RT in First Round

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

What about a RT who could play the left in a year or two? That's something to consider imo.

 

1 minute ago, OldTimer1960 said:

See the thing is, if we believe in "positional value" (and I do, but not as an absolute), then the only positions worthy of a 1st round pick are QB, WR, LT, Edge rusher and CB.  But, what if you either don't need those positions or there isn't a good player at those positions when you pick comes?

 

For sure, if there are equivalent players at a number of positions and you have needs at those positions, then by all means draft one of the highest value positions.  On the flip side, if neither of the above are true, then you are left with either forcing a pick on a player that you either don't need or one who isn't as good as the players available at other positions.  

 

I think there have to be scenarios where you could draft a "lesser position" and have it make sense.  Indeed, every year some teams do just that and I don't think that every team that drafts a lesser position in round 1 is "just stupid".  

 

This team has lots of needs.  Pick a player who can get 1st downs and score points.  RT in the first is "The missing piece" type of pick.

 

That's not where the Bills are.

[balln]

kinds of just running this in circles. at the outset from beanes presser - i was all in on WR /weapon for first round.

 

as more time has passed. I dont care about position anymore. beane just has to get it right. WE need 2 impact players this draft and 2 impact players next draft to get to super bowl in 2 years. were not getting there next year (our schedule is BRUTAL).  von wont be fully healthy/ too late in season.  and we just have too many darn holes. 

 

time to reset the expectations 

Edited March 19, 2023 by balln

[balln]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

This team has lots of needs.  Pick a player who can get 1st downs and score points.  RT in the first is "The missing piece" type of pick.

 

That's not where the Bills are.

i was you a month ago. theres not anyone there at 27. Youre just gonna draft a high bust (for first expectations) potential WR / TE

 

bijan might be only one there at RB - but i just philosophically have a hard time going RB that high. after they picked cook in rd 2

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Exactly… but I think the obvious choice is a pass rusher, safety or inside LB based on their previous tendencies.

i agree. hate to say it (i cringe / die inside doing so) but DL , safety, LB > defense may be the only value impact player here. which is fine. the draft isnt just the first rd. Gonna have to find impact players throughout the draft in all rounds. 

 

what we have at DL right now is just sad. so i can get behind getting it right w this pick

safety > poyer / hyde could be done after this year - we dont have anyone to step in so i can get behind this pick for the future

LB > its obvious. edmunds gone no real obvious choice to fill so i can get behind this too

[OldTimer1960]

11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

This team has lots of needs.  Pick a player who can get 1st downs and score points.  RT in the first is "The missing piece" type of pick.

 

That's not where the Bills are.

I don't disagree, I may be in the minority, but I still hold out hope that Spencer Brown will look significantly better next year after a (hopefully) healthy offseason where he can weight train, practice his position specific skills, etc.  If I viewed Brown as a "no-hope" player, I would be arguing that adding a RT in the first is equally important to adding playmakers in the run and pass game.  My view is also biased in that I don't think that any of the WRs, other than Addison, would be worth picking/good matches for the Bills.  

 

When you pass on nearly 70% of your plays, pass blocking becomes quite important - at least in my view.

[Mr. WEO]

18 minutes ago, balln said:

i was you a month ago. theres not anyone there at 27. Youre just gonna draft a high bust (for first expectations) potential WR / TE

 

bijan might be only one there at RB - but i just philosophically have a hard time going RB that high. after they picked cook in rd 2

i agree. hate to say it (i cringe / die inside doing so) but DL , safety, LB > defense may be the only value impact player here. which is fine. the draft isnt just the first rd. Gonna have to find impact players throughout the draft in all rounds. 

 

what we have at DL right now is just sad. so i can get behind getting it right w this pick

safety > poyer / hyde could be done after this year - we dont have anyone to step in so i can get behind this pick for the future

LB > its obvious. edmunds gone no real obvious choice to fill so i can get behind this too

 

 

I would rather take a chance of a playmaker busting out than an ensemble player.  

 

Also, the "best" O-linemen this crew has drafted are Cody Ford and Dion Dawkins....an All Pro is not coming in Round 1

 

 

 

[QLBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Sweet Lou said:

Could Brown be switched to another role perhaps?  Possible TE?  or maybe DT?

All due respect the NFL doesn’t work like that. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

I'd say if 1 of the big OT's fall for whatever reasoning then it is definitely a consideration, Spencer Brown was not only bad last year but also a liability. He was a project to begin with so at the very least he needs serious competition in the earlier rounds or a FA imo.

Edited March 19, 2023 by BuffaloBillsGospel2014

[Mr. WEO]

12 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I don't disagree, I may be in the minority, but I still hold out hope that Spencer Brown will look significantly better next year after a (hopefully) healthy offseason where he can weight train, practice his position specific skills, etc.  If I viewed Brown as a "no-hope" player, I would be arguing that adding a RT in the first is equally important to adding playmakers in the run and pass game.  My view is also biased in that I don't think that any of the WRs, other than Addison, would be worth picking/good matches for the Bills.  

 

When you pass on nearly 70% of your plays, pass blocking becomes quite important - at least in my view.

 

KC is always tinkering with their O-line.  Significant turnover, yet they win SBs anyway.   They have appeared in the last 5 AFCC Games.  How many routine starters on the O-line have they drafted over that period?  One--with pick #63.

[Dr. Who]

Just now, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

I'd say if 1 of the big OT's fall for whatever reasoning then it is definitely a consideration, Spencer Brown was not only bad last year and an absolute liability. He was a project to begin with so at the very least he needs serious competition in the earlier rounds or a FA imo.

You can get a good RT prospect in rounds 2 - 4. They won't and shouldn't spend a first on the position. Potential LT is a different story, of course.

[3rdand12]

54 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I very much agree with taking an OT with the first pick and I’d be okay with two in the first 3 rounds.  
 

Giving Josh an extra second to throw is the best off-season we can hope for.  If Brown or Morse fall off in production or injury, we can’t afford a drop off with backups.   This alone will allow for better production from our current receivers 
 

For me, it’s OT, OT, MLB.  After that, depth at Safety and a WR.  

where is your guard ? that was the true weakness. Allow Josh to step up.

[Dr. Who]

Just now, 3rdand12 said:

where is your guard ? that was the true weakness. Allow Josh to step up.

I am puzzled why they didn't go after Seumalo. At risk of crusading, I'll stop after this, Matthew Bergeron is a solid round 2 target, because he has positional flexibility and could be used at both RT and G.

[3rdand12]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I am puzzled why they didn't go after Seumalo. At risk of crusading, I'll stop after this, Matthew Bergeron is a solid round 2 target, because he has positional flexibility and could be used at both RT and G.

I have mentioned if we grab a guard, and we should, he might be one who can replace Morse in a year 
Lets us pray that Spencer can meet Beanes expectations 😇 

[Virgil]

13 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

where is your guard ? that was the true weakness. Allow Josh to step up.

I would use one of the OTs as a guard to start, knowing he can kick out if Brown doesn’t step up.   OTs can typically kick inside a lot easier than a guard can kick outside 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

16 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

where is your guard ? that was the true weakness. Allow Josh to step up.

They just signed one. 

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

I have mentioned if we grab a guard, and we should, he might be one who can replace Morse in a year 
Lets us pray that Spencer can meet Beanes expectations 😇 

Bates is a candidate to replace Morse, imo.

[Doc Brown]

They very well could draft a tackle in the first round as it qualifies as a premium position.  I'm still all for drafting the best player available at a premium position regardless of need on either side (other than quarterback) in the first round.  

[3rdand12]

1 minute ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

They just signed one. 

Aware of that, Thank you
do you feel Connor is the answer long term

Or just a better than Roger Saffold ? allowing Bates to play LG , which might be his best position ?

 Do we still have Ike ?

[LEBills]

21 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

KC is always tinkering with their O-line.  Significant turnover, yet they win SBs anyway.   They have appeared in the last 5 AFCC Games.  How many routine starters on the O-line have they drafted over that period?  One--with pick #63.

KC also swapped their first rounder for the Raven second rounder and Orlando Brown which by the value chart was worth about a second round pick. They paid Joe Thuney $80 million over 5 years at LG and just paid Juwan Taylor $80 million over four years. And they hit on their Center pick at #63 as well as their RG pick in round 6 or who knows what they would do there in the future. Andy Reid has always invested in the OLine going back to his Eagles days. We need playmakers but getting 4 out of 5 of our starting lineman to be high performing players helps the offense too.

[3rdand12]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Bates is a candidate to replace Morse, imo.

Perhaps

 and then we have another hole at LG !

Hence ! we need another guard 😀

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, LEBills said:

KC also swapped their first rounder for the Raven second rounder and Orlando Brown which by the value chart was worth about a second round pick. They paid Joe Thuney $80 million over 5 years at LG and just paid Juwan Taylor $80 million over four years. And they hit on their Center pick at #63 as well as their RG pick in round 6 or who knows what they would do there in the future. Andy Reid has always invested in the OLine going back to his Eagles days. We need playmakers but getting 4 out of 5 of our starting lineman to be high performing players helps the offense too.

 

Yes, he in vests in vets, then moves on.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

4 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Aware of that, Thank you
do you feel Connor is the answer long term

Or just a better than Roger Saffold ? allowing Bates to play LG , which might be his best position ?

 Do we still have Ike ?

Conner is 25 and is an above average pass blocker, a football junkie who takes his craft very seriously. 
 

Bates is 27 and is a perfectly good OG, both men can be long term starters for this team. 
 

Ike was re-signed this summer for one year.

 

 

[Dr. Who]

38 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Perhaps

 and then we have another hole at LG !

Hence ! we need another guard 😀

They definitely need to add to the oline, but if you get a guy who could play RT and G, you have some insurance in case Brown struggles as much as he did last year.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Dr. Who

[Ethan in Cleveland]

5 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Not happening. This regime, going back to Carolina has never done that.
 

Drafting non elite IOL and RT in the first round is the best path to being mediocre. 

Lane Johnson best RT in football. Drafted first round. 1 SB ring and 2 SB appearances. 

 

Try harder

[mrags]

2 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

There is a question.

 

That pick makes no sense if they burned a top 100 draft pick on a guy who will be the primary backup LB. Beane drafted him with a plan, I doubt the plan was career depth and special teams. 
 

The 2023 plan at LB will be a heavily discussed and debated topic this summer.

 

Maybe 2023 is the season they move away from the 4-2-5 and start playing more 4-3 than they have the last few years. Then adding a MLB makes sense and Bernard is the other OLB. 
 

If that’s the case, Sewell makes a realistic option in the 4th+ round to play MLB 

[MrEpsYtown]

21 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Lane Johnson best RT in football. Drafted first round. 1 SB ring and 2 SB appearances. 

 

Try harder

Got another? I mean c’mon. You cherry pick 1 dude and that’s it and you are telling me to try harder? 
 

Johnson was also drafted with the idea that he would move to LT, but Jason Peters lasted longer than they thought. It was also an extremely weak first round.  
 

Also if you bothered to read the thread, I actually brought him. So you try harder man. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by MrEpsYtown

[B-Man]

5 hours ago, GolfandBills said:

Campbell will be the pick.  I’d bet on it 

 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

My logical pick in the first round is right tackle as well
 

Still have a man crush on Bijan Robinson, but he won’t be there

 

I don’t particularly like any of the wide receivers in this draft

 

I hate the idea of using a first round pick to replace Edmonds

 

If we’re going to improve Josh Allen’s wall, then we need to start doing it and not just saying it I personally like Connor McGovern but more help is needed

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Got another? I mean c’mon. You cherry pick 1 dude and that’s it and you are telling me to try harder? 
 

Johnson was also drafted with the idea that he would move to LT, but Jason Peters lasted longer than they thought. It was also an extremely weak first round.  
 

Also if you bothered to read the thread, I actually brought him. So you try harder man. 

Hey that's fair. I generally agree with you. I think few people would draft OT in the first round knowing they would only be a RT. I think most OTs in the first round are projected to eventually be a LT or a standout G. 

I guess my contraband point is superstar can be found in the later rounds too. And I don't think position and round should have anything to do with each other. 

To take the opposite approach and prove my point, QBs are always overvalued and team after team blow first round picks on QBs that probably grade out much lower against other players at other positions. 

Lastly, I say just get talent. They need youth and cheap contracts in multiple spots to stay competitive.  

[MrEpsYtown]

5 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Hey that's fair. I generally agree with you. I think few people would draft OT in the first round knowing they would only be a RT. I think most OTs in the first round are projected to eventually be a LT or a standout G. 

I guess my contraband point is superstar can be found in the later rounds too. And I don't think position and round should have anything to do with each other. 

To take the opposite approach and prove my point, QBs are always overvalued and team after team blow first round picks on QBs that probably grade out much lower against other players at other positions. 

Lastly, I say just get talent. They need youth and cheap contracts in multiple spots to stay competitive.  

I hear you. At the end of the day, we all want the same thing here. They have to find good players and try to hit on the few picks they have regardless of round etc. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

2 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

You can get a good RT prospect in rounds 2 - 4. They won't and shouldn't spend a first on the position. Potential LT is a different story, of course.

 

Spencer Brown was a 3rd rounder, Cody Ford a 2nd rounder, maybe we're better at picking 1st round RT. 

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Conner is 25 and is an above average pass blocker, a football junkie who takes his craft very seriously. 
 

Bates is 27 and is a perfectly good OG, both men can be long term starters for this team. 
 

Ike was re-signed this summer for one year.

 

 

Thank you. I am hopeful as well

[Dr. Who]

24 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

 

Spencer Brown was a 3rd rounder, Cody Ford a 2nd rounder, maybe we're better at picking 1st round RT. 

In general, RT is not a position you dedicate a first rounder to. Picking a RT at 27 isn't justified by past failed picks. It is only justified if the player you select merits that high a pick. I don't think it likely the board will fall that way. There's a good chance this is a draft where you trade down if you can find a willing partner. Otherwise, BPA is usually smarter than reaching for need. I want to improve the oline and give better weapons to Josh, but that doesn't equate to taking a fella a round or two early just because he plays a certain position.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

49 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Thank you. I am hopeful as well

Check out locked on Bills and cover 1 Buffalo podcasts, they had awesome breakdowns!! 

[DapperCam]

I hope they sign a vet RT to compete with Spencer Brown. If they draft a first round RT, that signals they are pretty much giving up on Brown.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 minute ago, DapperCam said:

I hope they sign a vet RT to compete with Spencer Brown. If they draft a first round RT, that signals they are pretty much giving up on Brown.

Sounds like they plan on signing a vet RT, funny thing is we are still technically in week 1 of FA, plenty of time for money to drop. 

[Dr.Sack]

At pick 27 I think you go with the greatest positional need, or trade up to get the best prospect value. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

5 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

At pick 27 I think you go with the greatest positional need, or trade up to get the best prospect value. 

I agree with the trade up, we don’t need 7 new players. 

[Dr.Sack]

Just now, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I agree with the trade up, we don’t need 7 new players. 

Seattle and Detroit have 2 picks Rd 1, with the lower pick still being higher than our 27. I’d package up something and go get our ‘guy’ if one is to be had. If that’s Robinson, Kincaid, or WR, I’m fine with that so long as Beane is convinced they can make a big difference. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

In general, RT is not a position you dedicate a first rounder to. Picking a RT at 27 isn't justified by past failed picks. It is only justified if the player you select merits that high a pick. I don't think it likely the board will fall that way. There's a good chance this is a draft where you trade down if you can find a willing partner. Otherwise, BPA is usually smarter than reaching for need. I want to improve the oline and give better weapons to Josh, but that doesn't equate to taking a fella a round or two early just because he plays a certain position.

 

Neither is G but they get taken all the time, the BPA is a myth, we are in serious need of a G or T, there should be plenty rated around our pick. Get the best OL who can keep our QB upright. We can draft all the WR, TE or RB imaginable, if Allen isn't on the field due to injury because we once again neglected to protect him then what good will they be?

[gonzo1105]

7 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I agree with the trade up, we don’t need 7 new players. 

 

We need good young players on cheap contracts. We only have 59 guys under contract with no cap space when we need 90 to go to camp with. I think ideally we'd draft 8 or 9 this year instead of the 6 we have currently.