Multiple people shot at KC parade.

[SoCal Deek]

15 minutes ago, klos63 said:

There will be more shootings in the next 24 hours,  so we need to wait another 24 and so on... nothing will ever get discussed with that logic. 

Which laws are not enforced that would prevent shootings?

 

 

Yes I’m sure right. It’s always way better to write and pass legislation before the facts have been gathered by the authorities. 

[juno999]

8 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

What laws that are sensible are not enforced?  I agree w the insane SSRI use in this country.  You seem to be stuck on lack of liberal law enforcement in general as a reason to not have gun control?  Not sure I get your reasoning. 
BTW conservative counties have just as much gun violence if not more.  

How about all the laws regarding border security?  You think those existing laws are being enforced?

[paulmm3]

Bummer. RIP. Shame on those promoting a political agenda coming out of this.

[nedboy7]

8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Yet another sickening tragedy.  For those claiming it is solely a mental health issue as some politicians do, then here’s what I want to see:  a bill to increase mental health care.  Let’s see a bill that dedicates billions to recruitment and training of more mental health care professionals, more trained school counselors, more intervention.  If not then I don’t want to hear a damn word from any of those hypocrites.

The Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981, passed by a Democratic-controlled House of Representatives and a Republican-controlled Senate, and signed by President Ronald Reagan on August 13, 1981, repealed most of the Mental Health Systems Act.

 

I don’t see a commitment from conservative states to mental health. Do you? 

1 minute ago, juno999 said:

How about all the laws regarding border security?  You think those existing laws are being enforced?

I was discussing gun laws but you move the narrative as you feel fit.  Done w you. 

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

The Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981, passed by a Democratic-controlled House of Representatives and a Republican-controlled Senate, and signed by President Ronald Reagan on August 13, 1981, repealed most of the Mental Health Systems Act.

 

I don’t see a commitment from conservative states to mental health. Do you? 

And this applies to this topic, how exactly? 

[BillsPride12]

1 hour ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

People used to sleep with their doors unblocked and buy guns through the mail without any background search.  Now we live in a society where they have to lock up hand lotion at CVS and babies get shot with stray bullets, sleeping in their cribs.  What "progress" we've made.

 

It's sad in a lot of ways we have really gone backwards as a society.  Although I don't know what the motivation was behind this most recent shooting was so I won't speculate on this case in particular but speaking more from a general standpoint...we are living in a Country where people are really struggling on a daily basis.  People are just not well mentally.  We make this world as difficult as we possibly can on people and then we wonder why so many people are struggling with their mental health.  Without even getting into the gun control debate, we have to accept that we have a mental health epidemic in this Country and changes are drastically needed.  Has anybody ever seen the movie Falling Down from 1992?  Now take that and multiply it by 1000 the way the world has evolved since then.  

[Gugny]

2 hours ago, boyst said:

Take the number of death by gun. Remove suicide. The rate drops significantly. Take the amount of crime commited with legally obtained guns. You can break it down even further but it's an ugly wormhole to show all of the problems with the simple "gun culture" argument. 

And... Folks wonder why no one takes arguments about this seriously. A legitimate question was asked and is often asked without a reasonable response.

Nearly all of the mass shootings in this country have been by US citizens with legally-obtained firearms. 

[Buffalo Boy]

11 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

So your argument is that because bad humans are religious then religion is bad?

    I see a world full of Abrahamic derived religions bludgeoning each other.

   I don’t see angels or miracles or any other sort of magic🤷‍♂️ Tons of beheadings, shootings and wars though….. in the name of some god.

   A fav lyric of mine: 

   “ People say you go somewhere when you die.

    But all I know is right now I’m alive.

    I guess I’ll find out when I’m dead,

    But I ain’t countin on it.”

 

    But hey, Thoughts and prayers 😉

[KDIGGZ]

1 minute ago, BillsPride12 said:

 

It's sad in a lot of ways we have really gone backwards as a society.  Although I don't know what the motivation was behind this most recent shooting was so I won't speculate on this case in particular but speaking more from a general standpoint...we are living in a Country where people are really struggling on a daily basis.  People are just not well mentally.  We make this world as difficult as we possibly can on people and then we wonder why so many people are struggling with their mental health.  Without even getting into the gun control debate, we have to accept that we have a mental health epidemic in this Country and changes are drastically needed.  Has anybody ever seen the movie Falling Down from 1992?  Now take that and multiply it by 1000 the way the world has evolved since then.  

You think life is difficult NOW? Life has never been easier in human history and that is the problem. People have no purpose. We need to get back to strong family values, hard work, and determination.

[julian]

5 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Nearly all of the mass shootings in this country have been by US citizens with legally-obtained firearms. 

And next weekend in Chicago just like every weekend another 45 young black kids/men will kill each other and nobody will say a word, silent until the next mass shooting then back onto the gun debate.

Edited February 15 by julian

[KDIGGZ]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

    I see a world full of Abrahamic derived religions bludgeoning each other.

   I don’t see angels or miracles or any other sort of magic🤷‍♂️ Tons of beheadings, shootings and wars though….. in the name of some god.

   A fav lyric of mine: 

   “ People say you go somewhere when you die.

    But all I know is right now I’m alive.

    I guess I’ll find out when I’m dead,

    But I ain’t countin on it.”

 

    But hey, Thoughts and prayers 😉

If you haven't figured it out yet, humans are bad. They can do bad things in the name of whatever they want: religion, politics, race, geography, tribes, whatever they can latch on to that makes the other side different. Just because bad people can twist something great into something bad means that the words have any less meaning or can change your own life any less. It's a personal journey, I wouldn't be so quick to write it all off. It's never too late.

[klos63]

31 minutes ago, SCBills said:

John Doe is 16 years old. 
 

Commits a violent crime as a juvenile.  Judge is lenient and record is wiped when John Doe turns 18. 
 

John Doe jumps someone and is arrested at 18.  Pleads down to a misdemeanor. 
 

John Doe steals from a store.  Arrested.   Back out on the street.   Does it again. Arrested.  Back on the street. 
 

Should this person have legal access to a firearm? 
 

No. They shouldn’t.  But we elect people in these areas that feel, for whatever reason, that they need saving and let them slide through, unflagged in the registry … until the day they legally obtain a firearm and kill someone. 
 

People typically tell you who they are.  They usually don’t go from strait laced choir boy to staying strapped and taking a life. 
 

Or they do get flagged and illegally obtain a gun. 
 

Or they have mental health issues that go unchecked and/or medicated… and we, as a society, have no idea how to deal with the fact half this country is under chemical control.  

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. 

I wasn't asking you to create a story, I'm guessing this john doe isn't a real person.

Which laws aren't being enforced? Can you cite a specific law?

29 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Yes I’m sure right. It’s always way better to write and pass legislation before the facts have been gathered by the authorities. 

Yeah,  you're probably right. 

We don't have nearly enough gun violence to to help come up with any solutions yet.  Hopefully, someday. 

[SCBills]

13 minutes ago, julian said:

And next weekend in Chicago just like every weekend another 45 young black kids/men will kill each other and nobody will say a word, silent until the next mass shooting then back onto the gun debate.

The gun control advocates don’t care when it’s black people gunning down black people in the parts of cities they never go to. 
 

It’s only a problem when that violence bleeds out into the areas they feel threatened by. 
 

And then they happily invoke the inner city gun violence statistics to back up their position as the moral high ground. 

[Buffalo Boy]

Just now, KDIGGZ said:

If you haven't figured it out yet, humans are bad. They can do bad things in the name of whatever they want: religion, politics, race, geography, tribes, whatever they can latch on to that makes the other side different. Just because bad people can twist something great into something bad means that the words have any less meaning or can change your own life any less. It's a personal journey, I wouldn't be so quick to write it all off. It's never too late.

   I spent my youth going to Catholic mass six times a week. I went to a private Christian high school. 
    One of my happiest moments was when my mother, who passed in 2018 , as she knew she had only months to live, told me she knew there was no heaven.

   Of course, we had a good argument about why she subjected me to all that BS and as with all parents, she was doing the best she could and what she thought was right. It took her till her eighties to break the mental conditioning she’d been subjected to as a depression era girl, but she did.

    Try doing something nice for someone, not because you believe in something, but because it’s just nice to do nice things. That’s a far more noble cause than “ being a good ( pick your sect)” 

    I don’t have all the answers but I also don’t need to deify that which I can’t comprehend.

[Dr. K]

4 hours ago, Lost said:

 

Raising our children to be decent human beings might help too... just a thought

Sure. Let's do that. But not everybody will be able to, so I don’t see this as any solution. In the presence of so many lethal weapons, there will always be enough bad actors around to commit such atrocities. 
 

I think the number of weapons and the type of weapons are the fundamental difference between the US and other countries.

Edited February 15 by Dr. K

[ExiledInIllinois]

20 minutes ago, julian said:

And next weekend in Chicago just like every weekend another 45 young black kids/men will kill each other and nobody will say a word, silent until the next mass shooting then back onto the gun debate.

Myth. 

 

Chicago isn't even on list of most dangerous cities. 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2023/01/31/report-ranks-americas-15-safest-and-most-dangerous-cities-for-2023/?sh=2e33d4e309a2

 

In fact, one suburb of Chicago made nation's safest.

Edited February 15 by ExiledInIllinois

[SoCal Deek]

6 minutes ago, klos63 said:

 

Yeah,  you're probably right. 

We don't have nearly enough gun violence to to help come up with any solutions yet.  Hopefully, someday. 

And you, like many on here, are anxious to solve the problem of this shooting TONIGHT before even understanding what happened. 

[SCBills]

5 minutes ago, klos63 said:

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. 

I wasn't asking you to create a story, I'm guessing this john doe isn't a real person.

Which laws aren't being enforced? Can you cite a specific law?

I literally answered your question.

 

Its just not an answer you apparently want to hear. 
 

You want the band-aid fix. “Give me a specific law!”

 

I did… I gave you multiple laws broken as a precursor to someone who forecasted himself as a threat to society. 
 

And the people who want more gun control keep voting for the people who enable that threat. 

 

Im telling you that this country has cancer and it’s far deeper than us being able to put a bandage over a cut. 

[Lost]

22 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

You think life is difficult NOW? Life has never been easier in human history and that is the problem. People have no purpose. We need to get back to strong family values, hard work, and determination.

 

I'm sure AI will fix that right up 🤣   We're two steps away from literally living in the movie Idiocracy.  

[julian]

9 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Myth. 

 

Chicago isn't even on list of most dangerous cities. 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2023/01/31/report-ranks-americas-15-safest-and-most-dangerous-cities-for-2023/?sh=2e33d4e309a2

 

In fact, one suburb of Chicago made nation's safest.

I’m not a big math guy, but last weekend in Chicago 18 people were shot according to local news.

 

 Maybe that makes Chicago a safe city, I’m not sure.

 

There were 617 homicides and 2450 shootings across Chicago throughout 2023, according to Chicago Police Department data.

Edited February 15 by julian

[That's No Moon]

Thank you to this thread for presenting a microcosm of our society and demonstrating why nothing will ever be done about any of the problems that have been brought up. Have a good night everyone.

[BillsPride12]

28 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

You think life is difficult NOW? Life has never been easier in human history and that is the problem. People have no purpose. We need to get back to strong family values, hard work, and determination.

In some ways sure but there are a lot of problems in modern society.  The economy sucks, inflation is squeezing out the middle class.   Social media has poisoned the way people think.  People are brainwashed by politics.  The world has never been more divided.  There are absolutely legitimate things going on out there contributing to the decline of this society.  I agree with what your saying about people feeling like they have no purpose and lacking strong family values but that comes from some of the stuff I mentioned above.  Are there some lazy people out there milking the system?  Yes of course.  Do I know hard working people that can't get ahead because they are buried in student loan debt and they can barely afford to pay their rent?  Absolutely.

 

I get the point you are trying to make but to say life has never been easier isn't fair to so many people.

[klos63]

28 minutes ago, julian said:

And next weekend in Chicago just like every weekend another 45 young black kids/men will kill each other and nobody will say a word, silent until the next mass shooting then back onto the gun debate.

And while you're focusing on Chicago,  St Louis,  Birmingham, Jackson MI, and New Orleans all have higher gun violence rates. But let's talk about Chicago because....?

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said:

In some ways sure but there are a lot of problems in modern society.  The economy sucks, inflation is squeezing out the middle class.   Social media has poisoned the way people think.  People are brainwashed by politics.  The world has never been more divided.  There are absolutely legitimate things going on out there contributing to the decline of this society.  I agree with what your saying about people feeling like they have no purpose and lacking strong family values but that comes from some of the stuff I mentioned above.  Are there some lazy people out there milking the system?  Yes of course.  Do I know hard working people that can't get ahead because they are buried in student loan debt and they can barely afford to pay their rent?  Absolutely.

 

I get the point you are trying to make but to say life has never been easier isn't fair to so many people.

I find it interesting that you consider people not being able to pay off a loan they freely took out for a higher education to be an example of life being hard. Really? That’s your example? 

[klos63]

15 minutes ago, julian said:

I’m not a big math guy, but last weekend in Chicago 18 people were shot according to local news.

 

 Maybe that makes Chicago a safe city, I’m not sure.

 

There were 617 homicides and 2450 shootings across Chicago throughout 2023, according to Chicago Police Department data.

However bad that number is,  it's a 10% decrease from 2022.

Many cities have a higher homicide rate. 

[julian]

Just now, klos63 said:

And while you're focusing on Chicago,  St Louis,  Birmingham, Jackson MI, and New Orleans all have higher gun violence rates. But let's talk about Chicago because....?

Yeah 100% correct, I think Chicago is really the only city that’s had any substantial reporting on the epidemic of shootings and hand gun violence in the black communities.

 

 It still doesn’t get the nations attention like these mass shootings because the national MSM has decided mass shootings will help with the anti-gun narrative they’re clearly pushing because they don’t believe people value young black men shooting each other like they value the innocent white bystanders being gunned down.

 

its pretty obvious, they don’t even try to hide their agenda.

Just now, klos63 said:

However bad that number is,  it's a 10% decrease from 2022.

Many cities have a higher homicide rate. 

Sure, but getting bogged down in stats misses the point, the media and politicians don’t give a damn because almost all those shootings are perpetrated with handguns by young black men against young black men.

[klos63]

2 minutes ago, julian said:

Yeah 100% correct, I think Chicago is really the only city that’s had any substantial reporting on the epidemic of shootings and hand gun violence in the black communities.

 

 It still doesn’t get the nations attention like these mass shootings because the national MSM has decided mass shootings will help with the anti-gun narrative they’re clearly pushing because they don’t believe people value young black men shooting each other like they value the innocent white bystanders being gunned down.

 

its pretty obvious, they don’t even try to hide their agenda.

Sure, but getting bogged down in stats misses the point, the media and politicians don’t give a damn because almost all those shootings are perpetrated with handguns by young black men against young black men.

This is the media's fault somehow? Who do you think reports on the Chicago violence while ignoring the higher violence rates in other cities?

 

So you think Newtown, Uvalde, Vegas.... got too much coverage? 

[CNYfan]

Hmm?  

 

I think my only concern is motive.

 

Why?

[KDIGGZ]

27 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   I spent my youth going to Catholic mass six times a week. I went to a private Christian high school. 
    One of my happiest moments was when my mother, who passed in 2018 , as she knew she had only months to live, told me she knew there was no heaven.

   Of course, we had a good argument about why she subjected me to all that BS and as with all parents, she was doing the best she could and what she thought was right. It took her till her eighties to break the mental conditioning she’d been subjected to as a depression era girl, but she did.

    Try doing something nice for someone, not because you believe in something, but because it’s just nice to do nice things. That’s a far more noble cause than “ being a good ( pick your sect)” 

    I don’t have all the answers but I also don’t need to deify that which I can’t comprehend.

None of us know or could even comprehend it if we did have all of the answers. It's a personal choice and a personal journey to try with our tiny human brains to understand why we are here and what our purpose is. If you think we are just existing with absolutely no purpose or higher calling then I think that is a lonely existence and maybe there's more to it than that. I wouldn't write it off because bad people say they believe xyz but meanwhile don't live it. Humans are fallible. And that's why I think we need more of a purpose, whatever that means to you

[klos63]

17 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said:

In some ways sure but there are a lot of problems in modern society.  The economy sucks, inflation is squeezing out the middle class.   Social media has poisoned the way people think.  People are brainwashed by politics.  The world has never been more divided.  There are absolutely legitimate things going on out there contributing to the decline of this society.  I agree with what your saying about people feeling like they have no purpose and lacking strong family values but that comes from some of the stuff I mentioned above.  Are there some lazy people out there milking the system?  Yes of course.  Do I know hard working people that can't get ahead because they are buried in student loan debt and they can barely afford to pay their rent?  Absolutely.

 

I get the point you are trying to make but to say life has never been easier isn't fair to so many people.

Most economists from both sides say the economy is very strong. 

 

You say it sucks,  then state that people are brainwashed by politics. 

It's as if you're one of the people you're talking about. 

[julian]

2 minutes ago, klos63 said:

This is the media's fault somehow? Who do you think reports on the Chicago violence while ignoring the higher violence rates in other cities?

 

So you think Newtown, Uvalde, Vegas.... got too much coverage? 

Hey man, if you wanna ignore what’s happening right in front of you that’s your call.

 

I think all shootings should get as much national coverage as possible, but any adult thinking critically can see the types of shootings that get the national attention and the ones that don’t.

 

we’ll just agree to disagree, have a good evening.

[muppy]

1 hour ago, CNYfan said:

Hmm?  

 

I think my only concern is motive.

 

Why?

greetings. I personally think that the motive may come out. But I am less interested in that as I am the overview of who the shooters were, ages, etc.  Even then the parents of these individuals might, I say MIGHT be fine upstanding people. Or NOT. The Parkland school shooters Mother was recently convicted for her sons being enabled to take a gun and shoot to kill 4 kids. The dad goes on trial next.

 

Noone arrested yet. Clearly developing story  .

 

 

 

Edited February 15 by muppy

[Gunsgoodtime]

Can't believe this thread still going, 90% politics and arguing with each other. 

[QCity]

Nothing more American than football and mass shootings.

[klos63]

17 minutes ago, julian said:

Yeah 100% correct, I think Chicago is really the only city that’s had any substantial reporting on the epidemic of shootings and hand gun violence in the black communities.

 

 It still doesn’t get the nations attention like these mass shootings because the national MSM has decided mass shootings will help with the anti-gun narrative they’re clearly pushing because they don’t believe people value young black men shooting each other like they value the innocent white bystanders being gunned down.

 

its pretty obvious, they don’t even try to hide their agenda.

Sure, but getting bogged down in stats misses the point, the media and politicians don’t give a damn because almost all those shootings are perpetrated with handguns by young black men against young black 

Why do you think they don't care? 

I know one party wants nothing to do with gun laws,  but I still think most of them still care a bit about the violence.  

[nedboy7]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

And this applies to this topic, how exactly? 

relax man. 

[CowgirlsFan]

RIP

 

🙏

[nedboy7]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

I find it interesting that you consider people not being able to pay off a loan they freely took out for a higher education to be an example of life being hard. Really? That’s your example? 

how does this apply to this topic dude?  

Edited February 15 by nedboy7

[nedboy7]

1 hour ago, QCity said:

Nothing more American than football and mass shootings.

you forgot obesity. 

[Chicken Boo]

8 hours ago, boyst said:

i'm guessing that any time you can decide to pull the trigger in anger to attack/injure someone you have a few bolts loose.

 

no healthy individual is going to do this.

 

It's a nice thought, but healthy individuals do worse on a daily basis.