ArdmoreRyno Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) Honestly sick of watching our quarter billion dollar QB run for his life on every play. When Josh has time to throw the ball, he might be one of the best QB's in league history... but we've invested so much into building a defense to stop Kansas City, which has been great during the regular season, we've done nothing to protect JA. I absolutely love Dion, but he's really-really bad. I just watched the edited down replay from the NFL today and he held or was smoked on EVERY DOWN. It's been an issue all for him. Somehow he's graded 24th in regards to tackles by PFF. Let's review our draft picks for our OL the past few years... 2022 Luke Tenuta - 6th round - released in the pre-season 2021 Spencer Brown - 3rd round - allowed 36 QB pressures in 2021. Allowed 42 pressures in 2022. He's currently ranked 76th in the NFL at the tackle position. There are teams with 4 tackles ranked higher than Spencer. Tommy Doyle - 5th round - Has never started in 2 years. Tore his ACL this year against Miami. His pass blocking grade is worse than Spencer's Jack Anderson - 7th ground - Practice squad and now he's on the Giants roster. Was on the 2 deep for a while and graded out better than Brown and Doyle pass blocking in '22. 2020 NONE DRAFTED 2019 Cody Ford - 2nd round - Now with the Cardinals. One of the worst rated guards in the NFL ever since he was drafted by Buffalo. 2018 Wyatt Teller - 5th round - Traded to Cleveland in 2020 for 2 picks (ended up being Fromm and Hodgins). Teller is now one of the best guards in the NFL (2x All-Pro). He's rated 17th overall in the NFL. Side note: Cleveland has two of the best guards in the league with Teller and Bitonio. Let's review the 2 deep.... Dion Dawkins - 24th rated tackle Rodger Saffold - 74th rated guard Mitch Morris - 24th rated center Ryan Bates - 42nd rated guard Spencer Brown - 76th ranked guard David Quessenberry - 68th ranked tackle Bobby Hart - NR (guard) - Only played 128 snaps this year Greg Van Roten - 52nd ranked guard Ike Boettger - NR (guard) - Only played 6 snaps this year due to injury WHY DON'T WE INVEST IN OUR OFFENSIVE LINE?!?!?! We have 2 guys on the team we've drafted since 2018 on the line. TWO. I won't even begin to go over who has been drafted for other teams that are solid starters now, after some of our busts draft picks. FREE AGENTS Ben Powers - G - Baltimore Isaac Seumalo - G - Philly Dalton Risner - G - Denver Mike McGlinchey - T - SF Orlando Brown Jr. - T - KC Kaleb McGary - T - Atlanta Jawaan Taylor - T - Jax Kelvin Beachum - T - Arizona Edited January 23, 2023 by ArdmoreRyno 6 11 3 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) All of the resources go to McD’s silly defense. I don’t think Beane has any say. 5-6 years in and we still don’t have a single good lineman. That’s really hard to do. Maybe they’re just afraid to draft another after the Cody Ford fiasco. Remember when they shot a video showing how much they pretended to want Ford? Yeah, sure that was your target. Lol Edited January 23, 2023 by Governor 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 At the end of the day you have to find guys who fit. I mean the Bengals went out and got a bit time player in L'ael Collins, meh guys like Ted Karras, Alex Cappa, and Cordell Volson in the 4th round and it totally changed their line. It is not about investment, it is about finding good players who fit your scheme. Jackson Carman, the second round pick a few years ago dominated our team yesterday. The Bills have invested money and some draft picks. They really have not found great players. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaneBandit Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Besides can Frazier, this is absolutely gotta be plan 1B. Or 1A. I don't care how you do it but it must be done. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 IMO it's more coaching and scheme than talent, because cinci had a not great line and it got hurt and they put out a trash heap and dominated our trash DL. we obv do need talent, lots of it and fast, but the coaching and the scheme is a bigger and more fixable thing IMO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsgoodtime Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said: Honestly sick of watching our quarter billion dollar QB run for his life on every play. When Josh has time to throw the ball, he might be one of the best QB's in league history... but we've invested so much into building a defense to stop Kansas City, which has been great during the regular season, we've done nothing to protect JA. I absolutely love Dion, but he's really-really bad. I just watched the edited down replay from the NFL today and he held or was smoked on EVERY DOWN. It's been an issue all for him. Somehow he's graded 24th in regards to tackles by PFF. Let's review our draft picks for our OL the past few years... 2022 Luke Tenuta - 6th round - released in the pre-season 2021 Spencer Brown - 3rd round - allowed 36 QB pressures in 2021. Allowed 42 pressures in 2022. He's currently ranked 76th in the NFL at the tackle position. There are teams with 4 tackles ranked higher than Spencer. Tommy Doyle - 5th round - Has never started in 2 years. Tore his ACL this year against Miami. His pass blocking grade is worse than Spencer's Jack Anderson - 7th ground - Practice squad and now he's on the Giants roster. Was on the 2 deep for a while and graded out better than Brown and Doyle pass blocking in '22. 2020 NONE DRAFTED 2019 Cody Ford - 2nd round - Now with the Cardinals. One of the worst rated guards in the NFL ever since he was drafted by Buffalo. 2018 Wyatt Teller - 5th round - Traded to Cleveland in 2020 for 2 picks (ended up being Fromm and Hodgins). Teller is now one of the best guards in the NFL (2x All-Pro). He's rated 17th overall in the NFL. Side note: Cleveland has two of the best guards in the league with Teller and Bitonio. Let's review the 2 deep.... Dion Dawkins - 24th rated tackle Rodger Saffold - 74th rated guard Mitch Morris - 24th rated center Ryan Bates - 42nd rated guard Spencer Brown - 76th ranked guard David Quessenberry - 68th ranked tackle Bobby Hart - NR (guard) - Only played 128 snaps this year Greg Van Roten - 52nd ranked guard Ike Boettger - NR (guard) - Only played 6 snaps this year due to injury WHY DON'T WE INVEST IN OUR OFFENSIVE LINE?!?!?! We have 2 guys on the team we've drafted since 2018 on the line. TWO. I won't even begin to go over who has been drafted for other teams that are solid starters now, after some of our busts draft picks. Outside of Allen, maybe Edmunds, they have failed miserably drafting. Wasted tons of high draft capital for nothing on defense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yobogoya! Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Of note is that this regime has acquired only one lineman of any exceptional talent in five years… and summarily shipped him away to another team. Good grief, man… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low Positive Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 A bunch of years ago, Cowherd quoted an anonymous NFL scout saying the OL is the hardest position group to project to the NFL from college. This was due to the proliferation of single read spread offenses in college. No one is asked to hold a block while a QB runs through his progressions. The OTs that are easy to project go in the top of the first round while the others are all crapshoots. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said: Honestly sick of watching our quarter billion dollar QB run for his life on every play. When Josh has time to throw the ball, he might be one of the best QB's in league history... but we've invested so much into building a defense to stop Kansas City, which has been great during the regular season, we've done nothing to protect JA. I absolutely love Dion, but he's really-really bad. I just watched the edited down replay from the NFL today and he held or was smoked on EVERY DOWN. It's been an issue all for him. Somehow he's graded 24th in regards to tackles by PFF. Let's review our draft picks for our OL the past few years... 2022 Luke Tenuta - 6th round - released in the pre-season 2021 Spencer Brown - 3rd round - allowed 36 QB pressures in 2021. Allowed 42 pressures in 2022. He's currently ranked 76th in the NFL at the tackle position. There are teams with 4 tackles ranked higher than Spencer. Tommy Doyle - 5th round - Has never started in 2 years. Tore his ACL this year against Miami. His pass blocking grade is worse than Spencer's Jack Anderson - 7th ground - Practice squad and now he's on the Giants roster. Was on the 2 deep for a while and graded out better than Brown and Doyle pass blocking in '22. 2020 NONE DRAFTED 2019 Cody Ford - 2nd round - Now with the Cardinals. One of the worst rated guards in the NFL ever since he was drafted by Buffalo. 2018 Wyatt Teller - 5th round - Traded to Cleveland in 2020 for 2 picks (ended up being Fromm and Hodgins). Teller is now one of the best guards in the NFL (2x All-Pro). He's rated 17th overall in the NFL. Side note: Cleveland has two of the best guards in the league with Teller and Bitonio. Let's review the 2 deep.... Dion Dawkins - 24th rated tackle Rodger Saffold - 74th rated guard Mitch Morris - 24th rated center Ryan Bates - 42nd rated guard Spencer Brown - 76th ranked guard David Quessenberry - 68th ranked tackle Bobby Hart - NR (guard) - Only played 128 snaps this year Greg Van Roten - 52nd ranked guard Ike Boettger - NR (guard) - Only played 6 snaps this year due to injury WHY DON'T WE INVEST IN OUR OFFENSIVE LINE?!?!?! We have 2 guys on the team we've drafted since 2018 on the line. TWO. I won't even begin to go over who has been drafted for other teams that are solid starters now, after some of our busts draft picks. They overrated Saffold. They thought they were getting a one year fix @ LG. They thought wrong. Brown was drafted to be our RT. He’s 6’8 and has back problems. They were hoping he’d be a solid RT. They were wrong. Bates looked to be an emerging starter. We retained him. He was below average. Morse and Dawkins are solid starters. Neither are great. 2 poor players- 1 below average player and 2 solid starters + a rookie OC that doesn’t really seem to have a plan = going home early. so now what? Get a legit LG and RT. Let brown be our swing tackle. Might have to replace Morse too. Beane has his work cut out for him. Drafting OL doesn’t seem to be something our FO does well and we don’t have much $ until we start mortgaging the future. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said: Dion Dawkins - 24th rated tackle Rodger Saffold - 74th rated guard Mitch Morris - 24th rated center Ryan Bates - 42nd rated guard Spencer Brown - 76th ranked guard I think you mean 76th ranked Tackle for Brown. Still ... horrible numbers (I mentioned this in the bumped Orlovsky thread), and it's not like the eye test disagrees. One of the other issues: unwillingness to adapt during the season. Saffold started bad, was bad in the middle, and if possible even worse at the end. A sub-replacement level player this year, which means "find some guy on someone's practice squad and see if he can do better." Morris helped us a lot when he got here, but 24th rated Center is out of, umm, 32 starting Centers. Brown is a failed project. I thought that would become apparent early this year. It did, but then Quessenberry was just as bad, so there really wasn't anyone else to turn to. It is a garbage line with only one keeper (Dawkins), and even he is at best a bit better than average. 1 minute ago, NewEra said: Brown was drafted to be our RT. He’s 6’8 and has back problems. They were hoping he’d be a solid RT. They were wrong. Exactly. From Brown's NFL scouting report pre-draft: Brown was a first-team all-state pick as a prep after catching seven touchdown passes and racking up 17 quarterback sacks. He was also an all-conference pick in basketball and baseball, so Panthers coaches decided to take that size and athleticism and make him an offensive lineman. After redshirting 2016 to learn the position and get bigger, Brown started five games at right tackle before suffering a season-ending injury. He started 12 of 13 games played at that spot in 2018 before becoming a second-team All-Missouri Valley Football Conference selection as a 14-game starter at right tackle his junior year. UNI postponed its 2020 fall football season until the spring, but Brown decided to move on to the next level and accepted an invitation to the Senior Bowl He's a long, lean basketball player/TE (until he started trying to pump himself up to NFL tackle size) guy who really seems to have hit his ceiling. A project that isn't working, and they've stuck with him far too long. Projects like that shouldn't be plugged into an O line with an expensive franchise QB to protect on a team that is built to win today. They should have a chance to develop on some Texans type team. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorquemada Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 I realize you can't replace the entire OL in one offseason. Let's say we can keep 2 guys, who are they? Is Dorkins worth keeping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
<bills4life> Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: I think you mean 76th ranked Tackle for Brown. Still ... horrible numbers (I mentioned this in the bumped Orlovsky thread), and it's not like the eye test disagrees. One of the other issues: unwillingness to adapt during the season. Saffold started bad, was bad in the middle, and if possible even worse at the end. A sub-replacement level player this year, which means "find some guy on someone's practice squad and see if he can do better." Morris helped us a lot when he got here, but 24th rated Center is out of, umm, 32 starting Centers. Brown is a failed project. I thought that would become apparent early this year. It did, but then Quessenberry was just as bad, so there really wasn't anyone else to turn to. It is a garbage line with only one keeper (Dawkins), and even he is at best a bit better than average. Seems like a fair assessment. I pull a kc last year and redo the entire line. Maybe keep Dawkins and move him to rt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Nice post OP thanks. It truly looks just as worse here as my eyes have been telling me all year. I start with new tackles... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, dorquemada said: I realize you can't replace the entire OL in one offseason. Let's say we can keep 2 guys, who are they? Is Dorkins worth keeping? Dawkins and Bates stay because there is too much dead cap when you cut them. I think they will have to cut Morse to open something like 8 million in Cap Space. If that is the case you move Bates to center. They probably stick with Brown, then you have to find two guards. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billz4ever Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 29 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said: Honestly sick of watching our quarter billion dollar QB run for his life on every play. When Josh has time to throw the ball, he might be one of the best QB's in league history... but we've invested so much into building a defense to stop Kansas City, which has been great during the regular season, we've done nothing to protect JA. I absolutely love Dion, but he's really-really bad. I just watched the edited down replay from the NFL today and he held or was smoked on EVERY DOWN. It's been an issue all for him. Somehow he's graded 24th in regards to tackles by PFF. Let's review our draft picks for our OL the past few years... 2022 Luke Tenuta - 6th round - released in the pre-season 2021 Spencer Brown - 3rd round - allowed 36 QB pressures in 2021. Allowed 42 pressures in 2022. He's currently ranked 76th in the NFL at the tackle position. There are teams with 4 tackles ranked higher than Spencer. Tommy Doyle - 5th round - Has never started in 2 years. Tore his ACL this year against Miami. His pass blocking grade is worse than Spencer's Jack Anderson - 7th ground - Practice squad and now he's on the Giants roster. Was on the 2 deep for a while and graded out better than Brown and Doyle pass blocking in '22. 2020 NONE DRAFTED 2019 Cody Ford - 2nd round - Now with the Cardinals. One of the worst rated guards in the NFL ever since he was drafted by Buffalo. 2018 Wyatt Teller - 5th round - Traded to Cleveland in 2020 for 2 picks (ended up being Fromm and Hodgins). Teller is now one of the best guards in the NFL (2x All-Pro). He's rated 17th overall in the NFL. Side note: Cleveland has two of the best guards in the league with Teller and Bitonio. Let's review the 2 deep.... Dion Dawkins - 24th rated tackle Rodger Saffold - 74th rated guard Mitch Morris - 24th rated center Ryan Bates - 42nd rated guard Spencer Brown - 76th ranked guard David Quessenberry - 68th ranked tackle Bobby Hart - NR (guard) - Only played 128 snaps this year Greg Van Roten - 52nd ranked guard Ike Boettger - NR (guard) - Only played 6 snaps this year due to injury WHY DON'T WE INVEST IN OUR OFFENSIVE LINE?!?!?! We have 2 guys on the team we've drafted since 2018 on the line. TWO. I won't even begin to go over who has been drafted for other teams that are solid starters now, after some of our busts draft picks. FREE AGENTS Ben Powers - G - Baltimore Isaac Seumalo - G - Philly Dalton Risner - G - Denver Mike McGlinchey - T - SF Orlando Brown Jr. - T - KC Kaleb McGary - T - Atlanta Jawaan Taylor - T - Jax Kelvin Beachum - T - Arizona It's borderline criminal what this coaching staff apparently thinks Josh should be able to work with. If it weren't for Josh's mobility, this year's Bills probably set a new record for sacks taken in a season. 2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBilliams Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Can you believe Bobby Hart played 97 snaps as an eligable receiver? Are you ***** KIDDING ME? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmonkillebrew Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 We gotta rehaul the Oline. Guys aren't getting it done anymore. Protect the franchise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaneBandit Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 12 minutes ago, dorquemada said: I realize you can't replace the entire OL in one offseason. Let's say we can keep 2 guys, who are they? Is Dorkins worth keeping? If he moves to G. But ya gotta find a LT first. Not easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmonkillebrew Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: Dawkins and Bates stay because there is too much dead cap when you cut them. I think they will have to cut Morse to open something like 8 million in Cap Space. If that is the case you move Bates to center. They probably stick with Brown, then you have to find two guards. Who was Morse's backup at C. Van Rotten? Bates? I feel like we've had decent C play when Morse has gone down. Plus, with his concussion history, guy should retire and we can use his cap elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaneBandit Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 13 minutes ago, <bills4life> said: Seems like a fair assessment. I pull a kc last year and redo the entire line. Maybe keep Dawkins and move him to rt. That's possible too, but once again gotta find a LT first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 In fairness the last three games of last season plus the two playoff games, Allen was 113 out of 180 , 62.7%, 1310 yards, 14 TDs, 3 Ints (all in Atlanta game), 2 sacks and ran for 342 yards. That was the point when they switched to Bates on the line. The line they brought back this year was the same as last year except switched out Williams for Safford, flipped Bates to other side, and switched out line coach to supposedly one pretty much everyone here felt was better. Meanwhile they couldn't sack the QB or stop the run all last year. Looking at those two things can't fault them too much for putting resources on S line when you add in limited cap money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
<bills4life> Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said: That's possible too, but once again gotta find a LT first. Indeed. Easier said than done. 😂 That’s why beane gets paid the big bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 I can mostly give Morse a pass because he's having to help a group of OGs that can't help themselves, plus it was plainly evident that they were far worse as a team when he wasn't in the lineup. The rest of them? No more excuses and half-measures. This front office needs to make multiple major upgrades on the OL this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khlax3 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 I don’t see the bills giving up on brown but he has struggled at RT. It’s not common for a G to be 6-8 but they did have Doyle inside during camp this year some so they were willing to do it. Brown seems to struggle out in space even though he is super athletic. could a move to compete at guard help him so he is not on an island outside? Seems like it might be worth exploring because he is not cutting it at RT. At 6-8 311lbs and a RAS score of 10 if he could drop a few lbs could he also play that Lee smith blocking TE role for this team 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whorlnut Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 38 minutes ago, NewEra said: They overrated Saffold. They thought they were getting a one year fix @ LG. They thought wrong. Brown was drafted to be our RT. He’s 6’8 and has back problems. They were hoping he’d be a solid RT. They were wrong. Bates looked to be an emerging starter. We retained him. He was below average. Morse and Dawkins are solid starters. Neither are great. 2 poor players- 1 below average player and 2 solid starters + a rookie OC that doesn’t really seem to have a plan = going home early. so now what? Get a legit LG and RT. Let brown be our swing tackle. Might have to replace Morse too. Beane has his work cut out for him. Drafting OL doesn’t seem to be something our FO does well and we don’t have much $ until we start mortgaging the future. Saffold as a one year solution only really works if you have someone ready to step in after that one year. They didn’t do enough to get other guys in here to learn the system and step right in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, whorlnut said: Saffold as a one year solution only really works if you have someone ready to step in after that one year. They didn’t do enough to get other guys in here to learn the system and step right in. i don’t think that’s the only way it works. it would’ve worked if he didn’t suck and we would’ve won the Super Bowl. If he didn’t suck, we may have kept him next year. Turns out, he sucked and we didn’t win the SB and we can’t bring him back next year. it didn’t work doubly because, as you said, they didn’t do enough to get guys in here to learn the system. Maybe they thought Ike had a chance? Idk….. but what they did regarding the OL failed and it was under a microscope because the key investments on D this past offseason didn’t even play yesterday and those that did were meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) 46 minutes ago, khlax3 said: At 6-8 311lbs and a RAS score of 10 if he could drop a few lbs could he also play that Lee smith blocking TE role for this team Re: Brown. I agree. I think he can be a very useful player. I just think it’s mostly a leverage thing given his body type that makes him unlikely to be a long term solution as a starting tackle. EDIT: Brown was kind of a George Fant type project. Fant had played a lot less football than Brown (he was almost purely a basketball player) but was a tall athletic guy that Pete Carrol saw as a project. Got pressed into action too soon and it was rough. Then started to show some of that promise as he learned the position and bulked up. Then went to the Jets this year where he was horrible … Edited January 23, 2023 by The Frankish Reich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Nate Davis (TEN) is another G I would look at as well. Andre Dillard (PHI) or Calvin Anderson (DEN) might be worth a flier at T. The depth wouldn't hurt if nothing else became of them, but I do believe they would be upgrades to what we previously trotted out this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 hour ago, harmonkillebrew said: Who was Morse's backup at C. Van Rotten? Bates? I feel like we've had decent C play when Morse has gone down. Plus, with his concussion history, guy should retire and we can use his cap elsewhere. It was Van Roten at first, but he had some snap issues, so the next time Morse was hurt they put Bates at C and Van Roten at RG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabden Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 hour ago, TheBeaneBandit said: Besides can Frazier, this is absolutely gotta be plan 1B. Or 1A. I don't care how you do it but it must be done. Plan 1A = Speed Wide Receiver Plan 1B = Offensive Line 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) Brown is Mike McGlinchey. He is an okay player for the Niners who will be a free agent who took a long time to get good. . I really don't see an upgrade to Brown on the FA list. Jawaan Taylor is very interesting guy in my world. Just 25 years old with some more upside to go. Kaleb McGary is probably by far the best guy on teh market. Same deal. long athletic guy who took awhile to put it together. He is going to cost a lot. Outside of McGary or Taylor, I would stick with Brown and let him grow into McGlinchey. Just to add, with all the cap space the Bears have and just a few good linemen in FA, how do you get them to come here? Edited January 23, 2023 by MrEpsYtown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, colin said: IMO it's more coaching and scheme than talent, because cinci had a not great line and it got hurt and they put out a trash heap and dominated our trash DL. we obv do need talent, lots of it and fast, but the coaching and the scheme is a bigger and more fixable thing IMO I respect your opinion very much but I have been hearing the same sad song for almost 30 years. Remember when Mouse McNally was going to make our OL great? Folks were saying that it was only bad because of the "scheme." Yeah well the line got worse with McNally. Levy and Jauron obviously valued the secondary above all else. Even Butler drafted Leodis McKelvin in round 1, passing on 2 great blockers who were desperately needed. McDermott? As I said in another thread, he is a bald Dick Jauron. McDermott wanted a corner just so bad he traded away the pick for Mahomes and drafted one. Until I see it, I refuse to believe that the Bills will ever place adequate resources into blocking. Our blockers were beaten half to death yesterday. Did you see the Eagles OL trample the Giants? It works. Here were our most recent 1st Round offensive line draft picks: 1) Eric Wood - 2009 (With a pick we received for trading away HOF LT Jason Peters, who we lucked into) 2) Mike Williams - 2004 3) Ruben Brown 1995 Excellent post by the OP. Edited January 23, 2023 by Bill from NYC 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Bill from NYC said: I respect your opinion very much but I have been hearing the same sad song for almost 30 years. Remember when Mouse McNally was going to make our OL great? Folks were saying that it was only bad because of the "scheme." Yeah well the line got worse with McNally. Levy and Jauron obviously valued the secondary above all else. Even Butler drafted Leodis McKelvin, passing on 2 great blockers who were desperately needed. McDermott? As I said in another thread, he is a bald Dick Jauron. McDermott wanted a corner just so bad he traded away the pick for Mahomes and drafted one. Until I see it, I refuse to believe that the Bills will ever place adequate resources into blocking. Our blockers were beaten half to death yesterday. Did you see the Eagles OL trample the Giants? It works. Here were our most recent 1st Round offensive line draft picks: 1) Eric Wood - 2009 (With a pick we received for trading away HOF LT Jason Peters, who we lucked into) 2) Mike Williams - 2004 3) Ruben Brown 1995 Excellent post by the OP. well, i did type that we need OL talent, and fast, but i honestly think our scheme and planning is the biggest issue. cinci didn't have better OL talent than us yesterday w the scrubs lining up, but they beat us because they were confident, prepared, and had a plan to attack us. our team was emotionally spent, didn't practice enough during the week, and had a foolish dumb plan that didn't adjust at all for what cinci was doing nor for the weather. line talent is needed big time, but our scheme upfront has to change on both sides of the ball or we will get a similar exit next year. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsgoodtime Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 If I'm Terry and they even mention a Defensive pick in the top 3, im firing them on the spot 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBilliams Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 hour ago, dorquemada said: I realize you can't replace the entire OL in one offseason. Let's say we can keep 2 guys, who are they? Is Dorkins worth keeping? Morse and Dawkins you keep. The rest can be fired into the sun 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: Here were our most recent 1st Round offensive line draft picks: 1) Eric Wood - 2009 (With a pick we received for trading away HOF LT Jason Peters, who we lucked into) 2) Mike Williams - 2004 3) Ruben Brown 1995 That’s just astounding. THREE first round O line picks in 27 years? No wonder why we always seem to have O line issues. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsgoodtime Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said: Honestly sick of watching our quarter billion dollar QB run for his life on every play. When Josh has time to throw the ball, he might be one of the best QB's in league history... but we've invested so much into building a defense to stop Kansas City, which has been great during the regular season, we've done nothing to protect JA. I absolutely love Dion, but he's really-really bad. I just watched the edited down replay from the NFL today and he held or was smoked on EVERY DOWN. It's been an issue all for him. Somehow he's graded 24th in regards to tackles by PFF. Let's review our draft picks for our OL the past few years... 2022 Luke Tenuta - 6th round - released in the pre-season 2021 Spencer Brown - 3rd round - allowed 36 QB pressures in 2021. Allowed 42 pressures in 2022. He's currently ranked 76th in the NFL at the tackle position. There are teams with 4 tackles ranked higher than Spencer. Tommy Doyle - 5th round - Has never started in 2 years. Tore his ACL this year against Miami. His pass blocking grade is worse than Spencer's Jack Anderson - 7th ground - Practice squad and now he's on the Giants roster. Was on the 2 deep for a while and graded out better than Brown and Doyle pass blocking in '22. 2020 NONE DRAFTED 2019 Cody Ford - 2nd round - Now with the Cardinals. One of the worst rated guards in the NFL ever since he was drafted by Buffalo. 2018 Wyatt Teller - 5th round - Traded to Cleveland in 2020 for 2 picks (ended up being Fromm and Hodgins). Teller is now one of the best guards in the NFL (2x All-Pro). He's rated 17th overall in the NFL. Side note: Cleveland has two of the best guards in the league with Teller and Bitonio. Let's review the 2 deep.... Dion Dawkins - 24th rated tackle Rodger Saffold - 74th rated guard Mitch Morris - 24th rated center Ryan Bates - 42nd rated guard Spencer Brown - 76th ranked guard David Quessenberry - 68th ranked tackle Bobby Hart - NR (guard) - Only played 128 snaps this year Greg Van Roten - 52nd ranked guard Ike Boettger - NR (guard) - Only played 6 snaps this year due to injury WHY DON'T WE INVEST IN OUR OFFENSIVE LINE?!?!?! We have 2 guys on the team we've drafted since 2018 on the line. TWO. I won't even begin to go over who has been drafted for other teams that are solid starters now, after some of our busts draft picks. FREE AGENTS Ben Powers - G - Baltimore Isaac Seumalo - G - Philly Dalton Risner - G - Denver Mike McGlinchey - T - SF Orlando Brown Jr. - T - KC Kaleb McGary - T - Atlanta Jawaan Taylor - T - Jax Kelvin Beachum - T - Arizona You can also add Wr to that list. A 5th rounder dont really move the needle in that regard. Either they change their mentality right now, or they die with their failures at defense and wasted draft capital 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, colin said: well, i did type that we need OL talent, and fast, but i honestly think our scheme and planning is the biggest issue. cinci didn't have better OL talent than us yesterday w the scrubs lining up, but they beat us because they were confident, prepared, and had a plan to attack us. our team was emotionally spent, didn't practice enough during the week, and had a foolish dumb plan that didn't adjust at all for what cinci was doing nor for the weather. line talent is needed big time, but our scheme upfront has to change on both sides of the ball or we will get a similar exit next year. I don't deny that the scheme sucks. I just don't think that the Bills ever really cared about blocking. I think that it goes back to Ralph wanting to draft running backs to put "fannies in the seats," and then the Levy/Jauron "play not to lose" mentality which focused primarily on defensive backs. Either way, thanks for the dialogue Bro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billz4ever Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Just now, The Frankish Reich said: That’s just astounding. THREE first round O line picks in 27 years? No wonder why we always seem to have O line issues. Yep, we always seem to try and do it on the cheap so we can fill up our roster spots with D-lineman. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsgoodtime Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Governor said: All of the resources go to McD’s silly defense. I don’t think Beane has any say. 5-6 years in and we still don’t have a single good lineman. That’s really hard to do. Maybe they’re just afraid to draft another after the Cody Ford fiasco. Remember when they shot a video showing how much they pretended to want Ford? Yeah, sure that was your target. Lol They let the only good one they drafted go on top if it all! Can't make that ***** up! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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