James Cook: "Business" man

[Ya Digg?]

21 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I want them to resign Cook.  But he could be packaged with Epenesa and a second round pick to get Parsons, or they could package either Samuel or Coleman with Cook to get McLaurin.  I think Davis and Johnson could do an adequate job at RB.

You’re joking about your trade offer right? It’s important to me to know that you’re joking…Epenesa and a 2nd aren’t enticing in any trade, let alone for arguably the 3rd best pass rusher in the league 

[GunnerBill]

44 minutes ago, H2o said:

As long as we have Josh, the passing game will potentially be explosive at any point. It looks like Keon is ready to make a 2nd year jump. I like Elijah Moore's prospects much more than Samuel, and we still have Samuel to use as a Slot/gadget player. Palmer is a better option than was Hollins. I also think Shavers makes the 53 and is going to surprise people by contributing more than expected. Shakir will be ready to go by mid-September. We still have the ole Josh favorite in Knox, and hopefully Kincaid can get going. We know that Ty and Davis are both solid options out of the backfield. The only thing we don't have is a Diggs, and Josh showed that wasn't necessary last year. Cook or no Cook, Josh will throw for 4000 and get his 40+ TD's. 

 

Last year we really struggled to produce explosive pass plays in structure. And it wasn't for lack of calling them. We couldn't get deep separation and Josh and his receivers were not on the same page on some occasions as well. Josh will always make some explosives out of structure in scramble drill, broken play situations but if that is the ONLY way you are getting explosives from your offense I think that is a problem over the course of the season. Last season that was supplemented by a healthy dose of explosive run plays from Cook. 

 

You can feel better about the chances of getting in structure pass game explosives in 2025 than 2024, I'm not even telling you I disagree with you there... but until we see it then it's not proven. I want our explosives to come from the passing game. That is my preference. But one of those pass catchers needs to step up and prove they can make them at a reasonably regular clip of at least one every game or two before I'll believe it and, critically, before opposition teams will start playing to stop it which prevents them doing other things against us in the passing game - i.e. the Baltimore stack the middle philosophy or KC's overload blitzes.

 

43 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Woah now pilgrim. ( thank you btw... I have never got to use a John Wayne quote on here 😁 ).    Davis is not that bad.  Myself and others feel, given the reps, he is a starting NFL back.  

 

If Cook should hold out, it opens a door to find out, and sometimes that doesn't bode well for the player who isn't playing.  We see it in injuries mostly.  

 

You can feel that. I don't. And I pray we never have to find out. He doesn't have the vision or the explosiveness. 

[ScottishBills]

23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

You can feel that. I don't. And I pray we never have to find out. He doesn't have the vision or the explosiveness. 

 

Cook was nowhere near the player of last year in his first 2 seasons. Surely Davis could improve?

 

In any case Cook will be forced to play this year whatever happens, so the actual alternative is Davis in year 3 + a drafted speed back (for example) or an FA back next year.  Not sure it would be that far off what Cook provides in the aggregate. 

 

Good player for sure, great last year in fact, but there is some severe overrating going on with this guy. 

 

Or to put it another way the extra dollars on WR or Edge have the potential for a bigger talent upgrade than the seeming downgrade at RB

 

Agree with you in the pass game - need to see it to believe it. 

[H2o]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Last year we really struggled to produce explosive pass plays in structure. And it wasn't for lack of calling them. We couldn't get deep separation and Josh and his receivers were not on the same page on some occasions as well. Josh will always make some explosives out of structure in scramble drill, broken play situations but if that is the ONLY way you are getting explosives from your offense I think that is a problem over the course of the season. Last season that was supplemented by a healthy dose of explosive run plays from Cook. 

 

You can feel better about the chances of getting in structure pass game explosives in 2025 than 2024, I'm not even telling you I disagree with you there... but until we see it then it's not proven. I want our explosives to come from the passing game. That is my preference. But one of those pass catchers needs to step up and prove they can make them at a reasonably regular clip of at least one every game or two before I'll believe it and, critically, before opposition teams will start playing to stop it which prevents them doing other things against us in the passing game - i.e. the Baltimore stack the middle philosophy or KC's overload blitzes.

 

 

You can feel that. I don't. And I pray we never have to find out. He doesn't have the vision or the explosiveness. 

I get it. I, myself, do accept the fact that Cook is a valuable asset to this offense. I just truly believe that the sum of parts this year on offense are greater than that of last year, and last year Josh was the best version of Josh we have ever seen to date. He was less careless with the ball, took what the defense was giving him for the most part, and he was MVP. Even with a washed Cooper, Shakir, Hollins, Coleman, and a nonexistent Samuel he put up 3,700 yds and 28 TD's through the air. Does Cook affect that? Sure, but it's still the same collection of guys who were pretty much JAG's outside of Shakir running the routes and catching passes out there for him last year that he was successful with(I kind of give Coleman a pass because he was a rook and had the injury right when he was starting to come on). We'll see how it goes but I am still very optimistic about the offense, even if Cook is not part of it. 

[Wolfgang]

One thing is certain...

 

This is good drama for the Hard Knocks ratings...

 

Given the injury bug the team has been hit with so far...

 

I have no problem with Cook not practicing...

 

How many pre-season game snaps was he really going to get even with a contract?

 

I can easily see a deal getting done in the last TV episode of Hard Knocks...

 

Great ratings, then all is forgiven...

 

Go Bills!

[oldmanfan]

47 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

You’re joking about your trade offer right? It’s important to me to know that you’re joking…Epenesa and a 2nd aren’t enticing in any trade, let alone for arguably the 3rd best pass rusher in the league 

What would you suggest?

[EmotionallyUnstable]

I can understand everyone’s perspectives: pay him, don’t pay him, ride the storm and he’ll play, etc. 

 

The one thing I cannot fathom is how some people come off as personally offended by this situation lol 

[DapperCam]

49 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

You’re joking about your trade offer right? It’s important to me to know that you’re joking…Epenesa and a 2nd aren’t enticing in any trade, let alone for arguably the 3rd best pass rusher in the league 

Yea, that dude is out to lunch. It would take something more like Rousseau, a 1st and Cook. That would be largely a cap neutral deal and Jerry doesn’t want futures.

[Johnnycage46]

I see throughout the thread that folks are somewhat in the camp of Ray Davis being an adequate replacement for Cook if Cook were to be traded (or if he held out (which I don't think he will once the season starts). Honest question, what do people see in Ray Davis that makes them think he is starting NFL RB? He looked "ok" last year...had that one long receiving TD...but otherwise, he just seemed like another guy. 

 

Just curious what other people are seeing in Davis in place of Cook?

[Captain Hindsight]

20 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

I can understand everyone’s perspectives: pay him, don’t pay him, ride the storm and he’ll play, etc. 

 

The one thing I cannot fathom is how some people come off as personally offended by this situation lol 

What I found far more offensive was a billionaire asking me to drop 10k just for the rights to buy tickets in his new stadium

7 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

I see throughout the thread that folks are somewhat in the camp of Ray Davis being an adequate replacement for Cook if Cook were to be traded (or if he held out (which I don't think he will once the season starts). Honest question, what do people see in Ray Davis that makes them think he is starting NFL RB? He looked "ok" last year...had that one long receiving TD...but otherwise, he just seemed like another guy. 

 

Just curious what other people are seeing in Davis in place of Cook?

Sour grapes mostly 

[BuffaloBillyG]

15 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

I see throughout the thread that folks are somewhat in the camp of Ray Davis being an adequate replacement for Cook if Cook were to be traded (or if he held out (which I don't think he will once the season starts). Honest question, what do people see in Ray Davis that makes them think he is starting NFL RB? He looked "ok" last year...had that one long receiving TD...but otherwise, he just seemed like another guy. 

 

Just curious what other people are seeing in Davis in place of Cook?

I like Davis a lot. I think he's a good steady back that runs well and has some good receiving skills. 

 

To me a "starter" at RB is irrelevant. Whomever gets the first snap or first series can largely depend on formation and gameplan. I do see him being a guy that can handle the 45% workload that Cook had last year. 

 

I do think Davis is better served being part of a committee than a workhorse. Which is what the Bills seem to favor at the position. So could he "start"? Sure. But him with Ty Johnson still likely isn't enough for what the Bills want to do at RB unless he breaks out and shows a skill set he didn't have last year.

 

So if the Bills aren't planning on Cook being back next year I feel like they have to replace him either in the draft or FA (Breece Hall and Travis ETN are notable FAs next year) to pair with Davis and Ty.

Edited Tuesday at 01:44 PM by BuffaloBillyG

[nucci]

16 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

The culture that has been set for these athletes is so ridiculous, massive egos, it's disgusting...you're under contract,  I know he's there. but no other profession could you pull this bs, ball out 1 more years and go get your $ , this diva ***** - i can't stand it 

Hope he's traded immediately.  We roll with Ray and a trade candidate and Ty, besides that play vs KC, which was freaking amazing, extremely clutch this guy hasn't impressed me like a Saquon or Henry, not even close

Also, you don't think guys in the locker room are bothered? whether they support Cook or disagree, it just creates a terrible culture 

I don't think the players in the locker room are bothered. They support each other when it comes to contracts. The more money Cook gets helps other RBs later. 

10 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

What I found far more offensive was a billionaire asking me to drop 10k just for the rights to buy tickets in his new stadium

 

👍

[DrDawkinstein]

10 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

I’m not talking about what players say or think. 
I’m simply sayin* that itsNOT in their best interest for other players on their team to get max contracts. 
Unless they want to make less themselves.

Its just math. 

It’s a zero sum game. 

 

I see your logic, but the reason the players (and many of us) disagree and do not see it that way is due to 1. the ever increasing cap (which has been EXPLODING with streaming money) and 2. the owners needing to give a bigger cut of revenue.

 

The cap is set for a year, but then it goes up and there is new available money. So get every penny you can right now in your current negotiation, and there will be more for me when it's my turn in a year or two.

 

And while I doubt the NFLPA pulls it off, especially in its current weakened state, there is a ton of money to go after with every additional percentage point.

 

It's zero sum year to year, but not over the course of their career or contract.

[PromoTheRobot]

12 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

What I found far more offensive was a billionaire asking me to drop 10k just for the rights to buy tickets in his new stadium

 

You, and I, are chipping in a bit more for the cost of the stadium because we will be using it. And our combined share is around 5% of cost. The state and county are covering 38%. Terry and the NFL are paying the rest.

[GunnerBill]

48 minutes ago, ScottishBills said:

 

Cook was nowhere near the player of last year in his first 2 seasons. Surely Davis could improve?

 

In any case Cook will be forced to play this year whatever happens, so the actual alternative is Davis in year 3 + a drafted speed back (for example) or an FA back next year.  Not sure it would be that far off what Cook provides in the aggregate. 

 

Good player for sure, great last year in fact, but there is some severe overrating going on with this guy. 

 

Or to put it another way the extra dollars on WR or Edge have the potential for a bigger talent upgrade than the seeming downgrade at RB

 

Agree with you in the pass game - need to see it to believe it. 

 

Cook was excellent in 2023 too, just without the use in the redzone. Once they started giving him the ball down there instead of always defaulting to rushing Josh, Cook showed he could be really productive. His first year less so, but he sat behind Singletary a ton, waste of time that was. I just don't think Davis has the vision of Cook (in fairness not many do) and he doesn't have the explosion either. He can be a serviceable starter in the way Singletary was for a few years but it is in that lower end, baseline starter territory IMO.

 

I'm with you that I'd much prefer to spend my dollars and have my explosive production at my premium positions and if that takes being a bit worse at running back to achieve that, who cares? To do that is likely going to take trading assets as well though because those explosive contributors at premium spots don't hit FA very often (if at all) and the Bills passed on the chance to swing those trades this past spring. I will say again if they don't extend Cook this summer and one of the pass catchers shows themselves to be that explosive playmaker this year then you absolutely let Cook walk and take the comp pick. But even in a world where Cook plays out his deal if you don't get explosive pass game plays from structure at a better clip than 2024 then I think you have to think very carefully before letting the explosive rusher you have in Cook leave the building. 

 

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

16 hours ago, Tulsabillsfanz said:

Cook’s job right now is to be out there practicing with his teammates, helping the team get better.  So, sitting out practice when he’s healthy means he is NOT taking care of his “business”. 
 

Imagine if every player would just sit out of practice whenever they want and call it “business“.  If there’s no penalties or fines allowed for this selfish behavior, they need to correct this in the next collective bargaining agreement. 
 

I don’t know if this is Cook’s intention, but I think this move by Cook reduces the chances of Buffalo offering him a multi year contract. 
 

I agree Cook has every right to make as much money as he can. I just disagree this is the way to do it.  If he believes Buffalo’s offer isn’t enough, use that perceived slight as motivation.  Get a big injury insurance policy. Then go prove your worth on the field this season and sign next spring for as much as you can get, wherever you choose to sign. 
 

 

Well, whatever they do they need to do it in a timely fashion. I get these things take time, but this has been dragging on for a while. Honestly, I’m about to ready to say “trade him.” I think Ray Davis and Ty Johnson are more than capable. 

[JP51]

14 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Can anybody name one season in NFL history that was derailed because of a hold out? By a RB no less? This is just SOP at this point. Players hold out. Players deals get done, they get traded, or they play for the payday the next year. The holding out part is just part of the business at this point. 

I 100% agree with this... unless this gets ugly and is unresolved into the season... he doesnt play, holds out to game 10 or whatever the last game is and then tries to comeback so he can get his year in. Ugly things happen then when a player is coming back at a time when supreme focus is required... if he doesnt handle it properly, sits and pouts and takes it to the media cause he is not playing etc... then it can become distracting... In the camp time... this stuff is done all the time, players get it and may have done it or thought about it as well... you only have so much time to be paid and as a 200lb RB who puts his nose in the pile 10 -20 times a game... clearly that longevity is at risk in a precarious way....  Bottom line, this should not be a distraction unless it is handled poorly by both parties and extends deep into the season... JMO Last thing I will say, a prolonged hold out is really risky for him as well... Ray D comes in and produces in a similar way and the team moves on like next man up... that is gonna hurt his negotiating on a league wide level... I also recognize that he and his brother are not the same people... but I can imagine people have Dalvin in the back of their minds going we hope he doesnt fall off that cliff...  etc... this is a really interesting exhibition of negotiation for sure... 

Edited Tuesday at 02:03 PM by JP51

[Lost]

2 hours ago, H2o said:

 Cook or no Cook, Josh will throw for 4000 and get his 40+ TD's. 

 

Josh Allen will probably never throw for 4000 yards again with Joe Brady as coordinator.   This run heavy offensive scheme has really limited Josh's passing attempts.   Further exacerbated by our lack of field separators in the WR group and Beane's philosophy of "we score points we don't need receivers" mentality. 

[Watkins90]

16 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

The culture that has been set for these athletes is so ridiculous, massive egos, it's disgusting...you're under contract,  I know he's there. but no other profession could you pull this bs, ball out 1 more years and go get your $ , this diva ***** - i can't stand it 

Hope he's traded immediately.  We roll with Ray and a trade candidate and Ty, besides that play vs KC, which was freaking amazing, extremely clutch this guy hasn't impressed me like a Saquon or Henry, not even close

Also, you don't think guys in the locker room are bothered? whether they support Cook or disagree, it just creates a terrible culture 

The team can cut a player whenever they want. So, I don't blame Cook. 

[dave mcbride]

32 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

Josh Allen will probably never throw for 4000 yards again with Joe Brady as coordinator.   This run heavy offensive scheme has really limited Josh's passing attempts.   Further exacerbated by our lack of field separators in the WR group and Beane's philosophy of "we score points we don't need receivers" mentality. 

He probably would have thrown for 4,000 last year if he didn't essentially sit out the final game of the season. If that game mattered and was close, he would have gotten there.