Gabe Davis Ankle ???

[MarlinTheMagician]

Gabe does not seem to be getting us much separation since the ankle injury.  Anybody know anything?  Gabe is a gamer, would not surprise me if it is still not right.  I think he could have a nice stretch run with this mini-bye to get healthy.  We need him to relieve more pressure from Diggs, IMHO.

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

Gabe does not seem to be getting us much separation since the ankle injury.  Anybody know anything?  Gabe is a gamer, would not surprise me if it is still not right.  I think he could have a nice stretch run with this mini-bye to get healthy.  We need him to relieve more pressure from Diggs, IMHO.

 

I dunno...he looked pretty good in the Steeler game.

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I dunno...he looked pretty good in the Steeler game.

He hasn’t looked as good as you had hoped. 

[MarlinTheMagician]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

I dunno...he looked pretty good in the Steeler game.

He sure did, but that was straight line deep stuff if I recall, at least the big play that I remember where he took it away from Minka.  Very different than making sharp cuts and running precise routes to gain separation short and intermediate, which would stress the ankle more.   Say, like Diggs TD route vs. Pats.  Gabe is not a blazer, but usually he gains separation with good route running.  

[billsfan89]

Hopefully a few extra days off on the “mini-bye” helps a lot of these nagging injuries.

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

He sure did, but that was straight line deep stuff if I recall, at least the big play that I remember where he took it away from Minka.  Very different than making sharp cuts and running precise routes to gain separation short and intermediate, which would stress the ankle more.   Say, like Diggs TD route vs. Pats.  Gabe is not a blazer, but usually he gains separation with good route running.  

 

Valid points. I mean Davis is squarely in the 20th-40th range in terms of most WR stats this year and is on pace for 942 yards and 8-9 TDs. Already has a career high in yards. 

 

If there are 32 #1 WRs statistically, #2 WRs would fall between 33-64 logically. He is well within that range. 

 

If people are disappointed in him, it largely is because they had unrealistic expectations to begin with. Only so many balls to go around.

 

Probably Madden related...that game has caused more ridiculous and unrealistic expectations over the last few decades than anything else.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Big Turk

[SCBills]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

Valid points. I mean Davis is squarely in the 20th-40th range in terms of most WR stats this year and is on pace for 942 yards and 8-9 TDs. 

 

If there are 32 #1 WRs statistically, #2 WRs would fall between 33-64 logically. He is well within that range. If peopel are disappointed in him, it largely is because they had unrealistic expectations to begin with.

Or he’s on a pass heavy offense.  
 

This is like hyping the numbers for the RB2 on a team that runs a wishbone offense.  

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Or he’s on a pass heavy offense.  
 

This is like hyping the numbers for the RB2 on a team that runs a wishbone offense.  

 

How many offenses aren't pass heavy these days?

 

The Bills are only 7th in pass attempts per game, let's not act like they are first in the NFL by a wide margin.

 

This doesn't appear to be the case. The difference between the Bills and league average in passing attempts has been a grand total of about 35 up til this point in the season. You really are trying to claim a total of 35 more passes attempted would have this big of an effect?

 

C'mon man...that's silly.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Big Turk

[MarlinTheMagician]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Valid points. I mean Davis is squarely in the 20th-40th range in terms of most WR stats this year and is on pace for 942 yards and 8-9 TDs. 

 

If there are 32 #1 WRs statistically, #2 WRs would fall between 33-64 logically. He is well within that range. If peopel are disappointed in him, it largely is because they had unrealistic expectations to begin with.

Yours are valid too, but I am a Davis believer.  I think if he was in his best form, and Allen was too (no elbow ding), 15-25 type ranking is possible for Gabe, even with Diggs as a clear #1.  Maybe I am too optimistic, but I have felt Gabe has the ability to be a 1 or 1A type, and he has not quite been at that level this year.  Having seen him play at that level a lot raised my suspicion on the ankle ahead of thinking "he is just a 2, but a pretty good two."  I think he has more, not that anyone is asking my opinion.

Edited December 3, 2022 by MarlinTheMagician

[HappyDays]

Davis has never been a separator. He's at his best just running vertically and taking advantage of holes in the defense that come from the attention they pay to the rest of the offense. That was his role here for two years and it worked brilliantly. Ideally he'd be a #3 WR, not a full time #2. They decided to give him his opportunity after his monster game against the Chiefs but unfortunately he hasn't risen to the occasion. That's why OBJ is currently in WNY. Beane recognizes that Davis can't handle the increased role he's been giving.

[SCBills]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

How many offenses aren't pass heavy these days?

Plenty. 
 

Quite a few rely on the run game to set up the pass game and/or protect mediocre QB play. 
 

And then some use it as the primary driver of their offense.. Ravens, Eagles, Browns, 49ers, Titans etc..

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

Yours are valid too, but I am a Davis believer.  I think if he was in his best form, and Allen was too (no elbow ding), 15-25 type ranking is possible for Gabe, even with Diggs as a clear #1.  Maybe I am too optimistic, but I have felt Gabe has the ability to be a 1 or 1A type, and he has not quite been at that level this year.  Having seen him play at that level a lot raised my suspicion on the ankle ahead of thinking "he is just a 2, but a pretty good two."  I think he has more, not that anyone is asking my opinion.

 

I think he does as well. There is something about growing into a role also and having to learn how to adjust as defenses paly you differently also. I think he will be fine and likely take another step forward next year, assuming the Bills resign him.

[MarlinTheMagician]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

Davis has never been a separator. He's at his best just running vertically and taking advantage of holes in the defense that come from the attention they pay to the rest of the offense. That was his role here for two years and it worked brilliantly. Ideally he'd be a #3 WR, not a full time #2. They decided to give him his opportunity after his monster game against the Chiefs but unfortunately he hasn't risen to the occasion. That's why OBJ is currently in WNY. Beane recognizes that Davis can't handle the increased role he's been giving.

Respectfully disagree.  He is very good at gaining separation on out-breaking routes, in-cuts too.  Normally.  I will never forget his sideline grabs vs. Colts in playoffs.

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Plenty. 
 

Quite a few rely on the run game to set up the pass game and/or protect mediocre QB play. 
 

And then some use it as the primary driver of their offense.. Ravens, Eagles, Browns, 49ers, Titans etc..

 

The Jets are ranked 16th in pass attempts per game. League average. Bills are at 37.5, Jets at 34.1. A difference of a total of about 35 more attempts to this point in the season. There is no way Davis is somehow way ahead of most teams WR2 because the Bills have thrown the ball 35 more times than the 16th ranked team.

 

This argument holds no water no matter how much you are convinced it does.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Big Turk

[MarlinTheMagician]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

I think he does as well. There is something about growing into a role also and having to learn how to adjust as defenses paly you differently also. I think he will be fine and likely take another step forward next year, assuming the Bills resign him.

 

Agree.  And I am hoping that just maybe, with 10 days rest, he can give us a little more down the stretch.  Would be big for the offense.

[TheBrownBear]

To be honest, I probably didn't pay too much attention to Gabe's route running his first two years, but watching him this season, it just doesn't look very precise - everything looks very slow and "rounded.". I assumed it was lingering issues with the high ankle sprain, but maybe he's always been this guy?  If that's the case, we definitely need another no. 2 type.

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBear said:

To be honest, I probably didn't pay too much attention to Gabe's route running his first two years, but watching him this season, it just doesn't look very precise - everything looks very slow and "rounded.". I assumed it was lingering issues with the high ankle sprain, but maybe he's always been this guy?  If that's the case, we definitely need another no. 2 type.

 

You could say that about Mike Evans too which I think is a valid Davis comparison, obviously with less overall talent. Similar type WRs.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Big Turk

[HappyDays]

17 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

If people are disappointed in him, it largely is because they had unrealistic expectations to begin with. Only so many balls to go around.

 

People are disappointed in him because of these stats:

 

-52.2 catch % on targets

-10.4 drop %

-85.7 passer rating when targeted

 

Considering the caliber of QB throwing to him there's a point where you have to accept that Davis is responsible for his own struggles.

 

Allen will always make WRs produce above their talent level. Looking at raw production isn't good enough. And keep in mind 26% of his total yards and 33% of his total TDs came in one game. A true #2 WR doesn't have one monster game, a few middling games, and a few disappearing acts; not with a QB at Allen's level and a coverage-stealing #1 WR at Diggs' level.

 

Nothing wrong with Davis' skill set but he is not playing his ideal role right now.

[FireChans]

18 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Valid points. I mean Davis is squarely in the 20th-40th range in terms of most WR stats this year and is on pace for 942 yards and 8-9 TDs. Already has a career high in yards. 

 

If there are 32 #1 WRs statistically, #2 WRs would fall between 33-64 logically. He is well within that range. 

 

If people are disappointed in him, it largely is because they had unrealistic expectations to begin with. Only so many balls to go around.

 

Probably Madden related...that game has caused more ridiculous and unrealistic expectations over the last few decades than anything else.

Gabe’s numbers would look a lot better if he stopped dropping passes that hit him in the hands.

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBear said:

To be honest, I probably didn't pay too much attention to Gabe's route running his first two years, but watching him this season, it just doesn't look very precise - everything looks very slow and "rounded.". I assumed it was lingering issues with the high ankle sprain, but maybe he's always been this guy?  If that's the case, we definitely need another no. 2 type.

He’s always seemed a bit clunky, but he’s also 6-2 and jacked.. Not a ton of WR’s with that build. 

[Process]

21 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Valid points. I mean Davis is squarely in the 20th-40th range in terms of most WR stats this year and is on pace for 942 yards and 8-9 TDs. Already has a career high in yards. 

 

If there are 32 #1 WRs statistically, #2 WRs would fall between 33-64 logically. He is well within that range. 

 

If people are disappointed in him, it largely is because they had unrealistic expectations to begin with. Only so many balls to go around.

 

Probably Madden related...that game has caused more ridiculous and unrealistic expectations over the last few decades than anything else.

You are way off on this one.....the stats are meaningless. He is the #2 WR on a pass heavy offense that basically only uses 3 WRs and has the best QB in the league. He plays like 90% of snaps. Those numbers aren't that impressive.

 

I won't say he has been a disappointment because he's a 4th round pick that showed nothing in prior years to show he can be a reliable number 2. The disappointment is that we didn't address the position last off season. But bottom line is Davis is not that good and we need an upgrade badly next year. 

[TheBrownBear]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

He’s always seemed a bit clunky, but he’s also 6-2 and jacked.. Not a ton of WR’s with that build. 

Clunky is a good way of putting it.  I'm also a bit spoiled by watching Diggs every week 

[SCBills]

Just now, Process said:

You are way off on this one.....the stats are meaningless. He is the #2 WR on a pass heavy offense that basically only uses 3 WRs and has the best QB in the league. He plays like 90% of snaps. Those numbers aren't that impressive.

 

I won't say he has been a disappointment because he's a 4th round pick that showed nothing in prior years to show he can be a reliable number 2. The disappointment is that we didn't address the position last off season. But bottom line is Davis is not that good and we need an upgrade badly next year. 

I think Davis is a monster WR3.  His size and deep threat ability.  Just a beast in that role. 
 

He doesn’t seem to have the reliability/route tree to be a WR2, that I’ve seen.   WR2 needs to be able to move the chains in a variety of ways.  He’s had a few first downs in the past few weeks, but there needs to be a lot more of that for him to claim the role. 

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Valid points. I mean Davis is squarely in the 20th-40th range in terms of most WR stats this year and is on pace for 942 yards and 8-9 TDs. Already has a career high in yards. 

 

If there are 32 #1 WRs statistically, #2 WRs would fall between 33-64 logically. He is well within that range. 

 

If people are disappointed in him, it largely is because they had unrealistic expectations to begin with. Only so many balls to go around.

 

Probably Madden related...that game has caused more ridiculous and unrealistic expectations over the last few decades than anything else.

You’re only looking at stats bro.  It’s the plays that he’s leaving on the field that is the issue

 

He’s currently 190 out of 199 in catch% @ 52%-  not all his fault-  but a lot falls on him

He is tied for the league lead in drops with 6.  He’s tied with Diggs who has over 2x the targets.  
 

He’s a solid WR and I’m glad he’ll be on the team trough his rookie contract but I don’t know if he’ll be worth his next contract.  Especially if someone other than 17 is throwing him the ball.  
 

it’s ok to say that your disappointed with a players performance and still love the player. I love Gabe, but he hasn’t been what I was hoping for this season.  There’s still time to turn that around 

[Coach Tuesday]

His problem is he has ankles for hands 

[Goin Breakdown]

Ok. Just banter. Not a new development and new injury. Scared me for a second. I can't take these injuries anymore. White flag waved. 

[Solomon Grundy]

23 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Davis has never been a separator. He's at his best just running vertically and taking advantage of holes in the defense that come from the attention they pay to the rest of the offense. That was his role here for two years and it worked brilliantly. Ideally he'd be a #3 WR, not a full time #2. They decided to give him his opportunity after his monster game against the Chiefs but unfortunately he hasn't risen to the occasion. That's why OBJ is currently in WNY. Beane recognizes that Davis can't handle the increased role he's been giving.

He was always a decent route runner and separator. I'm sure the ankle is a factor

[The Wiz]

I love how people are looking at Gabe like the Chiefs game wasn't the outlier of his ability to play. 

 

He's come up clutch plenty of times since he has been on the team and now that he has a bigger role in the offense everyone expects him to be as good as Diggs. 

 

He's not going to get there and that was never going to be his trajectory. 

 

I do still wondered if his ankle is bothering him at times since he has had 3 ankle injuries, I believe, in 2 years. 

[Big Turk]

27 minutes ago, Process said:

You are way off on this one.....the stats are meaningless. He is the #2 WR on a pass heavy offense that basically only uses 3 WRs and has the best QB in the league. He plays like 90% of snaps. Those numbers aren't that impressive.

 

I won't say he has been a disappointment because he's a 4th round pick that showed nothing in prior years to show he can be a reliable number 2. The disappointment is that we didn't address the position last off season. But bottom line is Davis is not that good and we need an upgrade badly next year. 

 

People need to stop acting like we are throwing the ball at some historical rate. The league is pass heavy. 35 more attempts in 11 games than the 16th place team does not make you pass heavy.

 

Again...people touting their opinions without looking to see if what they are saying is statisitcslly true. 

 

Hint. Most times it's not.

[ToGoGo]

I think the question here is if his drops (let's be honest, that's why fans are doubting him) the last 4-5 weeks are a sign of who he really is OR if it's temporary issue based on undisclosed injuries/slump + Allen's injury. 

 

I'm in the latter camp. We'll see who the real Gabe is over the next 5 weeks and playoffs. 

[MarlinTheMagician]

35 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

To be honest, I probably didn't pay too much attention to Gabe's route running his first two years, but watching him this season, it just doesn't look very precise - everything looks very slow and "rounded.". I assumed it was lingering issues with the high ankle sprain, but maybe he's always been this guy?  If that's the case, we definitely need another no. 2 type.

 

This.  This is exactly what I am seeing, slow and "rounded."  But that was not at all the case last year.  Gabe takes a lot of pride in his routes, and he works at his craft.  No one is Diggs in route running, but Gabe is normally quite good.  Right now, I am not seeing that - I am seeing slow and rounded.  High ankle?  Did not know it was a "high" ankle sprain.  Usually several weeks - what did Gabe miss, one week? I feel it is very, very likely he is toughing it out, and I hope he gets right for the stretch.  Catch % this year notwithstanding, Gabe has great hands.  When your dinged, it can lead to things like a decreased catch %.  Hoping for more, and I believe Davis can and will offer it if healthy.

Edited December 3, 2022 by MarlinTheMagician

[Process]

5 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

People need to stop acting like we are throwing the ball at some historical rate. The league is pass heavy. 35 more attempts in 11 games than the 16th place team does not make you pass heavy.

 

Again...people touting their opinions without looking to see if what they are saying is statisitcslly true. 

 

Hint. Most times it's not.

Again....a WR2 that plays 90% of snaps in an offense that uses 3 WRs total and barely uses their TE....950 yards should be the floor. 

 

Forget the stats lol....just watch the games

Edited December 3, 2022 by Process

[BananaB]

It’s not his ankle. He’s just ain’t the WR everyone expected him to be after securing the #2 roll. 

[Big Turk]

9 minutes ago, Process said:

Again....a WR2 that plays 90% of snaps in an offense that uses 3 WRs total and barely uses their TE....950 yards should be the floor. 

 

Forget the stats lol....just watch the games

 

This is not the case around the NFL and never has been. Madden is not real life.

 

By your definition only 4 NFL teams had a #2 WR last year then. Chargers, Seahawks, Bengals, and Bucs.

 

That's it. That's the list of teams with a #2 WR with over 950 yards.

 

Acting like this is some regular occurrence is simply nonsense.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Big Turk

[ToGoGo]

5 minutes ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

 

This.  This is exactly what I am seeing, slow and "rounded."  But that was not at all the case last year.  Gabe takes a lot of pride in his routes, and he works at his craft.  No one is Diggs in route running, but Gabe is normally quite good.  Right now, I am not seeing that - I am seeing slow and rounded.  High ankle?  Did not know it was a "high" ankle sprain.  Usually several weeks - what did Gabe miss, one week? I feel it is very, very likely he is toughing it out, and I hope he gets right for the stretch.  Catch % this year notwithstanding, Gabe has great hands.  When your dinged, it can lead to things like a decreased catch %.  Hoping for more, and I believe Davis can and will offer it if healthy.

 

This is what I've been thinking. He hasn't been the same and I think there has been a "void" for a new whipping boy among fans now that Edmunds and Oliver are playing more consistent. 

 

I think fans have been unfortunately a little quick to judge Davis, who has been a shining light 4th round pick for us. 

[QLBillsFan]

1 hour ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

Gabe does not seem to be getting us much separation since the ankle injury.  Anybody know anything?  Gabe is a gamer, would not surprise me if it is still not right.  I think he could have a nice stretch run with this mini-bye to get healthy.  We need him to relieve more pressure from Diggs, IMHO.

If JA throws the 💣 inside shoulder we are talking about what a great game he had. Agree needs better separation at times and has dropped a few. But he’s capable any game of making game changing plays.

[AuntieEm]

3 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

I think the question here is if his drops (let's be honest, that's why fans are doubting him) the last 4-5 weeks are a sign of who he really is OR if it's temporary issue based on undisclosed injuries/slump + Allen's injury. 

 

I'm in the latter camp. We'll see who the real Gabe is over the next 5 weeks and playoffs. 

 

 

  And really if it turns out that Gabe + Allen + playoff game =  stats comparable to the Chiefs game  I'll learn to live with a not really a wr2 but a dang clutch playoff tag team with Diggs and Knox  also making up a clutch scoring quartet in PO's.  If he and Josh manage to set any new SB receiving record I'll just cry silently thinking what could have been if only he was consistent in rrg season over clutch in PO's  because really it's more about the fantasy points he earns for you in the reg season. Everyone knows that.

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

He rolled an ankle in a walkthrough before Week 2.

 

It’s now Week 13.

 

What kind of ankle sprain keeps you out 1-week, but hangs around the next 11 weeks? 

[Bobby Hooks]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

Valid points. I mean Davis is squarely in the 20th-40th range in terms of most WR stats this year and is on pace for 942 yards and 8-9 TDs. Already has a career high in yards. 

 

If there are 32 #1 WRs statistically, #2 WRs would fall between 33-64 logically. He is well within that range. 

 

If people are disappointed in him, it largely is because they had unrealistic expectations to begin with. Only so many balls to go around.

 

Probably Madden related...that game has caused more ridiculous and unrealistic expectations over the last few decades than anything else.

Madden related? Get outta here. 
 

He was primed to take that next step. It hasn’t really worked out that way, but one only has to look at our division rivals the Dolphins to see a realistic comp of what people were expecting. 
 

Everyone was saying the same thing you are about the Bills. Only so many balls to go around, etc. Waddle certainly has the edge on Gabe, but the Bills have Josh. His ridiculous arm, and play extending legs in a pass happy offense should have been more than enough to stay on par with those two. Not unrealistic, imo. 

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Bobby Hooks

[benderbender]

if his ankle is causing his dropsies then yes