 

Correct a policy of appeasement, and he's my favorite Neville Brother.

[Lurker]

More piss in the (press) pool...

 

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/press-coverage/2013/01/bills-coaching-search-revisited-enough-stones-overturned.html

[Coach Tuesday]

Well, at least it has now been reported. Kudos to Graham, and for Wawrow perhaps for bringing it to Graham's radar screen.

[Erik]

This is kind of weird. It's almost like the Buffalo media is trying to accuse the Bills of something and they are not exactly sure what? What is it exactly the Bills are guilty of? They were duped into thinking Doug Marrone was a good coach and he's really not so they are trying to convince everyone of it now? They are lying about people praising him because Parcells doesn't know him? Didn't they have quotes from guys like Herman Edwards and Sean Payton all over the web site after he was hired? I guess I just fail to see the relevant information in JW's post or TG's blog. Weird since two different high-profile media types are basically reporting the exact same thing. What exactly I am not too sure of.

[Lurker]

What exactly I am not too sure of.

"It's hard to win in the NFL..."

[Kelly the Dog]

More piss in the (press) pool...

 

http://blogs.buffalo...overturned.html

To take anyone at their word, literally, for "leaving no stone unturned" is somewhat foolish to begin with. Interviewing five guys, all of whom had well established credentials and legitimacy may not be an exhaustive search, but it's a very decent sampling. Just because other teams interviewed a bunch more guys and took longer, and then hired uninspiring choices (at least IMO outside of Chip Kelly) isn't a real cause for serious criticism, at least in my book. No credit seems to be given to the Bills for hiring Mike Pettine, which was a direct result of them hiring Marrone early. And Pettine would seem to be the best candidate out there for the DC position, with the possible exception of Lovie or Horton. I didn't see any candidate with more teams "allegedly" interested in a coach than Doug Marrone, who had four and maybe five of the eight. That could easily and rightfully made the team amp up their timetable and tone down their exhaustive search, for good reason, and without need to apologize or be taken to task for it.

 

FWIW, I'm glad jw and tim graham are looking as deep into the inner workings of the club and reporting on it as much as they have been. Myself, I think the team was full of crap when they said it was everybody's choice. I just think the team did a fair search and made a quick choice for a good reason, not a rush to judgment or hoodwinking of the public.

[Coach Tuesday]

This is kind of weird. It's almost like the Buffalo media is trying to accuse the Bills of something and they are not exactly sure what? What is it exactly the Bills are guilty of? They were duped into thinking Doug Marrone was a good coach and he's really not so they are trying to convince everyone of it now? They are lying about people praising him because Parcells doesn't know him? Didn't they have quotes from guys like Herman Edwards and Sean Payton all over the web site after he was hired? I guess I just fail to see the relevant information in JW's post or TG's blog. Weird since two different high-profile media types are basically reporting the exact same thing. What exactly I am not too sure of.

 

They are accusing the Bills of misleading their fans about the scope of their search and then using a tightly-controlled marketing strategy to justify the hire. And/or getting played by Marrone's agent in the process.

 

I still don't get what Brandon stands to gain from something like this. Or whether all of those supportive comments from Syracuse players and writers and Marrone's former Jets and Saints players and colleagues were somehow part of the ruse. So part of this to me sounds like a bunch of local writers feeling shut out from the inner circle and lashing out in return. But again, I much prefer a real article to vague insinuations.

 

Guess we'll know in September if there is fire behind this smoke...

Edited January 23, 2013 by Coach Tuesday

[GG]

Well, at least it has now been reported. Kudos to Graham, and for Wawrow perhaps for bringing it to Graham's radar screen.

 

Somehow I have a feeling it was a well discussed topic at the watering holes.

 

Imagine that, all the parties who gave glowing reports on Marrone have the same agent. I'm shocked I tell you, shocked.

[Punch]

What it boils down to is that one reporter--- Tim Graham--- is accusing another reporter--- Adam Schefter--- of lacking journalistic integrity.

 

Do I have that right?

[Sisyphean Bills]

But the marketing of the Bills' hiring process has been disingenuous. Anyone who actually believes the Bills left no stone unturned in their coaching search must be living under a rock.

[GG]

What it boils down to is that one reporter--- Tim Graham--- is accusing another reporter--- Adam Schefter--- of lacking journalistic integrity.

 

Do I have that right?

 

Ever wonder how Schefter "broke" the story of Bills hiring Marrone at 5AM?

[Kelly the Dog]

Somehow I have a feeling it was a well discussed topic at the watering holes.

 

Imagine that, all the parties who gave glowing reports on Marrone have the same agent. I'm shocked I tell you, shocked.

There were all kinds of other guys without the same agent who gave glowing reports of Marrone. Sean Payton, Herm Edwards, Mickey Loomis, Brandon Moore, Jason Witten, Jon Stinchcomb, Jon Gruden (perhaps some of these have the same agent I am not sure, but there were glowing reviews everywhere. I didn't hear a bad thing about him in fact, from anyone who knew him and worked with or played for him.

[Punch]

Ever wonder how Schefter "broke" the story of Bills hiring Marrone at 5AM?

 

It certainly goes a long way in explaining it.

 

By pushing the narrative that Schefter was complicit in espousing how great of a hire Marrone is kind of goes too far towards an actual accusation that he was "bought off" in some way--- perhaps with the reward of the "scoop".

[GG]

There were all kinds of other guys without the same agent who gave glowing reports of Marrone. Sean Payton, Herm Edwards, Mickey Loomis, Brandon Moore, Jason Witten, Jon Stinchcomb, Jon Gruden (perhaps some of these have the same agent I am not sure, but there were glowing reviews everywhere. I didn't hear a bad thing about him in fact, from anyone who knew him and worked with or played for him.

 

It would be very odd for someone in the industry to bash Marrone when he got the job. I think that jw's and Graham's beef (and I imagine the rest of the Bills local reporters) is that the glowing reports were orchestrated and fished out by Bills and the agent's PR machine, and not so much by people jumping up and down on their own to say "What an awesome hire!"

Edited January 23, 2013 by GG

[Kelly the Dog]

It would be very odd for someone in the industry to bash Marrone when he got the job. I think that jw's and Graham's beef (and I imagine the rest of the Bills local reporters) is that the glowing reports were orchestrated and fished out by Bills and the agent's PR machine, and not so much by people jumping up and down on their own to say "What an awesome hire!"

While that is true, the reports were universally glowing and came from everywhere he has been, as far back as Jason Witten when Marrone was his TE coach at Tennessee. Players, coaches, head coaches, pundits, executives, everyone. Everyone around Syracuse seemed to love him. Pettine obviously liked him. It's much easier to imagine that the reports are legitimate than fabricated or embellished or "marketed".

 

Now, do I believe anything that comes out of Russ Brandon's mouth? No.

[Doc]

Hiring the Jets' defensive coaches allayed my fears about Marrone. And since he was a former OC (regardless of whether Payton called all the plays), and that Nathaniel Hackett is the son of Paul Hackett and daddy might be the Bills' QB coach, I'm less concerned there as well. What they need now are the players.

[thewildrabbit]

No offense, but you sound like you work for the front office.

 

Again, no offense, but it's your kind of support, generally speaking, and in not being able to assess things better than the media does because they have to be supportive in a large way, that helps keep perpetuating this charade.

 

Check this article out if you haven't already.

 

http://auburnpub.com...8c7d596681.html

 

It's the best brief piece I've read yet and he addresses your core point(s). I've agreed with that piece before he wrote it.

 

I too question to what extent things were "turned around" at SU given that two seasons ago he was 8-5 also before having gone 6-7. This season he would have been w/o Nassib. You really think he would have improved there? I don't.

 

As they say, caveat emptor.

 

Go ahead and give him the benefit of the doubt. The odds are so stacked against his success given the staff that he's assembled that it'll be half a miracle if he produces a winning team here in Buffalo. Think otherwise if you will, but when neither of your coordinators has called plays for even a season, well, IMO that speaks volumes.

 

He has his work cut out for him and this ain't the NCAA with its "everyone's a winner" cheap bowl games. It also ain't the Big East football conference.

I will give him the benefit of the doubt

 

... Marrone hasn't made any moronic player moves yet, no Cornell Green at RT. Announcing the starting QB, giving him all the reps in pre season and then cutting after two games. Both those two moves alone helped cause an 0-8 start in 2010. Announcing the starting RB in 2010 for opening day only to bench him after 4 plays because he didn't know how to do his job on the field.

 

,,,hasn't tried to force a broken QB to try an win games while almost ignoring perhaps the most gifted RB in the league most of the season.

 

....hasn't tried to run 5 WR empty backfield sets with only one decent WR. Smoke and mirrors stopped working midway thru the 2011 season. but that didn't stop anyone from calling the same plays over and over.

 

....hasn't hired the two worst DC's this franchise has ever seen. Both set franchise records for being bad. The latter set both franchise and NFL records for being bad with a 100 million dollar DE!!

 

Gailey was a clustermess from the start. As bad as Fitz was, Gailey was lucky to have him, otherwise the Bills win maybe 2 games each year.

 

The Bills hired a man who has had some success in taking a bad program and turning it around. I'm more willing to give him 3 years then a guy who was fired from his last job with a lesser title.

[BillsVet]

There are enough information sources within the NFL to see that Brandon was not truthful about the hiring process. All of this would be moot if the Bills started winning and weren't so focused on rebutting criticism.

[Doc]

There are enough information sources within the NFL to see that Brandon was not truthful about the hiring process. All of this would be moot if the Bills started winning and weren't so focused on rebutting criticism.

LOL! They interview a bunch of guys and hire a guy with NFL OC'ing and college HC'ing experience, whose hiring is praised by several "experts," and the criticism comes out because they might not have been as "exhaustive" as they said they'd be. Nevermind that if they'd actually "left no stone unturned," they'd likely have lost-out on Pettine and his crew, and probably even Marrone himself.

 

But yes winning will be the true test. Not whining about statements interpreted concretely.

[eball]

There are enough information sources within the NFL to see that Brandon was not truthful about the hiring process. All of this would be moot if the Bills started winning and weren't so focused on rebutting criticism.

 

Umm, I think Brandon came right out and called the Bills "tarnished" and said it is "unacceptable." If that's your definition of "rebutting criticism" I'm at a loss.

 

I don't understand all the hub-bub about their hiring process. They interviewed at least five guys and got either their 1st or 2nd choice. People want to nitpick about whether that fits the definition of "no stone unturned" in a vacuum. It's ridiculous.

[Lurker]

Nevermind that if they'd actually "left no stone unturned," they'd likely have lost-out on Pettine and his crew, and probably even Marrone himself.

The Bills were fast out of the gate in starting the HC search and had one of the most aggressive interview schedules of any team looking to fill a vacancy.

 

IMO, Chip Kelly was likely their #1 target, but when he made it obvious he wanted major control (and was unlikely to go with a small market team), they moved on and Marrone, who they probably viewed as the next best candidate. I don't think they were going the retread route (Wiz, Lovie) and were really intent on charting a new course for the HC selection.

 

I actually like the fact they acted decisively on Marrone, rather than continuing to interview coordinators simply to be exhaustive.

 

If, after five interviews, they were convinced he was a guy who could turn the ship around, letting him slip through their fingers simply to keep "turning over stones" would have been an even more egregious mistake. Being flexible and adapative is an advantage I see with Brandon in charge, rather than stodgy and predictibale like Ralph would have been.

 

Then there's the past (bad) experience with Chan getting a late start on assembling a staff due to his late hire. I agree that Pettine is absolutely with the Bills due to the quick HC pick. And the coaching staff is that much further down the road in looking at how the Senior Bowl prospects might fit into what they'll be trying to do this year.

[CodeMonkey]

Umm, I think Brandon came right out and called the Bills "tarnished" and said it is "unacceptable." If that's your definition of "rebutting criticism" I'm at a loss.

 

I don't understand all the hub-bub about their hiring process. They interviewed at least five guys and got either their 1st or 2nd choice. People want to nitpick about whether that fits the definition of "no stone unturned" in a vacuum. It's ridiculous.

I tend to agree with you. But I believe Brandon opened up the can of worms with his "no stone unturned" comment.

Would have been better off keeping his mouth shut. But what marketing guy can do that?

[papazoid]

i'm a big fan of john wawrow.....but this post confuses me.....as it borders on professional suicide.....

 

in my own opinion of course, what sticks out to me in this whole thread is that it appears that with the changing of the guard from ralph to russ......that john wawrow has temporarily lost some of his "access" to the main power guy. john's valid but unanswered questions has led him to speak out publicly to some degree. while he has every right to say whatever is on his mind, my advice to him would be to bide his time.

[LynchMob23]

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/press-coverage/2013/01/doug-marrones-assistants-set-to-meet-the-media.html

Hopefully some of the media can get the questions they want answered from all staff now that they'll be available...

 

The Buffalo Bills will hold a pair of press conferences over the next two days to introduce some of new coach Doug Marrone's staff to the Western New York media.

[Kelly the Dog]

http://blogs.buffalo...-the-media.html

Hopefully some of the media can get the questions they want answered from all staff now that they'll be available...

The Bills are never going to say anything other than we had an exhaustive search, it became clear quickly that Marrone was our guy, we had several talks with him, everyone agreed he was our guy and we moved quickly and forcefully to secure him. Marrone has already come out and said publicly that every single one of his hires was the guy they wanted all along. I believe it with Pettine and (maybe) Hackett. Everyone else I am not so sure about, including his cronies from Syracuse he eventually signed like Wheatley. I could easily imagine Marrone, for example, calling Pete Carmichael and offering him the job of OC, but PC saying he would prefer to stay in New Orleans, or another RB coach that for whatever reason (it doesnt have to be bad), turned down the job. .

[LynchMob23]

The Bills are never going to say anything other than we had an exhaustive search, it became clear quickly that Marrone was our guy, we had several talks with him, everyone agreed he was our guy and we moved quickly and forcefully to secure him. Marrone has already come out and said publicly that every single one of his hires was the guy they wanted all along. I believe it with Pettine and (maybe) Hackett. Everyone else I am not so sure about, including his cronies from Syracuse he eventually signed like Wheatley. I could easily imagine Marrone, for example, calling Pete Carmichael and offering him the job of OC, but PC saying he would prefer to stay in New Orleans, or another RB coach that for whatever reason (it doesnt have to be bad), turned down the job. .

That I get Kelly. I'm hoping this takes the edge off some of the feelings of the media re: the cloak of invisibility at OBD. Will it in truth? I doubt it.