Sean is not a bad coach, just a bad fit for this team and era

[newcam2012]

32 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

What are you talking about?

 

Buffalo beat both Indianapolis and Baltimore IN the playoffs in 2020 2x playoff WINS!

 

In 2021 Buffalo stomped the hated NE Patriots in the playoffs 41-17. playoff WIN!

 

In 2022 Buffalo beat hated rival Miami Dolphins in the playoffs 31-34. Playoff WIN!

 

Looks to me like Buffalo advanced three years in a row in the playoffs! Three time AFC EAST division Champs! 

 

Yes, they lost to the Chiefs 2x and the Bengals in the playoffs. Buffalo has beaten the Chiefs in the regular season 2x now the last two years. This HC, GM are working on beating the teams they need to beat in the playoffs. Buffalo had some unfortunate bad luck in losing Von Miller to a season ending injury or they might be in the SB this year. 

 

I get it, Buffalo Bills fans are upset because they were the AFC favorites to be in the SB this year. Stuff happens, injuries to the star QB, pass rusher, sickness, snowstorms. Rookie OC who managed to tie the last OCs best record at #2 overall offense in 2022. 

 

This franchise has had one of the very best offenses and defenses for a few seasons now. I trust the GM, HC to get this team to a SB very soon.  

Depends on how you see things. 

 

The Bills have primarily disappointed it's fan base with early playoff exits. Sure they have won playoff games. The bar is clearly different now. Expectations are higher and should be high.

 

I'd argue that the Bills organization has failed to reach it potential. Especially, the last two years of the playoffs. Winning one playoff game really wasn't the goal. The team really missed a golden opportunity to advance and possible win the Super Bowl. They haven't done enough! Your illustration falls far too short in my eyes.

 

They have a franchise QB who is without a doubt one of the best QBs in the league. They have failed to properly build solid pieces around him. Relying too much on him. It's really been a common theme for a few years. Thus, you get the Allen Superman conversations. This year's playoffs more than ever showed the vulnerability of the Bills roster. 

 

The old wait til next year theme rears its ugly head again. Trust the GM and coach to make that Super Bowl. Did you watch the Cinci game? Did you see the 13 second disaster? Trust your eyes not your heart. 

 

Do you watch football and follow other teams? I'd argue with confidence that KC and Cinci are much better teams than Buffalo. I'd argue that teams like the Jets, Miami, Chargers, and Jags have closed the gap on the Bills. The Bills are likely no longer a dominate team. They are not feared or looked at as unbeatable. Yes they are good and still a top 10 team. Do they look like a Super Bowl team? 

 

Doesn't mean the Bills can't and won't make a Super Bowl run. Anything can happen. However, my confidence is dwindling not increasing since its 6 years of Allen and counting. The excuses never end. Trust and wait. I'm tired of waiting and trusting. Every year for decades that hasn't worked out.

 

Fast forward to Beane's press confetence. That was hardly a boost in confidence. Almost seemed like he was giving excuses and telling the fans his hands are severely tied. Not good!

 

The Bills have a myriad of issues to contend with. Cap issues, coaching deficiencies, and holes to fill on the roster. Not sure how this emboldens a fan to have confidence? 

[cage]

I don't really want to read all the multiple pages of responses so I'll make my criticism succinctly:

 

McD is a good coach and the Bills are a good team.  The problem we're facing now is that the team and fans are desperate to WIN a Super Bowl.  We not only have the best QB that the franchise has ever had, but he's also a top 3 QB in the entire league.  Here's the issue and I'll put it on its own line: 

 

This coaching staff, led by McD NEVER gives us a competitive advantage to put the team over the top in a big game.

 

Think of every Super Bowl winner and the coaching on that team was a difference maker.  Belechick with Brady, Tomlin when Big Ben in his prime, Sean Payton (onside  kick to start 2nd half + rest of game), Doug Pederson (Philly Special + rest of game),... and the list goes on.  The coaching provided a difference in the game result.  And going back to Kelly SB years, Joe Gibbs, Bill Parcels and Jimmy Johnson all out-coached Levy+staff to win those SB games.  There's nothing we can point to with McD as a difference-maker in the playoffs.  That's what people are bitching about.

Edited February 13, 2023 by cage

[PBF81]

22 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

What is wrong with you people?

 

13-3 with the #2 offense, #2 defense points allowed, #6 in yards allowed after being riddled by injures not good enough? 

 

So, the team lost in the playoffs...get over it already! 

 

Get over it?   Bills fans have been getting over it for decades.  "Wide right!", "Music City miracle", "13-Seconds" on McD's watch. That's your standard?  

 

Otherwise, allow me to play devil's advocate with you a little bit here.  

 

We're talking about McD being defensive minded, and you're talking about his highly ranked D's in his defense.  

 

Given your position, how do you explain the following: 

 

In 2020, us allowing 38 points to KC, while Cleveland and their 21st-ranked D only allowed them 22, and the Bucs and their 8th-ranked D only 9 in the playoffs?  And we allowed more yards and points than either?

 

2021, of "13 Seconds" infamy, our. #1 ranked D allowing 36 in regulation, while the Bengals' 17th ranked D allowed only 24, and Pitt's 20th ranked D allowing only 6 more with 42, AND with us allowing WAY more yards than either of them?  Let's ignore that "13 Seconds" for now.  

 

And of course this past season, our 2nd-ranked D allowing 31 to a team led by a 3rd-string QB, and 27 to a team with a JV OL?   Meanwhile, the Chiefs and their 16th-ranked D held the same Bengals to 20 and over 100 fewer yards.  

 

A lot of this is perspective.  Many see an established pattern here despite whatever regular season ranking or D has.  Why would that change, particularly as our defensive talent diminishes?  Common sense suggests that it won't.

[Shemp]

21 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

It's probably naïve to think McD didn't consult with Allen about who he wanted and Allen himself said he wanted Dorsey so can you really blame him?

 

Who cares what Josh wants?  Josh is not a baby. Josh wants a great OC, not some guy who's so unstable emotionally, (psychopath?) he can't even coach from the sidelines, he is relegated to the skybox.

[Man with No Name]

mcdermott is fine, but we need a steady leader on offense. if we can't have that without having an offensive minded hC, he might need to go. 

 

we need a tom moore, but tom moore does not grow on trees. 

even if dorsey was great, he would be gone in a year or two. can we really afford to go through that every 2 to 3 years?

[billsfan714]

Andy Reid's coaching redemption wouldn't of been possible without McD and the front office trading the Mahomes pick to KC.  This is not meant to be a Josh vs Mahomes debate.   It's just, do you see Reid going to his 3rd Superbowl with the Chiefs without Mahomes, I don't.

[dgrochester55]

Some tweaks definitely need to be done and I personally think that they should have moved on from Frazier, but McDermott is consistently seen as a top five coach by the rest of the league.     

 

Has everyone forgotten so soon what it was like to have a new coach every two or three years?    If every coach for fired for not making the super bowl, then there would be 30 job openings every year.    Who are we going to replace McDermott with?  How is there person guaranteed under a new system to get us to the super bowl in 2024?   Is there a new inexperienced coach who is a guaranteed instant success?   Would it have been worth paying a first rounder for Sean Payton who has been out of the game for years? 

 

Who is a better fit now that we can realistically get and why?    Ditching a coach off of a 13 wins season is a huge move, justify it and provide us with who you think is a better replacement.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by dgrochester55

[Nextmanup]

Nah, he's just not a very good coach (i.e., in-game manager).

 

And yes, he's also the wrong sort of guy for the era we are in now.

 

Have a look at how many HCs of the playoff teams this were came from the offensive side of the ball.

Have a look at how many newly hired head coaches (this year and in recent years) have come from the defensive side of the ball.

 

Whoops!

 

 

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Depends on how you see things. 

 

The Bills have primarily disappointed it's fan base with early playoff exits. Sure they have won playoff games. The bar is clearly different now. Expectations are higher and should be high.

 

I'd argue that the Bills organization has failed to reach it potential. Especially, the last two years of the playoffs. Winning one playoff game really wasn't the goal. The team really missed a golden opportunity to advance and possible win the Super Bowl. They haven't done enough! Your illustration falls far too short in my eyes.

 

They have a franchise QB who is without a doubt one of the best QBs in the league. They have failed to properly build solid pieces around him. Relying too much on him. It's really been a common theme for a few years. Thus, you get the Allen Superman conversations. This year's playoffs more than ever showed the vulnerability of the Bills roster. 

 

The old wait til next year theme rears its ugly head again. Trust the GM and coach to make that Super Bowl. Did you watch the Cinci game? Did you see the 13 second disaster? Trust your eyes not your heart. 

 

Do you watch football and follow other teams? I'd argue with confidence that KC and Cinci are much better teams than Buffalo. I'd argue that teams like the Jets, Miami, Chargers, and Jags have closed the gap on the Bills. The Bills are likely no longer a dominate team. They are not feared or looked at as unbeatable. Yes they are good and still a top 10 team. Do they look like a Super Bowl team? 

 

Doesn't mean the Bills can't and won't make a Super Bowl run. Anything can happen. However, my confidence is dwindling not increasing since its 6 years of Allen and counting. The excuses never end. Trust and wait. I'm tired of waiting and trusting. Every year for decades that hasn't worked out.

 

Fast forward to Beane's press confetence. That was hardly a boost in confidence. Almost seemed like he was giving excuses and telling the fans his hands are severely tied. Not good!

 

The Bills have a myriad of issues to contend with. Cap issues, coaching deficiencies, and holes to fill on the roster. Not sure how this emboldens a fan to have confidence? 

So it’s not so much the team is bad they just didn’t meet the high expectations of the fans. That’s basically it right

[C.Biscuit97]

To be honest, I hated the McDermott hire because of your reasons. It felt uninspired and not going with the trends in the nfl. Then he hired an awful OC his first year and hated it even more. Then he got Daboll. And then I saw the way he held seem really tough situations and realized he is the best Coach for this franchise and we are lucky to have him.

 

I will say a lot of us glossed over how tough it would be for an OC who has never called plays on any level to do it for a SB contending team. Looking back, and not putting it all on Dorsey because there were good moments, it’s actually a pretty terrible one. That said, hopefully he improves this year. My thing with coaching is you need to get the most out of your talent and a bunch of offensive players regressed. 

[Nihilarian]

41 minutes ago, dgrochester55 said:

Some tweaks definitely need to be done and I personally think that they should have moved on from Frazier, but McDermott is consistently seen as a top five coach by the rest of the league.     

 

Has everyone forgotten so soon what it was like to have a new coach every two or three years?    If every coach for fired for not making the super bowl, then there would be 30 job openings every year.    Who are we going to replace McDermott with?  How is there person guaranteed under a new system to get us to the super bowl in 2024?   Is there a new inexperienced coach who is a guaranteed instant success?   Would it have been worth paying a first rounder for Sean Payton who has been out of the game for years? 

 

Who is a better fit now that we can realistically get and why?    Ditching a coach off of a 13 wins season is a huge move, justify it and provide us with who you think is a better replacement.

 

 

Well said!

 

Hey man, nobody was more pissed off about those 13 seconds than I was. I wanted Frazier gone last year.  McD kept Frazier and look at the result. This season the defense was sort of decimated by losing Micah Hyde, Von Miller among other injuries to various players. Needing to trade for safety Dean Marlow midseason and I'll bet there were talks about trading for Jerry Hughes too. 

 

Buffalo defense in 2022, #2 in points allowed, #6 in yards allowed is pretty darn good considering all those injuries and losing their best pass rusher. Von had 8 sacks in 11 games. 

 

How many times after a game did Josh Allen mention that the Buffalo defense bailed him out, a dozen? 

 

As you point out about McD, who would replace him and do as well without a complete turnover in player personnel?  As it is, it is McD's scheme and nobody knows it better than Frazier. I've also read that McD wasn't happy about anything that happened with those 13 seconds. The Kickoff, the prevent defense and he was screaming about the latter.

 

What most Bills fans complaining here just don't seem to comprehend there is no miracle hire that would improve this team at this point. Fans talk about an offensive mind...WHO? It took Andy Reid 7 seasons to get to a SB with the Chiefs and he was an already SB proven HC. 

 

Look at what this team went through this season, Blizzards, 80 inches of snow that snowed them in so Bills fans were needed to help them dig out just to get to the airport, made the team play a home game in a different city. A multitude of injuries, QB elbow, losing best pass rusher, losing a starting Safety. Losing Dawson Knox's younger brother. That game in Miami in which the team was in 110 degree heat with no coolers. A literal heart attack on the field and this HC knew exactly what to do. 

 

The entire team fell on its face against the Bengals, offense, defense, coaches...fire everyone?

 

Sean McDermott came in 4th in the coach of the year voting for a real reason.

 

If McD were fired, he would be rehired by some team in 13 seconds, no joke. Bills fans would really be crying then. I'm just so glad that Bills fans have no vote in what happens with players, coaches, office people. 

[zow2]

I give McDermott this next season to see if they can get the job done.  At least get to the AFCCG, hopefully Super Bowl.  If they flame out, then ownership and GM should roll the dice and bring in new coaching talent.  Other successful teams have done it, rolled the dice, and it's paid off.  You can't just piss away Allen's prime years.  

[Manther]

On 2/11/2023 at 10:37 AM, KDIGGZ said:

He was a good coach for a team that was routinely 7-9 and "in the hunt." He pushed us over that hump. He did his job. If this is the only coach Josh plays for then I think it will be a huge waste of talent during these prime years

Agreed!

[Manther]

On 2/11/2023 at 11:13 AM, SCBills said:

Agree completely with the OP. 
 

Even more frustrating hearing how “it’s tough to win” or “the playoffs are a crapshoot”.  
 

Ok…

 

New England lived in the Super Bowl with Brady.  
 

KC has been there 3 of the last 4 years. 
 

The Bengals, relative newcomers, 2 years in a row in the AFC Championship Game. 
 

McDermott should get one more year to get us, at least, back to the AFC Championship Game.  If not, and even depending on how that game goes - should we not advance to the SB, discussions of moving on from him need to be had. 
 

 

I loved the OP's thoughts and agree with SCBills too!  We are wasting our good years.  McD is very good for a ok team to over achieve.  But, in an offense driven NFL with Josh Allen as our QB we should be making teams beat us and our offense!  We need a HC to take us to the next level on Offense. 

 

Folks say Josh Allen might be the most talented football player/QB ever, so, why not use it instead of abuse it.

 

And a personal dislike of the Bills, stop being in love with assets on your rotational DLine.  It makes no sense to use so many assets on part time players.  It is nonsensical!

 

22 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Sean and Beane both need to stop thinking that the defense is more important than the offense, and get  the people on board who run those parts of the team to scheme better for the players they have, and as well be able and willing to make in game adjustments when things dictate those adjustments, and that they do so quickly, like with in each quarter. They, and their hires are a bit to rigid in their thinking/approach to team personnel priorities, and schemes, because, (as we all know) you win by scoring more points than your opponents score…,

 

GO  BILLS!!!

Agreed

[Manther]

3 hours ago, cage said:

I don't really want to read all the multiple pages of responses so I'll make my criticism succinctly:

 

McD is a good coach.  The problem we're facing now is that the team and fans are desperate to WIN a Super Bowl.  We have the best QB that the franchise has ever had and he's a top 3 QB in the league.  Here's the issue and I'll put it on its own line: 

 

This coaching staff, led by McD NEVER gives us an advantage to put the team over the top in a big game.

 

Think of every Super Bowl winner and the coaching on that team was a difference maker.  Belechick with Brady, Tomlin when Big Ben in his prime, Sean Payton (onside  kick to start 2nd half + rest of game), Doug Peterson (Philly Special + rest of game),... and the list goes on.  The coaching was a difference in the game result.  And going back to Kelly SB years, Joe Gibbs, Bill Parcels and Jimmy Johnson all out-coached Bills to win the game.  There's nothing we can point with McD as a difference-maker in the playoffs.  That's what people are bitching about.

Agreed!

19 hours ago, uticaclub said:

I understand it takes some coaches a decade+ to win one, but Allen isn't going to be here in 10 years, probably not even 5, we can't sit on our ***** waiting to see McD figures it out. The clock is ticking with Allen.

Agreed!

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

On 2/11/2023 at 10:27 AM, Billsflyer12 said:

Having a defensive head coach in a offensive/QB era is a real problem in 2 ways.

 

1). Continuity on offense.  If OC is good he is hired elsewhere, if OC is bad he is eventually fired.  Hired or fired is bad for QB and offensive consistency.  The QB and a OC Head Coach is the stability in this current young gun QB era that works the best.  7 of final 8 in this year’s playoffs were this setup.

 

2). HOF QB Steve Young talked about this recently and it was fascinating.  Basically he said having a defensive coach as head coach was a problem for the offense because his natural or maybe even unconscious traits are to make decisions that protect their defense.  I had never thought of it like this.  For me in playoffs you definitely see McDermott defaulting to this thinking, much to the detriment of the offense and team in general.  His game management decisions, either punt/go, FG/go or timeouts for example lean heavily toward protecting the defense.  His natural instincts in pressure moments are to trust a stop more than trust Josh to get 2 or 6 yds on 4th.

 

Sean is a good coach and likely a better man.  It’s just how he fits into this era and with how our team is built.

 

Not agreeing or disagreeing with the title of the thread being an issue or not, but to Youngs comments, wouldn't Steve assume a defensive player would feel the same about an offensive HC?  Coming form a QB I take his comments with a grain of salt.

[OldTimer1960]

On 2/11/2023 at 10:47 AM, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Got smoked. But who's counting 

If you want to deny that the many problems they faced this year - decimated secondary, loss of a home game to blizzard, another blizzard that disrupted travel, Allen elbow injury, culminated by Hamlin flat-lining on the field - finally caught up with them against a very good Bengals team, then that is up to you.  
 

I think that they showed amazing perseverance and resolve this season.

[Mango]

I like McDermott. I think he’s a pretty good coach. But sometimes good coaches lose rosters and I think McD is really toeing the line. If he stays long term he’ll have to pull the team back. 

[McBean]

McDermott did a good job getting us to this point. Although I’d say Josh did the heavy lifting.

 

how can we go from good to great?

 

You let McDermott go is how. You replace him with a bright young offensive minded coach..like a Ben Johnson 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

On 2/11/2023 at 10:43 AM, Success said:

People used to think of Reid the same way some talk about McD now.  Philly fans couldn't wait to get him out of town at a certain point.  Could coach a great regular season, but couldn't win "when it counted."

 

He's obviously a good coach.  If fans want to hold out for a "great" one, we might be waiting decades.  

Great do what Philadelphia did. Get rid of McD and go find a coach to win the SuperBowl