McDermott's Two Minute Defense This Year vs Past Seasons

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Offense was fine v Jags v Pats

 

No they weren't.  Against the Jags they scored 7 points going into the 4th quarter and 20 points overall.  Against the Pats they scored 10 points going into the 4th quarter and 25 points overall.  The defense may have had game losing drives but it was the defense that kept them in the game at all.  The offense did nothing for most of both of those games.  In no world was the offense fine.

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

No they weren't.  Against the Jags they scored 7 points going into the 4th quarter and 20 points overall.  Against the Pats they scored 10 points going into the 4th quarter and 25 points overall.  The defense may have had game losing drives but it was the defense that kept them in the game at all.  The offense did nothing for most of both of those games.  In no world was the offense fine.

😂😂😂Are you under the impression that point scored in the fourth quarter are less valuable or something

 

 

[Scott7975]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

😂😂😂Are you under the impression that point scored in the fourth quarter are less valuable or something

 

 

 

Less valuable, no.  Are you under the impression that the other 3/4 of football are meaningless?

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Less valuable, no.  Are you under the impression that the other 3/4 of football are meaningless?

The eagles only has 14points going into the 4th quarter v Bills

 

Was their offense the reason they lost to us😂😂😂

[Scott7975]

14 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

The eagles only has 14points going into the 4th quarter v Bills

 

Was their offense the reason they lost to us😂😂😂

 

No, our defense, special teams, and coaching was.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Scott7975

[GoBills808]

Right

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

No, our defense, special teams, and caoching was.

Right...so it didn't matter that the eagles scored a bunch of points in the 4th quarter as opposed to the rest of the game because clearly scoring late in games does not hurt your chances of winning

[Doc Brown]

On 11/30/2023 at 10:33 AM, Bermuda Triangle said:

Huh?

 

In the Minnesota game, the Bills went up 27-10 with 1:51 left in the 3rd quarter.  A mere 17 seconds later, Dalvin Cook ripped off an 81-yard TD run.  And we'll all remember the 4th and 18 Justin Jefferson catch, on which play I'm not sure exactly what Cam Lewis was doing.  Minnesota rolled up 480+ yards of offense.

 

In the Hail Murray game, the Bills went up 23-9 with 9:52 left in the 3rd quarter, and fell behind 23-26 before the end of the 3rd quarter.   AZ had 450+ yards of total offense.  

What happened to the offense in both of those games after going up early?  It's why we hear about complimentary football ad nauseam.  

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

What happened to the offense in both of those games after going up early?  It's why we hear about complimentary football ad nauseam.  

Lmfao

 

So scoring points late is bad, but also scoring points early is bad

[Doc Brown]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Lmfao

 

So scoring points late is bad, but also scoring points early is bad

Both are preferable.  The middle as well.

[GoBills808]

 

The only way the offense can be said to have played well is if they score a minimum of 30 points, per game, distributed evenly throughout each quarter 

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

Both are preferable.  The middle as well.

New to this football I see

[Governor]

On 11/30/2023 at 11:26 PM, BananaB said:

Guess McD should get on the phone and beg Leslie to come back

It’s the same defense. We’ve been losing this way for years. The difference is there’s less talent and aging players.

11 hours ago, JTown said:

I think that offensively yes they will.   Frankly,  I think that we will play Dallas very similar to the Seattle game last night.  I will not be surprised if McClappy allows Dallas to drive down the field for a game winning score.  I mean really,  how many times are we going to do this?  McClappy is NOT going to change his defensive strategy,  particularly late in the game.  Our only chance of beating Dallas is that they struggle offensively due to the weather. 

The answer is 5. He’s going to do it 5 more times.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Governor

[Doc Brown]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

The only way the offense can be said to have played well is if they score a minimum of 30 points, per game, distributed evenly throughout each quarter 

New to this football I see

Yes.  I want exactly 7.5 points per quarter.

[BobbyC81]

On 11/29/2023 at 7:00 PM, Mister Defense said:

Thank you for this, as I  had wanted to know this important information.

 

I thought this was the case, as I cannot recall this happening very much under Frazier, with mainly the KC  playoff game coming to mind.

 

And I cannot recall ever feeling like I do now, that the defense was going to allow some late in game or over time drives to blow the game.

 

A huge reason why McDermott will not be the DC next year, and in my view, why Frazier is once again leading the defense.

 

 

I still believe either:

 

1) Frazier was given the opportunity to walk away rather than be fired

or

2) McD wanted to make the defensive calls, so Frazier didn’t want to stick around

 

I don’t think Frazier returns.

[BobbyC81]

On 11/30/2023 at 5:27 AM, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Yup and until Frazier says differently I firmly believe McD called the defense for 13 seconds.  He called a defensive TO before both KC plays. 

 

Yep, the timeouts just added to my WTF reaction, especially the 2nd one.  You call a timeout to set up a defense where 2 defenders are in a zone and let Kelce run right between them to catch that pass?!

[Billsfan1972]

When you allow the opposing offennse to control the ball, rack up yards and convert 3rd downs the offense is feeling pressure when they finally get on the field.

[JTown]

2 hours ago, Governor said:

It’s the same defense. We’ve been losing this way for years. The difference is there’s less talent and aging players.

The answer is 5. He’s going to do it 5 more times.

Are you willing to wager money on your prediction?

 

I have a very expensive hobby and could use about 

8k for a new transmission. 

 

Dead serious. 

 

 

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, BobbyC81 said:

I still believe either:

 

1) Frazier was given the opportunity to walk away rather than be fired

or

2) McD wanted to make the defensive calls, so Frazier didn’t want to stick around

 

I don’t think Frazier returns.

I agree and it could be a mixture of both.  McDermott said he wants to take over play calling but wanted Frazier to remain on staff as a mentor to the player and advisor.  Frazier didn't want to give up the play calling so he resigned.  I don't even think there's any personal grudge between the two.  Just seems like the simplest explanation to me.

[Scott7975]

14 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Right

Right...so it didn't matter that the eagles scored a bunch of points in the 4th quarter as opposed to the rest of the game because clearly scoring late in games does not hurt your chances of winning

 

Your argument is that scoring 20 points on offense is fine, bro.  Philly scored 34 in regulation.  If the Bills scored 34 in either one of those games then your point would have merit because it obviously wouldn't have hurt them, but scoring only 20 and 25 did.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Scott7975

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Your argument is that scoring 20 points on offense is fine, bro.  Philly scored 34 in regulation.  If the Bills scored 34 in either one of those games then your point would have merit because it obviously wouldn't have hurt them, but scoring only 20 and 25 did.

Scoring 25 points against the Patriots beats them literally every single game this season other than when they dropped 29 on us. If you cannot conclude giving up 29 to Mac Jones is the primary reason we lost that game we can just drop this conversation because we will never agree

[FireChans]

On 11/29/2023 at 9:23 PM, Scott7975 said:

I seen these on twitter today.  Not sure if they have been posted somewhere here or not but I thought people would find them interesting

 

 

 

My favorite part of this post is that it completely invalidates the criticism of McD's defense PRIOR to this season, but we still hear that narrative that it's a consistent theme throughout his tenure.

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Scoring 25 points against the Patriots beats them literally every single game this season other than when they dropped 29 on us. If you cannot conclude giving up 29 to Mac Jones is the primary reason we lost that game we can just drop this conversation because we will never agree

Do you think that Dorsey deserved to get fired?  Honest question.

[NoSaint]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Scoring 25 points against the Patriots beats them literally every single game this season other than when they dropped 29 on us. If you cannot conclude giving up 29 to Mac Jones is the primary reason we lost that game we can just drop this conversation because we will never agree

listen, we just need the offense to score more than any other offense in the league for this defense to lead us to a championship 

[Scott7975]

23 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Scoring 25 points against the Patriots beats them literally every single game this season other than when they dropped 29 on us. If you cannot conclude giving up 29 to Mac Jones is the primary reason we lost that game we can just drop this conversation because we will never agree

 

Does it when you turn the ball over to them in your own territory twice?  There is more to offense than just scoring points.  They also have to take care of the football when they aren't scoring and try and move the ball more than 3 yards.

 

Point to me all the games the Patriots lost when the other team only scored 25 AND gave the Pats the ball twice on the other teams own side of the field.

 

The Denver game you also called the offense fine scoring 22 points while also turning the ball over 4 times.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Scott7975

[FireChans]

11 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

listen, we just need the offense to score more than any other offense in the league for this defense to lead us to a championship 

Scoring more TD's than TO's would've won us Denver/Jets.

 

Tough ask for our elite offense, I know.

[WotAGuy]

On 11/29/2023 at 10:05 PM, Chaos said:

It is always good to see the data. Confirms the eyeball test of every adult football fan with an IQ over 80.

This is offensive and deserves an apology. My IQ is well below 80 and I can see the decline!  

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 11/30/2023 at 8:36 AM, zow2 said:

McDermott seemed different in the weekly media sessions this week.  He seemed almost apologetic at times.  I'm sure he knows he is letting the team down as much as anyone.  

 

He better fix himself quick

 

 

[90sBills]

15 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Lmfao

 

So scoring points late is bad, but also scoring points early is bad

Not scoring enough points is bad. The offense has done that too many times this season. 

[Eastport bills]

If he can’t his side of the ball play well, why do they keep him and give him job security going forward? His team’s are penalized, undisciplined and not clutch. This roster, cap constraints and allegiance to people instead of winning describe a franchise in trouble.

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, WotAGuy said:

This is offensive and deserves an apology. My IQ is well below 80 and I can see the decline!  

I did not say all people with an IQ below 80 can't see the problem. 

[WotAGuy]

48 minutes ago, Chaos said:

I did not say all people with an IQ below 80 can't see the problem. 

On behalf of dumb people everywhere, I await your apology. 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

IT WAS ALL FRAZIER’S FAULT! 

[ganesh]

On 11/30/2023 at 9:23 AM, Scott7975 said:

 

 

Yeah, I am not sure if injuries are effecting that and maybe even age of some key players losing a step.  I'd love to see a video of someone breaking down the difference between Frazier and McD defense.  I know McD has been a bit more aggressive but I really do not know much of the differences and whats going on this year.

We have plenty of young players in Rosseau, Epenesa, Oliver etc out there... But injuries have robbed thsi defense a change...Jones, Milano, White.    Hyde and Poyer have been non-factors.  

[Billsfan1972]

5 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Does it when you turn the ball over to them in your own territory twice?  There is more to offense than just scoring points.  They also have to take care of the football when they aren't scoring and try and move the ball more than 3 yards.

 

Point to me all the games the Patriots lost when the other team only scored 25 AND gave the Pats the ball twice on the other teams own side of the field.

 

The Denver game you also called the offense fine scoring 22 points while also turning the ball over 4 times.

Every NE scoring Drive they moved the ball a minimum of 40 yards (63, 45, 40, 44, 66 & 75).  The two turnovers were pretty much at midfield.

 

Regardless Mac Jones drove them 75 yards to win the game.

 

Don't you dare praise the D or claim the offense was to blame. 

[PBF81]

On 11/30/2023 at 8:40 AM, uticaclub said:

He knows he's a dead man walking. Even if we go 5-0; we aren't making the playoffs. He had his opportunity with a generational QB and he blew it. You give Dick Jauron, Josh Allen at QB and he's not missing the playoffs

 

You give a lot of coaches Josh Allen and this team isn't missing the playoffs.  Imagine Allen in the NFCS or the AFCN for example.   Or even the NFCN.  Even in our current division.  Our division's been ridiculously easy from '20 to '22, last season.  Now it's one team tougher for the first time ever since Allen blossomed and look at our status, we're 2-1/2 games behind them, and they're good but hardly great.  In fact, this is the easiest season on Allen's watch to date where there's no single dominant team in the AFC, and we're in the outside looking in needing all kinds of help just to make the playoffs.  

 

A good coach would have this team at no less than 10-2 right now, possibly 11-1 ,and in line for the 1st Seed and a home playoff run.  

 

McD's specialty is supposed to be D, which looking at his average 17th Scoring D ranking at Carolina should have already been suspect before we ever hired him, but narratives are often formed accurate or not, but now take this, and given that he knows nothing about offense and if anything has the offense performing worse as well, not better than it should be, despite significant improvements, anyone questioning whether he should be in the role isn't being objective.  

 

As has been pointed out, he got here before Allen.  Suppose we drafted Allen first, and Allen got on his game, and we needed a coach.  Who in their right mind thinks that he would have even sniffed that short list of options.  

 

Whatever he's done here has been done.  People can give him the credit for whatever they want.  A "winning culture," ... [eyeroll];   "The Process,"... does anyone even know wtf that even is, ... making Buffalo a more liveable place, ... making the water in the Niagara River taste better, ... making wings the national food, but he's not adding anything at this point.  There's very little that he's adding from a performance perspective, his team is underachieving and has been regressing since "13-Seconds" to the extent that it's an embarassment for Buffalo.  He's subtracting and making things less, nor more, efficient.  

 

Who made McD the DC?  He did.  It wasn't whomever on the D staff is about to get fired, it was himself.  That was his decision entirely, not partially, and it's backfired in spades.  

 

He's been slowly giving himself enough rope to hang himself with, now he's got his hand on the lever of the gallows.  He's done this, no one else.  Some simply do not want to see that so they opt not to.  That doesn't change any of it.  That's their choice.  

 

I too am in the camp that doesn't believe that Pegula will fire him.  Who knows what makes Pegula tick.  It's respectable that he's got private family issues that are prioritized, but then he needs to hire someone to oversee what is in the best interests of the Bills.  So that's on him.  But he hired a head coach before hiring a GM. which is highly irregular and creates the very problem we're seeing now.  

 

Who knows what happens in KC, but if we end up losing to Dallas at home, the boos could be and should be heard in the Adirondacks.  

 

At some point this has to be effecting the players also and our ability to retain and sign them.  

 

Otherwise, here's some interesting info from data that I just ran, curious by this thread.  

 

One would expect a "defensive-minded head coach" to be able to at least be on top of his D.  Keep in mind that this is currently the 6th-ranked Scoring D.  

 

One would expect a top-ranked D like that to hold opponents to fewer than their average points scored in games.  However that is far from the case.  

 

For starters, the offenses that we've played are terrible.  Of the dozen, 8 rank 20th or worse, with Washington ranking 20th.  Only two rank better than 12th, Miami 2nd and Philly 4th.  

 

In half of our games our opponents scored more than their season average to date.  NE, Cincy, Philly, Jax, Denver and the Jets in the season opener.  

 

The other half of our games we held opponents to fewer than their season average to date.  Tampa, Raiders, Washington, Jets, Giants, and Miami.   Those teams after Miami currently rank 23rd, 27th, 20th, 30th, and 32nd in Scoring Offense respectively.  

 

That's McD's big achievement, being able to hold the worst offenses in the league, and MIami in a rogue game, to below their scoring averages.  

 

And that hardly means that it's been the top scoring teams to score more than their season averages against us.  The Jets and their 30th ranked scoring offense did, the Pats and their 31st ranked scoring offense, Jax and Denver with their 12th and 13th ranked scoring offenses, and Cincy and their 24th ranked scoring offense, which granted, was before Burrow's injury, but even there, our D allowed equal to or more points than 6 of Cincy's 9 other opponents with Burrow starting.  

 

The implications of that for playoff production, which fully matches recent playoff history, are damning.  

 

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by PBF81

[Scott7975]

56 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Every NE scoring Drive they moved the ball a minimum of 40 yards (63, 45, 40, 44, 66 & 75).  The two turnovers were pretty much at midfield.

 

Regardless Mac Jones drove them 75 yards to win the game.

 

Don't you dare praise the D or claim the offense was to blame. 

 

Dude this stems back a long series of comments where the other poster claims our offense was fine for both the NE and worse so the Denver game.  Sorry, but it wasn't.

[Billsfan1972]

11 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Dude this stems back a long series of comments where the other poster claims our offense was fine for both the NE and worse so the Denver game.  Sorry, but it wasn't.

The offense has been handcuffed by Dorsey & McD (not allowing Allen to run, bad play calling and McD's idea of complimentary football on the offensive side)

 

When the defense needs to make a stop late in the game, they've failed miserably every time this year.  

 

NYJ, Jax (500 yards), Cincy (as bad as they played there was a chance and they couldn't stop them), NE, Denver, Philly.....  

 

Are we going to celebrate them stopping the Giants and TB down the stretch?😜

[BananaB]

13 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Dude this stems back a long series of comments where the other poster claims our offense was fine for both the NE and worse so the Denver game.  Sorry, but it wasn't.

Offense was bad but when you take the lead with two minutes left you have done enough to win. Problem was our D could not make that final stand. After the Jets game a couple weeks ago I said we have serious problem with our 2 minute defense because right before half the Jets drove down the field with ease getting their only TD. McD gotta get this ***** figure out because it’s a bigger part to all our losses than just the O struggling. 

[Chaos]

29 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Offense was bad but when you take the lead with two minutes left you have done enough to win. Problem was our D could not make that final stand. After the Jets game a couple weeks ago I said we have serious problem with our 2 minute defense because right before half the Jets drove down the field with ease getting their only TD. McD gotta get this ***** figure out because it’s a bigger part to all our losses than just the O struggling. 

McDermott has already gone to the Bills playoff cailiber defense this season.

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The offense has been handcuffed by Dorsey & McD (not allowing Allen to run, bad play calling and McD's idea of complimentary football on the offensive side)

 

When the defense needs to make a stop late in the game, they've failed miserably every time this year.  

 

NYJ, Jax (500 yards), Cincy (as bad as they played there was a chance and they couldn't stop them), NE, Denver, Philly.....  

 

Are we going to celebrate them stopping the Giants and TB down the stretch?😜

 

I see you are back to arguing stuff people never said.  I said the offense was not fine those two games and it wasn't.  It doesn't matter the reason why.  I didn't say it was ok for the defense to give up a game winning drive.  I said the defense kept an offense that had multiple turnovers and couldn't move the ball until into the fourth quarter in the football game. 

 

I never spoke anything about the Giants game, the TB game, or the Philly game.  I talked specifically about those two games.  Are you going to now tell me the offense putting up 22 points and 25 points, turned the ball over 4 times and 2 times, and never really moved the ball for the first 3 quarters was fine?

 

Dude, you just make up these false arguments so that you can say stuff.  You can keep your cringe emojis to yourself too.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Scott7975

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

Offense was bad

Ok so the offense wasn't fine, like I said.

[Billsfan1972]

34 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I see you are back to arguing stuff people never said.  I said the offense was not fine those two games and it wasn't.  It doesn't matter the reason why.  I didn't say it was ok for the defense to give up a game winning drive.  I said the defense kept an offense that had multiple turnovers and couldn't move the ball until into the fourth quarter in the football game. 

 

I never spoke anything about the Giants game, the TB game, or the Philly game.  I talked specifically about those two games.  Are you going to now tell me the offense putting up 22 points and 25 points, turned the ball over 4 times and 2 times, and never really moved the ball for the first 3 quarters was fine?

 

Dude, you just make up these false arguments so that you can say stuff.  You can keep your cringe emojis to yourself too.

And again you're talking about teams that are not particularly good on offense. Controlling the ball against the Bills and Scoring above their season average and winning.

 

Sorry every loss has at the end of the day been because the defense did not make one-stop they needed. 

 

2×vs. Philly, NE, NYJ special teams, Denver.  Jax shredded the Defence the 4th and Cincy at least a shot if one stop at the end.

 

Oh and after week 4 how many ints have the defense had?  Fumbles are arbitrary and can go either way.

 

Answer 2 bs. NYJ and deflected pass vs. Philly.  

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Billsfan1972