ExiledInIllinois Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Mitch Trubisky went #2. The Bears are worse. 😆 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 52 minutes ago, LEBills said: Don’t forget that Mahomes may not be what he is now without being able to sit one year, inherit a perennial playoff team and having the best Offensive coach in the league since the start. It’s honestly amazing how good Josh is with how talent depleted that 2018 team was. Been telling people this for years now. Mahomes landed in the best situation possible compared to Josh. Yet everyone will tell you that Josh wouldn't have accomplished what Mahomes has if the roles were reversed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, FireChans said: The teams that drafted 1-9 missed on Mahome, but didn’t give their pick to Andy Reid to draft him. I promise, Bears fans still lament taking Trubisky that draft instead of Mahomes lol. In essence they did when they failed to draft Mahomes. Don't get me wrong, I understand why some Bills fans enjoy the self-flagellation over the trade - very similar to the hand-wringing about not drafting Brady well after the fact. To each their own. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said: In essence they did when they failed to draft Mahomes. Don't get me wrong, I understand why some Bills fans enjoy the self-flagellation over the trade - very similar to the hand-wringing about not drafting Brady well after the fact. To each their own. A gun is on the ground. I don’t pick it up. you pick it up and give it to a criminal. Who did worse? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, FireChans said: A gun is on the ground. I don’t pick it up. you pick it up and give it to a criminal. Who did worse? It was a water pistol - who cares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Just now, SinceThe70s said: It was a water pistol - who cares? An avoidance of the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Just now, FireChans said: An avoidance of the question. Yup - not interested in your line of questioning. I'm happy to hold my opinion - and equally happy for you to hold yours. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, FireChans said: KC won the trade. Best QB in football and moving up 17 slots in the first for the paltry sum of a late first rounder the following year. They have won 3 Superbowls and been to 6 AFCCG since the trade. I’d trade our first round pick for the next 50 years for that kind of success. No brainer. Josh Allen was a great consolation prize, but we were the architects of our own demise unfortunately. May I ask how old you are (I'm not really seriously asking) that you are willing to trade 50 years of what I am envisioning that you are envisioning as 50 years of drought era football, lol I'm wondering if you asked a 35-40 year old 49ers fan how they've enjoyed those early championships and they might feel a certain way about whoever wag back said they would mortgage the next 50 years if they could just win a few right now! Edited February 23 by HardyBoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 8 minutes ago, HardyBoy said: May I ask how old you are (I'm not really seriously asking) that you are willing to trade 50 years of what I am envisioning that you are envisioning as 50 years of drought era football, lol I'm wondering if you asked a 35-40 year old 49ers fan how they've enjoyed those early championships and they might feel a certain way about whoever wag back said they would mortgage the next 50 years if they could just win a few right now! Losing first rounders isn’t the end of the world. The Bills have had their first round picks for the most of the last 50 years and we still don’t have a ring. So what difference would it make, besides having 3 and the best QB in football and an all time dynasty in football lore? 12 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said: Yup - not interested in your line of questioning. I'm happy to hold my opinion - and equally happy for you to hold yours. You won’t answer because you know the answer lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Am The Liquor Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 I think a lot of people gloss over the fact that Mahomes waltzed right into an absolute perfect situation. Andy Reid took over in 2013, since 2015, that team has made the playoffs every year. That roster was stacked the second he walked on the field as a starter in 2018. On the other hand, Josh Allen walked straight up into a rebuild that was only in it's second year and with a head coach with only one year under his belt. People that think we would have won multiple Super Bowls or even just one because we draft Mahomes instead of trading that pick are delusional. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beebe Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 This is a recap of what is being referenced: According to a report in the newly-founded NFL newsletter Go Long with Tyler Dunne (subscribe), the team’s co-owner wanted to draft Mahomes with the No. 10 overall pick at the 2017 NFL Draft. Former team executives Doug Whaley and Jim Monos both backed that Pegula mentioned multiple times prior to the draft that he was very impressed with the Texas Tech QB. Naturally it’s important to preface that the Bills are currently 7-3 and in the driver’s seat to win the AFC East with their 2018 first-round pick and starting quarterback Josh Allen. Everyone at One Bills Drive is happy with the way things currently sit. But in the report, Whaley even reportedly told Pegula “This is your team,” prior to the 2017 draft, in an attempt to explain that he has the final say because it was widely-known by the Bills’ scouting staff that the owner loved what Mahomes could do. However, it doesn’t take much more than an educated guess to see what happened in the end. Just prior to the 2017 draft, Sean McDermott was hired as head coach. He clearly did not want Mahomes at the No. 10 overall pick, so the Bills traded back with the Chiefs, took Tre’Davious White there, and eventually landed Allen with extra first-round picks via the Chiefs deal. We all already knew McDermott was pulling the strings at the year’s draft because hours after it, the front office was cleaned out, including Whaley and Monos. A week-plus later, Brandon Beane was hired as general manager. Again, we all lived happily ever after (or happier than a 17-year playoff drought). But in an added twist, in 2017, the Bills still had hoped Mahomes would be there in a trade back to pick No. 27. Despite McDermott’s relationship with Chiefs head coach Andy Reid (their relationship was probably helpful in pre-draft trade discussions), the Bills were not sure what QB that Reid & Co. coveted with the No. 10 pick. Could it be Deshaun Watson (who went No. 12)? Nope, it was Mahomes, and now here we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsgoodtime Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 31 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said: Been telling people this for years now. Mahomes landed in the best situation possible compared to Josh. Yet everyone will tell you that Josh wouldn't have accomplished what Mahomes has if the roles were reversed. I agree 100% To put it in simple terms, If you only swapped the QBs with the Bills and Chiefs, I absolutely belive Josh Allen has multiple Superbowl wins with the Chiefs and Mahomes has 0 with the Bills now. The qb has not been the issue we can't beat the Chiefs, its all the players and coaches around the QB, that is the difference 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beebe Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 One of the crazier things is how the Chiefs managed to keep it secret. Veach was drooling over the guy for multiple years. Andy Reid on Veach's love affair with Mahomes: Veach couldn’t emphasize enough that Mahomes was “special,” perhaps even transformational. “Right from the get-go — for about a year and a half,” Reid said. “When Brett gets something like that, he’s going to let you know.” Alex Smith knew the Chiefs liked him more than two years before the 2017 draft: "Patrick had just finished his freshman year at Texas Tech, and I can remember Brett Veach coming in - he wasn't the GM at the time, but he is now - he was hugely responsible for the Chiefs ultimately taking Patrick and moving up. He was in love with Patrick after his freshman year. I remember him coming in, we had a great relationship, he would come into the QB room and say, 'You guys gotta see this guy. Yada, yada.' Because we would always talk ball. Veach had his eyes on him for a long time." The Chiefs were in contact with his reps every day for 3 months before the draft: Chris Cabott, who co-represents Mahomes with Leigh Steinberg and told Terez Paylor of Yahoo Sports that “for like 94 straight days” before the draft, they had communicated with Veach in “some way, shape or form.” *** At minimum, Alex Smith could have leaked to someone that the Chiefs wanted to draft his replacement. Instead, KC took Mahomes and Smith was traded to Washington a year later. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaulGoodman Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, LEBills said: Don’t forget that Mahomes may not be what he is now without being able to sit one year, inherit a perennial playoff team and having the best Offensive coach in the league since the start. It’s honestly amazing how good Josh is with how talent depleted that 2018 team was. Weren't the Bills a 9-7 playoff team the year before? With Tyrod Taylor at QB? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, LEBills said: Don’t forget that Mahomes may not be what he is now without being able to sit one year, inherit a perennial playoff team and having the best Offensive coach in the league since the start. It’s honestly amazing how good Josh is with how talent depleted that 2018 team was. I think the more interesting conversation is if we stayed out, took someone else, and whether the saints snagged mahomes. I don’t think mahomes is a success had we taken him with that support (staff and roster) for multiple years before tooling up the offense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEBills Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 4 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said: Weren't the Bills a 9-7 playoff team the year before? With Tyrod Taylor at QB? The Chiefs won 53 games in the 5 seasons prior to Mahomes starting (the early Andy Reid Era). Mahomes was throwing to Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce in 2018 The Bills did make the playoffs in 2017 with a -56 point differential (good for 22nd out of 32 teams). Josh was throwing to Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones and Robert Foster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) Oh great, another LAMP post about ancient history from someone who almost never posts here. Classic hit-and-run poster too. Doesn't even respond to any other posters. Edited February 24 by Mark Vader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 In 10 years, more people outside of Buffalo will evaluate the trade as, "oh, it worked out great for both teams!" Pretty sure on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfanatic8989 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Fair or not, we essentially handed the Chiefs the driving force behind a dynasty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 15 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said: Weren't the Bills a 9-7 playoff team the year before? With Tyrod Taylor at QB? We get it. KC's success is 100% due to Mahomes, not just the greatest QB in history, or the greatest athlete of all time, but one of the most amazing people to ever live on the planet Earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Kyle Shannahan and John Lynch do not get the blow back they should. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Really thinking it might be time for a KC subforum. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaulGoodman Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 17 minutes ago, LEBills said: The Chiefs won 53 games in the 5 seasons prior to Mahomes starting (the early Andy Reid Era). Mahomes was throwing to Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce in 2018 The Bills did make the playoffs in 2017 with a -56 point differential (good for 22nd out of 32 teams). Josh was throwing to Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones and Robert Foster. If a talent-depleted team led by Tyrod Taylor reached the playoffs, McD must be better than many think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Just now, SaulGoodman said: If a talent-depleted team led by Tyrod Taylor reached the playoffs, McD must be better than many think. That's your sample size? We needed a miracle play by Andy Dalton & Tyler Boyd to even have a chance that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaulGoodman Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 minutes ago, Success said: That's your sample size? We needed a miracle play by Andy Dalton & Tyler Boyd to even have a chance that year. As opposed to the people who judge him based on one or two decisions from a few games? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEBills Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 6 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said: If a talent-depleted team led by Tyrod Taylor reached the playoffs, McD must be better than many think. McD is a good coach, which wasn’t my point. But Andy Reid is unquestionably better and specializes in Mahomes side of the ball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said: As opposed to the people who judge him based on one or two decisions from a few games? Who does that? You're on a board of fans that have had a chance to watch everything McDermott has done. To make a blanket conclusion about him because he backed into the playoffs one year w/ Tyrod Taylor? Not very scientific. I mean, what's your premise? Allen & Mahomes have had equal circumstances every step of the way, so obviously Mahomes is way better based on results? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 29 minutes ago, MRW said: Really thinking it might be time for a KC subforum. or a Bills subforum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 As I have said before, if we did not have the good fortune to draft Josh and Josh developing the way he did, McD would forever be know as the idiot that traded the opportunity to pick Mahomes who not only is a generational QB but also a thorn in our side every year. Also, without Josh, McD would have been fired long ago as well as being remembered for making this trade. McD and we should thank our lucky stars that we have Josh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaulGoodman Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 minute ago, Success said: Who does that? You're on a board of fans that have had a chance to watch everything McDermott has done. To make a blanket conclusion about him because he backed into the playoffs one year w/ Tyrod Taylor? Not very scientific. I mean, what's your premise? Allen & Mahomes have had equal circumstances every step of the way, so obviously Mahomes is way better based on results? Are you saying that the narrative about McDermott wouldn't be vastly different if a couple plays/decisions were reversed? And no, I don't think Allen walked into the perfect circumstances. But that doesn't mean he'd have won as much or more as Mahomes if the roles were reversed, as many claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Kansas City won the trade. Without question. They drafted the best QB in football. But the Bills did about as good a job losing a trade as you could ever do. An all pro corner and then a pick that helped them land the 2nd best QB in football the following year. Incorrect. They got Tre White and Tremaine Edmunds for the only notable draft pick value that they acquired for the Patrick Mahomes pick trade. People have been mis-stating for years that the Bills were able to move up for Allen with draft pick capital acquired in the Mahomes pick trade...........surprised you are one of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 this again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 10 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said: Are you saying that the narrative about McDermott wouldn't be vastly different if a couple plays/decisions were reversed? And no, I don't think Allen walked into the perfect circumstances. But that doesn't mean he'd have won as much or more as Mahomes if the roles were reversed, as many claim. I 100% believe Allen would be as successful as Mahomes if he was playing for KC. If not more.. What now? Edited February 24 by Success Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Returntoglory Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: this again... There is not another post with this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 25 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Incorrect. They got Tre White and Tremaine Edmunds for the only notable draft pick value that they acquired for the Patrick Mahomes pick trade. People have been mis-stating for years that the Bills were able to move up for Allen with draft pick capital acquired in the Mahomes pick trade...........surprised you are one of them. Yeah, but just because they didn’t use that specific pick doesn’t mean that having the extra draft capital didn’t allow it to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 11 minutes ago, Billl said: or a Bills subforum. Yeah it's ridiculous but apparently we have a lot of finish-line fans who want to win a SB immediately so they can hurry up and die. The Chiefs obsession is annoying but Chiefs fans have been there with the Broncos as Denver was reaching 8 SB's and winning 3 since KC had last been to one. I'll never forget when a half dead Peyton Manning beat KC in KC in the closing seconds(on the way to another SB) in his last season. Before that Elway was totally in Chiefs fans heads. The Bills all-timer is still the hate for the Dolphins from the 1970's thru the early 2000's. Because there was an actual rivalry there with divisional races and playoff matchups etc.. The New England domination was much greater but it's only second because there was no rivalry. Buffalo never even won a meaningful game in the regular season against NE with Brady there, let alone a playoff game. KC obsession is newer but gaining fast because there is an actual rivalry with lot's of regular season wins and narrow playoff losses. Most of the obsessing is just based in ignorance. They can't really understand why the team keeps losing so they think it's something bigger and means more than it does. After a nearly 50 year stretch of KC being the only team in the AFC West to not play in a Super Bowl they get Patrick Mahomes and all of a sudden all KC fans can see it maybe wasn't a curse or conspiracy or some inherent organizational flaw after all. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said: Yeah it's ridiculous but apparently we have a lot of finish-line fans who want to win a SB immediately so they can hurry up and die. The Chiefs obsession is annoying but Chiefs fans have been there with the Broncos as Denver was reaching 8 SB's and winning 3 since KC had last been to one. I'll never forget when a half dead Peyton Manning beat KC in KC in the closing seconds(on the way to another SB) in his last season. Before that Elway was totally in Chiefs fans heads. The Bills all-timer is still the hate for the Dolphins from the 1970's thru the early 2000's. Because there was an actual rivalry there with divisional races and playoff matchups etc.. The New England domination was much greater but it's only second because there was no rivalry. Buffalo never even won a meaningful game in the regular season against NE with Brady there, let alone a playoff game. KC obsession is newer but gaining fast because there is an actual rivalry with lot's of regular season wins and narrow playoff losses. Most of the obsessing is just based in ignorance. They can't really understand why the team keeps losing so they think it's something bigger and means more than it does. After a nearly 50 year stretch of KC being the only team in the AFC West to not play in a Super Bowl they get Patrick Mahomes and all of a sudden all KC fans can see it maybe wasn't a curse or conspiracy or some inherent organizational flaw after all. The Fitz/Fred Jackson/4 INT game! That game was the most exciting moment in 2 decades for me as a fan. But, otherwise, the bolded is sadly correct. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 23 minutes ago, Returntoglory said: There is not another post with this subject. you didn’t even try… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 3 minutes ago, Billl said: Yeah, but just because they didn’t use that specific pick doesn’t mean that having the extra draft capital didn’t allow it to happen. It literally means exactly that. Obviously if they had drafted Patrick Mahomes they wouldn't have drafted Josh Allen. That's the only way it helped them get Josh Allen though. Obviously the problem is that they handed a conference rival with a stable coaching staff and roster a franchise QB just as the Bills were simultaneously turning over their own regime and roster in the name of "process". Even at the time those of us who believed in Mahomes as a prospect could see what was being set up. Who you trade with is extremely important. If Mahomes ends up in the NFC and the Bills still get Allen..........the Bills might be the one's winning the AFC every year. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beebe Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 36 minutes ago, Peter said: As I have said before, if we did not have the good fortune to draft Josh and Josh developing the way he did, McD would forever be know as the idiot that traded the opportunity to pick Mahomes who not only is a generational QB but also a thorn in our side every year. Also, without Josh, McD would have been fired long ago as well as being remembered for making this trade. McD and we should thank our lucky stars that we have Josh. Buffalo's defensive ranks since 2018... Points allowed: 2018 - 18th 2019 - 2nd 2020 - 16th 2021: 1st 2022: 2nd 2023: 4th Defensive DVOA: 2018 - 2nd 2019 - 6th 2020 - 11th 2021 - 1st 2022 - 2nd 2023 - 12th In points, McDermott's D has outperformed the offense four times, tied once, and was worse once (2020). In DVOA, McDermott's D has outperformed the offense three times, tied once, and was worse twice (2020, 2023). Overall, if you take the six seasons cumulatively over the entire league, no defense in the NFL has finished better than the Bills in defensive DVOA. Obviously, McDermott's playoff failures vs the Chiefs are well documented, but he would have for sure held his own with a league-average QB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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