Orlovsky: Bills aren't as talented offensively as we thought

[corta765]

13 hours ago, TH3 said:

As soon as the Bills get these straightened out….they can string some wins together and make a run to get into the playoffs

 

I am not disappointed in the least with the team. My point was why people are seemingly not satisfied with a 10-3 team that is currently the 1 seed.

 

This team reminds me of the 2019 team with a higher offensive ceiling and better QB play. The defense is rock stout and the offense can do a lot of things and when on point they can truly dominant.

[foreboding]

23 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

I think more than anything, it's Allen being told to stop putting the ball in harms way so often and he hasn't found the happy medium between taking chances and being overly aggressive.  Now he is being overly conservative.

Yeah, but...when davis and lil dirty miss crucial catches every single game, they stymie drives, games and then the cofidence to throw those ball is also diminsihed. That chargers game vs phins was a good example of how great it is to have TWO dependable recievers and a little bad ass for an RB.

[Bob in STL]

The offense is still one of the best in the NFL as evidenced by its 6th in scoring ranking, but it does appear to be slipping in production as the season progresses. 

 

There is a lack of big play talent after Allen and Diggs.   I think the OL is a very mediocre group and the source of many problems.  A stronger line would improve the running game and give Allen more time to find a receiver.  Much of the Bill's success on offense comes from Allen improvising and making plays.

 

The WR group is average, mostly because Davis has not progressed as a #2, and there is no effective replacement for Beasley in the slot.   Knox seems to be an afterthought most games.   The backup TEs are not good, and we get little production from the running backs with the exception of Motor (some games). 

 

How much of this regression is related to the Rookie OC Dorsey and his planning?  I don't know but certainly some. 

 

Still, this offense is very good and with Allen at the helm it can be great on any given week.  

 

Right now, I would say that the defense is the stronger unit and has more depth to deal with injuries.  

 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Bob in STL

[stlbills13]

The running backs need to get better although I don't think they're that bad. There needs to be a better 2nd/3rd wide receiver. The offensive line is really struggling which also takes Knox away as an option sometimes. But I still think the play calling is the biggest factor. 

 

Run the ball more. 3 yard runs aren't exciting or flashy but it at least keeps defenses honest and gets you more manageable 3rd downs. Plus both Singletary and Cook have shown flashes.

 

Davis seems to only be used as a deep threat and then there is the one time a game where he runs a comeback route and gains 18 yards. If he is going to strictly be a deep threat then you need to pull the safeties in with the run game and with short passes over the middle.

 

Diggs is fine. Great actually. But you could scheme him open in different ways too. 

 

I just think we've become too predictable

[WideNine]

14 hours ago, WideNine said:

Why do we have so many Beasley is the answer posts.

 

It was clear that he had lost a crucial step last year, he was often injured, and he could not stick with Tampa after he left.

 

He is retired now, so... time to move on folks.

 

 

 

 

...and now I read on Pro Football Talk the Bills are kicking the tires on ol' Cole.

 

They must be really desperate at the slot position and McKenzie's mental lapses must have worn thin on them.

 

Good luck with that and good luck to Cole. Other than his inability to steer clear of social media controversy, the guy was a tough SOB.

 

If he can pass physicals, he is a better option than a raw rookie or a mistake prone Isaiah.

 

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

24 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

...and now I read on Pro Football Talk the Bills are kicking the tires on ol' Cole.

 

They must be really desperate at the slot position and McKenzie's mental lapses must have worn thin on them.

 

Good luck with that and good luck to Cole. Other than his inability to steer clear of social media controversy, the guy was a tough SOB.

 

If he can pass physicals, he is a better option than a raw rookie or a mistake prone Isaiah.

 

 

 

 

 

Agree 

[StHustle]

9 hours ago, Locomark said:

This is 100% because Gabe Davis is overrated. He isn’t usually open. 

Crazy how some fans refuse to consider that fact he’s playing on a bum ankle. He actually gets open a lot when you consider that fact. When healthy he is a top caliber #2 and has proven that.

[PrimeTime101]

This just changed a bit with Brown and Beasley back. These 2 have one or 2 more years left in them. and they are going into the stretch pretty healthy

[appoo]

Don’t think Orlovsky is wrong, but the real question is - are the bills talented enough on offense to win a SB? 10-3 against this schedule suggests yes. 
 

There isn’t an easy fix to this either. Dion Dawkins is an above average LT rather than top 10, Morse is really good, everyone else on the line is poor to average. They’re barely good enough against decent DLines to protect Josh, and open some holes.

I’m still open to Davis being legit though, and thinking McKenzie is good as well along with Knox.  I think there’s some issues with game planning on offense where somehow these dudes are being limited. It also might just come down to Dorsey no longer trusting his OLine and thus dampening the game plan 

 

But I don’t know that you can remake an entire OLine in a single off-season when you’re gonna be drafting towards the end of the first, and you have a huge amount of money going to like 8-10 players, including a 40M QB

Edited December 13, 2022 by appoo

[Billz4ever]

52 minutes ago, appoo said:

Don’t think Orlovsky is wrong, but the real question is - are the bills talented enough on offense to win a SB? 10-3 against this schedule suggests yes. 
 

There isn’t an easy fix to this either. Dion Dawkins is an above average LT rather than top 10, Morse is really good, everyone else on the line is poor to average. They’re barely good enough against decent DLines to protect Josh, and open some holes.

I’m still open to Davis being legit though, and thinking McKenzie is good as well along with Knox.  I think there’s some issues with game planning on offense where somehow these dudes are being limited. It also might just come down to Dorsey no longer trusting his OLine and thus dampening the game plan 

 

But I don’t know that you can remake an entire OLine in a single off-season when you’re gonna be drafting towards the end of the first, and you have a huge amount of money going to like 8-10 players, including a 40M QB

The good news is most starting O lineman in this league (and some pretty good ones too) weren't taken in the first round.  There's talent to be had in the 2nd round and later, you just need to have the scouting to find it and some luck on your side too.

 

WR on the other hand, you're going to find more the elite-type talent at the top. Not to say you can't find steals later because you most certainly can, but elite receivers are more of a premium. 

 

We need both either way. We need to protect Josh and give him legit weapons to throw to besides Diggs.

[Chaos]

16 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

We have more invested on defense than the chiefs…we will see if it pays off or not. A good defense can help a qb out as much as skill position players. 

Not really any evidence of that in recent years in terms of wins and losses. Offense wins regular season games. Offense wins Championships. Offense wins Super Bowls.  Thats the rule.  There are a small handful of exceptions in this century to prove the rule. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

On 12/12/2022 at 10:04 AM, Royale with Cheese said:

I am definitely on the train that we need more pass catchers.  I thought Davis and McKenzie would fill in fine.  Davis finally getting the #2 position and thought McKenzie would give us the YAC element from the slot.

 

Both have been disappointments.  #2 needs to be upgraded but we can't do that this year..  McKenzie needs to sit.  I can't wait for Crowder to come back or move Shakir to full time slot.  I have no faith in McKenzie and he scares me that he's going to have a ball bounce off his pads, go in the air and it becomes a pick 6.

 

Can't sit mckenzie imo.  He's one of our few red zone weapons whos actually done anything.  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

On 12/12/2022 at 10:59 AM, Nihilarian said:

My take is something is off with Josh Allen, his elbow, his arm...something. AND, he was pressing at times while attempting to do far to much on his own. Too many turnovers in those losses!

 

The offense has settled into a "lets help Josh" mentality.  24 rush attempts vs 27 pass attempts. 

 

Josh final game stats, 16 of 27 for 147, 1 TD is what we were used to seeing in the first quarter in the early games this season. 

 

Yet, Josh is still sorta playing hero as he was the leading rusher, 10 for 47, 1 TD.

Although, Singletary was 8 for 39, a 4.9 AVG. 

 

Time of Possession, Jets 34:25 vs Bills 25:35. 2 turnovers were the difference. Fugly win, but a win nonetheless. 

 

Opposing teams have figured out how to defend the Bills offense (aside for Diggs, who is unmatched) This falls on the rookie OC, who is learning as he goes. Look how long it took Daboll to get that offense clicking like he did at the end of last season.

Anyone else recall how bad the Buffalo offense looked against the Jaguars in 2021?

 

That Buffalo defense played "lights out" and really carried this game IMO.

 

Current Stats, Buffalo offense, #4 in points scored, #2 in yards. Buffalo defense, #2 in points allowed, #9 in yards allowed. Getting healthy finally too. 

 

Let's hope Dorsey is saving something for the playoffs or perhaps for this Miami game.

Would the Bills rather have a 100% Von Miller right now

 

Or

 

Davante Adams with no Kaiir Elam or James Cook? (If you need to throw in Bernard, Shakir, Araiza).

 

 

Going forward I would expect more teams to follow the Dolphins, Eagles and Bengals model. Get the QB, and then do everything you can to get two #1’s. 
 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Straight Hucklebuck

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 12/12/2022 at 10:53 AM, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Singletary is averaging 4.4 ypc. 

 

Cook is averaging 5.1 ypc. 

 

Allen is averaging 6.3 ypc. 

 

Singletary runs for 16-yards and sees 7 carries the rest of the day. 

 

The Bills don't make any effort to stay with a semblance of a run game for all 4-quarters despite being up most of the game. 

Daboll didn’t either. There must be a reason. Bills pass to set up the run because their run blocking is just not that good. Morse is our best lineman by far. 

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

Can't sit mckenzie imo.  He's one of our few red zone weapons whos actually done anything.  

He’s had way too many drops, I doubt he’ll be back next year.

 

Buffalo needs to draft a WR in RD1. Imagine if we find Diggs alter ego.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

8 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

He’s had way too many drops, I doubt he’ll be back next year.

 

Buffalo needs to draft a WR in RD1. Imagine if we find Diggs alter ego.

 

Who cares about next year right now though?  He's been one of the consistent weapons in the red zone this year - therefore i don't bench him. 

[Pete]

Opposing defenses keep two Safeties deep, and spy Josh- that’s been taking away the big plays up top, and stopping some big Josh runs.

dorsey needs to figure how to beat that.  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

On 12/13/2022 at 6:29 PM, Chaos said:

Not really any evidence of that in recent years in terms of wins and losses. Offense wins regular season games. Offense wins Championships. Offense wins Super Bowls.  Thats the rule.  There are a small handful of exceptions in this century to prove the rule. 

Complete teams have been winning the superbowl for years now so I’m not sure what you mean.  Heck the year the chiefs won it they were just outside the top 10 in points against and they couldn’t get it done any other year.  

points against rankings of recent Super Bowl winners:

ravens defense in 2013 - 12th
Seahawks defense 2014 - 1st
pats defense in 2015 - 10th
broncos defense in 2016 - 4th

pats defense in 2017 - 5th

eagles defense in 2018 - 12th

pats defense in 2019 - 8th 

chiefs defense in 2020 - 11th

bucs defense in 2021  - 8th

Rams defense in 2022 - 15th

There hasn’t been a superbowl winner in the bottom half of the league in points against since the New York giants in the 2012/2013 season and even their defense was great in the playoffs. 
 

im not trying to say you need to go all defense lol but you need a good mix of offensive and defensive talent 
 

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Chaos]

10 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Complete teams have been winning the superbowl for years now so I’m not sure what you mean.  Heck the year the chiefs won it they were just outside the top 10 in points against and they couldn’t get it done any other year.  

points against rankings of recent Super Bowl winners:

ravens defense in 2013 - 12th Total fluke, middling defense, and Flacco went nuts, having one of the greatest playoff run either 
Seahawks defense 2014 - 1st (Wilson 7th, 100+)
pats defense in 2015 - 10th 5th QB passer Rating (97.4)
broncos defense in 2016 - 4th QB Passer Rating - rank not measured due to injuries, but Manning was not good during the regular season (exception 2)

pats defense in 2017 - 5th QB passer Rating 3rd (100+)

eagles defense in 2018 - 12th QB passer Rating  7th  (100+) (wentz before injury)

pats defense in 2019 - 8th  Brady (16th 88 Rating) - Exception 1 

chiefs defense in 2020 - 11th QB passer Rating  7th  (100+)

bucs defense in 2021  - 8th  QB passer Rating 8th  (100+)

Rams defense in 2022 - 15th QB QB passer Rating  7th (100+)

There hasn’t been a superbowl winner in the bottom half of the league in net points since the New York giants in the 2012/2013 season and even their defense was great in the playoffs. 
 

im not trying to say you need to go all defense lol but you need a good mix of offensive and defensive talent 
 

 

So really only a couple of years wther the defenses made a significant difference.  Mostly its the QB's and offense. 

[Solomon Grundy]

From what I've been reading, Saffold and Spencer Brown strengths are run blocking. If this is the case, why don't the Bills run the ball more towards their side?