Jason Cole rips Wanny on Howard Simon show

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Says Dave is one of the worst coaches he has ever seen, very unimaginative, very uninspiring, no ability to motivate players, goes on to tell stories of his ineptitude. (5 min mark)

 

 

http://audio.wgr550.com/a/65461225/10-29-jason-cole-shares-his-thoughts-on-bill-polian-mario-williams-and-where-the-bills-stand-as-of-now.htm

 

 

 

{side note: says Tannehill is the real deal}

[Big Turk]

Yeah...heard it as well...said his schemes are completely unimaginitive and he gets outcoached consistantly...said Wanny and Norv Turner have made more money off their association with Jimmy Johnson than two people should ever make...

 

Said in Dallas, Johnson would come in and go crazy on the defensive players and Wanny would tell them "don't worry about him, he's just crazy, we will get better next game". Johnson was bad cop, wanny was good cop...well in Buffalo both Gailey and Wanny are good cops so that dynamic isn't working too good...

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Says Dave is one of the worst coaches he has ever seen, very unimaginative, very uninspiring, no ability to motivate players, goes on to tell stories of his ineptitude. (5 min mark)

 

 

http://audio.wgr550....d-as-of-now.htm

 

 

 

{side note: says Tannehill is the real deal}

 

Wow, great find. Thanks for posting.

 

As for the message, too true I feel. Seems like Chan's real weakness is inability to choose/attract quality staff who can run the ship with his hands-off attitude.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Hopeful

[Booger]

somewhat explains all the letdown seasons at PITT. Always great classes, but way under preformed.

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

I only head part of that segment on wgr....but wow was it damning of how bad wanny is.

[eball]

I just don't get this -- at all. I don't know anything about Jason Cole, much as I really don't know anything about Dave Wannstedt. It's simply hard for me to believe the picture being painted.

 

I'm also of the mindset that professional athletes don't (or shouldn't) need a "motivational" coach to get amped up to play. That's supposed to be built into the character of the type of guys you want on your team.

 

Anyway -- if things don't change with the product on the field, it will all be moot...

[CSBill]

 

I'm also of the mindset that professional athletes don't (or shouldn't) need a "motivational" coach to get amped up to play.

 

 

Totally agree, the "motivation" factor is way over-rated in the NFL .... however, the "unimaginative" and bland scheming, and being "out-coached"; is the Pope Catholic? That is so obvious its not funny anymore to all of us---just get rid of him now, and then at least it is fully on the players (which leads back to the motivation issue).

[DaGimp]

Just listen to the guy speak...i don't think he could scheme a layout for Battleship let alone an NFL Defense.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I don't buy that Wanny doesn't motivate. You can't recruit the players he recruited at Pitt without inspiring the players.

 

His problem seems to be that he is not a good tactician. He can get talent, but he doesn't know how to use it.

[abbottroadwarrior]

I don't buy that Wanny doesn't motivate. You can't recruit the players he recruited at Pitt without inspiring the players.

 

His problem seems to be that he is not a good tactician. He can get talent, but he doesn't know how to use it.

 

It makes me think the game has passed him by. But then I wonder if the defense he's rolling out now ever would have been effective against NFL offenses.

[C.Biscuit97]

somewhat explains all the letdown seasons at PITT. Always great classes, but way under preformed.

 

See, I don't get this. Pitt went to a BCS bowl under Wanny and has sucked pretty much when he wasn't there. He also has a very good resume of having top 10 defenses. And for as much crap as gets in Miami, he is their best coach since Shula and rode Jay Fiedler to the playoffs several times.

 

That said, while I still mostly blame the players, the Wanny talk is opening my eyes. He hasn't coached in the NFL since 2004 and the game has changed a lot. And as much as blame the players for underperforming, it would be nice to see some creativity. Wanny may be too old school and stubborn. IMO, this is his last stand. Still, I put this on the players 60-40.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Couldn't remember how to put them back in the trash can...

[Just in Atlanta]

Depressing. Didn't think my view on Wanny could sink any lower. Chan definitely needs a bad cop foil.

 

Hates the blitz. Poor play calling in the second half.

 

And now, according to the reporter, unimaginative, not inspirational, ineffectual, bad teller of stories and a poor user of props.

 

Wonder what his bright spots are.

[ColdBlueNorth]

I for one have to admit that I only looked at the win/loss record of Wanny, not his supporting cast.

 

Would go a long way to explain the uninspired play, and to answer another poster's question about professionals motivating themselves... it is human nature to need motivation and most studies show that money is not the biggest motivator for most adults in choosing a career. Although if someone is without it long enough it certainly becomes a bigger motivator.

 

That being said, I would wager that the performance of most professional athletes actually tails off more after securing a lucrative contract. I don't have anything to support that other than my memory of just about every player that held out for big contracts.

 

Professional athletes, more so than those who occasionally play for the love of a game, are probably in more dire need of coaches who can find new and unique ways to motivate them than most folks who are paid to do a job. Just like anyone else, pro athletes can go through the motions, say the right things, and collect a check. Heck, there are probably more than a few of us that do that at our own workplace. With the new CBA they don't even have to hang out together that much during the week with the severe restrictions on practice schedules.

 

Leaders that can consistently inspire those they lead, and can instill in them a sense of unity&motivation towards a goal are rare. That is why I still believe that the talent level on NFL teams is relatively close, but how that talent is motivated and prepared (coaching) is the difference between a cellar-dweller defense and an upper-eschelon one.

 

I don't want to just harp on Wanny not being on the sideline during games, but can someone name one successful defense coordinator who is not on the sideline during games? Defense is about attitude, and about pumping up your players and showing them that you are as emotionally vested and "into" the game as you want them to be....I have a hard time believing that those things can happen from the sterile confines of a sky booth.

[apuszczalowski]

I just don't get this -- at all. I don't know anything about Jason Cole, much as I really don't know anything about Dave Wannstedt. It's simply hard for me to believe the picture being painted.

 

I'm also of the mindset that professional athletes don't (or shouldn't) need a "motivational" coach to get amped up to play. That's supposed to be built into the character of the type of guys you want on your team.

 

Anyway -- if things don't change with the product on the field, it will all be moot...

That may have been true 15-20 years ago, but todays athletes are different, very few of them are playing for the love of the game anymore. They are playing for the paycheck and fame. They have been groomed throughout their lives that they are special and superstars, and the best of where they came from, probably not needing to try much to be the best player on their team. Then when they get to the pros, and they are given the huge paycheck, they feel they can still just ride their talent to the next paycheck.

 

The players today want to be "entertainers" more then "athletes"

 

I just think its funny how quickly the tide has turned on Wanny. last year here he was going to be the saviour because of his past resume of building a defence, now he is being thought of as worse the George Edwards.

Edited October 30, 2012 by apuszczalowski

[playman]

see below

[TC in St. Louis]

I think the most disappointing unit in the NFL this year has to be the defensive line of the Bills. All summer long I was under the impression that having Mario on one end, the two awesome DTs in the middle and Anderson on the other end....I thought we would dominate. They have not dominated. They have been atrocious. On a scale of 1-10, my expectations were 9 or 10. Instead, they have played like a 1 or 2.

 

And I think it's a combination of attitude and schemes. They just get blown out, or they are out of position at least 10 times a game. They'll stop the run a few times, and then allow a 40 yard run to a guy we've never heard of, or an 85 yard td to a guy who has not scored since last year.

 

Hopefully Mario's wrist has healed, and the week off has given these guys some time to soul-search and get their heads out of their butts. Chris Kelsay's words might light a fire.

 

My expectations now are that we will play better.

[cantankerous]

Depressing. Didn't think my view on Wanny could sink any lower. Chan definitely needs a bad cop foil.

 

Hates the blitz. Poor play calling in the second half.

 

And now, according to the reporter, unimaginative, not inspirational, ineffectual, bad teller of stories and a poor user of props.

 

Wonder what his bright spots are.

 

He's Chan's friend.

[8-8 Forever?]

I just don't get this -- at all. I don't know anything about Jason Cole, much as I really don't know anything about Dave Wannstedt. It's simply hard for me to believe the picture being painted.

 

I'm also of the mindset that professional athletes don't (or shouldn't) need a "motivational" coach to get amped up to play. That's supposed to be built into the character of the type of guys you want on your team.

 

Anyway -- if things don't change with the product on the field, it will all be moot...

Agreed. This is not college. This is a players league. Not a coaches league. We need a leader on the field. Just don't have one yet. All of the d players are individuals. Mario, into himself, Dareus, too young, Kyle, playing his own game, Kelsey just trying to out motor everyone. Sheppard too young. Barnett should be but is not. Moats? No. Byrd should be but is not. Wilson .. not enough cred to tell others what to do. Corners just tying to stay alive. that is the problem. no ray lewis type out their like Spikes, Conlon, Smith before them. Just not there. That is what I see. With the new CBA, the coaches cannot punish the players much and with guaranteed money, it takes a special group to actually go out there and lay it all on the field. Don't see it in this bunch. they are very clinical. Not very emotional. Need both.

[benderbender]

My expectations now are that we will play better.

I just hope they're aware that a stunning win over Houston would keep them employed longer

[8-8 Forever?]

He's Chan's friend.

Who else would come to f ing buffalo? Chan was in a bad spot (Jauron had great assistants but they all get fired when the HC goes down) and asked a friend to help him out. Things could be worse. We could have last years defensive players (all sucked) and a DC who isnt even in the league anymore.

[CodeMonkey]

Professional athletes, more so than those who occasionally play for the love of a game, are probably in more dire need of coaches who can find new and unique ways to motivate them than most folks who are paid to do a job. Just like anyone else, pro athletes can go through the motions, say the right things, and collect a check. Heck, there are probably more than a few of us that do that at our own workplace. With the new CBA they don't even have to hang out together that much during the week with the severe restrictions on practice schedules.

 

Leaders that can consistently inspire those they lead, and can instill in them a sense of unity&motivation towards a goal are rare. That is why I still believe that the talent level on NFL teams is relatively close, but how that talent is motivated and prepared (coaching) is the difference between a cellar-dweller defense and an upper-eschelon one.

I do not get this mindset at all. They need to be motivated by coaches?

How about winning. How about not being a laughing stock. How about pride in your performance. How about making the playoffs. How about a !@#$ing super bowl ring for Christs sake!

NFL players needing to be motivated by their coaches is perhaps the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard about professional athletes.

[BuffaloBaumer]

I do not get this mindset at all. They need to be motivated by coaches?

How about winning. How about not being a laughing stock. How about pride in your performance. How about making the playoffs. How about a !@#$ing super bowl ring for Christs sake!

NFL players needing to be motivated by their coaches is perhaps the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard about professional athletes.

 

here is where the problem lies. The Bills CLEARLY have players that DO need to be motivated for whatever reason. You have management that One, are not drafting the proper guys to get it done on heart alone and TWO, don't have the coaches to "coach them up" now that they are here.

[CodeMonkey]

here is where the problem lies. The Bills CLEARLY have players that DO need to be motivated for whatever reason. You have management that One, are not drafting the proper guys to get it done on heart alone and TWO, don't have the coaches to "coach them up" now that they are here.

Or the DC is horrible, or the scheme is horrible, or the players are just not as talented as was thought. There are many possible reasons for why the defense sucks in such an epic scale. I personally just don't buy motivation being the main problem.

[PromoTheRobot]

And yet most folks here wanted a name coach like Wanstadt to replace Edwards. I mean we all heard if Wanny.

 

PTR

[abbottroadwarrior]

And yet most folks here wanted a name coach like Wanstadt to replace Edwards. I mean we all heard if Wanny.

 

PTR

 

I will readily admit to being one of them. No question about it. I thought he'd lend some experience and creativity to a defense that, under Edwards, seemed uninspired and underachieving. It doesn't make me reconsider my opinion of Edwards as inadequate, but I certainly have loss faith in Wannstadt to field a competitive defense at this point.

[Direhard Fan]

10 1/2 point underdog sunday. 3 and 5 than. NE than- worse. 3 and 6 than. All we hear is we are not filling the gaps. If that is the only problem than fill them. Time for a change. Wannie can't fill the gaps let someone else try. We have no leader on "D". Try it - You'll like it.

[Lofton80]

Article illustrates the lack of blitzing by Wanny's D.

 

The following excerpts from an article on new Packers' coordinator Jim Bates offer valuable insights into Wannstedt's defensive philosophy since Bates worked for both Wannstedt and Johnson:

^{The essence of Johnson's philosophy was speed, speed and more speed. He wanted waves of penetrating defensive linemen to fit a one-gap scheme and rotate constantly. He wanted fast linebackers regardless of size at linebacker. And he wanted smart defensive backs that wouldn't make mistakes in a "quarters" or Cover 2 coverage scheme. Those great Dallas front sevens were among the smallest in the NFL but they chased all over the field and gave great effort. Johnson's system started with a 4-3 "over" front in which the under, or three-technique, defensive tackle lined up to the tight-end side and all three linebackers were stacked off the ball.}

 

^{Cornerbacks Larry Brown and Issiac Holt lacked bump-and-run coverage ability in the early 1990s so Johnson had to play them off in "quarters" coverage. The Cowboys' safeties lined up at the same shallow depth of just eight to 10 yards, almost creating a nine-man front and positioning them to jump routes and make interceptions. When run showed, one safety would force and the other would rotate to the deep middle. "We never had corners in Dallas," Wannstedt said. "They weren't even close to Sam Madison and Patrick Surtain, who are as good as there is. Even in Chicago we were always on the conservative side with our corners only because of ability level."}

 

^{Generally speaking, the defenses that Bates was associated with over the last nine years were able to press with their cornerbacks within a "quarters" or Cover 2 zone coverage scheme. "You can't blitz without corners," Wannstedt said. "Everyone knows that. It's common sense. I don't know what Green Bay's situation is but I'm sure that will be one of the first things Jim will have to address. "Let's not make more of this than what it is. It depends on how good your players are that determines what you can do."}

 

^{Still, the objective is to limit blitzing to maybe 20%, stress third down and play smart. "Our mental mistakes were minimal," Wannstedt said. "That was always a focus. Our philosophy always was that we will execute our system better than your offense plays. People around the NFL always said that we did less than most teams but we'd always do it better."}

^{http://bluegraysky.blogspot.com/2005/07/know-thine-enemy-dave-wannstedt.html}

[HOUSE]

Well, between Dareus playing poorly and Williams injury, add a poor defensive motivator I guess its easy to see why the Bills struggle.

[Max997]

 

 

Totally agree, the "motivation" factor is way over-rated in the NFL .... however, the "unimaginative" and bland scheming, and being "out-coached"; is the Pope Catholic? That is so obvious its not funny anymore to all of us---just get rid of him now, and then at least it is fully on the players (which leads back to the motivation issue).

 

Really? Wasn't that Marv Levy's best trait? Don't you think the 9ers feed off Harbaugh and want to play for him?

 

Emotion is HUGE in sports and good coaches can get more out of their players

[3rdand12]

Article illustrates the lack of blitzing by Wanny's D.

 

The following excerpts from an article on new Packers' coordinator Jim Bates offer valuable insights into Wannstedt's defensive philosophy since Bates worked for both Wannstedt and Johnson:

 

^{The essence of Johnson's philosophy was speed, speed and more speed. He wanted waves of penetrating defensive linemen to fit a one-gap scheme and rotate constantly. He wanted fast linebackers regardless of size at linebacker. And he wanted smart defensive backs that wouldn't make mistakes in a "quarters" or Cover 2 coverage scheme. Those great Dallas front sevens were among the smallest in the NFL but they chased all over the field and gave great effort. Johnson's system started with a 4-3 "over" front in which the under, or three-technique, defensive tackle lined up to the tight-end side and all three linebackers were stacked off the ball.}

 

^{Cornerbacks Larry Brown and Issiac Holt lacked bump-and-run coverage ability in the early 1990s so Johnson had to play them off in "quarters" coverage. The Cowboys' safeties lined up at the same shallow depth of just eight to 10 yards, almost creating a nine-man front and positioning them to jump routes and make interceptions. When run showed, one safety would force and the other would rotate to the deep middle. "We never had corners in Dallas," Wannstedt said. "They weren't even close to Sam Madison and Patrick Surtain, who are as good as there is. Even in Chicago we were always on the conservative side with our corners only because of ability level."}

 

^{Generally speaking, the defenses that Bates was associated with over the last nine years were able to press with their cornerbacks within a "quarters" or Cover 2 zone coverage scheme. "You can't blitz without corners," Wannstedt said. "Everyone knows that. It's common sense. I don't know what Green Bay's situation is but I'm sure that will be one of the first things Jim will have to address. "Let's not make more of this than what it is. It depends on how good your players are that determines what you can do."}

 

^{Still, the objective is to limit blitzing to maybe 20%, stress third down and play smart. "Our mental mistakes were minimal," Wannstedt said. "That was always a focus. Our philosophy always was that we will execute our system better than your offense plays. People around the NFL always said that we did less than most teams but we'd always do it better."}

^{http://bluegraysky.b...-wannstedt.html}

 

interesting article. very. Thanks !

[Buffalo Barbarian]

somewhat explains all the letdown seasons at PITT. Always great classes, but way under preformed.

 

I've never liked Wanny outside of Dallas now we know why. I cringed when he came here but as usual my delusion for the Bills took over and bought the kool-aid and thought even though he under achieved he would somehow do it this time. Now I'm at a point were I look at Bills logically so that I'm not disappointed every time I turn around.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I don't want to just harp on Wanny not being on the sideline during games, but can someone name one successful defense coordinator who is not on the sideline during games? Defense is about attitude, and about pumping up your players and showing them that you are as emotionally vested and "into" the game as you want them to be....I have a hard time believing that those things can happen from the sterile confines of a sky booth.

 

Chan: Thanks for saving my job.

 

Kevin Greene : No problem, I will get these slackers to play with their hair on fire.

 

here is where the problem lies. The Bills CLEARLY have players that DO need to be motivated for whatever reason. You have management that One, are not drafting the proper guys to get it done on heart alone and TWO, don't have the coaches to "coach them up" now that they are here.

 

Time to start drafting those "high motor" guys

[Sisyphean Bills]

Agreed. This is not college. This is a players league. Not a coaches league. We need a leader on the field. Just don't have one yet. <snippage>

 

I can see that. The Saints don't miss Sean Payton at all, for example.

[Buffalo 66]

Couldn't remember how to put them back in the trash can...

That is freaking hilarious!

[BuffaloFan68]

I respect Andy Reid for having the stones to fire his DC during the bye week. I just wish Chan would have done the same thing. The worst part is that Chan probably won't even fire Wanny after we get blown-out 3+ more times.

[C.Biscuit97]

I respect Andy Reid for having the stones to fire his DC during the bye week. I just wish Chan would have done the same thing. The worst part is that Chan probably won't even fire Wanny after we get blown-out 3+ more times.

 

Andy Reid scapegoated his DC and their defense was worse this week. Gailey believes in Wanny liek he believes in Fitz. As a result, it might cost him his job. But he's loyal.

[eball]

I respect Andy Reid for having the stones to fire his DC during the bye week. I just wish Chan would have done the same thing. The worst part is that Chan probably won't even fire Wanny after we get blown-out 3+ more times.

 

How did you feel about Andy Reid's "stones" when he promoted a guy who had never coached defense to DC before the start of last season?

 

Andy Reid is another of those overblown coaches who receive way too much credit and not enough blame for what goes on. There is no excuse for the Eagles not making LeSean McCoy the focal point of that offense. None. It's a joke.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Andy Reid scapegoated his DC and their defense was worse this week. Gailey believes in Wanny liek he believes in Fitz. As a result, it might cost him his job. But he's loyal.

 

Is it loyalty to stick with your incompetent buddy no matter what rather than perhaps considering what's best for everyone else associated with the franchise?

[C.Biscuit97]

How did you feel about Andy Reid's "stones" when he promoted a guy who had never coached defense to DC before the start of last season?

 

Andy Reid is another of those overblown coaches who receive way too much credit and not enough blame for what goes on. There is no excuse for the Eagles not making LeSean McCoy the focal point of that offense. None. It's a joke.

 

 

Andy Reid would be the greatest OC in the NFL if that was all he had to do. He is a very good head coach but he makes costly decisions liek getting away from the run and clock management. Still, if he ever got fired, I'd hope the Bills would go after him. Eagles fans don't realize how good they had it.