Dubie54 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 I really thought these two guys would help strengthen our receiving corps talent, based on what they had done recently in NO and MIA. They both played meaningful roles in those offenses and served as as strong contributors. Harty had his breakout year in 2021 (he was hurt last year and saw limited action in 4 games), and no doubt we signed him based on his solid production in 2021. Besides being a solid return guy, in 2021 his receiving stats were: 36 rec 570 yds YPC - 15.8 longest - 72 yds The guy is quick and shifty and the Saints under Payton obviously found ways to utilize his speed and elusiveness. He was 2nd on the team in receiving yards. Sherfield had his breakout year in 2022. Behind Hill and Waddle, he was 3rd on the team in receiving yards: 30 rec 417 yds YPC - 13.9 longest - 75 yds So far in 2023, here's they stand: Harty: 13 rec 113 yds YPC - 8.7 longest - 43 yds Sherfield: 7 rec 53 yds YPC - 7.6 longest - 9 yds I know there are those who will say why do you want to throw more to these guys when you have Diggs/Davis/Kincaid. Well Miami last year, found a way to use Sherfield even though Hill had 119 rec. and Waddle had 75 rec., and Sherfield was gaining 14 YPC. Harty played on a team in 2021 that had a very mediocre receiving corps (no Michael Thomas that year) so he was asked to play a larger. What really stands out to me is the YPC under the current Bills offense. That may be based on the fact that they have been targeted on check downs more this year than in years past, but I also think it's a clear reflection of the short pass Dorsey scheme. I think under a more dynamic offense, both of these guys could contribute more. Why sign guys like these if you don't plan to work them into the offense - just to use them as decoys? 1 1 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Firebaugh Kid Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 When you don't convert third downs and stay on the field, it limits these types of players. They just don't get many opportunities. The 2 TE sets don't help either. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) sherfield never had a breakout year. mckenzie did more on the football field than both combined. harty is a 5th wr/gadget dude at most. all three are JAGs **i say it is not a breakout year because anyone could have put those numbers up. Edited November 7, 2023 by boyst 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your Brown Eye Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 I had pretty elevated hopes for Sherfield, thought he could be a jack of trades in the pass and run game 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 You look at Harty's two most memorable plays this year: The 10 yard First Down against Miami where he slides to catch a low ball, gets up and beats two guys to the sticks. The 10 yard First Down against New England where he makes 4 guys miss in a phone booth and picks up a first down. Both of those routes were simple routes to the sideline-flat. Nothing complicated, no motion, to jet sweep action, no trips action - those two plays just don't add up to me as to why he can't catch 2-3 of those kind of passes a game. But he's not on the field enough to even assess his routes so I can't tell you. There is nothing in the 15-20 yard area for this team outside of Diggs. You never see Harty over the middle, on a drag, on a slant or curl. They threw a bomb to him in Cincy and he never saw the field again. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) Under McDermott, we will likely never be on the cutting edge of offense. The way Allen plays, along with his tendencies.. we should probably stop playing games at WR and just get him legitimate WR2 that can run a full route tree. He clearly throws to who he trusts. Right now, it's Diggs and Kincaid.. which makes sense, because they are top tier talents. After that, it may be Shakir.. which, again, makes some sense because Shakir is in his true spot as WR3/Slot. Gabe is up and down because he's not a WR2 and is completely miscast in this Offense as we keep trying to tell Josh to trust someone in a role they are not built to occupy. He'll never be a consistent spread it around guy. He has his guys.. he trusts his guys.. Get him a legitimate WR2 that can run a full route tree and watch things pick up. Harty & Sherfield are just WR4/WR5 misfits here. I guess, for this year, we'll have to hope Gabe Davis magically becomes it.. or we can build an Offense around consistent production from Diggs, Kincaid and perhaps Shakir or a healthy Knox. Edited November 7, 2023 by SCBills 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Harty was on the field for 3 plays in the Bengals game. 3 snaps. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 6 minutes ago, Your Brown Eye said: I had pretty elevated hopes for Sherfield, thought he could be a jack of trades in the pass and run game He's solid depth and special teams. He can play inside and outside, has hands, and is fast. Basically a kumerow replacement. They were subbing out diggs and putting him in on run plays early in the year because he's a solid blocker too. Obviously that tips your hand a bit though. Harty was a mckenzie replacement. He's a better punt returner than mckenzie, but he isn't really a slot WR. I do think he's a tad more elusive than mckenzie, has better hands, and is actually a solid ball tracker on deep balls. Not sure why he isn't in the red zone package more - he's probably one of 2 players on the team that you can throw short of the end zone and have a reasonable expectation that they break the tackle and score. Because they're using kincaid as a WR at times, and shakir is finally getting some run in the slot - neither is seeing snaps at the moment. You can easily take some snaps from gabe and give them to either for something different. You can also move diggs into the slot and take a few shakir snaps and do something. I mean... what we're doing isn't working. Why aren't we trying to find other avenunes to get players involved? If you are going to throw short constantly you need YAC players - harty has wiggle, sherfield has speed.. isn't that what you want? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 17 minutes ago, Your Brown Eye said: I had pretty elevated hopes for Sherfield, thought he could be a jack of trades in the pass and run game He looked good when given chances last year in Miami. He looks pretty good too for us when he is targeted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 11 minutes ago, Rubes said: Harty was on the field for 3 plays in the Bengals game. 3 snaps. Bengals sit in cover 2 all game... Occaisionally rushing 3... And we have good YAC guys giving up snaps to davis so that davis can run clear outs for diggs/kincaid. Our tight end runs nothing but out routes. It works until it doesn't. We always look for hole shots in cover 2 - despite having a TE who can stretch those linebackers up the seam and ya know... create space for YAC underneath. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 34 minutes ago, Dubie54 said: Harty had his breakout year in 2021 (he was hurt last year and saw limited action in 4 games), and no doubt we signed him based on his solid production in 2021. Besides being a solid return guy, in 2021 his receiving stats were: 36 rec 570 yds YPC - 15.8 longest - 72 yds The guy is quick and shifty and the Saints under Payton obviously found ways to utilize his speed and elusiveness That says it all - "the Saints under Payton." The Broncos under Payton have another undrafted/tiny free agent they're getting a lot of value out of, Jaleel McLaughlin. We'll see him next week. He's good. You really shouldn't spend big for these guys. You find them in late rounds or as undrafted free agents. And then you have to have an idea of how to integrate them into your offense. The Bills kind of did with McKenzie under Daboll, and had no clue with Hines or Harty under Dorsey. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubie54 Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 30 minutes ago, boyst said: sherfield never had a breakout year. mckenzie did more on the football field than both combined. harty is a 5th wr/gadget dude at most. all three are JAGs **i say it is not a breakout year because anyone could have put those numbers up. I called it a breakout year based on his previous career stats up to that point. I disagree with your point about mckenzie. Sherfield had identical rec yds as mck in 2022, but he avg. much better YPC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 34 minutes ago, SCBills said: Under McDermott, we will likely never be on the cutting edge of offense. The way Allen plays, along with his tendencies.. we should probably stop playing games at WR and just get him legitimate WR2 that can run a full route tree. He clearly throws to who he trusts. Right now, it's Diggs and Kincaid.. which makes sense, because they are top tier talents. After that, it may be Shakir.. which, again, makes some sense because Shakir is in his true spot as WR3/Slot. Gabe is up and down because he's not a WR2 and is completely miscast in this Offense as we keep trying to tell Josh to trust someone in a role they are not built to occupy. He'll never be a consistent spread it around guy. He has his guys.. he trusts his guys.. Get him a legitimate WR2 that can run a full route tree and watch things pick up. Harty & Sherfield are just WR4/WR5 misfits here. I guess, for this year, we'll have to hope Gabe Davis magically becomes it.. or we can build an Offense around consistent production from Diggs, Kincaid and perhaps Shakir or a healthy Knox. This is what I said after Week 1. You have a rocket armed QB that you drafted chained to a bunch underneath guys, with only Diggs having enough skill balance to reliably separate, catch the ball, and run deep/after the catch. It started in 2021 when the answer was sign Emmanuel Sanders. That was the mental flaw that capped this offense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 I will be interested to see what the WR depth chart looks like next season. Davis is as good as gone. Some team will pay him north of 10 mil per. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetkings01 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 We have an OC not creative enough to get guys involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 At this point, I no longer believe it's the players. I think most of these guys are fine (though, I have admittedly soured on Gabe Davis). Dorsey and/or Josh just don't know what to do with them or how to get them involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Harty played 3 snaps on offense on Sunday. Beane deserves criticism for that contract. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Both had enough of a body of work to determine that they SHOULD be a bigger part of this offense. I don't think Dorsey knows how to use them, or how to be creative enough on offense to work them in more. If Daboll was still here, they would have triple the usage & stats (imo). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoMAn Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) I recently stumbled upon some comments from Bills fans dating back to 2017. I forget what site it was (a Facebook fan page?) I don't know how I got there, but it was amusing to read the comments. The comments were posted immediately after acquiring Kelvin Benjamin. There was great excitement and anticipation, believing he would bolster the receiving corps and the Bills would have one of the best group of receivers with him and Charles Clay on the field together. In hindsight, it pretty laughable. But, it's typical of the fan reaction when we pick up some 'has-been' who another team has determined won't contribute much. Sherfield and Harty are not 'has-beens', more like 'never-weres'. They're typical JAGs. Not bad, not great. Just guys who'll never hear the words pro bowl or hall of fame mentioned in the same sentence as their names. I can't honestly say those two are an upgrade from Brown and Beasely 2019. Maybe not even as potent as Brown/Beasely 2022. We're going backwards. The Bills desperately need a legitimate threat to go along with Digg, Shakir, and Kinkaid. Edited November 7, 2023 by SoMAn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 These guys combined don't equal McKittrick, and he would have only cost 25% of what we're paying these wastes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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