Ranking NFL WR, TE, RB groups for 2025: Bills 28/32?

[Nelius]

32 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Cook is not an every down back, Pacheco is. Kelce in his semi retired form is still far more productive than Kincaid; I hope that changes this year but there is nothing to guarantee that it will.

You can’t possibly think the reigning leading rushing TD leader is less valuable than Pacheco right now? Like current, 3.7 ypc Pacheco? He’s done nothing in two years and never really reached his full potential before then. I get that miserably hating has become kind of your schtick, but this is really out there. 

[The Cincinnati Kid]

🥱 Rankings are great until the games are played. The facts are that the QB does also play in the games, and Allen will get the most out the pass-catchers on the team. Well researched, well intentioned, well written, well, whatever. Games are played with all 11 of the players, not the ones Barnwell chooses.

[uticaclub]

38 minutes ago, Nelius said:

You can’t possibly think the reigning leading rushing TD leader is less valuable than Pacheco right now? Like current, 3.7 ypc Pacheco? He’s done nothing in two years and never really reached his full potential before then. I get that miserably hating has become kind of your schtick, but this is really out there. 

It's based on the metrics Barnwell explained in the article. Pacheco plays three downs, while Cooks does not; therefore, he is deemed more valuable, even though Cook produces more. I believe Cook is the 2nd best player on our team.

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

I lot of fans agree that the Bills skill position groups (minus QB) deserve to be ranked in the 20s.  

I wonder if these are the same folks who want to fire McD for not getting to the SB despite our shortcomings at WR, TE, and RB (and elsewhere).

 

And if they're the same people who don't want to fire Beane despite some of the challenges he's had with roster-building.  

I'm not pointing fingers or blaming anyone.  Just curious.  Despite some poor decisions over the years, I personally find it hard to blame McD for not winning us a Lombardi when he's never been given a Lombardi caliber roster.  

The best rosters were 2020-22 and even those had some holes

Edited Tuesday at 11:54 PM by uticaclub

[Process]

There are several teams there that I would put the Bills ahead of. Jets Saints and Chargers for example. 

[MJS]

4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It’s maybe a little unfair. The WRs are at or near the bottom. The TEs are top 10ish and the backs are top 10ish. I’d say closer to 20.

Completely agree. That's how I see it. The ranking is really just a WR ranking except for the teams that he wanted to talk up a TE or RB.

[JerseyBills]

Don't be surprised if he breaks out, very young still

[julian]

3 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

I lot of fans agree that the Bills skill position groups (minus QB) deserve to be ranked in the 20s.  

I wonder if these are the same folks who want to fire McD for not getting to the SB despite our shortcomings at WR, TE, and RB (and elsewhere).

 

And if they're the same people who don't want to fire Beane despite some of the challenges he's had with roster-building.  

I'm not pointing fingers or blaming anyone.  Just curious.  Despite some poor decisions over the years, I personally find it hard to blame McD for not winning us a Lombardi when he's never been given a Lombardi caliber roster.  

I agree about the lack of a SB calibre roster, but it’s really hard to forgive McDermott for pooping down his own leg in the 2021 playoffs when Allen was on the greatest playoff heater of all time with 9TDs 0 turnovers and was sent home.

 

 I’ve forgiven him and believe he’s a much better coach now than he was then, I’m hoping he can do it, I think he can.

[Sierra Foothills]

8 hours ago, HOUSE said:

This is going to really piss Brandon Beane off. 

 

If Beane's invited as a guest on Barnwell's podcast, he'll likely go all WGR on Barney.

 

2 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Don't be surprised if he breaks out, very young still

 

The fact that Barnwell's only counting the top 5 skill position players on each team definitely works against the Bills. I think it's reasonable to say that the Bills have good to very good depth at WR, TE, and RB but this exercise discounts depth in favor of top-line starters.

 

I've noticed some here have poo-poo'd the Bills' free agent signings at WR and I understand that after the Trent Sherfield/Deonte Harty play 2 years ago but I'm in agreement with those who are optimistic about Elijah Moore and Josh Palmer. Hell, I'm optimistic about Curtis Samuel and Keon Coleman too. And we know who Shakir is. I agree with the comment upthread that some/many are sleeping on the Bills WRs but I also understand those who are taking a wait and see approach.

 

[Artful Dodger]

In his methodology, wide receivers are weighted more heavily than running backs or tight ends.  So, the Bills' strongest skill player, James Cook, contributed less to the overall ranking than the Bills' mostly underwhelming group of receivers.  He also used recent performance history, and players such as Dalton Kincaid and Curtis Samuel had down years last year.  

 

If his methodology is accurate, imagine how good Josh Allen and the offensive line are to propel the Bills into being one of the top ranked offenses in the league.  

[JP51]

11 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said:

In his methodology, wide receivers are weighted more heavily than running backs or tight ends.  So, the Bills' strongest skill player, James Cook, contributed less to the overall ranking than the Bills' mostly underwhelming group of receivers.  He also used recent performance history, and players such as Dalton Kincaid and Curtis Samuel had down years last year.  

 

If his methodology is accurate, imagine how good Josh Allen and the offensive line are to propel the Bills into being one of the top ranked offenses in the league.  

I think I am taking it like this...  He rates a perennial top 5 offense 28th in WR, TE and RB...  this is a reflection to me on just how insanely good JA is and just how good the OL is...  take the WR, TE and RB and switch them to the Falcons, Browns, Jets, Saints, Jags, Colts etc... and where does that offense end up... that said... 28th is a bit harsh.... 

[nedboy7]

In my rankings I have the Bills at #5.  No I am not willing to share my methodology until you join my substack for $99 for the year. 

[corta765]

15 hours ago, uticaclub said:

It's based on the metrics Barnwell explained in the article. Pacheco plays three downs, while Cooks does not; therefore, he is deemed more valuable, even though Cook produces more. I believe Cook is the 2nd best player on our team.

The best rosters were 2020-22 and even those had some holes

Beane has brought up that after the QB gets paid it is very difficult to have every spot filled to perfection. The 2020-22 still benefitted from Josh on a rookie contract at that time. Unfortunately injuries in 21/22 robbed the Bills on defense of some important guys which happens and also sucks. 

 

Of the teams from 23-25 on paper this is without a doubt the best roster of those ... again on paper.

The strength of the offense beside 17 is the O-line which is Top 5 and they have some truly good players in Cook & Shakir that help for sure. A WR or two emerging or Kincaid will help to make the offense more dynamic, fingers crossed Palmer does what projections show. But the big question is WR heading into the season which to me until an answer shows makes it hard to see them improved over last year. I doubt we ever see Josh with a WR group like 2020-2022 as the NFL had changed also with more an emphasis on the run and the 2 safety shell high. Additionally he is so good and helps the WRs that you can get away with lesser talent .. a la Brady in NE. I don't fully agree with this as they wasted 2023/24 draft to double dip at WR and we only got Coleman, but again with Josh no longer on rookie contract this is life.

 

On defense the D-line is probably the deepest yet, LBs are solid, and CB is decent especially at CB1/NCB. I am really hoping Bishop is something solid at safety because when Rapp was gone SAF was real safety. CB2 having a true solution whether it be Maxwell or Tre would be big to real up the floor of the secondary.

 

So again while not perfect as there are areas you wish you had a few more solutions, they have plenty of good impact guys that give a really solid roster now. I hate looking back and saying "if only" but 21/22 for different reasons give that feeling given how the roster was.

[Goin Breakdown]

Get on the horn and get em Beane!! Them sum a bidges

[BADOLBILZ]

19 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It’s maybe a little unfair. The WRs are at or near the bottom. The TEs are top 10ish and the backs are top 10ish. I’d say closer to 20.

 

 

A lot of people have responded to this thread not reading the part where Barnwell explained that he adds more weight to the WR position than others.  

 

Which is how it should be.

 

Of these 3 skill positions WR's are more able to impact the game individually.

 

That's why they are the only one's who get paid premium level pay.

 

And even then it's really just the boundary receivers who get that money.

[SCBills]

Bills TE room has a high ceiling, but is probably middle of the pack entering the season until proven otherwise. 
 

Bills RB room is Top 10, probably approaching Top 5 or 6 when factoring in high end talent in Cook and the depth with Davis and Johnson. 
 

Bills WR room is clearly a bottom third unit on paper.  The depth is pretty solid with Moore & Samuel rounding out the room, most likely.   But a Top 3 of new to the team Palmer, Shakir and unproven Coleman isn’t scaring anyone aside from the fact it’s part of an Offense led by an elite QB, elite OL and elite playcaller. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

What does this mean, is he being sarcastic, ." Khalil Shakir continues to improve and averaged an impressive 2.4 yards per route run last year"  How ia 2.4 yards per route inpressive?

[HappyDays]

44 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

What does this mean, is he being sarcastic, ." Khalil Shakir continues to improve and averaged an impressive 2.4 yards per route run last year"  How ia 2.4 yards per route inpressive?

 

Yes that is impressive, it ranked 17th in the NFL last year (minimum 50 routes run). As a point of reference Ja'Marr Chase had 2.5 yards per route run. Maybe you're thinking of per target efficiency... This is talking about every single route including ones where the player isn't targeted.

[BuffaloMatt]

Bills have made it to the elite eight and or final four since we lost to Houston in the playoffs. Seems incorrect to me. 

[Don Otreply]

Off season click bait,

[Kirby Jackson]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

A lot of people have responded to this thread not reading the part where Barnwell explained that he adds more weight to the WR position than others.  

 

Which is how it should be.

 

Of these 3 skill positions WR's are more able to impact the game individually.

 

That's why they are the only one's who get paid premium level pay.

 

And even then it's really just the boundary receivers who get that money.

Yep. Any weighting of WR isn’t going to help the Bills. They aren’t good at that position comparatively.