To all the Fire McDermott Posters, a follow up question..

[hondo in seattle]

10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I'm talking more about the Micah Hydes 

 

The talent is there

 

I agree, there's talent.  There's enough talent to win a SB with a bit of luck.  Just not enough talent to guarantee a SB, even with good coaching.  

 

Each season, there are teams that are more talented than us - and more likely to win a Lombardi.   Both the teams in the SB had better rosters than the Bills, particularly if you look at the shape of the Bills when we entered the playoffs.  We were missing key guys.  Other key guys, notably our QB, were playing hurt.  Bad coaching didn't cost us a trophy.  

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

What type of issues? If they have a losing season there is a real possibility it all blows up and there’s a rebuild around Josh. We could see 6-7 new starters on defense and offense in 2024. In fact it does set up for major changes after next season.

 

Losing season?  LOL ... come on now.  They could put Allen on any one of the teams during the drought era and we wouldn't have a losing season.  

 

Is that your expectation, minimally, a winning season?  
 

As to looming issues, if you don't see any then that would explain any differences in our views.  

 

To start, I'd be willing to make a friendly wager that the whole Diggs issue revives itself and in no small way at some point during the season.  

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Losing season?  LOL ... come on now.  They could put Allen on any one of the teams during the drought era and we wouldn't have a losing season.  

 

Is that your expectation, minimally, a winning season?  
 

As to looming issues, if you don't see any then that would explain any differences in our views.  

 

To start, I'd be willing to make a friendly wager that the whole Diggs issue revives itself and in no small way at some point during the season.  

 

 

All I care about are wins and losses. 

[Doc]

12 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

Well, I can, I did, based upon other indicators.  But at this point what's the sense in arguing over it?  The season's going to play out one way or another, right?   No one's going anywhere before the season.  

 

Is anything that you or I say going to alter it?  

 

But allow me to ask, and hopefully you'll answer the question.  Suppose that it plays out that we go through the season again, make the playoffs whatever the circumstances, and lose either in the Wild-Card or Divisional Round by not playing our best and/or by losing to an inferior team.  

 

Will your stance then be the same?  

 

As to his play-calling on Defense, here's what I'm expecting, about what he did in Carolina, which was an average of I believe it was 17th ranked Scoring D and 13th ranked Yardage D on average, essentially perfectly average, and that with players like Kuechly, one of the league's best then, Davis, Johnson, Addison in his prime, Lotulelei when he gave a crap.  

 

That while also keeping an eye on the offense.  Should be interesting, perhaps I'll be pleasantly surprised, I hope so, but for purposes of forming my opinions I'm big on expecting what patterns and trends have revealed.  That's the only one we have to go by since everyone here says that to date it's all been Frasier.  

 

Sorry, should have added "reasonably."

[GoBills808]

12 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I agree, there's talent.  There's enough talent to win a SB with a bit of luck.  Just not enough talent to guarantee a SB, even with good coaching.  

 

Each season, there are teams that are more talented than us - and more likely to win a Lombardi.   Both the teams in the SB had better rosters than the Bills, particularly if you look at the shape of the Bills when we entered the playoffs.  We were missing key guys.  Other key guys, notably our QB, were playing hurt.  Bad coaching didn't cost us a trophy.  

I don't believe that the Bengals were more talented than us when we played

 

 

[PBF81]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

All I care about are wins and losses. 

 

You don't care about a championship?  

 

You'd rather go 14-3 and lose in the WC or D round than to go 9-8 and win it all?  

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

21 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m not trying to be that guy, but that’s not how it works with the Bills. I know a little bit about how things operate there.

 

Beane controls the 53. McDermott is in charge of coaching. I believe a lot of people are capable of the results that McDermott has produced with this roster. It’s Doug Collins. It’s Dwayne Casey. Do we need a new voice to take the next step? That’s my belief. I don’t believe that he is elevating, or holding back, the talent. He’s a caretaker. The Bills do not win BECAUSE of McDermott. That’s what the great coaches do. 

My question is if it comes down to choosing between a defensive or offensive asset, who wins the decision?

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

Sorry, should have added "reasonably."

 

Well, I thought that I was being pretty reasonable.  LOL  

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Interesting. Ben Roethlisberger made 3 Super Bowls and won 2. All 3 Super Bowls he avoided playing Tom Brady and the Patriots in the playoffs. Blown out the 2 times he faced NE.
 

It’s interesting how legacy are made. 
 

How many people here would discredit McDermott if he makes a Super Bowl without beating Mahomes or Burrow. I know there’s some here that would. Sometimes you have to be lucky.

4 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

You don't care about a championship?  

 

You'd rather go 14-3 and lose in the WC or D round than to go 9-8 and win it all?  

 

 

Huh? Lol.

 

 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Interesting. Ben Roethlisberger made 3 Super Bowls and won 2. All 3 Super Bowls he avoided playing Tom Brady and the Patriots in the playoffs. Blown out the 2 times he faced NE.
 

It’s interesting how legacy are made. 
 

How many people here would discredit McDermott if he makes a Super Bowl without beating Mahomes or Burrow. I know there’s some here that would. Sometimes you have to be lucky.

Huh? Lol.

 

 

Nobody is going to discredit anybody if they win a Super Bowl, come on

[TheCockSportif]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Nobody is going to discredit anybody if they win a Super Bowl, come on

Correct.  McD to me == Dungy, and Dungy won one, and later parlayed that into a sweet network television gig.

 

Admittedly, I'm in the down on McD camp (after all of these years), but what it comes down to for me each season is: would I rather watch a McD season than a drought season.  And there's my answer.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, TheCockSportif said:

Correct.  McD to me == Dungy, and Dungy won one, and later parlayed that into a sweet network television gig.

 

Admittedly, I'm in the down on McD camp (after all of these years), but what it comes down to for me each season is: would I rather watch a McD season than a drought season.  And there's my answer.

Yes I agree obviously

 

But concurrently I would sit through 10 more drought seasons back to back for 1 Super Bowl

[TheCockSportif]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

But concurrently I would sit through 10 more drought seasons back to back for 1 Super Bowl

Really?!  I applaud you for this, and I'm not being sarcastic in the slightest.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, TheCockSportif said:

Really?!  I applaud you for this, and I'm not being sarcastic in the slightest.

Oh dead serious

 

We'll still have Allen so it will be fun to watch. Give me the championship 

[PBF81]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Huh? Lol.

 

Well, 9-8 plus 4 more wins is 13 wins.  Going 14-3, or better, winning a WC game and losing in the D round, or even winning in the D round and losing the CCG would result in more wins.  

 

I'm only asking because some that I've exchanged with here have stated plainly that they're quite content with merely winning seasons and winning the division regardless of what happens afterwards. 

 

I only bring it up because that would be a huge explanation as to peoples' differences in the way that they view our coaching.  

 

I'd take slinking into the playoffs at 9-8 as the 7th seed, taking third in the division, with a Super Bowl win over the Patriots' 2007 season any day.  

 

 

[T master]

I heard the guy on One Bills Live just the other day & he said we absolutely needed to fire McD if they didn't win the SB this year but i'm with you they seem to forget how long it took to get a good coach & how other teams like Philly did after they did what they are calling for. 

 

Pittsburgh is a prime example of keeping the coach for yrs . I for one ope they keep McD in place !! 

 

GO BILLS !!! 

[DrDawkinstein]

10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Yes I agree obviously

 

But concurrently I would sit through 10 more drought seasons back to back for 1 Super Bowl

 

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Oh dead serious

 

We'll still have Allen so it will be fun to watch. Give me the championship 

 

This is a very interesting ask/scenario. I certainly understand your viewpoint. A guaranteed Super Bowl championship is tough to deny or walk away from. Especially for our franchise and fanbase.

 

Guaranteed 1 Super Bowl, but followed by 10 years of no playoffs. That Super Bowl would be so sweet, I'd probably not even watch the season after and could coast on that victory for years. But...

 

Wasting the second half of Josh's career would be tough to sign up for tho.

 

Do we think Josh/Bills would win a Super Bowl regardless and maybe even TWO?

 

Kinda a one in the hand vs two in the bush type thing...

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

This is a very interesting ask/scenario. I certainly understand your viewpoint. A guaranteed Super Bowl championship is tough to deny or walk away from. Especially for our franchise and fanbase.

 

Guaranteed 1 Super Bowl, but followed by 10 years of no playoffs. That Super Bowl would be so sweet, I'd probably not even watch the season after and could coast on that victory for years. But...

 

Wasting the second half of Josh's career would be tough to sign up for tho.

 

Do we think Josh/Bills would win a Super Bowl regardless and maybe even TWO?

 

Kinda a one in the hand vs two in the bush type thing...

I have lost a lot of faith tbh

 

No SB (not even an appearance) on Allen's rookie deal... I think we are in the process of wasting his career as we speak 

[TheCockSportif]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

This is a very interesting ask/scenario. I certainly understand your viewpoint. A guaranteed Super Bowl championship is tough to deny or walk away from. Especially for our franchise and fanbase.

 

Guaranteed 1 Super Bowl, but followed by 10 years of no playoffs. That Super Bowl would be so sweet, I'd probably not even watch the season after and could coast on that victory for years. But...

 

Wasting the second half of Josh's career would be tough to sign up for tho.

 

Do we think Josh/Bills would win a Super Bowl regardless and maybe even TWO?

 

Kinda a one in the hand vs two in the bush type thing...

As a WNY native, I've followed the Bills for my entire life, unlike the Red Sox where I'm about 30 years in as a fan at this point.

 

I kinda understand the wont to win a SB ASAP, future consequences of potentially selling the farm be damned.  The Red Sox winning 2004 really took the edge off for me, and every season and success after that point has been gravy for a fan like me.

 

Having written that, and given the context of winning taking the edge off, I'd probably just stop watching the Bills should they Drought It Up for a lengthy period after a SB.  You figure that with myriad decades of *****ery by the Bills, wide right, basically losing SBs with impunity at one point, MSM, a further moribund franchise for 17 years for many, many reasons, the worst playoff game I ever saw against the Jags, 13 seconds, Damar, a team that was basically off for a lot of last season, the team wins a SB and it gets a lot tougher to ride the Viper for the hundredth time -- should they repeat the past over and over.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

18 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, 9-8 plus 4 more wins is 13 wins.  Going 14-3, or better, winning a WC game and losing in the D round, or even winning in the D round and losing the CCG would result in more wins.  

 

I'm only asking because some that I've exchanged with here have stated plainly that they're quite content with merely winning seasons and winning the division regardless of what happens afterwards. 

 

I only bring it up because that would be a huge explanation as to peoples' differences in the way that they view our coaching.  

 

I'd take slinking into the playoffs at 9-8 as the 7th seed, taking third in the division, with a Super Bowl win over the Patriots' 2007 season any day.  

 

 

Just get in is always my motto. You never know what can happen.

 

But if we’re talking firing a coach I have different criteria. If you get in and advance I’m not even thinking of firing the coach. 
 

Reasons to fire a head coach for me:

 

- Consecutive losing seasons

- Consecutive one and done playoffs 

- Some type of scandal 

- Franchise QB wants you fired 

 

 

 

 

[Gregg]

13 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I have lost a lot of faith tbh

 

No SB (not even an appearance) on Allen's rookie deal... I think we are in the process of wasting his career as we speak 

 

Look at Elway as an example. He didn't win a Super Bowl for the longest time (although he did get to and lose 3 of them) but the Broncos managed to build a team around him nearing the end of his career which allowed him to win 2 Super Bowls. The Bills have time to win with Allen, but I am not sure that McDermott will be the coach when they finally win a Super Bowl with him.

[oldmanfan]

The grass is always greener on the other side.  Until you actually get to the other side.

[newcam2012]

5 hours ago, McBean said:

Same here.

 

Haven’t missed watching a game in over 25+ years. Love all my fellow Bills fan, even tho we might disagree.

 

I’m just very vocal and passionate on here about wanting McDermott gone because I know how short our window is. NFL is all about the QB and we have, imo, the second best one in the league. This team and him are being held back by our defensive minded HC and I’ll go to my grave saying it until he brings us a Lombardi home.

 

I’ll never forgive Sean McDermott for 13 seconds. Ever. That shouldn’t have happened. That was a firable offense and it pisses me off more we didn’t promote Daboll. 

Same here. OMG do you have an ability to read my mind. Very well said. 

 

I'd add in the only way McD can vindicate himself is by winning the SB or going to one. Perhaps, shallow thinking but in my mind he gave one away. I just can't ever forget that. You just can't blow opportunities like that. To this day, I can't stomach to watch a replay of that game.

 

56 minutes ago, T master said:

I heard the guy on One Bills Live just the other day & he said we absolutely needed to fire McD if they didn't win the SB this year but i'm with you they seem to forget how long it took to get a good coach & how other teams like Philly did after they did what they are calling for. 

 

Pittsburgh is a prime example of keeping the coach for yrs . I for one ope they keep McD in place !! 

 

GO BILLS !!! 

Pitts is a great example. How did they do when they landed their franchise QB? 

[PBF81]

31 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Just get in is always my motto. You never know what can happen.

 

But if we’re talking firing a coach I have different criteria. If you get in and advance I’m not even thinking of firing the coach. 
 

Reasons to fire a head coach for me:

 

- Consecutive losing seasons

- Consecutive one and done playoffs 

- Some type of scandal 

- Franchise QB wants you fired 

 

OK, so same question to you that I asked Doc but haven't gotten an answer on yet; 

 

 

Suppose that it plays out that we go through the season again, make the playoffs whatever the circumstances, and lose either in the Wild-Card or Divisional Round by not playing our best and/or by losing to an inferior team.  

 

What are your thoughts then? 

 

 

[Doc Brown]

16 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

In the end, I think its fine to disagree to disagree. Yet, a select few want to sling mud and cross the line. Not cool. 

I disagree.

[Augie]

Here’s a thought I don’t think I’ve seen yet here: If you fire a coach after, say, a 14-4 season, how attractive is that job scenario for top HC candidates you hope will replace your 14-4 coach. I know I’d have reservations about following that up. 

[Doc Brown]

24 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Look at Elway as an example. He didn't win a Super Bowl for the longest time (although he did get to and lose 3 of them) but the Broncos managed to build a team around him nearing the end of his career which allowed him to win 2 Super Bowls. The Bills have time to win with Allen, but I am not sure that McDermott will be the coach when they finally win a Super Bowl with him.

They also choked against the Jaguars before winning those two Super Bowls.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

This is a very interesting ask/scenario. I certainly understand your viewpoint. A guaranteed Super Bowl championship is tough to deny or walk away from. Especially for our franchise and fanbase.

 

Guaranteed 1 Super Bowl, but followed by 10 years of no playoffs. That Super Bowl would be so sweet, I'd probably not even watch the season after and could coast on that victory for years. But...

 

Wasting the second half of Josh's career would be tough to sign up for tho.

 

Do we think Josh/Bills would win a Super Bowl regardless and maybe even TWO?

 

Kinda a one in the hand vs two in the bush type thing...

Easy decision for me. Give me the one SB. We've been waiting decades for that. Take the sure thing. 

 

Sure I'll be complaining about stinking afterwards but the SB win will satisfy my appetite for years.

Edited June 19, 2023 by newcam2012

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

I disagree.

 

Do you disagree to agree? 

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

Do you disagree to agree? 

I told my doctor that we should agree to disagree when he told me to cut down on red meats.  He declined.

[HappyDays]

41 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I have lost a lot of faith tbh

 

No SB (not even an appearance) on Allen's rookie deal... I think we are in the process of wasting his career as we speak 

 

It's even worse - only one AFCCG appearance. I mean that's truly an awful resume for an elite QB. Arguably the greatest QB playoff stretch of all time ended in the divisional round because of a major coaching blunder. It seems obvious to me that if we again fail to reach the AFCCG that should be the nail in the coffin for McDermott. It would be four years with an elite QB and exactly one AFCCG appearance and no Super Bowl appearance. That would be more than enough evidence that he isn't going to get us over the hump.

[newcam2012]

42 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I have lost a lot of faith tbh

 

No SB (not even an appearance) on Allen's rookie deal... I think we are in the process of wasting his career as we speak 

I think the window is still open but it's getting smaller and smaller. 

 

Certainly we can all agree that there have been wasted opportunities. 

 

The Bills organization was great at building a winner but not so great st getting over the hump. Huge improvement but still leaves something to be desired. 

 

Hopefully, they can get it done soon. 

8 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

OK, so same question to you that I asked Doc but haven't gotten an answer on yet; 

 

 

Suppose that it plays out that we go through the season again, make the playoffs whatever the circumstances, and lose either in the Wild-Card or Divisional Round by not playing our best and/or by losing to an inferior team.  

 

What are your thoughts then? 

 

 

I'll answer it. McD has to go! A change is needed to progress. 

[newcam2012]

8 minutes ago, Augie said:

Here’s a thought I don’t think I’ve seen yet here: If you fire a coach after, say, a 14-4 season, how attractive is that job scenario for top HC candidates you hope will replace your 14-4 coach. I know I’d have reservations about following that up. 

Gotta think a head coach would be salivating to have Allen as their QB. 

 

I don't think a coach's mindset takes or doesn't take a job based on fear of getting fired. 

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's even worse - only one AFCCG appearance. I mean that's truly an awful resume for an elite QB. Arguably the greatest QB playoff stretch of all time ended in the divisional round because of a major coaching blunder. It seems obvious to me that if we again fail to reach the AFCCG that should be the nail in the coffin for McDermott. It would be four years with an elite QB and exactly one AFCCG appearance and no Super Bowl appearance. That would be more than enough evidence that he isn't going to get us over the hump.

Absolutely agree

 

I get that the grass isn't always greener but how green is it really right now

[BarleyNY]

42 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Just get in is always my motto. You never know what can happen.

 

But if we’re talking firing a coach I have different criteria. If you get in and advance I’m not even thinking of firing the coach. 
 

Reasons to fire a head coach for me:

 

- Consecutive losing seasons

- Consecutive one and done playoffs 

- Some type of scandal 

- Franchise QB wants you fired 

 

 

 

 

You missed reason #1: Loses the locker room. For the record I don’t think McDermott has lost this locker room, but I don’t think it’ll take much that more for it to happen. It already appears Diggs is there - or at least very close. Obviously McD has (at least) this season to turn the playoff ship around and here’s hoping that happens. 

[Gregg]

4 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Gotta think a head coach would be salivating to have Allen as their QB. 

 

I don't think a coach's mindset takes or doesn't take a job based on fear of getting fired. 

 

Agree. Plus, it's not like McDermott hasn't been given a fair chance. This will be his 7th year as coach of the Bills. At some point you have to wonder if he is the guy to get them over the hump. If he fails, this year then I could see his seat getting warm. 

[Royale with Cheese]

I think a lot of people are under the assumption that if 13 seconds didn't happen, we automatically win the Super Bowl.

Are we guaranteeing that we beat Cincy?  

 

McDermott's seat will be grease pan hot I believe if he doesn't at least get to the AFCCG this year.  Not knowing right now who would replace him shouldn't really matter.  

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think a lot of people are under the assumption that if 13 seconds didn't happen, we automatically win the Super Bowl.

Are we guaranteeing that we beat Cincy?  

 

McDermott's seat will be grease pan hot I believe if he doesn't at least get to the AFCCG this year.  Not knowing right now who would replace him shouldn't really matter.  

 

No guarantees but the way they were playing that year I think they would have gotten by the Bengals. Allen and the offense were unstoppable. But we will never know.

[Doc Brown]

2 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

You missed reason #1: Loses the locker room. For the record I don’t think McDermott has lost this locker room, but I don’t think it’ll take much that more for it to happen. It already appears Diggs is there - or at least very close. Obviously McD has (at least) this season to turn the playoff ship around and here’s hoping that happens. 

Besides Diggs, I can't think of one disgruntled Bill.  Heck, Jordan Poyer came back here for peanuts.  The crap McDermott had to guide this team through last year (blizzards, Damar Hamilin situation) logically would make one think he has an even tighter buy in from the locker room.  That's one concern I don't have about McDermott.  He's a lot like Tomlin in that way.

[PBF81]

23 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I think the window is still open but it's getting smaller and smaller. 

 

Certainly we can all agree that there have been wasted opportunities. 

 

The Bills organization was great at building a winner but not so great st getting over the hump. Huge improvement but still leaves something to be desired. 

 

Hopefully, they can get it done soon. 

I'll answer it. McD has to go! A change is needed to progress. 

 

I know where you stand!  

 

Sheesh!  

 

😁