Bills need a Ben Johnson led Offense

[Antonio]

They guy seems to understand the game very well, he feels the game and knows when to take chances or exactly when to throw some wrinkles or gadget plays. 

 

If we part ways with McD, I would love the next head coach to be him.

 

If we stay put I hope Dorsey takes a good look at how he calls the game, ver very intelligent game plan and adjustments. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Antonio

[Dablitzkrieg]

Wut?

[NewEra]

I agree, we need an improved offense.   But can Ben Johnson the OC run his offense while also being a good HC?  That’s the 2nd question.  Some one will find out next season.  
 

The first question is:  Will Ken Dorsey figure out how to turn this O around?  If he does, Ben Johnson won’t be a consideration in Buffalo because it’ll be McD and Dorsey once again.  
 

Be a fan of this team.  Focus on the task at hand.  Winning this season.  
 

or give up and focus on next year.  💩 

Edited November 13, 2023 by NewEra

[oldmanfan]

There is no way of knowing whether successful NFL coordinators can be successful HCs.  More times than not they aren't.

[Trogdor]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I agree, we need an improved offense.   But can Ben Johnson the OC run his offense while also being a good HC?  That’s the 2nd question.  Some one will find out next season.  
 

The first question is:  Will Ken Dorsey figure out how to turn this O around?  If he does, Ben Johnson won’t be a consideration in Buffalo because it’ll be McD and Dorsey once again.  
 

Be a fan of this team.  Focus on the task at hand.  Winning this season.  
 

or give up and focus on next year.  💩 

I thought watching and speculating was exactly what fans were supposed to do. ***** even the front office should be planning for the future. 

[Antonio]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

I agree.   But can Ben Johnson the OC run his offense while also being a good HC?  That’s the 2nd question.  Some one will find out next season.  
 

The first question is:  Will Ken Dorsey figure out how to turn this O around?  If he does, Ben Johnson won’t be a consideration in Buffalo because it’ll be McD and Dorsey once again.  
 

Be a fan of this team.  Focus on the task at hand.  Winning this season.  
 

or give up and focus on next year.  💩 

 

I´m a big fan, trust me. I will support the team, staff and players we have on hand. 

 

I was just watching the Lions game yesterday and oh boy... I love how he was calling the game. Dan also helps a lote, I think he fully trust him and lets him cook. 

 

It is also true that it might be difficult for a first time HC to also call plays, but I think it is possible. 

 

GO BILLS!!! Can´t wait for tonight!!

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

There is no way of knowing whether successful NFL coordinators can be successful HCs.  More times than not they aren't.

 

 

True, but you won´t know until you try it. 

Every HC was an assistant first and a first time HC. 

 

And I know it is nearly impossible we can bring him in, so I would love nothing more than Dorsey to figure things out quickly. 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Antonio said:

 

I´m a big fan, trust me. I will support the team, staff and players we have on hand. 

 

I was just watching the Lions game yesterday and oh boy... I love how he was calling the game. Dan also helps a lote, I think he fully trust him and lets him cook. 

 

It is also true that it might be difficult for a first time HC to also call plays, but I think it is possible. 

 

GO BILLS!!! Can´t wait for tonight!!

 

 

True, but you won´t know until you try it. 

Every HC was an assistant first and a first time HC. 

 

And I know it is nearly impossible we can bring him in, so I would love nothing more than Dorsey to figure things out quickly. 

If for some reason we let McD go them he might be attracted to come work with Josh.  But I don't think McD is going anywhere.  Dorsey maybe, but not McD.

[Antonio]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

If for some reason we let McD go them he might be attracted to come work with Josh.  But I don't think McD is going anywhere.  Dorsey maybe, but not McD.

 

Yeah BIF IF... but if it happens then he would be my first choice. 

 

I think we need to pair Allen to a Offenive Minded HC if we move on from McD.  

[NewEra]

Just now, Trogdor said:

I thought watching and speculating was exactly what fans were supposed to do. ***** even the front office should be planning for the future. 

Because we don’t know if Dorsey is going to figure this out.  This season isn’t over.  What this thread does, is insinuate that this team has zero shot to win this year.  Because if we did win this year, we most certainly wouldn’t be hiring Ben Johnson.  The thread puts Dorsey in the grave prematurely imo.  

 

don’t get me wrong…..I think there’s a better than 50% chance Dorsey gets the axe.  McD could suffer the same fate due to choosing Dorsey.  Which would make Ben Johnson a serious candidate and my first choice to run the show…..but I thought “fans” were supposed to back the current team.  We wait all offseason for this moment in time….and we’re talking about what will happen when this team fails. 
 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, Antonio said:

 

I´m a big fan, trust me. I will support the team, staff and players we have on hand. 

 

I was just watching the Lions game yesterday and oh boy... I love how he was calling the game. Dan also helps a lote, I think he fully trust him and lets him cook. 

 

It is also true that it might be difficult for a first time HC to also call plays, but I think it is possible. 

 

GO BILLS!!! Can´t wait for tonight!!

 

 

True, but you won´t know until you try it. 

Every HC was an assistant first and a first time HC. 

 

And I know it is nearly impossible we can bring him in, so I would love nothing more than Dorsey to figure things out quickly. 

I hear ya.  I love watching his offense for the most part.  Just not a fan of prematurely putting the current staff to rest before the season is over.  Mcdermott has earned enough of my trust to give him til the end of the season to see if he can right this ship. 

[Low Positive]

I actually would want the OC from Houston. He runs the Kyle Shanahan system. Do you like running plays? Look at the crazy variety that they run in that system: https://sumersports.com/the-zone/shanahan-schemes/

 

[Big Turk]

28 minutes ago, Antonio said:

They guy seems to understand the game very well, he feels the game and knows when to take chances or exactly when to throw some wrinkles or gadget plays. 

 

If we part ways with McD, I would love the next head coach to be him.

 

If we stay put I hope Dorsey takes a good look at how he calls the game, ver very intelligent game plan and adjustments. 

 

Look.  I don't care how good his offense is, being a coordinator and being a head coach are almost 2 completely different jobs.  One is 90% fully X's and O's and the other is maybe 5% X's and O's and the rest people, off-field issues, holding others accountable, delegating properly with knowing when to hand tasks off and knowing when you need to step in and take charge and other management related issues.  It's why so many coordinators are great at what they do but can't manage all the other parts of what they need to do as a head coach. It's like going from running a single store to being a CEO of a 5,000 store chain.

 

No different than how there are a lot of really great assistant managers who are awesome running the store for a few days while a manager is gone but then they get promoted to run their own store and all the other things like doing P&L's, inventory, ordering, etc that they never really had to be fully responsible for as an assistant or only did bits and pieces of it and they fail miserably.

 

He HAS to have the skills required as a HC first and foremost. No matter how good he is as an OC, he will fail miserably if he doesn't have the needed skills.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Big Turk

[Antonio]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Because we don’t know if Dorsey is going to figure this out.  This season isn’t over.  What this thread does, is insinuate that this team has zero shot to win this year.  Because if we did win this year, we most certainly wouldn’t be hiring Ben Johnson.  The thread puts Dorsey in the grave prematurely imo.  

 

don’t get me wrong…..I think there’s a better than 50% chance Dorsey gets the axe.  McD could suffer the same fate due to choosing Dorsey.  Which would make Ben Johnson a serious candidate and my first choice to run the show…..but I thought “fans” were supposed to back the current team.  We wait all offseason for this moment in time….and we’re talking about what will happen when this team fails. 
 

 

 

Not at all, it just happend that I was watching the game yesterday and felt envy with how the game was called.

 

Probably cause I´m not a Lions fan and I didn´t care if they converted or not all that much, but not once I thought "What are you doing?!" or "OMG that was horrible" regarding to playcalling. I even got some OMG moments, it was really nice to watch.

 

I want nothing more that Dorsey to succeed, I want to see Allen have fun again. We need 2021 Josh back, he needs to have fun playing.

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Look.  I don't care how good his offense is, being a coordinator and being a head coach are almost 2 completely different jobs.  One is 90% fully X's and O's and the other is maybe 5% X's and O's and the rest people, off-field issues, holding others accountable, delegating properly and other management related issues.  It's why so many coordinators are great at what they do but can't manage all the other parts of what they need to do as a head coach.

 

No different than how there are a lot of really great assistant managers who are awesome running the store for a few days while a manager is gone but then they get promoted to run their own store and all the other things like doing P&L's, inventory, ordering, etc that they never really had to be fully responsible for as an assistant or only did bits and pieces of it and they fail miserably.

 

He HAS to have the skills required as a HC first and foremost. No matter how good he is as an OC, he will fail miserably if he doesn't have the needed skills.

 

Then hire him as a HC and hire and assistant HC to take control of the rest of the stuff. 
 

[section122]

6 minutes ago, Antonio said:

 

I was just watching the Lions game yesterday and oh boy... I love how he was calling the game. Dan also helps a lote, I think he fully trust him and lets him cook. 

 

 

 

Johnson has had some amazing games called this year.   I'm not knocking him buuuuuuttttt.... (the rest of my post is tongue in cheek)

 

 

He did call a shotgun run on 4th and 5 yesterday.  It did work but oh boy I could imagine this place if dorsey did the same.

 

The Lions offense has scored exactly 1 more point than the Bills through 9 games.

 

The opening game, the Lions offense scored 14 points against the Chiefs.  A pick 6 was the difference.

 

The Ben Johnson led offense scored 6 points vs the Ravens.  

 

The Ben Johnson led offense scored 20 against the Bucs (Dorsey 24) and 26 against the Raiders (Dorsey 38)

 

and just for fun, the Bills have the hardest schedule in the NFL while the Lions have the 26th hardest. http://powerrankingsguru.com/nfl/strength-of-schedule.php

 

Just some food for thought....

 

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, Antonio said:

Then hire him as a HC and hire and assistant HC to take control of the rest of the stuff. 
 

 

You cannot be serious with that.  That's not how things work in life or any other job that I have ever been a part of. 

[Einstein]

I’ve been watching the Lions more and more just because of Ben Johnson.

 

His play calling is so darn creative and fun. And his spacing is beautiful.

 

We used to run similar concept to this with Daboll. I can’t recall the last time i’ve seen it:

 

 

 

[Chandler#81]

I give up. Wtf is a leed offense? 😳🤷‍♂️

[Antonio]

2 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

Johnson has had some amazing games called this year.   I'm not knocking him buuuuuuttttt.... (the rest of my post is tongue in cheek)

 

 

He did call a shotgun run on 4th and 5 yesterday.  It did work but oh boy I could imagine this place if dorsey did the same.

 

The Lions offense has scored exactly 1 more point than the Bills through 9 games.

 

The opening game, the Lions offense scored 14 points against the Chiefs.  A pick 6 was the difference.

 

The Ben Johnson led offense scored 6 points vs the Ravens.  

 

The Ben Johnson led offense scored 20 against the Bucs (Dorsey 24) and 26 against the Raiders (Dorsey 38)

 

and just for fun, the Bills have the hardest schedule in the NFL while the Lions have the 26th hardest. http://powerrankingsguru.com/nfl/strength-of-schedule.php

 

Just some food for thought....

 

 

Wow, I didn´t realize that. 

 

I also agree that we have played some tough defenses. 

 

But if you watched the game yesterday, tell me you didn´t think to yourself "oh boy... thats exactly whats Josh needs" That 4th down TD play to the TE was a think of beauty, called at a perfect time. Have you seen how he uses LaPorta? Poor Kincaid only runs 5 yards routs and I think he is much better and far more athletic than LaPorta. 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I’ve been watching the Lions more and more just because of Ben Johnson.

 

His play calling is so darn creative and fun. And his spacing is beautiful.

 

We used to run similar concept to this with Daboll. I can’t recall the last time i’ve seen it:

 

 

 

 

Dorsey is stale.  

[Antonio]

8 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

You cannot be serious with that.  That's not how things work in life or any other job that I have ever been a part of. 

 

Maybe hahaha 

 

Get yourself the job, let yourself call do what brought you the promotion and have somebody else handle the other stuff while you learn the in and outs. Then be Andy Reid hehehe. 

 

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

42 minutes ago, Antonio said:

They guy seems to understand the game very well, he feels the game and knows when to take chances or exactly when to throw some wrinkles or gadget plays. 

 

If we part ways with McD, I would love the next head coach to be him.

 

If we stay put I hope Dorsey takes a good look at how he calls the game, ver very intelligent game plan and adjustments. 

He’s 9 games in to his rookie year of being an OC. HC is one hell of a jump. 
 

I’d be much more interested next year, but even two seasons as an OC is tough. 

[Antonio]

5 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

I give up. Wtf is a leed offense? 😳🤷‍♂️

 

Sorry bad english...

 

Leed / lead / I don´t know how it is. 

 

What I wanted to post was... Bills need an offense just like the one Ben Johnson runs. 

[Prospector]

We do need some speed, and those Canadian steroids do help! But does that carry over to coaching?

[Einstein]

Just now, Antonio said:

 

Sorry bad english...

 

Leed / lead / I don´t know how it is. 

 

What I wanted to post was... Bills need an offense just like the one Ben Johnson runs. 

 

Everyone knew your meant led. They’re just being jerks.

[billieve420]

I think McDermott sticks around for at least another season. I could see Pegula making a move before the new stadium opens in 2026 if team continues to underperform. However, if/when there is a new HC it should be someone on the offensive side of the ball to pair with the QB. I do think despite what has been said that Dorsey is on the hot seat and could be fired in the offseason if team fails to turn things around.

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

Everyone knew your meant led. They’re just being jerks.

This board has not hit the point when Einstein is the most rational poster. I mean, even FiltyBeast made a post today that was more measured than all of the "Trade Josh Allen" posts on here this week.

[Antonio]

22 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I actually would want the OC from Houston. He runs the Kyle Shanahan system. Do you like running plays? Look at the crazy variety that they run in that system: https://sumersports.com/the-zone/shanahan-schemes/

 

 

I love a good running game, I hate the famous "delay hand off" with our speedy guy. Look how BJ uses Gibbs. 

 

I have not paid attention to Houston to be honest, but I will. 

 

Not that I´m looking forward to part ways with McD. I really would love for him to be THE ONE! The one that broke the drought, the one that brings the first Lombardy, etc... 

[section122]

8 minutes ago, Antonio said:

 

Wow, I didn´t realize that. 

 

I also agree that we have played some tough defenses. 

 

But if you watched the game yesterday, tell me you didn´t think to yourself "oh boy... thats exactly whats Josh needs" That 4th down TD play to the TE was a think of beauty, called at a perfect time. Have you seen how he uses LaPorta? Poor Kincaid only runs 5 yards routs and I think he is much better and far more athletic than LaPorta. 

 

 

I am impressed by the Lions.  One of my friends is a big fan so I try to watch when possible.  They have a much better oline and a much better rb room than the Bills.  Some of that is due to high draft picks being spent and they also made out like bandits when they traded Stafford.  

 

I have no ill will towards Johnson or the Lions I just think as you mentioned in a previous post, people don't live and die with other teams failures so they don't seem as big.  That shotgun run on 4th and 5 would spark an enormous thread on TSW for example even though it worked.

 

[Antonio]

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Everyone knew your meant led. They’re just being jerks.

Thanks!!
I really struggle with that one hehe.

11 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

He’s 9 games in to his rookie year of being an OC. HC is one hell of a jump. 
 

I’d be much more interested next year, but even two seasons as an OC is tough. 

 

It is a gamble, but someone will take it and could payoff very well. 

[Big Turk]

13 minutes ago, Antonio said:

 

Maybe hahaha 

 

Get yourself the job, let yourself call do what brought you the promotion and have somebody else handle the other stuff while you learn the in and outs. Then be Andy Reid hehehe. 

 

 

 

Not a chance in the bloody pit of Hades a team is going to hire a guy and pay him $6-8 million a year and then hire a "Nanny" for him on top of that because he is incompetent at 90% of the job.

[Antonio]

4 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

I am impressed by the Lions.  One of my friends is a big fan so I try to watch when possible.  They have a much better oline and a much better rb room than the Bills.  Some of that is due to high draft picks being spent and they also made out like bandits when they traded Stafford.  

 

I have no ill will towards Johnson or the Lions I just think as you mentioned in a previous post, people don't live and die with other teams failures so they don't seem as big.  That shotgun run on 4th and 5 would spark an enormous thread on TSW for example even though it worked.

 

 

True, I prolly have had a heart attack with that one. 

 

They do have that 1-2 punch a lot of teams envision.

10 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

I think McDermott sticks around for at least another season. I could see Pegula making a move before the new stadium opens in 2026 if team continues to underperform. However, if/when there is a new HC it should be someone on the offensive side of the ball to pair with the QB. I do think despite what has been said that Dorsey is on the hot seat and could be fired in the offseason if team fails to turn things around.

 

I fully expect a change at OC during the offseason. 

 

Love McD but he needs to be better at game management. That challenge was ridiculous. 

[TheWeatherMan]

21 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

Johnson has had some amazing games called this year.   I'm not knocking him buuuuuuttttt.... (the rest of my post is tongue in cheek)

 

 

He did call a shotgun run on 4th and 5 yesterday.  It did work but oh boy I could imagine this place if dorsey did the same.

 

The Lions offense has scored exactly 1 more point than the Bills through 9 games.

 

The opening game, the Lions offense scored 14 points against the Chiefs.  A pick 6 was the difference.

 

The Ben Johnson led offense scored 6 points vs the Ravens.  

 

The Ben Johnson led offense scored 20 against the Bucs (Dorsey 24) and 26 against the Raiders (Dorsey 38)

 

and just for fun, the Bills have the hardest schedule in the NFL while the Lions have the 26th hardest. http://powerrankingsguru.com/nfl/strength-of-schedule.php

 

Just some food for thought....

 

The lions OC is making their average Joe QB look like a top 5 QB.  Our OC is making a top 2 QB led offense look like the Giants offense from last night.  I know there’s more skill player athleticism on the Lions, but still our O is the worse it’s looked in 4+ years.  Honestly, Fitzmagic and Stevie Johnson under Chans offense were more exciting to watch than this unit 🤮 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Goff is flourishing under Johnson.

 

Imagine what Josh would do.

[Antonio]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Not a chance in the bloody pit of Hades a team is going to hire a guy and pay him $6-8 million a year and then hire a "Nanny" for him on top of that because he is incompetent at 90% of the job.

 

I know, I'm just messing around. But you do know that the Assistant HC position exist right?!

 

I don't know what they do or what their responsibilities are.

1 minute ago, TheWeatherMan said:

The lions OC is making their average Joe QB look like a top 5 QB.  Our OC is making a top 2 QB led offense look like the Giants offense from last night.  I know there’s more skill player athleticism on the Lions, but still our O is the worse it’s looked in 4+ years.  Honestly, Fitzmagic and Stevie Johnson under Chans offense were more exciting to watch than this unit 🤮 

Sad but true. The 3-4 games have been horrendous. Chan was a nice OC for us honeslty, he was very creative as well.  

[Low Positive]

6 minutes ago, Antonio said:

 

I love a good running game, I hate the famous "delay hand off" with our speedy guy. Look how BJ uses Gibbs. 

 

I have not paid attention to Houston to be honest, but I will. 

 

Not that I´m looking forward to part ways with McD. I really would love for him to be THE ONE! The one that broke the drought, the one that brings the first Lombardy, etc... 

You made me look something up. The Lions only ran 42% of their plays from the shotgun yesterday. The league average last season was 66%. They also had great balance, with 26 rushing attempts by RBs and 33 passing attempts. I didn't watch the game, so I'm just going on stats and the play sheet on NFL.com. That shows a play-caller in control of a game who didn't abandon the run. But then again, the Lions never trailed in that game.

[DCofNC]

They system they run on O would be absolutely awesome here, imagine a running game for 1, and picture Diggs in the St. Brown role, Kincaid as LaPorta and of course Allen as QB.  Play action opening up deep shots.. what a concept.

[Antonio]

1 minute ago, FrenchConnection said:

You made me look something up. The Lions only ran 42% of their plays from the shotgun yesterday. The league average last season was 66%. They also had great balance, with 26 rushing attempts by RBs and 33 passing attempts. I didn't watch the game, so I'm just going on stats and the play sheet on NFL.com. That shows a play-caller in control of a game who didn't abandon the run. But then again, the Lions never trailed in that game.

 

Their running game helps them to be balanced, and the snaps under center I think helps the RBs and keeps the D honest. 

 

They never trailed, but the Chargers were always there, pressing and right behind them. And then this happened:

 

... Game tide at 38. 4th and 2, field goal distance reached (ball at the LAC 26) kick that FG and you go up by 3 but you leave the Chargers 1:40 minutes to tie or win the game... Dan Campbell gambels and goes fo it. (Fully trusting Ben to call the right play). There is no way McD trust Dorsey to win the game.  

[DCofNC]

30 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

I think McDermott sticks around for at least another season. I could see Pegula making a move before the new stadium opens in 2026 if team continues to underperform. However, if/when there is a new HC it should be someone on the offensive side of the ball to pair with the QB. I do think despite what has been said that Dorsey is on the hot seat and could be fired in the offseason if team fails to turn things around.

I suspect McTeflon will stay another year, but he should have been fired after last season, so maybe one more complete washout here gets it done.  Something is going on behind the scenes, I have a feeling it gets REAL ugly in the off-season.  I would love to see a house cleaning and a re-set year.   Wasting Allen like this is criminal.

[DJB]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

There is no way of knowing whether successful NFL coordinators can be successful HCs.  More times than not they aren't.

Well if you don’t try old man how will

we ever know?