AJE or Floyd?

[LabattBlue]

Come the offseason, cap only allows for one to be signed and assumes they will cost roughly the same $$$.  

 

Who do you want AJE or Floyd?

Edited November 28, 2023 by LabattBlue

[The Wiz]

Floyd

 

I like what AJE has turned into but Floyd has been an every game player.  AJE turns up every 2 or 3.

[KDIGGZ]

Floyd will be one of the hottest names in FA. This is apples to organges.

 

Maybe Von will do the right thing and retire so we can keep both.

[Blank Stare]

Floyd. Yes, he’s older and not home grown, but he’s simply the better player. AJE has impressed me with pulling his career from the ashes, but he may be the beneficiary of an otherwise strong line. 

[DrDawkinstein]

AJE.

 

I love Floyd, and really want to keep both, but he's too old to give big money if I have to choose just one. Learn our lesson from Von.

 

 

3 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Floyd will be one of the hottest names in FA. This is apples to organges.

 

Maybe Von will do the right thing and retire so we can keep both.

 

This would screw us SO HARD on the cap. All of his dead money hits if he retires. The Bills would beg him to stay active and just not show up. It would save us like $9M.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[BuffaloBillyG]

AJE

 

Love Floyd but he's getting older and as durable as he's been, the older a body gets the more susceptible to injury not becomes. 

 

I also think on the open market Floyd would get a much higher contract and would return a decent comp pick. 

[BuffaloBillies]

[KDIGGZ]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

This would screw us SO HARD on the cap. All of his dead money hits if he retires. The Bills would beg him to stay active and just not show up. It would save us like $15M.

 

I don't understand how the cap works. I would have thought the guy walks away on his own then we don't have that hit but guess not. I was thinking too bad Beane can't make Von Assistant to the GM so he walks away but I guess that doesn't solve the problem

[Matt_In_NH]

Floyd has a big void amount for next year that can be spread out if they resign him.   Plus he is the better player.

[Aussie Joe]

 

I think they are both gunna get paid some big dollars elsewhere next year…

 

Floyd came here to chase a ring on a “team friendly” deal… hasn’t exactly worked out …

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said:

I don't understand how the cap works. I would have thought the guy walks away on his own then we don't have that hit but guess not. I was thinking too bad Beane can't make Von Assistant to the GM so he walks away but I guess that doesn't solve the problem

 

I thought the same exact thing and was just schooled to the cap facts on this last week.

 

I thought a retirement wipes out any dead money since the player is walking away. But nope, it counts the same as a cut or trade and escalates everything to an immediate dead cap hit.

 

We would need Von to sign a completely new deal, retire on that, and then hire him as Asst to the Regional Manager.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Floyd will be one of the hottest names in FA.

 

He had 9 sacks and 59 tackles for a team with few pass rushing opportunities last year and had to settle for less than $10M on a 1 year deal($7M to play with Bills)........but you think he will be one of the hottest names in FA going into his age 32 season?   Seems doubtful.    He might get a 1-2 year deal averaging $10M or so but he's not going to be in the category of one of "the hottest names".   That is going to be reserved for deals worth $80M or more.  

[Yobogoya!]

17 minutes ago, BuffaloBillies said:

 

This looks oddly like what I'd expect my stat sheet to look like if I were a pro football defensive end. 

 

Ok, maybe not the solo tackle... But I could definitely get in on one assist. 😅

Edited November 28, 2023 by Yobogoya!

[MJS]

20 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Floyd will be one of the hottest names in FA. This is apples to organges.

 

Maybe Von will do the right thing and retire so we can keep both.

That would not help us...

[SCBills]

AJE can probably get done.  We can give him a 3-4 year deal and play cap games with his contract.  
 

Floyd would likely be a 2 year deal, without that wiggle room .. and, unless he loves it here and is willing to take a discount, has likely played his way to a big pay day we can’t afford.  
 

We also need to get younger on defense and paying big money to Floyd for a 2 year deal isn’t helping that. 
 

Coming off injury, DaQuan Jones may be affordable.   Re-sign him and AJE.   Bring back Shaq for cheap.   
 

Von, Rousseau, AJE, Shaq, Jonathan

 

Oliver, Jones

 

Draft a WR early and then load up on DT’s and DB’s as we take a machete to the Secondary outside Douglas & Benford.   Might not be popular, but letting Hyde walk, cutting Po, Tre & Johnson frees up about 18-19M, I believe.  Add in 4M from cutting Harty and we’re close to what we need to get under the cap.   

[MJS]

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I thought the same exact thing and was just schooled to the cap facts on this last week.

 

I thought a retirement wipes out any dead money since the player is walking away. But nope, it counts the same as a cut or trade and escalates everything to an immediate dead cap hit.

 

We would need Von to sign a completely new deal, retire on that, and then hire him as Asst to the Regional Manager.

Yep, it would screw us real bad if he retired.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

AJE can probably get done.  We can give him a 3-4 year deal and play cap games with his contract.  
 

Floyd would likely be a 2 year deal, without that wiggle room .. and, unless he loves it here and is willing to take a discount, has likely played his way to a big pay day we can’t afford.  
 

We also need to get younger on defense and paying big money to Floyd for a 2 year deal isn’t helping that. 
 

Coming off injury, DaQuan Jones may be affordable.   Re-sign him and AJE.   Bring back Shaq for cheap.   
 

Von, Rousseau, AJE, Shaq, Jonathan

 

Oliver, Jones

 

Draft a WR early and then load up on DT’s and DB’s as we take a machete to the Secondary outside Douglas & Benford.   Might not be popular, but letting Hyde walk, cutting Po, Tre & Johnson frees up about 18-19M, I believe.  Add in 4M from cutting Harty and we’re close to what we need to get under the cap.   

 

Agreed on 99.9% of this except for your mention of cutting Johnson. It would save us close to $8M, but I'd rather see us re-work his deal and give him another extension as opposed to cutting him outright. Another 3 year extension and he finishes his career as a Bill.

 

Throw Morse in there instead, that gets us that $8.5M back.

[KDIGGZ]

18 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

He had 9 sacks and 59 tackles for a team with few pass rushing opportunities last year and had to settle for less than $10M on a 1 year deal($7M to play with Bills)........but you think he will be one of the hottest names in FA going into his age 32 season?   Seems doubtful.    He might get a 1-2 year deal averaging $10M or so but he's not going to be in the category of one of "the hottest names".   That is going to be reserved for deals worth $80M or more.  

How many consistent double digits sacks guys will be available? My guess is 3 years 40-45 mil for Floyd

Edited November 28, 2023 by KDIGGZ

[BuffaloBillies]

6 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

This looks oddly like what I'd expect my stat sheet to look like if I were a pro football defensive end. 

 

Ok, maybe not the solo tackle... But I could definitely get in on one assist. 😅

 

Now do the math (or wait until end of year). How much is he paid per tackle? (calculate in per-half-tackle, I guess)

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said:

How many consistent double digits sacks guys will be available? My guess is 3 years 45-50 mil for Floyd

 

Brian Burns will be the biggest name out there.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/defensive-end//

 

24 minutes ago, BuffaloBillies said:

 

How is this relevant to this thread?

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Agreed on 99.9% of this except for your mention of cutting Johnson. It would save us close to $8M, but I'd rather see us re-work his deal and give him another extension as opposed to cutting him outright. Another 3 year extension and he finishes his career as a Bill.

 

Throw Morse in there instead, that gets us that $8.5M back.

Yea, i could go either way .. but do think one of them, maybe both, gets cut.  
 

Taron Johnson has been exposed a bit this season and while he’s still very good, I’m ok walking away if it means getting younger on defense while

funneling more resources to offense.  
 

Morse makes sense if we feel Bates is an adequate replacement at C, but then we’re also likely needing to draft a C on Day 2 if we’re serious about maintaining a strong OL for Allen.   And this OL has finally gotten right.. and Morse is still playing at a high level.  
 

Again though .. I could see one or both as surprise cuts …and if anyone heard Chris Brown yesterday on the morning show, he alluded to some potential surprises this off-season. 

[boyst]

AJE is a comp pick formula factor 

[RyanC883]

31 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Floyd will be one of the hottest names in FA. This is apples to organges.

 

Maybe Von will do the right thing and retire so we can keep both.

 

I have to imagine Von would be able to land a top analysist gig if he retires.  But I'm thinking he comes back.  He clearly wants to prove that he can beat this and be dominant again.  Can't really blame him for that.  

[boyst]

31 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

AJE.

 

I love Floyd, and really want to keep both, but he's too old to give big money if I have to choose just one. Learn our lesson from Von.

 

 

 

This would screw us SO HARD on the cap. All of his dead money hits if he retires. The Bills would beg him to stay active and just not show up. It would save us like $9M.

 

 

If the cost for AJE was fair then hell yes. 

 

I think he will be overpaid.

 

He can also offer a factor on the comp pick 

[RyanC883]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

Yea, i could go either way .. but do think one of them, maybe both, gets cut.  
 

Taron Johnson has been exposed a bit this season and while he’s still very good, I’m ok walking away if it means getting younger on defense while

funneling more resources to offense.  
 

Morse makes sense if we feel Bates is an adequate replacement at C, but then we’re also likely needing to draft a C on Day 2 if we’re serious about maintaining a strong OL for Allen.   And this OL has finally gotten right.. and Morse is still playing at a high level.  
 

Again though .. I could see one or both as surprise cuts …and if anyone heard Chris Brown yesterday on the morning show, he alluded to some potential surprises this off-season. 

 

McD being gone!!!

 

But I think personnel wise we have to part with Morse, we no longer (hopefully) need a vet center for JA.  Humphrey is doing well in KC.  Let's get the best one in the draft (likely in 2nd round).  WR, C, OL/WR, etc.  

[BuffaloBillies]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

How is this relevant to this thread?

 

A couple people were posting about whether Von should retire.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Yea, i could go either way .. but do think one of them, maybe both, gets cut.  
 

Taron Johnson has been exposed a bit this season and while he’s still very good, I’m ok walking away if it means getting younger on defense while

funneling more resources to offense.  
 

Morse makes sense if we feel Bates is an adequate replacement at C, but then we’re also likely needing to draft a C on Day 2 if we’re serious about maintaining a strong OL for Allen.   And this OL has finally gotten right.. and Morse is still playing at a high level.  
 

Again though .. I could see one or both as surprise cuts …and if anyone heard Chris Brown yesterday on the morning show, he alluded to some potential surprises this off-season. 

 

Good take.

 

My thing with Johnson, besides how well he's played for us over the years and the fact he's one of the few playmakers on D, is we are already gutting our DBs. No need to make yet another hole to fill there.

 

I'm ok going with Bates for a season, but wish we would've drafted Morse's replacement over the last 2 drafts.

 

*sheds a tear as I gently stroke my picture of Creed Humphrey*

 

Agreed that the OL is playing great this year.

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillies said:

 

A couple people were posting about whether Von should retire.

 

Ah, gotcha. And physically he should. But it would screw us financially.

[RyanC883]

30 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

AJE

 

Love Floyd but he's getting older and as durable as he's been, the older a body gets the more susceptible to injury not becomes. 

 

I also think on the open market Floyd would get a much higher contract and would return a decent comp pick. 

 

the Age is an issue.  he is 31.  AJE is 25.  Wish we could keep both.  I'm not sold that AJE is a guy that can do it on his own without a dominant line (perhaps he could, who knows!?). 

 

I'd almost rather do Floyd on a decent K, or let them both walk and use the savings for safety and draft DL LATER in the draft (or FA).  Perhaps another Floyd out there next year.  

[Your Brown Eye]

One will be 32 next year, one will be 26. I'll go with the younger player.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

 

the Age is an issue.  he is 31.  AJE is 25.  Wish we could keep both.  I'm not sold that AJE is a guy that can do it on his own without a dominant line (perhaps he could, who knows!?). 

 

I'd almost rather do Floyd on a decent K, or let them both walk and use the savings for safety and draft DL LATER in the draft (or FA).  Perhaps another Floyd out there next year.  

 

Hasnt AJE been part of that dominant line? There's only 4 guys out there at a time, and we'll have Oliver and Rousseau back. Maybe D Jones too, or another DT.

 

Who has been propping AJE up so much that wont be here next year?

[SCBills]

3 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

the Age is an issue.  he is 31.  AJE is 25.  Wish we could keep both.  I'm not sold that AJE is a guy that can do it on his own without a dominant line (perhaps he could, who knows!?). 

 

I'd almost rather do Floyd on a decent K, or let them both walk and use the savings for safety and draft DL LATER in the draft (or FA).  Perhaps another Floyd out there next year.  

 

Leonard Floyd has been good for a few years, but not THIS good.   He's absolutely dominant in Buffalo.   

 

AJE is a good DE3 with some continued upside.  If we can get him on a moderate DE3 contract over 3-4 years, I think that's doable for us financially.  Next year, we probably have to hope Von, fully recovered, is what Floyd is for us this year.  Hope is not a strategy, but cap-wise, that's where we're at. 

 

AJE as DE3 next year will still be playing on a DL with Von, Rousseau and Oliver... plus, if I had to guess, Daquan Jones and potentially an upgrade via the Draft at DT over Phillips/Settle/Joseph/Ford.

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by SCBills

[RyanC883]

Just now, SCBills said:

 

Leonard Floyd has been good for a few years, but not THIS good.   He's absolutely dominant in Buffalo.   

 

AJE is a good DE3 with some continued upside.  If we can get him on a moderate DE3 contract over 3-4 years, I think that's doable for us financially.  Next year, we probably have to hope Von, fully recovered, is what Floyd is for us this year.  Hope is not a strategy, but cap-wise, that's where we're at. 

 

so you are thinking that realistically we are out on Floyd?  I could see that.  I'm also good with a moderate contract of 3-4 for AJE, great complementary role player and you need those, but not a game changer himself.  

[Dablitzkrieg]

Do you want Floyd for 1 more good year or AJE for 5-7 more above-average years?

[RyanC883]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Hasnt AJE been part of that dominant line? There's only 4 guys out there at a time, and we'll have Oliver and Rousseau back. Maybe D Jones too, or another DT.

 

Who has been propping AJE up so much that wont be here next year?

 

that's a fair point.  I'd say Floyd and Oliver who are likely having the best years of their career.  Also L. Joseph (who I'd like back).  

Just now, Dablitzkrieg said:

Do you want Floyd for 1 more good year or AJE for 5-7 more above-average years?

 

it's a fantastic question.  All in, or extend the DL window.  I guess it depends on who comes back in addition to AJE.  Assuming that AJE costs less, if we can also get Greg for 5-7 years, and L. Joseph on the inside along with D. Jones, I'd lean to AJE.  If those parts are out, then I have to go more toward Floyd because we will be needing more top-line talent.  But perhaps AJE becomes a top guy.  Stop making my head hurt.  

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

 

so you are thinking that realistically we are out on Floyd?  I could see that.  I'm also good with a moderate contract of 3-4 for AJE, great complementary role player and you need those, but not a game changer himself.  

 

I just know we enter next year at roughly 29M over the cap and we need to get younger on Defense.  

 

Due to Floyd's age, we're probably not offering him a 3-4 year deal we could offer AJE, so it would probably be a 2 year deal at more AAV.  If both sides want to get it done, I'm sure we could figure it out.. just not sure Floyd's side would be willing to take less and the Bills side would be willing to play more cap games for another older player.  

[Bruffalo]

Ideally both but that seems unlikely.

 

I have no idea what AJE's market is going to look like. He's a good player but he's probably at the high end of those 3rd tier DEs. 

Floyd will probably command a biggish contract on a short deal. 

[boyst]

i'm starting to change my mind - i think i'd go AJE.

 

would we get any comp picks for Floyd?

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

so you are thinking that realistically we are out on Floyd?  I could see that.  I'm also good with a moderate contract of 3-4 for AJE, great complementary role player and you need those, but not a game changer himself.  

 

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

 

that's a fair point.  I'd say Floyd and Oliver who are likely having the best years of their career.  Also L. Joseph (who I'd like back).  

 

I think given a bigger role AJE could be a game changer. We've seen it already. How many other guys on our DL have INTs this year? Let alone a pick-6?

 

He's way more dynamic than, say, Shaq Lawson who is one of those complementary role players.

 

Rousseau/Oliver/???/AJE could be a great starting DL as long as we fill in that DT spot correctly. Whether that's Jones or a rookie or both.

[RyanC883]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

I think given a bigger role AJE could be a game changer. We've seen it already. How many other guys on our DL have INTs this year? Let alone a pick-6?

 

He's way more dynamic than, say, Shaq Lawson who is one of those complementary role players.

 

Rousseau/Oliver/???/AJE could be a great starting DL as long as we fill in that DT spot correctly. Whether that's Jones or a rookie or both.

 

Yeah I'm starting to come around to AJE now.  that DL should be very good.  Keep L. Joseph and D. Jones and AJE.   

[dpberr]

Neither, TBH.  in 2024, I'm beginning the reload for 2026.    

 

For Floyd, I'd never sign a 30+ year old player to anything but 1-year, incentive rich deals if I'm the GM.  (That goes for Daquan Jones too.)

 

AJE is in the Tremaine Edmunds camp for me - The Bills shouldn't be signing "the good but not great" players to long deals with sticky cap consequences.  AJE has attractive sack numbers but what you're paying for are Chris Jones-type game changing sacks.