EmotionallyUnstable Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 (edited) Cleveland Dallas Buffalo San Fransisco Phili The game has evolved, and continues to be, an offensive game. However, it seems that teams have started to counter this with both scheme (2 high safeties, etc) and personnel. There are hosts of other teams with dynamic pass rushers, good defenses and parity seems to be at an all-time high. Even some of the best offenses of years past aren’t nearly as dangerous or unstoppable as they seemed to have been previously. I personally think it’s great for the game, but why? Have defenses started to catch up? Is this just an illusion to me? Or are we starting to see a transition back towards prioritizing pieces of the defensive side of the ball? Edited October 3, 2023 by EmotionallyUnstable 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said: Cleveland Dallas Buffalo San Fransisco Phili The game has evolved, and continues to be, an offensive game. However, it seems that teams have started to counter this with both scheme (2 high safeties, etc) and personnel. There are hosts of other teams with dynamic pass rushers, good defenses and parity seems to be at an all-time high. Even some of the best offenses of years past aren’t nearly as dangerous or unstoppable as they seemed to have been previously. I personally think it’s great for the game, but why? Have defenses started to catch up? Is this just an illusion to me? Or are we starting to see a transition back towards prioritizing pieces of the defensive side of the ball? points per game are UP year over year, but down slightly from the high water mark of 2020. Looks like this year is pretty average within the uptick that happened about 10 years ago im not sure it’s a reality to say it’s moving the opposite way yet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 For the better, I’d say! I do not enjoy watching receivers constantly being wide open with not a single defender within 15 yards (well unless it’s the Bills offense; in which case I’m more than fine with it). A la the NCAA Championship last year (shudder). 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, NoSaint said: points per game are UP year over year, but down slightly from the high water mark of 2020. Looks like this year is pretty average within the uptick that happened about 10 years ago im not sure it’s a reality to say it’s moving the opposite way yet Appreicate the info. I am not savvy nor dedicated enough to find this info. I do wonder what other statistical measures could be explored. Are sacks up? Yards? Turnovers? It could be both that offensive scoring continues to be at all time highs while defensive impact is also more prevelant, leading to more scoring in its own way. Edited October 3, 2023 by EmotionallyUnstable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 I hope so. Kind of bored of the shoot outs (unless it’s Buffalo blowing someone out.) McD just embarrassed the so-called best offense in the NFL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 I'm too lazy to look, but ESPN wrote an article about exactly this a few weeks back. The shifting towards the 2-3 safety look to prevent the deep back. The Anti-Chiefs/Bills defense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Virgil said: I'm too lazy to look, but ESPN wrote an article about exactly this a few weeks back. The shifting towards the 2-3 safety look to prevent the deep back. The Anti-Chiefs/Bills defense 2 high safeties is anything but new though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 1 minute ago, NoSaint said: 2 high safeties is anything but new though. Correct, but most defenses were keeping one safety deep on the majority of plays. Even the two safety deep setup typically had one of them starting in the box. Now, teams are keeping the 2 safeties deep, with a 3rd option to drop back. None of it is new, as you say, but the trend and execution is starting to shift back. Same as how the NFL adjusted to the Greatest Show on Turf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 29 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said: Cleveland Dallas Buffalo San Fransisco Phili The game has evolved, and continues to be, an offensive game. However, it seems that teams have started to counter this with both scheme (2 high safeties, etc) and personnel. There are hosts of other teams with dynamic pass rushers, good defenses and parity seems to be at an all-time high. Even some of the best offenses of years past aren’t nearly as dangerous or unstoppable as they seemed to have been previously. I personally think it’s great for the game, but why? Have defenses started to catch up? Is this just an illusion to me? Or are we starting to see a transition back towards prioritizing pieces of the defensive side of the ball? Defensive players today have to be fast and fearless. Just being strong and willing to tackle is not enough in todays game. Look at our linebackers today compared to the proto-type LBs from the 70/80/90’s. This position has completely evolved to help support the passing game but fast and strong enough to snuff the run. We’re are fortunate as Benard looks to be in the Milano mold and we have two LBs capable of keeping an offense like Miami’s at bay. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Just now, Virgil said: Correct, but most defenses were keeping one safety deep on the majority of plays. Even the two safety deep setup typically had one of them starting in the box. Now, teams are keeping the 2 safeties deep, with a 3rd option to drop back. None of it is new, as you say, but the trend and execution is starting to shift back. Same as how the NFL adjusted to the Greatest Show on Turf. the difference here being the nfl scoring explosion correlated to rule changes, not simply a talented roster or new wrinkle. Unless you point towards rule changes favoring the defense or a long term shift in cap dollars effecting where athletes are trying to play - there isn’t much reason to think a noteworthy swing is in progress. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 22 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said: Appreicate the info. I am not savvy nor dedicated enough to find this info. I do wonder what other statistical measures could be explored. Are sacks up? Yards? Turnovers? It could be both that offensive scoring continues to be at all time highs while defensive impact is also more prevelant, leading to more scoring in its own way. is it simply that several of the teams you picked are high scoring with aggressive pass rushes ala the manning colts? not necessarily steel curtains but simply good complimentary football? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Love the topic here. I have faith in NFL defensive coordinators to catch up to just about every offense, eventually, given proper resources. It's been my opinion that we should identify our most pressing societal and planetary problems, maybe top three at the time, then conscript the top ten NFL defensive coordinators, each offseason, to take three weeks to diagnose, deconstruct, and devise a gameplan to defeat those problems. Boom. Problems solved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 55 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said: Cleveland Dallas Buffalo San Fransisco Phili The game has evolved, and continues to be, an offensive game. However, it seems that teams have started to counter this with both scheme (2 high safeties, etc) and personnel. There are hosts of other teams with dynamic pass rushers, good defenses and parity seems to be at an all-time high. Even some of the best offenses of years past aren’t nearly as dangerous or unstoppable as they seemed to have been previously. I personally think it’s great for the game, but why? Have defenses started to catch up? Is this just an illusion to me? Or are we starting to see a transition back towards prioritizing pieces of the defensive side of the ball? I hope it's starting to swing back, it's a better sport with parity on both sides of the ball. On a related note, is anyone else sick of the under-thrown deep ball PI call? I wish the nfl could do something about that.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 7 minutes ago, NoSaint said: is it simply that several of the teams you picked are high scoring with aggressive pass rushes ala the manning colts? not necessarily steel curtains but simply good complimentary football? Sure. But there are also examples of teams that have game breaking players (Lions, Jags, Chargers, etc) which I wouldn’t necessarily say are high functioning offenses or as complimentary as those previously stated. Again, nothing new here. Just seems to be more prevelant. Last week Bengals vs Rams, the offense couldn’t get anything go and both defenses seemed to be in control of most of that game. Both of those teams, within the last few years, have been considered top notch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 41 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said: Sure. But there are also examples of teams that have game breaking players (Lions, Jags, Chargers, etc) which I wouldn’t necessarily say are high functioning offenses or as complimentary as those previously stated. Again, nothing new here. Just seems to be more prevelant. Last week Bengals vs Rams, the offense couldn’t get anything go and both defenses seemed to be in control of most of that game. Both of those teams, within the last few years, have been considered top notch. Chargers have been god awful, but they did beat up the Vegas backup qb- they are literally last place in receiving yards allowed though and may underscore the gap between your perception based on games watched and reality on this? Not meant snarky so much as trends for 32 teams are hard to keep track of anecdotally with watching a few games and hearing a few comments like most of us do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 19 or the last 20 teams in the Superbowl have a top 10 offense during the regular season. 70% of them have a top 5 offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 17 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said: Cleveland Dallas Buffalo San Fransisco Phili The game has evolved, and continues to be, an offensive game. However, it seems that teams have started to counter this with both scheme (2 high safeties, etc) and personnel. There are hosts of other teams with dynamic pass rushers, good defenses and parity seems to be at an all-time high. Even some of the best offenses of years past aren’t nearly as dangerous or unstoppable as they seemed to have been previously. I personally think it’s great for the game, but why? Have defenses started to catch up? Is this just an illusion to me? Or are we starting to see a transition back towards prioritizing pieces of the defensive side of the ball? Citation needed. There has been the most blowout (20 pt wins) through four weeks since 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 I think the pendulum is definitely swinging. One sign is how the running game is becoming important in many offenses. Why? Because defenses are having more success stopping the pass. Defensive coaches are now doing what McDermott has been doing for years - trying to figure out how to stop the pass, and still have guys on the field who can stand up to the run. And there are so many physically talented defenders, it's becoming doable. Another sign is that defenses are now absolutely blowing up offenses that just aren't that good. Sure, bad offenses always have lost, but the Giants and the Patriots this weekend were embarrassing on offense. They were overwhelmed by the defenses they faced, just crushed. I've said before that I think the NFL probably already is in the process of figuring out what to do to the rules to reinvigorate the offenses. My personal favorite is to loosen up, again, the offensive holding rules in some way, so that there are fewer holding calls. Offensive holding is a known drive-killer, and killing fewer drives should lead to more scoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Defense wins championships...but only during alternating decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I think the pendulum is definitely swinging. One sign is how the running game is becoming important in many offenses. Why? Because defenses are having more success stopping the pass. Defensive coaches are now doing what McDermott has been doing for years - trying to figure out how to stop the pass, and still have guys on the field who can stand up to the run. And there are so many physically talented defenders, it's becoming doable. Another sign is that defenses are now absolutely blowing up offenses that just aren't that good. Sure, bad offenses always have lost, but the Giants and the Patriots this weekend were embarrassing on offense. They were overwhelmed by the defenses they faced, just crushed. I've said before that I think the NFL probably already is in the process of figuring out what to do to the rules to reinvigorate the offenses. My personal favorite is to loosen up, again, the offensive holding rules in some way, so that there are fewer holding calls. Offensive holding is a known drive-killer, and killing fewer drives should lead to more scoring. Citation needed. The top rushing offense was worst record in the NFL Chicago Bears last season. The Superbowl Champion Chiefs were 20th. Meanwhile the top 5 passing teams were all playoff teams. Quite a pendulum swing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 (edited) You've always got a better chance to win if you can stop someone as means your offense has to do less. It's why the old adage is that defense wins championships exists. Never truer than the year the Baltimore Ravens won with Dilfer at QB. I think the same as true today, only difference is most games now are usually won or lost by two or three plays in a given game. On 10/2/2023 at 9:28 PM, Bob in STL said: Defensive players today have to be fast and fearless. Just being strong and willing to tackle is not enough in todays game. Look at our linebackers today compared to the proto-type LBs from the 70/80/90’s. This position has completely evolved to help support the passing game but fast and strong enough to snuff the run. We’re are fortunate as Benard looks to be in the Milano mold and we have two LBs capable of keeping an offense like Miami’s at bay. The reason for more athletic LBs is because the TE position has evolved too, as now it seems like every good team has a TE that can find a seam in the middle of a defense and move the chains. I mean look at our game we were struggling when we let Smythe beat us early on but once we covered him we did better on D. Toss in on the other side Kincaid was a threat against the Dolphins. Edited October 4, 2023 by The Jokeman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 When Quessenberry actually got signed to an active roster, I knew the bottom had totally dropped out on tackles, setting the stage for pass rushing dominance like we’ve seen from the Bills this year. Thankfully we have promising trainees like VanDemark in the mix. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 20 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said: Cleveland Dallas Buffalo San Fransisco Phili The game has evolved, and continues to be, an offensive game. However, it seems that teams have started to counter this with both scheme (2 high safeties, etc) and personnel. There are hosts of other teams with dynamic pass rushers, good defenses and parity seems to be at an all-time high. Even some of the best offenses of years past aren’t nearly as dangerous or unstoppable as they seemed to have been previously. I personally think it’s great for the game, but why? Have defenses started to catch up? Is this just an illusion to me? Or are we starting to see a transition back towards prioritizing pieces of the defensive side of the ball? Seems like a lot of defensive TD's have been scored for only 4 weeks into the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 19 hours ago, Tenhigh said: I hope it's starting to swing back, it's a better sport with parity on both sides of the ball. On a related note, is anyone else sick of the under-thrown deep ball PI call? I wish the nfl could do something about that.... Yes, I hate the underthrown deepball interference call. There is nothing a defender can do really. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Offensive line play being at an all-time low quality-wise has made pass rush dominant. Teams are scheming around that better now but as bad as we think the Bills offensive line was LAST year the Bills probably had a better offensive line than 10-12 other teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 20 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said: Cleveland Dallas Buffalo San Fransisco Phili The game has evolved, and continues to be, an offensive game. However, it seems that teams have started to counter this with both scheme (2 high safeties, etc) and personnel. There are hosts of other teams with dynamic pass rushers, good defenses and parity seems to be at an all-time high. Even some of the best offenses of years past aren’t nearly as dangerous or unstoppable as they seemed to have been previously. I personally think it’s great for the game, but why? Have defenses started to catch up? Is this just an illusion to me? Or are we starting to see a transition back towards prioritizing pieces of the defensive side of the ball? Ive been saying this all offseason but there has been such a focus on passing the ball. OL starting in college are taking more passblock snaps then ever. More Receivers then ever are being drafted in the first 2 days of drafts. Linebackers HAVE BEEN GETTING SMALLER EVERY YEAR. They also are being brought up to speed in college with a role tilting towards DB over run defending. We started to see NE, Indy, Mia, SF, Cleveland (TN has done this all along) committing to the run like nobody has in recent years. Why? These teams havent had better than middling at best QB play, why throw a 50xs a game with a bad QB.... so they went anti-trend. The top defenses are built to stop the pass. All these teams had flashes of success doing it, and a lot of these teams were the outlier that other teams didnt want to run into in the playoffs. The US military would run over a country like France, theyre not built for that kinda war...... ISIS sure as hell given us some fits though. Did the VietCong strafe and bomb the chit outta us using their AirForce/Aircraft Carriers? Or did they find a way to drag us into territory we're uncomfortable/not built for and use guerilla tactics like bottlenecking, traps, and ambushes? ......... what im getting at here....... is Mia is ISIS, and NE is the VC? Maybe I have this backwards...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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