HOW TIMES HAVE CHANGED

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, stinky finger said:

The problem is, not once has it happened in a meaningful playoff scenario.

 

It didn't?  What do you consider a meaningful playoff scenario? Against the Chiefs he masterfully took the lead back in the game two drives in a row.  The last leaving the team 13 seconds to win the damn game.  No defense should ever give up a score with 13 seconds to go and the field to drive.  Ever.  Thats not on Josh.  Josh won us that game.  McDermott and his defense lost it.

[SoonerBillsFan]

6 hours ago, Stroke 17 said:

Being a 50 year season ticket holder I have seen the good, the bad, the ugly, the very good and the very bad. In the years after the Super Bowls and the team was mediocre, at best, I attended and watched the games with the high hopes of the Bills upsetting a good team or winning against other average teams. I always thought "on any given Sunday" the Bills would pull off the upset. 

Now that we are (supposedly ) one of the better teams each week has me thinking that the other team thinks like I used to think, unfortunately this year it is coming true for them too often, I am just so frustrated with the game day coaching, the poor play and the excuses. I realize our defense is decimated but they are doing a fairly good job but our so called high flying offense from past years is crazy bad, bar a few drives a GAME.

 

Watching games today and seeing teams like the Pats, Jags ,Bengals and the Giants  I can't  help but wonder how the hello they got beat or almost beat by those teams. Dare I say it can only be coaching. That gives me little hope going forward. However, being the eternal optimist I have changed my expectations from expecting a win against inferior teams to, maybe the Bills can pull off a few upsets against good teams and play the bad or average teams close in spite of the coaching.

GO BILLS

THEY'RE KILLIN ME WHITEY, THEY'RE KILLIN ME

It is coaching.  A HC who is offensively minded with a WCO base scheme and a DC who has a more attacking 4-3 and I don't know if this team has a loss considering who we have played and lost to.

[JerseyBills]

9 hours ago, Stroke 17 said:

Being a 50 year season ticket holder I have seen the good, the bad, the ugly, the very good and the very bad. In the years after the Super Bowls and the team was mediocre, at best, I attended and watched the games with the high hopes of the Bills upsetting a good team or winning against other average teams. I always thought "on any given Sunday" the Bills would pull off the upset. 

Now that we are (supposedly ) one of the better teams each week has me thinking that the other team thinks like I used to think, unfortunately this year it is coming true for them too often, I am just so frustrated with the game day coaching, the poor play and the excuses. I realize our defense is decimated but they are doing a fairly good job but our so called high flying offense from past years is crazy bad, bar a few drives a GAME.

 

Watching games today and seeing teams like the Pats, Jags ,Bengals and the Giants  I can't  help but wonder how the hello they got beat or almost beat by those teams. Dare I say it can only be coaching. That gives me little hope going forward. However, being the eternal optimist I have changed my expectations from expecting a win against inferior teams to, maybe the Bills can pull off a few upsets against good teams and play the bad or average teams close in spite of the coaching.

GO BILLS

THEY'RE KILLIN ME WHITEY, THEY'RE KILLIN ME

We'll have a chance every week. There's no team we can't beat. 

[PBF81]

11 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

I get what you are saying but is the current situation this bad for corporate sales? 

 

Interesting point there.  Maybe it is all about the corporate sales now.  

 

Maybe not.  

 

 

11 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

You think they care as much as us? 

 

Pegula said he's counting on the PSL revenue to carry a good chunk of "his" share of the cost.  

 

 

11 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

Also, you think they are gonna be a dumpster team next year? 

 

They'll never be a "dumpster" as long as Allen's on the team.  But make no mistake, this can easily turn into a team with Chargers or Bengals type appeal with Rivers or Dalton.  

 

It already seems that we're tracking for that, which is tragic given Allen.  

 

It comes with having a fanbase as passionate as ours is.  We don't settle for underachieving mediocrity.  

 

During the Super Bowl years, playoff tickets weren't at all difficult to come by at face or less in the last season or two of our playoff run.  

 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by PBF81

[PBF81]

7 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

 

Well I think you have a good point in Josh requesting it. And I agree at this point it seems we need someone better. 

 

I get what you are saying but is the current situation this bad for corporate sales?  You think they care as much as us?  Also, you think they are gonna be a dumpster team next year? 

 

And BTW, what should be indisputable is that it's not going to help.  

 

Also, keep in mind, that before this implosion, numerous longtime STHs even here have said that they're not renewing.

 

Remember, the prices are going to be approx double, and there will be pricey PSLs.  

 

Even if you sell the corporates, you don't want half empty seats.  

 

We'll see what happens there.  I am s little surprised that the ticket sales process hasn't already begun.  

 

 

9 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

McDermott was hired to make the playoffs and end the 17 year drought.  He’s accomplished that and we’ve been a legit  contender since 2020.  Like it or not the Bills aren’t an organization that demands championships.  Only way McDermott isn’t back next year is if Josh goes to Pegula  and demands a change.  

 

We'll see if we finish with a worse record than some of our drought era teams.  

 

Even equal isn't a good look.  

 

It's also not a good look when many of our fans are going for that exactly so that McD will get fired.  I've now interested with a number of fans hoping for that.  

 

At the end of the day, a coach admitting, several times now, that he has no idea how to get anything more than mediocrity from an Allen-led offense more or less dug his own grave.

 

Don't blame me or any other posters, he did it.  We're simply reacting.  

 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by PBF81

[Since1981]

same as CEOs. There are the inventors, visionaries like Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos. Then there are the accounting finance CEOs—that take over because they manage current stuff well. McDermott is our mgr accountant. 

[Bobby Hooks]

11 hours ago, Stroke 17 said:

Being a 50 year season ticket holder I have seen the good, the bad, the ugly, the very good and the very bad. In the years after the Super Bowls and the team was mediocre, at best, I attended and watched the games with the high hopes of the Bills upsetting a good team or winning against other average teams. I always thought "on any given Sunday" the Bills would pull off the upset. 

Now that we are (supposedly ) one of the better teams each week has me thinking that the other team thinks like I used to think, unfortunately this year it is coming true for them too often, I am just so frustrated with the game day coaching, the poor play and the excuses. I realize our defense is decimated but they are doing a fairly good job but our so called high flying offense from past years is crazy bad, bar a few drives a GAME.

 

Watching games today and seeing teams like the Pats, Jags ,Bengals and the Giants  I can't  help but wonder how the hello they got beat or almost beat by those teams. Dare I say it can only be coaching. That gives me little hope going forward. However, being the eternal optimist I have changed my expectations from expecting a win against inferior teams to, maybe the Bills can pull off a few upsets against good teams and play the bad or average teams close in spite of the coaching.

GO BILLS

THEY'RE KILLIN ME WHITEY, THEY'RE KILLIN ME

100% agree. I have had generations of butterflies populating in my gut since 1988 when I first started watching the Bills. They made it through everything. Wide right, music city, countless terrible qbs and teams. I’m in a weird place right now. It appears this team has killed those butterflies. I don’t know if it’s age, life, not sure. But I dont wake up on gameday feeling them. 
 

Even worse, i’ve been falling asleep at halftime during primetime games. I don’t have that nervous excitement that would keep me awake and eyes peeled like the past. Not sure if this is just a phase or what, but I don’t like it one bit. Almost feels to me like the team doesn’t seem to care, so why should I? 
 

 

[dorquemada]

55 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

And BTW, what should be indisputable is that it's not going to help.  

 

Also, keep in mind, that before this implosion, numerous longtime STHs even here have said that they're not renewing.

 

Remember, the prices are going to be approx double, and there will be pricey PSLs.  

 

Even if you sell the corporates, you don't want half empty seats.  

 

We'll see what happens there.  I am s little surprised that the ticket sales process hasn't already begun.  

 

 

 

We'll see if we finish with a worse record than some of our drought era teams.  

 

Even equal isn't a good look.  

 

It's also not a good look when many of our fans are going for that exactly so that McD will get fired.  I've now interested with a number of fans hoping for that.  

 

At the end of the day, a coach admitting, several times now, that he has no idea how to get anything more than mediocrity from an Allen-led offense more or less dug his own grave.

 

Don't blame me or any other posters, he did it.  We're simply reacting.  

 

 

 

Agree strongly with all of this.  The malpractice here is that this team could be and nearly was great but we have a complete narcissist as HC who wants to turn what could be THe Greatest Show on Turf into what?   A team that grinds out first downs 3 yards at a time?  wtf is that?  And Beane on top of that who continues to extremely over-leverage on Defense with nothing to show for it except a geriatric injury riddled middling unit

[Maynard]

This team is coached so poorly, I expect us to lose (that very much includes Denver tonight). The change in my mentality this season makes watching the games bearable and less stressful. No more getting pissed off and letting it ruin my day/week.
 

Serenity now, insanity later!
 

 

 

[stuvian]

We still have no credible run threat. Our OL can't run block. Watching our former players Moss and Singletary succeeding elsewhere brought this home. Yet we keep collecting RBs thinking that this is the missing ingredient. Watching the Lions OL assert their will in the run game has made everyone forget what a mediocre QB Jared Goff is.

 

You can keep saying we're not built for that but what are built for - a track meet? Josh still gets beat up most games. So we don't pass protect that well and don't run block that well. Seeing the pocket that CJ Stroud threw from brought this home. If your opponent knows you don't have a run game, your QB is going to pay for it. Admit it - Josh Allen is still our best running threat.

 

When we rushed 5 and 6 defenders and still couldn't pressure Burrow it screams failure of scheme or failure of personnel. I know the Bengals are among the best teams but the Texans got to him enough times to make him think. Our D never touched him in the last two outings.

 

Our defense during the Clappy era is just average. I know we're in the era of rules favouring offense and scoring but opposing running backs usually have their way with us as well. Our secondary makes plays from time to time but we do not consistently generate a pass rush. Our tackling has been mediocre the last few years. If we can't consistently stop opposing teams that means we have to score on nearly every drive. 

 

We are long into the Clappy - Beane regime. Does anyone see evidence of a culture of excellence or playing with passion? It pains me to say it but I do not.

 

With the exception of the Miami game, we're playing flat - always lowering our level of play to that of our opponent. This team reminds me of the Marino era Dolphins -  a mediocre overpaid team that always relied on their franchise QB to perform miracles to bail them out.

 

Please, no whining about injuries. Great organizations (KC, Philly, Pittsburgh) have understudies prepared to play.

 

When I see us lose to the hapless Patriots and play down to the level of the Giants, I see a team that doesn't believe in its leadership anymore.

 

Whether it's fair or not, if Clappy has lost the locker room, the regime has to go.

 

Yes, there's still time to salvage the season and the window of opportunity but we need to see it yesterday.

[Dan Darragh]

12 hours ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

When was the last time the Bills exceeded expectations?

Lost by 1 point to the '72 "perfect" Dolphins. That's 51 years ago.

[stinky finger]

7 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

It didn't?  What do you consider a meaningful playoff scenario? Against the Chiefs he masterfully took the lead back in the game two drives in a row.  The last leaving the team 13 seconds to win the damn game.  No defense should ever give up a score with 13 seconds to go and the field to drive.  Ever.  Thats not on Josh.  Josh won us that game.  McDermott and his defense lost it.

Completely agree here.

 

Problem for me is - it happened in a loss. I can’t take solace in a magnificent offensive performance in a loss. 

[nedboy7]

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Interesting point there.  Maybe it is all about the corporate sales now.  

 

Maybe not.  

 

 

 

Pegula said he's counting on the PSL revenue to carry a good chunk of "his" share of the cost.  

 

 

 

They'll never be a "dumpster" as long as Allen's on the team.  But make no mistake, this can easily turn into a team with Chargers or Bengals type appeal with Rivers or Dalton.  

 

It already seems that we're tracking for that, which is tragic given Allen.  

 

It comes with having a false ass passionate as ours is.  We don't settle for understanding mediocrity.  

 

During the Super Bowl years, playoff tickets weren't at all difficult to come by at face or less in the last season or two of our playoff run.  

 

 

 

You twist everything to an extreme.  Just a very weird way to reason.  Yes it's all about corporate sales now.  They will keep selling tickets while JA is playing. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

13 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

For McDermott,  the first red flag was the Houston game. Then 3 more playoff exits , including the 13 sec debacle. Then when we practically lost to the Giants this year, it was the last straw. I've seen enough.  There won't be a "next level" for McDermott.  He continues to fire the people he hires.  Dorsey will undoubtedly be next.  Besides Josh & Diggs, this team desperately needs better coaching...smarter decisions & play calling.  I get the relentless love affair with McD.  He pulled us out of the bowels of the drought.  But even a great administrator can only turn an organization around to a point.  The offense this year is a mess. Josh has way too many people in his head.  And Sean had every opportunity for 6 years to build a monster offense.  But he chose to emphasize the D.  The same D that's failed us in 4 straight playoff exits.  

Nice post LA.  You always see things for what they are.  The game has passed McDermott by.  Our offense has lost a lot of its juice.  The coaching is certainly not cutting edge.  And has not gotten nearly the best out of Josh Allen. 
 

The Giants Patriots and Jaguars’ games were unacceptable.  We were ill prepared against all 3 teams.  And almost gave away the Bucs game w conservative coaching at the end.  Heck we were not prepared on offense to play the Jets opening week.  
 

We had our window from 2020-2022.  That window is closing fast.  Need some new blood around the team and Josh Allen. An aggressive offensive minded coach who coaches w passion.  
 

When teams like the Texans are playing better then us, things have to change. 

[PBF81]

34 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

You twist everything to an extreme.  Just a very weird way to reason.  Yes it's all about corporate sales now.  They will keep selling tickets while JA is playing. 

 

Once again, it wasn't my point, numerous others here have laid out out.  

 

As to selling Tix, don't take that up with me, take it to with the numerous people that are STHs here alone, that have already said that they're bailing, ... before this season even played out.  I didn't say it, they did.  

 

Great that you think that this level of play isn't going to impact ticket sales at twice current pricing plus PSLs.  

 

Is it OK if others disagree with you?  Or not?  Just to clarify what you're allowing in the forum.  

 

Talk about extreme, one more post and I'd strongly suggest implications of stalking me.  

 

😉

 

 

[Chandler#81]

Along the lines of how times have changed in pro football, here’s a classic No Whippersnappers will comprehend. Ya had to live it!

Heidi

 

https://x.com/kevg163/status/1723867386028167317?s=61

[Marcus Aurelius]

1 hour ago, Dan Darragh said:

Lost by 1 point to the '72 "perfect" Dolphins. That's 51 years ago.

Oh man, I remember that.

[Dr Divit]

1 hour ago, stinky finger said:

Completely agree here.

 

Problem for me is - it happened in a loss. I can’t take solace in a magnificent offensive performance in a loss. 

With 3 consecutive defensive holding calls on Hill/ Kelsey we would have of won. 

[RyanC883]

14 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

The Bills play really well when they have an axe to grind. 

 

until the playoffs.  

55 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Nice post LA.  You always see things for what they are.  The game has passed McDermott by.  Our offense has lost a lot of its juice.  The coaching is certainly not cutting edge.  And has not gotten nearly the best out of Josh Allen. 
 

The Giants Patriots and Jaguars’ games were unacceptable.  We were ill prepared against all 3 teams.  And almost gave away the Bucs game w conservative coaching at the end.  Heck we were not prepared on offense to play the Jets opening week.  
 

We had our window from 2020-2022.  That window is closing fast.  Need some new blood around the team and Josh Allen. An aggressive offensive minded coach who coaches w passion.  
 

When teams like the Texans are playing better then us, things have to change. 

 

Add Detroit to surprising teams playing MUCH better than us.  Heck, Minnesota lost its starting QB, got aggressive after Dobbs, likely also playing better than us.  

[Utah John]

The main reason the Bills are struggling this year is that they've lost half their defense to injuries.  Plain and simple.  The Bills D was built around the unique talents of Milano, and also relied on half a dozen other excellent players, all of whom are sidelined.  

 

The problems with the offense are largely due to coaching.  Other teams figured out how to slow or stop Josh, and they all copy-cat those approaches.  It's up to Dorsey to figure out how to recognize and attack the opposing defenses when they try that.  

[Mr. WEO]

15 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

This will trigger lots of fans, but I think part of it is Bills fans got entitled.

 

We are coming off a 10, 13, 11, and 13 win season. We witnessed greatness, flat out dominance at times over that run. We spanked big names, in prime time, in their houses on many occasions. 
 

 

 

 

Chiefs fans don't seem to have this problem...

[Paup 1995MVP]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

 

until the playoffs.  

 

Add Detroit to surprising teams playing MUCH better than us.  Heck, Minnesota lost its starting QB, got aggressive after Dobbs, likely also playing better than us.  

I agree on both.  Was only thinking the AFC in my earlier post.   I was in Detroit this weekend for the Metallica shows. 🤘🤘And the town is all fired up about the Lions.  As they should be. 

[ProcessTruster]

16 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

At least that's become clear.  

 

Now the ball is in Pegula's court.  

 

There's definitely a pall hovering over our fanbase.  

 

The situation isn't the best marketing approach for selling pricey seats & PSLs for the new stadium. 

 

 

pricey seats and PSLs are going to be an issue in any scenario, bad or good. 

 

I can see the lower bowl of the new stadium being a lot like the Sabres arena for Leafs games, 50% opposing team fans. 

 

Longtime lower bowl HighMark season tikt holders will pay for the PSLs and seat prices, then turn around and sell half the season for $500 per seat to cover their costs (at least some of them) just as they do to a more limited extent today .   Go to 3-5 games per year (Phins, playoff and other marquee NFC game)s and sell the rest to the opposition.   

 

It's going to happen.   they'll be calling it "Sofi-East Stadium".  You are already seeing it around the NFL.. so many retirees travelling to away games more and more.   Vegas, Miami, Sofi (of course the leader), Nashville.  Hard to tell who the home team is.  a little sad I think.   I was at the Bills / Commanders here last month and 50% of the lower bowl was red, white and blue, which was cool for a bills fan, but a little sad that local ticket holders are dumping to cover their outrageous season tkt prices. 

 

I think Pegs caved to the League a few years too soon with the new stadium.   Maybe its just me.   Maybe the PSLs and game tkts won't be as expensive as some other places.   Can't tell right now.   Maybe Pegs can run his own tkt resale operation and only sell to NY addresses.  or something

Edited November 13, 2023 by ProcessTruster

[stinky finger]

15 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

The Bills play really well when they have an axe to grind. 

 
Cincy last week? It was a great opportunity. 
 

Jets next week will be another axe grinder. I’m hoping their D doesn’t intimidate us again. 

[nedboy7]

Every week people are in shock that a worse record team beat a better record team.  As if they have no idea how the NFL works. 

[Bad Things]

You needed to start a new thread on this, just so we can hear you whine?

C’mon, it’s friggin game day!

 

Lets go Buffalo!

[brianthomas]

The problem is us guys. After decades of being synonymous with losing, we have a few winning seasons & as BILLS fans we're all feeling entitled now? Raise your hand if this is one of you. Its our fault for expecting, no demanding an honest hard working team that doesnt embarrass us on Sundays & a team which is as hardworking as the community it represents. If that is me being entitled than i guess I am? While winning & losing may be the only thing that matters to your record, for me its how we lose that frustrates me the most... and who we've lost to.

An offensive scheme with progressions that make no sense. Playcalling that doesnt put your players in the best position to succeed. Players/coaches losing focus at crucial moments. A QB that looks lost, heck the whole team & coach look lost. Penalties & turnovers & self-made mistakes. The players loss of composure & confidence when any adversity occurs in game. From a higher level: 2 years in a row where our aging defense is decimated with injuries, perhaps we need to get younger?

Poor drafting, poor coaching hires, poor contract extensions etc.

But its our fault for being entitled haha. We're just a witness to this bs, we dont have as much of an impact on the team's success or failures as one may think.

 

Even if we were entitled (which i dont think we are, given we're BILLS fans & all we've endured) it wouldnt change the fact that this team has major issues & we're all simply witnesses to it.

[PBF81]

26 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

pricey seats and PSLs are going to be an issue in any scenario, bad or good. 

 

I can see the lower bowl of the new stadium being a lot like the Sabres arena for Leafs games, 50% opposing team fans. 

 

Longtime lower bowl HighMark season tikt holders will pay for the PSLs and seat prices, then turn around and sell half the season for $500 per seat to cover their costs (at least some of them) just as they do to a more limited extent today .   Go to 3-5 games per year (Phins, playoff and other marquee NFC game)s and sell the rest to the opposition.   

 

It's going to happen.   they'll be calling it "Sofi-East Stadium".  You are already seeing it around the NFL.. so many retirees travelling to away games more and more.   Vegas, Miami, Sofi (of course the leader), Nashville.  Hard to tell who the home team is.  a little sad I think.   I was at the Bills / Commanders here last month and 50% of the lower bowl was red, white and blue, which was cool for a bills fan, but a little sad that local ticket holders are dumping to cover their outrageous season tkt prices. 

 

I think Pegs caved to the League a few years too soon with the new stadium.   Maybe its just me.   Maybe the PSLs and game tkts won't be as expensive as some other places.   Can't tell right now.   Maybe Pegs can run his own tkt resale operation and only sell to NY addresses.  or something

 

Yeah, we'll see how it shakes out.  

 

While our PSLs and prices will likely be lower than elsewhere, according to the surveys etc., they're still going to be twice or so what they are now, again, plus those PSLs.  Which is high for our region.  

 

Either way, when it comes up, many people here that have been long-time STHs say that they're not going to be renewing under those circumstances.  But the point was that the way we're playing certainly isn't positive marketing for those sales.  If it were going to persuade or disuade someone from buying, clearly it would seem to be the latter.  That's all I'm saying.  

 

 

[stinky finger]

2 hours ago, Utah John said:

The main reason the Bills are struggling this year is that they've lost half their defense to injuries.  Plain and simple.  The Bills D was built around the unique talents of Milano, and also relied on half a dozen other excellent players, all of whom are sidelined.  

 

The problems with the offense are largely due to coaching.  Other teams figured out how to slow or stop Josh, and they all copy-cat those approaches.  It's up to Dorsey to figure out how to recognize and attack the opposing defenses when they try that.  

Outscore your opponent. 

[FilthyBeast]

It brings a tear to my eye to see so many fans finally wake up and see the obvious problem.

 

Now hopefully the most important person realizes that come January when the season is over and acts fast without the contract extension being a factor.

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, stinky finger said:

Completely agree here.

 

Problem for me is - it happened in a loss. I can’t take solace in a magnificent offensive performance in a loss. 

 

Nobody asking anyone to take solace.  You originally said we haven't witnessed greatness out of the QB.  Then said you haven't witnessed it in a playoff scenario.  Now you are saying you can't take solace in a loss.  I don't take solace in that loss.  In fact I hate McD and this defense for that loss, but the QB still has shown greatness in that game.  In more games than that too.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Scott7975

[stinky finger]

6 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Nobody asking anyone to take solace.  You originally said we haven't witnessed greatness out of the QB.  Then said you haven't witnessed it in a playoff scenario.  Now you are saying you can't take solace in a loss.  I don't take solace in that loss.  In fact I hate McD and this defense for that loss, but the QB still has shown greatness in that game.  In more games than that too.

 

Enjoy the greatness.

 

I'm looking to win.

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, stinky finger said:

 

Enjoy the greatness.

 

I'm looking to win.

 

I mean you just keep changing your argument so...

[stinky finger]

10 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I mean you just keep changing your argument so...

I suppose I did. I'm over it.