To all the Fire McDermott Posters, a follow up question..

[Gregg]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Yes. Hyde that Int vs ne. And? How about vs KC? Anyone make a play? Any DL step up?

 

Nope they need to be better. With McDermott calling the shots on D this will all come back on him now if they fail again

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I criticize Sean plenty. I don’t need to diminish what he’s accomplished to be critical of him though.

 

Not sure I see anyone diminishing what he's accomplished.  All that's being said is that he's plateaued.  Hit a ceiling.  

 

If there's stuff to criticize, as you say you do, then it's possible that those issues are terminal to us winning a championship.  Right?  

 

His apologists claim that we don't know the "inside stuff" for lack of a better term, but to wit, we also don't know the inside stuff on Diggs, Frasier, Daboll, Dorsey, etc.  

 

Those are all significant issues that once known, either directly or indirectly, can easily do terminal damage depending upon the truth.  

 

Otherwise, as to what he's accomplished, part performance is not a guarantee of future performance.  

 

He may have been great to bring us out of our drought funk, but the question as to whether he's capable of closing looms large.  

 

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by PBF81

[Doc]

20 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

Not sure I see anyone diminishing what he's accomplished.  All that's being said is that he's plateaued.  Hit a ceiling.  

 

If there's stuff to criticize, as you say you do, then it's possible that those issues are terminal to us winning a championship.  Right?  

 

His apologists claim that we don't know the "inside stuff" for lack of a better term, but to wit, we also don't know the inside stuff on Diggs, Frasier, Daboll, Dorsey, etc.  

 

Those are all significant issues that once known, either directly or indirectly, can easily do terminal damage depending upon the truth.  

 

Otherwise, as to what he's accomplished, part performance is not a guarantee of future performance.  

 

He may have been great to bring us out of our drought funk, but the question as to whether he's capable of closing looms large.  

You can’t say he’s hit a plateau/ceiling until you see how the season plays out with him taking over play-calling duties.  I realize it’s the slow season right now and we need something to talk about. 

[Behindenemylines]

1 hour ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

As in ALL the other Pro Sports, nobody gives a ***** whether somebody finishes first in the Regular Season. Ask the 2022 Boston Bruins!

 

NOBODY!

I agree but there appears to be a large group that feels anything short of a great regular season AND a SB win is failure.  Winning the SB isn’t enough and proves McD should go-even after a SB win. 
 

 

[Since1981]

I just can’t shake “Top 15” question. 
top 15 fans? Yes

top 15 owner? Yes. 

top 15 GM? Yes. 

top 15 QB? Yes. 
top 15 HC??

Edited June 19, 2023 by Since1981

[Toyo321]

On 6/18/2023 at 10:49 AM, What a Tuel said:

 

Its not shrugging your shoulders to say "who's the guy?", it is shrugging our shoulders and saying your mythical head coach who is going to come in and win a super bowl is just that - mythical.

 

Its all fun and games until next HC bombs it and gets fired too, and we go full rebuild and waste the 2nd half of Allen's career. 

 

There is zero reason we can't win now in the playoffs. This "McDermott can't do it" is just made up nonsense by people who want change for the sake of their imagination conjuring getting a HOF HC who will carry us through a dynasty.

 

Andy Reid has two decades of no Super Bowl winning HC playoff history until he won a super bowl.

 

Andy Reid also never had JA17 talent under center during that time frame either.  Sorry Michael Vick and Donovan McNaab are not greater than or equal to JA17.

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'm not as sold on the bolded. I think he has built a championship contending roster, but I still think we lack really elite level talent compared to most Superbowl winners. We have lots and lots of good and very good. 

 

Agree 100%.  Beane's done a nice job.  We've got a great QB and a good overall roster.  But it's not the best roster in the NFL.  Not this year.  Not any year.

 

And that's why I don't want to fire McD.  I think some years, he earned more wins than expected from the quality of the roster.   I think in other years, he got about as many wins as you would reasonably expect.  I don't think he's underperformed, but I agree he hasn't always overperformed.  

 

I have more frustrations with Beane than with McD.  When you spend $258 million on your QB, you would think that the GM might protect & optimize that investment with an elite bodyguard.  But our OL has been disappointing under Beane and that holds us back.  Our offense has mostly consisted of one elite QB, one elite WR, and JAGS or worse everywhere else.  

 

But Beane and McD have brought us out of the depths of irrelevancy and transformed the Bills into one of the best (though not THE best) teams in the NFL.  I think it's only smart to let them finish an unfinished job.  

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I want a Super Bowl also and I felt like the thing missing has been pass rushers that make plays in key moments. Not coaching. I know people always think I’m wrong when I say that but last year was our worst pass rushers in the playoffs and it showed. 
 

Give McDermott a full arsenal and we’ll see what happens. I was extremely disappointed Von Miller got hurt last year. 

 

 

McDermott did a lot more than you think. Beane has talked about how McDermott slowly gave Beane the keys and trusted him. McDermott is the boss. Beane is his right hand man.

That’s just not true. They each report to Pegula. Beane is firmly in charge of the roster. McDermott is the coach. You can’t just make stuff up and pass it off as fact. McDermott is not Beane’s boss 😂😂.

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'm not as sold on the bolded. I think he has built a championship contending roster, but I still think we lack really elite level talent compared to most Superbowl winners. We have lots and lots of good and very good. 

That’s fair but it’s as good as the Rams roster. I believe that it’s as good as the Chiefs. They haven’t won yet so your point is fair. I’d say that they are good enough with the right coaching. 

[DrDawkinstein]

11 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

You don’t think McD has any input on that??

 

McD is a defensive HC. He’s Beanes boss…. There is a reason this team has been one of the more heavily invested teams on defense the past few years while ignoring playmakers for Allen… they’ve addressed that a bit this offseason, but not enough IMO.

 

The bold isnt accurate. They both report directly to Pegula. Dont invalidate your other points by fudging the truth.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s just not true. They each report to Pegula. Beane is firmly in charge of the roster. McDermott is the coach. You can’t just make stuff up and pass it off as fact. McDermott is not Beane’s boss 😂😂.

That’s fair but it’s as good as the Rams roster. I believe that it’s as good as the Chiefs. They haven’t won yet so your point is fair. I’d say that they are good enough with the right coaching. 

Beane said it. Obviously now Beane likely has final say over the roster but I would bet their first contracts McDermott had final say. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

That’s fair but it’s as good as the Rams roster. I believe that it’s as good as the Chiefs. They haven’t won yet so your point is fair. I’d say that they are good enough with the right coaching. 

 

In terms of top end talent I'm not sure it is. It is deeper but those teams had more elite players IMO. I think they could win a Superbowl, sure. But they are not so talented that I'd say they should win a Superbowl. And 13 seconds apart I don't think coaching is what is holding them back. 

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Beane said it. Obviously now Beane likely has final say over the roster but I would bet their first contracts McDermott had final say. 

They both report to Pegula. Beane has control over the roster. THAT is the truth. 

Please don’t make stuff up to try to strengthen your point. If you think McDermott is the guy, fine. We disagree. If you think that he has control over Beane, he does not. That is not true.

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s just not true. They each report to Pegula. Beane is firmly in charge of the roster. McDermott is the coach. You can’t just make stuff up and pass it off as fact. McDermott is not Beane’s boss 😂😂.

That’s fair but it’s as good as the Rams roster. I believe that it’s as good as the Chiefs. They haven’t won yet so your point is fair. I’d say that they are good enough with the right coaching. 

This roster has been Super Bowl quality since Diggs got here. They don't lack for talent.

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In terms of top end talent I'm not sure it is. It is deeper but those teams had more elite players IMO. I think they could win a Superbowl, sure. But they are not so talented that I'd say they should win a Superbowl. And 13 seconds apart I don't think coaching is what is holding them back. 

They are a pretty complete roster that has an elite QB. They have an elite WR and an elite pass rusher. They have some playermakers in the secondary. When you go up and down the roster it is as good as most. Trade McDermott for Andy Reid or Kyle Shannahan and I think we have a Lombardi by now.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

I would go with an up and coming OC from Sean McVay or Kyle Shanahans staff. We missed out on Shane steichen.

 

Definitely go OC. Never a DC again.

Edited June 19, 2023 by JakeFrommStateFarm

[Buffalo_Stampede]

9 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They both report to Pegula. Beane has control over the roster. THAT is the truth. 

Please don’t make stuff up to try to strengthen your point. If you think McDermott is the guy, fine. We disagree. If you think that he has control over Beane, he does not. That is not true.

What are you talking about? McDermott has final say over everything Bills related. What do you think Pegula actually does?

 

What exactly am I making up?

 

Best I can find.

 

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They are a pretty complete roster that has an elite QB. They have an elite WR and an elite pass rusher. They have some playermakers in the secondary. When you go up and down the roster it is as good as most. Trade McDermott for Andy Reid or Kyle Shannahan and I think we have a Lombardi by now.

 

They have an elite QB, they have an elite receiver. They have had an elite pass rusher for 11 games of the McDermott era and their previously elite corner didn't look anything like his old self last season and therefore the last time they played with an elite guy in the secondary in the playoffs was 2020. I don't see enough top end talent to believe it is a coaching problem more than a talent problem. I agree that their roster is pretty complete. It is a huge credit to Brandon Beane that in the injury hit year that was 2022 they still won 13 games. I'd take their depth against most others. 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They have an elite QB, they have an elite receiver. They have had an elite pass rusher for 11 games of the McDermott era and their previously elite corner didn't look anything like his old self last season and therefore the last time they played with an elite guy in the secondary in the playoffs was 2020. I don't see enough top end talent to believe it is a coaching problem more than a talent problem. I agree that their roster is pretty complete. It is a huge credit to Brandon Beane that in the injury hit year that was 2022 they still won 13 games. I'd take their depth against most others. 

The Chiefs don't have an elite player in their secondary, or an elite pass rusher.

[Nextmanup]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They have an elite QB, they have an elite receiver. They have had an elite pass rusher for 11 games of the McDermott era and their previously elite corner didn't look anything like his old self last season and therefore the last time they played with an elite guy in the secondary in the playoffs was 2020. I don't see enough top end talent to believe it is a coaching problem more than a talent problem. I agree that their roster is pretty complete. It is a huge credit to Brandon Beane that in the injury hit year that was 2022 they still won 13 games. I'd take their depth against most others. 

What about our 2 safeties?

 

You can't have KC, Reid, and Mahomes BEATEN in their own building, in the playoffs, to send you to the AFC Championship game, only to lose the game purely through inept coaching, and then conclude the problem is talent, not coaching.

 

 

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

The Chiefs don't have an elite player in their secondary, or an elite pass rusher.

 

Chris Jones had 15.5 sacks last year, and has average 11.3 sacks over the last 5 years. That is an elite pash rusher. I want one of those! Hopefully we get more pressure this year, especially when Von comes back. 

[Kirby Jackson]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

What are you talking about? McDermott has final say over everything Bills related. What do you think Pegula actually does?

 

What exactly am I making up?

 

Best I can find.

 

 

Lol, you quote some random tweet from 2017. With all due respect, that is not the case. Beane controls the roster. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

What about our 2 safeties?

 

You can't have KC, Reid, and Mahomes BEATEN in their own building, in the playoffs, to send you to the AFC Championship game, only to lose the game purely through inept coaching, and then conclude the problem is talent, not coaching.

 

 

We have All Pros at safety and WLB and Pro Bowlers elsewhere.

 

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

Chris Jones had 15.5 sacks last year, and has average 11.3 sacks over the last 5 years. That is an elite pash rusher. I want one of those! Hopefully we get more pressure this year, especially when Von comes back. 

He's not an edge tho, he's a DT. You can't have elite guys everywhere on the roster...if the coach needs a HOF DT plus an elite level edge plus All Pros in the secondary on top of an elite QB/WR combo he's the wrong coach.

[Augie]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

We have All Pros at safety and WLB and Pro Bowlers elsewhere.

 

He's not an edge tho, he's a DT. You can't have elite guys everywhere on the roster...if the coach needs a HOF DT plus an elite level edge plus All Pros in the secondary on top of an elite QB/WR combo he's the wrong coach.

 

Pressure is pressure. I actually PREFER it up the middle, it’s quicker and in the QB’s face. The question was do they have an elite pass rusher. The answer is yes. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Lol, you quote some random tweet from 2017. With all due respect, that is not the case. Beane controls the roster. 

That’s when they hired Beane. If you read slowly it’ll make more sense. When Beane was hired McDermott was the top dog. Everything went through him. Beane was in charge of putting together the 53 but McDermott still had the final say. Beane got more control as time went on.

 

Beane says it in an interview. He said McDermott started trusting him and his team more and more. 
 

 

[TampaBillsJunkie]

On 6/17/2023 at 10:56 PM, Donuts and Doritos said:

I hear this guy's available:

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/1yJNCuPwsErJexGo6

 

I was really hoping you went this way. It's tradition.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/515/peter_flies2_adj_680h.jpg

[GoBills808]

Just now, Augie said:

 

Pressure is pressure. I actually PREFER it up the middle, it’s quicker and in the QB’s face. The question was do they have an elite pass rusher. The answer is yes. 

OK. We can disagree I guess...he's clearly a top DT, but I would not refer to him as an elite pass rusher.

[Augie]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

OK. We can disagree I guess...he's clearly a top DT, but I would not refer to him as an elite pass rusher.

 

His 15.5 sacks last year seem to fall on my side of the discussion. Only 3 players had more, and two were by 1/2 sack. That is an elite lass rusher regardless of where he lines up. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Augie said:

 

His 15.5 sacks last year seem to fall on my side of the discussion. Only 3 players had more, and two were by 1/2 sack. That is an elite lass rusher regardless of where he lines up. 

Yes, he has a great year for sacks last season. But on the whole of it I think of Chris Jones the first thing that comes to mind is great defensive tackle, not necessarily great pass rusher. I guess I don't think of many DTs outside Aaron Donald as pass rushers tbh. Like I would not consider Cam Heyward a great pass rusher even tho he ranks decently in sacks/yr

 

regardless there is no issue if you want to refer to Chris Jones as a great pass rusher

[Kirby Jackson]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

That’s when they hired Beane. If you read slowly it’ll make more sense. When Beane was hired McDermott was the top dog. Everything went through him. Beane was in charge of putting together the 53 but McDermott still had the final say. Beane got more control as time went on.

 

Beane says it in an interview. He said McDermott started trusting him and his team more and more. 
 

 

McDermott has ZERO control over Beane. If he didn’t trust him at all it wouldn’t matter. They each report to Pegula with Beane in charge of the 53. 
 

If you like McDermott, the coach, fine. If you like McDermott, the GM, you’re mistaken.

[GunnerBill]

36 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

The Chiefs don't have an elite player in their secondary, or an elite pass rusher.

 

Chris Jones.

33 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

What about our 2 safeties?

 

You can't have KC, Reid, and Mahomes BEATEN in their own building, in the playoffs, to send you to the AFC Championship game, only to lose the game purely through inept coaching, and then conclude the problem is talent, not coaching.

 

 

 

In that particular case it was coaching. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Chris Jones.

Yes we covered that

 

I was thinking of edge guys

[hondo in seattle]

26 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

We have All Pros at safety and WLB and Pro Bowlers elsewhere.

 

He's not an edge tho, he's a DT. You can't have elite guys everywhere on the roster...if the coach needs a HOF DT plus an elite level edge plus All Pros in the secondary on top of an elite QB/WR combo he's the wrong coach.

 

Roger Saffold was a Pro Bowler.  Having Pro Bowlers means nothing.  

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Roger Saffold was a Pro Bowler.  Having Pro Bowlers means nothing.  

I'm talking more about the Micah Hydes 

 

The talent is there

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I’m sorry, I don’t call for coaches that win their division and win playoff games every season to be fired.

 

The season hasn't started.  LOL  

 

But allow me to ask you, do you know with absolutely certainty that this season is going to go well?  

Do you see any potentially looming issues?  

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

McDermott has ZERO control over Beane. If he didn’t trust him at all it wouldn’t matter. They each report to Pegula with Beane in charge of the 53. 
 

If you like McDermott, the coach, fine. If you like McDermott, the GM, you’re mistaken.

In terms of Pegula he’s always said he looks at how Kraft built the Patriots. We all know Belichick ran the show there and basically hired his front office people. 2 of the Bills top front office guys Beane and Brian Gaine were names McDermott gave the Pegulas.

 

It’s my opinion that everything the Bills do runs through McDermott but the quote I gave you was from Vic Carucci who was very tied in at the time.

 

Not saying I like or dislike anyone. Like when 13 seconds happened and everyone was blaming Frazier. I blamed McDermott because there was no way he’d allow a situation that important happen without his input.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

We had our replacement in Daboll, always keep the offensive minded coach over the defensive minded one. 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

In terms of Pegula he’s always said he looks at how Kraft built the Patriots. We all know Belichick ran the show there and basically hired his front office people. 2 of the Bills top front office guys Beane and Brian Gaine were names McDermott gave the Pegulas.

 

It’s my opinion that everything the Bills do runs through McDermott but the quote I gave you was from Vic Carucci who was very tied in at the time.

 

Not saying I like or dislike anyone. Like when 13 seconds happened and everyone was blaming Frazier. I blamed McDermott because there was no way he’d allow a situation that important happen without his input.

I’m not trying to be that guy, but that’s not how it works with the Bills. I know a little bit about how things operate there.

 

Beane controls the 53. McDermott is in charge of coaching. I believe a lot of people are capable of the results that McDermott has produced with this roster. It’s Doug Collins. It’s Dwayne Casey. Do we need a new voice to take the next step? That’s my belief. I don’t believe that he is elevating, or holding back, the talent. He’s a caretaker. The Bills do not win BECAUSE of McDermott. That’s what the great coaches do. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

The season hasn't started.  LOL  

 

But allow me to ask you, do you know with absolutely certainty that this season is going to go well?  

Do you see any potentially looming issues?  

 

 

What type of issues? If they have a losing season there is a real possibility it all blows up and there’s a rebuild around Josh. We could see 6-7 new starters on defense and offense in 2024. In fact it does set up for major changes after next season.

[Gregg]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

In terms of Pegula he’s always said he looks at how Kraft built the Patriots. We all know Belichick ran the show there and basically hired his front office people. 2 of the Bills top front office guys Beane and Brian Gaine were names McDermott gave the Pegulas.

 

It’s my opinion that everything the Bills do runs through McDermott but the quote I gave you was from Vic Carucci who was very tied in at the time.

 

Not saying I like or dislike anyone. Like when 13 seconds happened and everyone was blaming Frazier. I blamed McDermott because there was no way he’d allow a situation that important happen without his input.

 

If the season goes south for any reason, I wonder if Terry fires McDermott but retains Beane or he cleans house and gets rid of both of them. In the latter scenario Terry would probably need a consultant to come in and help him hire the new GM/HC. Or Beane will lead the search for the next HC assuming they do move on from McDermott. I can't see Terry leading the search for the next management team. Despite being the owner, he is a football fan not a "football man". 

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

You can’t say he’s hit a plateau/ceiling until you see how the season plays out with him taking over play-calling duties.  I realize it’s the slow season right now and we need something to talk about. 

 

Well, I can, I did, based upon other indicators.  But at this point what's the sense in arguing over it?  The season's going to play out one way or another, right?   No one's going anywhere before the season.  

 

Is anything that you or I say going to alter it?  

 

But allow me to ask, and hopefully you'll answer the question.  Suppose that it plays out that we go through the season again, make the playoffs whatever the circumstances, and lose either in the Wild-Card or Divisional Round by not playing our best and/or by losing to an inferior team.  

 

Will your stance then be the same?  

 

As to his play-calling on Defense, here's what I'm expecting, about what he did in Carolina, which was an average of I believe it was 17th ranked Scoring D and 13th ranked Yardage D on average, essentially perfectly average, and that with players like Kuechly, one of the league's best then, Davis, Johnson, Addison in his prime, Lotulelei when he gave a crap.  

 

That while also keeping an eye on the offense.  Should be interesting, perhaps I'll be pleasantly surprised, I hope so, but for purposes of forming my opinions I'm big on expecting what patterns and trends have revealed.  That's the only one we have to go by since everyone here says that to date it's all been Frasier.