To all the Fire McDermott Posters, a follow up question..

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Awful?  Based on what criteria? 

Based on being a complete douchebag that no one wants to play for once they get to know him. College is a good spot for him-  the kids play for him for 3-4 years and they leave.  The nfl doesn’t work like that
 

people want mcdermott gone because he can’t win the Super Bowl-  meanwhile Harbaugh is 2-7 in bowl games, losing his last 6.  

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

7 hours ago, AZSanta said:

McDermott has shown himself to be soft and seems to self destruct when situations arise like the 13 second debacle. His in game management is really bad. Calling timeouts at the wrong time, challenging and not challenging at the wrong time. Maybe he panics in these situations? I don't know but I don't think he has what it takes to bring a championship to Buffalo. We need a no nonsense tell it like it is kinda coach that isn't afraid to make mistakes and call people out for their mistakes. His Christian background probably makes him too nice to do things that are better for the team. His record with the Bills is great but honestly anyone would have a winning record with a Josh Allen type QB. 

Obviously I'm not a huge McD fan, but his challenges got better in 2022 I thought.  His time management in games especially before the half is excellent.  I agree he wastes TO's on defense.  His defenses seem to give up too many long 3rd downs but if you look at the stats they are still really good on 3rd down.  I would add his ability to create a short yardage package is really lacking. Bills offense has really struggles on 3rd and short situations.  

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Based on being a complete douchebag that no one wants to play for once they get to know him. College is a good spot for him-  the kids play for him for 3-4 years and they leave.  The nfl doesn’t work like that
 

people want mcdermott gone because he can’t win the Super Bowl-  meanwhile Harbaugh is 2-7 in bowl games, losing his last 6.  

 

McDermott can't even win playoff games. Harbaugh has better playoff record and has taken his team to the SB. I will take a Lombardi even if he is a douchebag.

 

FYI, actually met him once on a street in Amsterdam with his wife. He was very personable and chatted with me and my wife for 20 min or so while they waited for a car to take them to dinner.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said:

IMO, like Frazier, the game had passed Rex by. You think McD is a lateral move,from Rex?

I disagree.

Rex was fine for in game HC decisions. His downfall was the NFL figured out his defense. Rex may have been a fine HC if he had just kept Schwartz and let him run that amazing defense.  Rex built a top 5 scoring offense with a powerhouse run game.  He just could not keep his and his dumb brother's ego out of the way of a perfectly fine defense.  

 

McD as a DC is far superior to Rex.  As a leader they both have good qualities.  I would take McD's style over Rex's but I also think Rex would have managed the Hamlin situation just as well.  He bonded well with the players.  He showed empathy.  

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

The bold may be where the disconnect is. I don’t hate your take on this. McD may have to be replaced at some point, but we agree now is not the time.

 

What is mildly disturbing is the fervor with which some people latch onto this topic. You, Einstein and NewCam have 61 combined posts in the Mike Lombardi (pure speculation) thread. The 4th most frequent poster in that thread had 9 posts (and it is NOT me). THAT tells us something. We get it, enough already. So, I’ll do more of what most people are doing here: mostly ignore it, albeit manually. 

 

But in fairness to me, every one of those is in the context of a conversation with someone.  Not arbitrary posts, and at least one of those conversations was quite lengthy.  I don't recall too many other people chiming into the one in particular, so that "post-count" is a bit misleading in that way.  

 

That's all I'm saying.  

 

BTW, there are plenty of threads that I don't participate in because I have no opinion or because I don't think that they're relevant.  At least not to me.  

 

I see absurd thread titles just like everyone else, doesn't mean I'm going to jump in and say that.  LOL  

 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by PBF81

[Augie]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

But in fairness to me, every one of those is in the context of a conversation with someone.  Not arbitrary posts, and at least one of those conversations was quite lengthy.  I don't recall too many other people chiming into the one in particular, so that "post-count" is a bit misleading in that way.  

 

That's all I'm saying.  

 

 

 

I wasn’t trying to pick on you personally. I don’t disagree at all on your posts, but people often gravitate to things they like. I’m here on a Bills board and on a college hoops board, and never look at, say an NBA board. Likewise, certain threads here draw me more than others. If you look at the McD must go threads, certain people dominate them. We know that to be true. That’s not breaking a rule or a secret trust, it just gets tiresome. And THAT is why they invented the Ignore feature, I know. So I have that option. I’m fine. 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

This stuff doesn’t “get to me” really. Even the games are just entertainment. I read someone had tears in their eyes right before 13 seconds. That is someone you need to talk to. I’m just trying to provide a little balance during free moments on Fathers Day weekend. It’s our son’s FIRST Fathers Day, and that is awesome beyond belief! 

 

I don’t recall the wager, but I’m sure I won so it’s time for you to pay up!  😋

Do you want to go ahead and let him know? 

Talk to me! I'm listening. 

 

You are going to try to take the high road after that comment. Really? 

 

Not upset in the least. Just perplexed at the level of hypocrisy in your statement. 

 

Happy father's day. 

Edited June 18, 2023 by newcam2012

[Albany,n.y.]

20 hours ago, SoMAn said:

After a 17 year playoff drought McDermott has led the Bills to 5 berths in 6 years, including one with journeyman QB Tyrod Taylor. If the Pegulas fired McDermott and hired one of your unproven prospects, it would be a huge gamble. There are numerous coordinators and college coaches who were touted as the next great thing, only to be on the street in 3 years. 
  If that scenario played out in Buffalo, the mafia would be after Pegula with torches and pitchforks. 
I think the expectation that the Bills should have won a Super Bowl is unrealistic. Could they? Yes. But they probably haven’t been good enough yet. 
  The Bills came closest to getting to the Super Bowl when they lost the 13-second game.
  In hindsight it might turn out to have been a blessing in disguise that they lost. Had they gone on to play Tampa Bay and been slaughtered (as the Chiefs were), that 5th Bills’ Super Bowl loss could have been an emotional burden the current squad might never been able to recover from, even though most of the team wasn’t even born yet during the 0-4 run. 
A change at the head coach position could be a disaster. Be careful what you wish for. 

Before McDermott, no Bills coach without prior pro football head coaching experience succeeded as Bills head coach.  The most successful Bills head coaches before McDermott were all retreads.  Now one reason may have been that no hot assistant wanted to work for Ralph when there were other options and other teams were paying more for the hot assistants than the Bills.  But the bottom line is that in the 63 year team history only one 1st time head coach promoted from the assistant ranks has had any success. So, if anyone wants to fire McDermott, be VERY careful what you wish for.  

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

I wasn’t trying to pick on you personally. I don’t disagree at all on your posts, but people often gravitate to things they like. I’m here on a Bills board and on a college hoops board, and never look at, say an NBA board. Likewise, certain threads here draw me more than others. If you look at the McD must go threads, certain people dominate them. We know that to be true. That’s not breaking a rule or a secret trust, it just gets tiresome. And THAT is why they invented the Ignore feature, I know. So I have that option. I’m fine. 

 

I hear ya.  But rather than use "ignore," if I get to a post that I simply think is over the top, I ignore it.  Some people seem to want to deliberately argue with everything that I post, why would I respond to those.  

 

Things can get tiresome if you let them.  About a week ago I stepped away from here altogether for about a week because I needed a break, and rather than risk getting testy with anyone, I simply went away.  

 

Forums are always controversial.  Posting online is a lot different than sitting next to or across from someone at the Big Tree and having a discussion.  Things get lost, contexts are misconstrued, complexities arise as a direct result.  Then things can get out of hand.  That stuff doesn't happen in person  It's part and parcel of discussion forums.  Try going to a political one sometime.  Oy!  LOL  

 

I generally hate forums for the rough reasons stated above.  I much prefer back-n-forth via e-mail, but people seem to like the mass approach.  But that's when things get out of hand.  

 

 

And BTW, when you mentioned post counts before, consider, how many do I have in this thread simply having a decent conversation with you?  By the raw numbers it might look like something else.  Just sayin'.   

 

 

[What a Tuel]

9 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

No, not true at all.  I don't give McD the same leeway because of "13 Seconds," the Cincy defensive debacle, his feigning that he has little to do with it and otherwise not coming clean, the Diggs drama, which is likely far from over, etc. 

 

"13 Seconds" and the Cincy debacle is enough for me.  As I've said, those are high-school coaching errors, despite some spinning it that only the experts can know or whatever nonsense.  LOL  

 

Again, show me where Reid ever did something as egregious as "13 Seconds"?  I've asked this question, what now, a half-dozen times to varying people, and we have yet that it gets answered with a straight answer.  

 

The season's going to play out however it plays out, regardless of what anyone here says or thinks, let's wait and see and discuss further towards the end of the season.  Hopefully it'll work out so that I look like a moron.   

 

 

 

Are you kidding? No one has told you the answer to that question? I mean it isn't about Andy Reid, he clearly has two Super Bowls now, but the guy is not above reproach.

 

How about for an offensive coach his offense led by Patrick Mahomes, Travis Kelce, and Tyreek Hill didn't score a touchdown in a Super Bowl and lost in a not very competitive fashion 31-9? That doesn't go on your radar as a 13 second or Bengals loss level of screw up? Like I said it isn't about Andy Reid, but you guys are right about one thing, winning super bowls sure makes people ignore the other stuff.

 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by What a Tuel

[Since1981]

I’m still waiting for some examples of McD HC where he’s made a tactical or game strategy decision that surprised or turned heads. I’m very seriously asking.

 

(Beane made several very specific trades and moves to get Josh and Diggs—very specific and his)

Edited June 19, 2023 by Since1981

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Are you kidding? No one has told you the answer to that question? I mean it isn't about Andy Reid, he clearly has two Super Bowls now, but the guy is not above reproach.

 

How about for an offensive coach his offense led by Patrick Mahomes, Travis Kelce, and Tyreek Hill didn't score a touchdown in a Super Bowl and lost in a not very competitive fashion 31-9? That doesn't go on your radar as a 13 second or Bengals loss level of screw up? Like I said it isn't about Andy Reid, but you guys are right about one thing, winning super bowls sure makes people ignore the other stuff.

 

OK

 

 

[Ponch]

22 hours ago, Buffalo619 said:

Guy is a drama king. The culture has turned toxic. Superbowl this year or move on. We can find better. 

Sarcasm is sooo funny 

[Sierra Foothills]

There's so many people crapping on McDermott, and yet some posters here are contriving multi-paragraph posts on why we shouldn't be discussing his replacement.

 

At this moment the following topics on the 1st page of The Stadium Wall are directly or indirectly a referendum on McDermott:

1. Mike Lombardi claims tension with Sean McDermott forced Leslie Frazier’s departure

2. What the Bills need to do to take the next step 

3. Your HC choice in SB game 

4. Diggs NOT at mandatory minicamp, McDermott "very concerned" DAY 2 UPDATE: He's back

5. Is Sean McDermott our version of Doug Collins? 

6. Deep dive ( McDermott ) 

7. Gotta give Florio props, he loves to stoke the fire and he’s real good at it. 

8. Colin Cowherd at it again 

9. Is this year make or break for McDermott?

10. Evaluating Head Coaches Methodology, and Applying it to current coaches. 

But we can't discuss who we want to replace him if he were to be fired... right. @ChicagoRic asked the obvious question that everyone's been dancing around. Ridiculous. If you think it's too early to discuss, maybe don't post?

 

23 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Ben Johnson

23 hours ago, Dan in Owego said:

Huge Dave Aranda fan, would be pleased though if it never becomes a possibility.

 

18 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

If Bills miss the playoffs in 2023, I would replace McD with Jim Harbaugh in 2024... I would then target either Harbaugh or Lincoln Riley.  There may be other option available by then too. 

 

15 hours ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

I like Ben Johnson and was surprised he didn't get more love this cycle but it doesn't make sense to have Josh Allen learn the convoluted West Coast language when he's always been in the more-efficient Erhardt-Perkins language. Need an EP guy. I'd interview Mike Kafka.

 

15 hours ago, DJB said:

Brian Daboll 😭

 

10 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Brian Griese the 49ers QB coach. Kellen Moore the OC out in San Diego was given a bad hand in Dallas. My personal favorite Ben Johnson the OC of the Detroit Lions….if he could that with Goff imagine him with Allen.

 

7 hours ago, ControllerOfPlanetX said:

Gruden…it worked for Tampa…..

 

7 hours ago, Einstein said:

He may have already been posted (I haven't read all 5 pages of the thread yet), but I am very high on Lou Anarumo.

 

Ben Johnson (multiple)

Dave Aranda

Jim Harbaugh

Lincoln Riley

Mike Kafka

Brian Daboll

Brian Griese

Kellen Moore

Jon Gruden

Lou Anarumo

 

These are good answers. Such a simple question... glad you guys played. Only one defensive coach but good justifications for Anarumo.

 

It sure beats the "it's too early to tell" and "we can't predict the future" and "no one knows who'll emerge from the pack, posts.

 

And then there's my personal favorite...

 

12 hours ago, PBF81 said:

Perhaps the most hilarious thing about all of it is that not one of us has a single shred of control or influence in the outcome.

 

Can you imagine this message board if we didn't discuss matters in which we had no control over the outcome??? (before anyone's head explodes... this message board wouldn't exist)

 

 

 

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

Can you imagine this message board if we didn't discuss matters in which we had no control over the outcome??? (before anyone's head explodes... this message board wouldn't exist)

 

Exactly right, so why get all worked up about things.  Right?  

 

 

[Pbomb]

“We should have promoted daboll !!”

coming from the same people who wanted to fire daboll too, and the same people who also want to fire dorsey 

[Pbomb]

11 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

There's so many people crapping on McDermott, and yet some posters here are contriving multi-paragraph posts on why we shouldn't be discussing his replacement.

 

At this moment the following topics on the 1st page of The Stadium Wall are directly or indirectly a referendum on McDermott:

1. Mike Lombardi claims tension with Sean McDermott forced Leslie Frazier’s departure

2. What the Bills need to do to take the next step 

3. Your HC choice in SB game 

4. Diggs NOT at mandatory minicamp, McDermott "very concerned" DAY 2 UPDATE: He's back

5. Is Sean McDermott our version of Doug Collins? 

6. Deep dive ( McDermott ) 

7. Gotta give Florio props, he loves to stoke the fire and he’s real good at it. 

8. Colin Cowherd at it again 

9. Is this year make or break for McDermott?

10. Evaluating Head Coaches Methodology, and Applying it to current coaches. 

But we can't discuss who we want to replace him if he were to be fired... right. @ChicagoRic asked the obvious question that everyone's been dancing around. Ridiculous. If you think it's too early to discuss, maybe don't post?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ben Johnson (multiple)

Dave Aranda

Jim Harbaugh

Lincoln Riley

Mike Kafka

Brian Daboll

Brian Griese

Kellen Moore

Jon Gruden

Lou Anarumo

 

These are good answers. Such a simple question... glad you guys played. Only one defensive coach but good justifications for Anarumo.

 

It sure beats the "it's too early to tell" and "we can't predict the future" and "no one knows who'll emerge from the pack, posts.

 

And then there's my personal favorite...

 

 

Can you imagine this message board if we didn't discuss matters in which we had no control over the outcome??? (before anyone's head explodes... this message board wouldn't exist)

 

 

 

And most of that is stupid bs and drama that has nothing to do with McDermott, just the latest person on the bills to be attacked for no reason. 
winningest coach In Bills history, a perennial Super Bowl contender, let’s fire our coach!!! 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

This is just the normal sequence of things. Typical fans and media. When there’s a really good team for a long period of time but doesn’t win a championship the narrative switches from positive to negative.

 

Coaches get blamed first. Then GM. Then QB. 


 

 

 

[newcam2012]

37 minutes ago, Pbomb said:

And most of that is stupid bs and drama that has nothing to do with McDermott, just the latest person on the bills to be attacked for no reason. 
winningest coach In Bills history, a perennial Super Bowl contender, let’s fire our coach!!! 

Let's paint an accurate picture here. You are only telling part of the story. 

 

McD and his coaching staff has been out coached in the playoffs. Absolutely, no doubt the last two years ( 13 sec and the Miami's/Cinci game.) Not to mention the Texans and Jags losses. There's plenty of reasons to begin questioning McD. Some have been calling for a coaching change since last year. This is nothing new. It will continue so long as there's blatant inexcusable playoff coaching blunders like we've seen the last two years. Getting beat is one thing like in KC in Arrowheard 3 years ago. 

 

I don't believe the most optimistic Bills fan would dispute that the Bills have underpreformed in the playoffs. Correct? Should the Bills stay the course with McD or move on? 

 

The Bills have a franchise QB with 5 years of experience whose arguably the top 2 to 5 QB in the league. Yet, they haven't even sniffed a SB appearence. Sure it's hard to get there. However, I think it's reasonable to say fans are disappointed that the Bills haven't gotten there. Ask yourself why. Very complex question with many many variables. Where does McD fit into the equation of 4-5 in the playoffs?

 

Not one person here is disputing McD's numbers. Yes he's the winningest Bills coach ever. Yes they have made the playoffs for multiple years. Yes the are SB contenders. Check, check, check...

 

The real questions thats been beaten to death is can McD lead this team to a SB and win it?  Is McD a difference maker?  Can another solid coach do more than McD? Is it time to move on? Etc...

 

No one knows how any of this will play out. Certainly, there are valid arguments being made on both ends of the spectrum. I think it's a mistake not to recognize the arguments on both sides of the isle. A mistake to dismiss the counterarguments as ridiculous. 

 

In the end, I think its fine to disagree to disagree. Yet, a select few want to sling mud and cross the line. Not cool. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by newcam2012

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

So far yes.  And I agree the loss to TCU was embarrassing especially after what they did to OSU. No excuses for that loss.  Of course he has an NFC Championship win. 

 

What is McD biggest win?  Division round against the Ravens?  

 

McDermott's biggest losses come to teams at least as good as the Bills. Harbaugh's are almost all against less talented teams (CFB playoff to Georgia and 2nd NFCCG to Seattle excluded).

[Buffalo_Stampede]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

McDermott's biggest losses come to teams at least as good as the Bills. Harbaugh's are almost all against less talented teams (CFB playoff to Georgia and 2nd NFCCG to Seattle excluded).

This is what people don’t seem to understand. Losing to the Chiefs and Bengals isn’t something you fire a coach for. 
 

It’s honestly embarrassing that we’re having these conversations. Bills fans need to be better. But maybe I shouldn’t be shocked because reporters use to say fans wanted coaches fired and Jim Kelly benched for losing Super Bowls.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

The real questions thats been beaten to death is can McD lead this team to a SB and win it?  Is McD a difference maker?  Can another solid coach do more than McD? Is it time to move on? Etc...

 

 

 

 

 

Can Josh Allen? Can Brandon Beane?

McDermott has 5 playoff losses. Allen played poorly in 3 of them.

 

Can Beane build an offensive line to protect Allen?

 

We can do this all day. We need to stop acting like McDermott has nothing to do with getting the Bills to the position they’re in today. His defenses are consistently top 10. I compare him to Dungy but maybe I shouldn’t because Dungy couldn’t get the Colts defense to that level. 
 

We’re close. When you’re close you keep building. If there comes a time when the Bills move backwards then this discussion is relevant.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just doing a quick look but I don’t see any recent history of a team firing a head coach, keeping the franchise QB, and winning a Championship.

 

Am I mistaken?

[Doc Brown]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Just doing a quick look but I don’t see any recent history of a team firing a head coach, keeping the franchise QB, and winning a Championship.

 

Am I mistaken?

Gary Kubiak taking over for John Fox after 2014 with Peyton Manning.  Broncos won the Super Bowl in 2015.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

13 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Gary Kubiak taking over for John Fox after 2014 with Peyton Manning.  Broncos won the Super Bowl in 2015.

Peyton Manning’s worst and final season? I guess this would be the closest example. So we’re banking on finding another Gary Kubiak?

 

So if we fired McDermott they should hire a long time offensive coordinator that was a failure at head coach? So someone like Josh McDaniels if he’s fired? Bill O’Brien? Pat Shurmur? Lol

Edited June 19, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Kirby Jackson]

16 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Isn't Sean Payton overrated though? Like I remember reading something where he's had way more bad seasons than you'd expect from an elite coach, even if accounting that they were in cap hell for a bit. 

He is the exact opposite IMO. He won with a great QB and a bunch of guys. Brees played with ZERO skill players that went to the Pro Bowl. Payton schemed guys open EVERYWHERE. 
 

He won a Super Bowl and was the worst missed call ever from going again. Add in the Minnesota Miracle and he could have been to 3. He is MILES ahead of McDermott as a football mind. Payton is a terrible husband and has some other demons but a great coach. 
 

I lived in New Orleans for his whole tenure and followed the Saints pretty closely (you can’t avoid it there). I don’t mean to be so dismissive here when people downplay Payton. He and Brees were the reason that those teams won so often. They won because of him not despite him. The talent was just okay everywhere else. The Bills win WITH McDermott not because of him. 

[Doc Brown]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Peyton Manning’s worst and final season? I guess this would be the closest example. So we’re banking on finding another Gary Kubiak?

 

So if we fired McDermott they should hire a long time offensive coordinator that was a failure at head coach? So someone like Josh McDaniels if he’s fired? Bill O’Brien? 

No but I answered your question.  Fox was 46-18 in his four season with the Broncos going 13-3, 13-3, and 12-4 his last three regular seasons.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

35 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

No but I answered your question.  Fox was 46-18 in his four season with the Broncos going 13-3, 13-3, and 12-4 his last three regular seasons.

Not exactly the same criteria. Manning was an aging QB on his 2nd team at the end of his career. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He is the exact opposite IMO. He won with a great QB and a bunch of guys. Brees played with ZERO skill players that went to the Pro Bowl. Payton schemed guys open EVERYWHERE. 
 

He won a Super Bowl and was the worst missed call ever from going again. Add in the Minnesota Miracle and he could have been to 3. He is MILES ahead of McDermott as a football mind. Payton is a terrible husband and has some other demons but a great coach. 
 

I lived in New Orleans for his whole tenure and followed the Saints pretty closely (you can’t avoid it there). I don’t mean to be so dismissive here when people downplay Payton. He and Brees were the reason that those teams won so often. They won because of him not despite him. The talent was just okay everywhere else. The Bills win WITH McDermott not because of him. 

Why do you think McDermott is miles behind Payton as a football mind? Lol. The Bills defense was a bunch of guys as well. Why do we always diminish players and coaches for not winning a championship? It’s like you either win one or you’re trash. I don’t understand that. Obviously there’s another level but winning 1 championship doesn’t get you there in my eyes.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Gregg]

 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He is the exact opposite IMO. He won with a great QB and a bunch of guys. Brees played with ZERO skill players that went to the Pro Bowl. Payton schemed guys open EVERYWHERE. 
 

He won a Super Bowl and was the worst missed call ever from going again. Add in the Minnesota Miracle and he could have been to 3. He is MILES ahead of McDermott as a football mind. Payton is a terrible husband and has some other demons but a great coach. 
 

I lived in New Orleans for his whole tenure and followed the Saints pretty closely (you can’t avoid it there). I don’t mean to be so dismissive here when people downplay Payton. He and Brees were the reason that those teams won so often. They won because of him not despite him. The talent was just okay everywhere else. The Bills win WITH McDermott not because of him. 

Agree with your post. I'd be so much more optimistic this season with Payton as the head coach VS McD. 

 

Payton is leap years ahead McD on the coaching tree.

 

Can you imagine a Payton lead offense with Allen as his QB? My goodness that is borderline orgasmic. 

 

The Bills chances to go to the SB and or win it would go up substainally. 

 

Instead, we are hoping McD "sees the light" and learns from his mistakes. So far, that's not working out so well unless you are cool with great regular seasons.

 

Damn Payton was there for the taking. Another missed opportunity. 

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

One thing I’ve always found interesting about defensive head coaches. They rarely call the defense while many offensive head coaches call the offense.

 

It’ll be interesting to see how it goes.

[newcam2012]

17 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Why do you think McDermott is miles behind Payton as a football mind? Lol. The Bills defense was a bunch of guys as well. Why do we always diminish players and coaches for not winning a championship? It’s like you either win one or you’re trash. I don’t understand that. Obviously there’s another level but winning 1 championship doesn’t get you there in my eyes.

Winning one certainly does elevate everyone including coaches. 

 

It means you achieved a rare feat and you are automatically elevated to another level. 

 

It proves you can rise to another level. It's a pretty big deal. 

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He is the exact opposite IMO. He won with a great QB and a bunch of guys. Brees played with ZERO skill players that went to the Pro Bowl. Payton schemed guys open EVERYWHERE. 
 

He won a Super Bowl and was the worst missed call ever from going again. Add in the Minnesota Miracle and he could have been to 3. He is MILES ahead of McDermott as a football mind. Payton is a terrible husband and has some other demons but a great coach. 
 

I lived in New Orleans for his whole tenure and followed the Saints pretty closely (you can’t avoid it there). I don’t mean to be so dismissive here when people downplay Payton. He and Brees were the reason that those teams won so often. They won because of him not despite him. The talent was just okay everywhere else. The Bills win WITH McDermott not because of him. 

Not sure how much football you have watched. Payton was pretty much known to be an excellent offensive coach. One of the best in the game. 

 

Him and Breeze were pretty special. The Saints offense was dynamic and innovative. 

 

I believe an Allen and Payton combination would be similar to Mahomes and Reid. Allen and McD doesn't neatly move the needle. 

 

As for defense, the McD defense has been unable to make the needed stops come playoff time. 

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Winning one certainly does elevate everyone including coaches. 

 

It means you achieved a rare feat and you are automatically elevated to another level. 

 

It proves you can rise to another level. It's a pretty big deal. 

It’s an achievement for sure. I still take the entire career over 1 championship when ranking all time greats. Nick Foles isn’t a great QB. Winning multiple championships is what makes you different. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[newcam2012]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

This is what people don’t seem to understand. Losing to the Chiefs and Bengals isn’t something you fire a coach for. 
 

It’s honestly embarrassing that we’re having these conversations. Bills fans need to be better. But maybe I shouldn’t be shocked because reporters use to say fans wanted coaches fired and Jim Kelly benched for losing Super Bowls.

Its the way they lost not that they lost. 

 

They lost the games largely because of coaching. 13 sec No doubt. Cinci game players unprepared and out schemed. 

 

Three years ago when the Bills lost to KC there was no widespread anti McD. It was pretty clear KC was the better team. 

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s an achievement for sure. I still take the entire career over 1 championship when ranking all time greats. Nick Foles isn’t a great QB. Winning multiple championships is what makes you different. 

 

Depends on the player. Eli won 2 Super Bowls and both against the evil empire, but I wouldn't call him a great QB. He was a good QB even a very good QB but definitely not an all-time great. It will be interesting to see if those 2 Super Bowls are enough to get him in the HOF.

[newcam2012]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s an achievement for sure. I still take the entire career over 1 championship when ranking all time greats. Nick Foles isn’t a great QB. Winning multiple championships is what makes you different. 

How can you talk winning multiple championships when McD and Beane haven't even sniffed a SB appearance during their Bills tenure. 

 

That seems beyond optimistic to me. 

 

[Doc]

We'll see how Payton does in Denver and how the Bills fare with McD calling the defense.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

16 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Depends on the player. Eli won 2 Super Bowls and both against the evil empire, but I wouldn't call him a great QB. He was a good QB even a very good QB but definitely not an all-time great. It will be interesting to see if those 2 Super Bowls are enough to get him in the HOF.

Like I said I take the whole career. The 2 Super Bowls don’t tell the whole story, but it does make you think harder about his career. George Seifert is another one, but if you examine his career he was clearly riding the coattails of what Walsh built.

[Doc]

20 minutes ago, Gregg said:

Depends on the player. Eli won 2 Super Bowls and both against the evil empire, but I wouldn't call him a great QB. He was a good QB even a very good QB but definitely not an all-time great. It will be interesting to see if those 2 Super Bowls are enough to get him in the HOF.

 

He'll make it because he was on a team that won 2 SBs and he's got the Manning name.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

18 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

How can you talk winning multiple championships when McD and Beane haven't even sniffed a SB appearance during their Bills tenure. 

 

That seems beyond optimistic to me. 

 

The conversation wasn’t about McDermott and Beane. In fact I didn’t mention them when talking about championships.

 

I poked my head in this thread because of fans like you that have this unrealistic opinion that firing a winning coach somehow gets us closer to winning Super Bowl. 
 

It’s 100% fact that it’s going to be difficult for McDermott to win a championship in Buffalo at this point. It’s also going to be difficult for Josh Allen. After that rookie contract it gets tougher to win your first.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede