NFL Week 10 - Vikings at Bills post game thread

[Ray Stonada]

The BIlls desperately, desperately need more offensive plays that don't involve Allen doing something difficult.

 

It may have been a blessing if Keenum had played this game, forcing Buffalo to run counters, off tackle out of heavy sets, jet sweeps, screens, all the things that teams do to divert pressure from their QBs. Worst that could have happened was a loss, which happened anyway.

 

Under Daboll, we would also run trick plays to score TDs in the red zone. Maybe a little too much, but Daboll at least understood that the downfield passing attack doesn't work as well when compressed near the red zone.

 

Meanwhile, even inside the 5 yd line, Dorsey has the Bills just lining up in the shotgun with three wideouts and asking Allen to solve a tough puzzle, over and over.

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Ray Stonada

[JerseyBills]

3 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said:

That whole series was astonishing.  2nd and 2.   Why they don’t run the ball at least once kills me.   Run it twice.  Keep the clock moving.  Get your field goal at a minimum.   Could have been up 13 with about 8 minutes to play.  Not ideal but would have taken that all day long at the start of the game. 

The run game was very effective in the 1st half and clearly opened up the pass game. 

It's mind boggling how they refuse to keep running.  That is exactly how you play that situation 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Vikings got lucky... Because McD has his head up his ass.

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

I have a theory; what if part of this season's issues with picks is due to Davis being given the WR2 role.

 

Now hear me out; at least 2 or 3 of the recent picks were likely targets for Davis who was no where near the throw. 

 

We all know that Diggs will improvise on the fly and that he and Josh have a similar way of seeing the game thus rarely having issues when Diggs uses a built-in or freelance audible. 

 

Last year Beasley was, for all intensive purposes, the WR2 with all the privileges and freedoms with the job. For instance Beasley commonly would find soft spots in zone coverage that may or may not of been even game planned exactly. After all, no OC can account to any possible permutation of the defense, weather, and acts of random chance.

 

This year Davis has taken the role on and has struggled mightily. Either Davis and Allen don't read the game the same way or Davis is just consistently bad at it. When Davis was hurt, Allen played far more intelligently and spread the ball around. Davis's return has led to Allen using him akin to how he uses Diggs however Diggs is a master of route running and manipulation whereas Davis is not.

 

On the final play, Davis read the defense apparently and ran at an angle deep into the endzone even though both Diggs and another WR/TE was already in that area as well. Allen read the coverage and thought Davis would cross flat along the goal line since the other two already had the deep portion covered which would put him 1v1 at worst hence the bullet-esc throw. Allen trusts, and likely shouldn't to be honest at this point, to be there in the clutch like he was against KC or Indy in the playoffs and, sort of was, getting the tying FG at the end of the 4th Quarter.

 

Allen's throw was not a bad pass that fell short or a pass where a DB jumped the route like the endzone pick earlier in the game where he didn't see; or believe Peterson could get from his spot near the sidelines to in front of Knox. He gunned a ball at a spot specifically which so happened to only have a Viking there with Davis angling deeper.

 

 

As for not taking the checkdown to the RB, he saw a knockout punch to his many time effective TD threat over trusting his RB to make the play. (Granted Allen may still feel uneasy by the earlier "fumble" by Singeltary and his penchant for drops in key moments.) 

I do recall a couple INTs last year where it looked like Davis ran the wrong route. Today the last int I feel Josh thought Davis was gonna flatten out instead of going deeper into endzone. But who knows what Josh is seeing or thinking ATM. 

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

I have a theory; what if part of this season's issues with picks is due to Davis being given the WR2 role.

 

Now hear me out; at least 2 or 3 of the recent picks were likely targets for Davis who was no where near the throw. 

 

We all know that Diggs will improvise on the fly and that he and Josh have a similar way of seeing the game thus rarely having issues when Diggs uses a built-in or freelance audible. 

 

Last year Beasley was, for all intensive purposes, the WR2 with all the privileges and freedoms with the job. For instance Beasley commonly would find soft spots in zone coverage that may or may not of been even game planned exactly. After all, no OC can account to any possible permutation of the defense, weather, and acts of random chance.

 

This year Davis has taken the role on and has struggled mightily. Either Davis and Allen don't read the game the same way or Davis is just consistently bad at it. When Davis was hurt, Allen played far more intelligently and spread the ball around. Davis's return has led to Allen using him akin to how he uses Diggs however Diggs is a master of route running and manipulation whereas Davis is not.

 

On the final play, Davis read the defense apparently and ran at an angle deep into the endzone even though both Diggs and another WR/TE was already in that area as well. Allen read the coverage and thought Davis would cross flat along the goal line since the other two already had the deep portion covered which would put him 1v1 at worst hence the bullet-esc throw. Allen trusts, and likely shouldn't to be honest at this point, to be there in the clutch like he was against KC or Indy in the playoffs and, sort of was, getting the tying FG at the end of the 4th Quarter.

 

Allen's throw was not a bad pass that fell short or a pass where a DB jumped the route like the endzone pick earlier in the game where he didn't see; or believe Peterson could get from his spot near the sidelines to in front of Knox. He gunned a ball at a spot specifically which so happened to only have a Viking there with Davis angling deeper.

 

 

As for not taking the checkdown to the RB, he saw a knockout punch to his many time effective TD threat over trusting his RB to make the play. (Granted Allen may still feel uneasy by the earlier "fumble" by Singeltary and his penchant for drops in key moments.) 

Beasley was a huge L

 

And as I'm writing this at 430 a.m nj 12 news even shows that Jefferson catch smh

 

Diggs had a similar catch that will get overshadowed 

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said:

He forced that pass at the end …

 

I said elsewhere that the pass before the Int to Knox was beautiful… so that could have been the walk off win…

I think he under threw it. Didn't put enough arm in it. 

 

The Knox play should have been PI at very worst.

Just now, JerseyBills said:

Beasley was a huge L

 

And as I'm writing this at 430 a.m nj 12 news even shows that Jefferson catch smh

 

Diggs had a similar catch that will get overshadowed 

Lewis actually gave Jefferson 3 hands! Amazing. Lewis caught that ball for him.

 

Punch it away! 

[ExiledInIllinois]

I don't know what the heck Lewis was thinking. Even he said: "I am not selfish, just have to get better with situations."

 

If Lewis drops his hands, the ball falls. He actually helped Jefferson.  What ***** luck!!! 

[JerseyBills]

6 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

I think he under threw it. Didn't put enough arm in it. 

 

The Knox play should have been PI at very worst.

Lewis actually gave Jefferson 3 hands! Amazing. Lewis caught that ball for him.

 

Punch it away! 

Absolutely.  Diggs was probably overall more impressive 

The issue is why is Lewis going for the pick there in the 1st place in that situation?! 

Coaches should have been in every DBs ear that they knock it away unless you're literally all alone . Man this one is going to F my week up 🤮

 

[Nextmanup]

4 hours ago, Riverboat Ritchie said:

So many errors that it is going to be tough to come up with a nickname for this one.  definitely worse regular season loss of McDermott era

 

1. the snap

2. Jefferson catch

3. elbowgate 

4. The collapse. 

How about "the game of 4 errors" ???

 

 

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said:

He forced that pass at the end …

 

I said elsewhere that the pass before the Int to Knox was beautiful… so that could have been the walk off win…

 

But I can’t make excuses for the game ending pass … you gotta have more patience …live for the next play unless 4th down or the clock had run down 

Would it be a forced pass if Gabe did cut in instead of up? There were two defenders at the first yard marker in front of Singletary, yeah it would of been an easy dish off for sure. You had the safety playing our inside man deeper in the endzone. If Gabe cut across instead of up he had position on Peterson and LBer way too short to make any kind of play on the ball while the safety was too high. Should really of been an easy catch if both were on the same page.  People saying its forced because the route Gabe took put him in tighter coverage. That’s my opinion. Also seems Allen and Gabe are thinking two different things at times. You have bad plays between both getting dissected every week. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by BananaB

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, Utah John said:

Does Jefferson run crazy like that against our first teamers?  White, Hyde, Poyer, and even Elam would all have made a huge difference.

No one knows!  I'm a huge fan of our starting D backfield, but I'm also a huge fan of Jefferson.  He's as good a WR as there is in the league right now.

 

He may WELL have had a big day with our 1s in the game.

 

 

[JerseyBills]

1 minute ago, BananaB said:

Would it be a forced pass if Gabe did cut in instead of up? There were two defenders at the first yard marker in front of Singletary, yeah it would of been an easy dish off for sure. You had the safety playing our inside man deeper in the endzone. If Gabe cut across instead of up he had position on Peterson and LBer way too short to make any kind of play on the ball while the safety was too high. Should really of been an easy catch if both were on the same page.  People saying its forced because the route Gabe took put him in tighter coverage. That’s my opinion. Also seems every Allen and Gabe are thinking two different things at times. 

We'll never know the reason for sure but bottom line , it's inexcusable.  Especially in the RZ

That's 4 RZ ints since the bye 3 weeks ago. 

This has to stop or we won't sniff a SB 

[Nextmanup]

15 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Diggs had a similar catch that will get overshadowed 

You mean that ridiculous one hand stab?  Way up over his head?

 

I think that is his best catch as a Buffalo Bill.  I said as much in the game thread the moment it happened.

 

 

[JerseyBills]

Just now, Nextmanup said:

You mean that ridiculous one hand stab?  Way up over his head?

 

I think that is his best catch as a Buffalo Bill.  I said as much in the game thread the moment it happened.

 

 

Ya. It was an incredible catch. One of the best in the nfl all year

[BananaB]

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

We'll never know the reason for sure but bottom line , it's inexcusable.  Especially in the RZ

That's 4 RZ ints since the bye 3 weeks ago. 

This has to stop or we won't sniff a SB 

I agree. But if this is the case you can’t blame Allen for putting the ball in the right place and Gabe running the wrong route. Like I said, if he cuts in they should be an easy catch, 

[ExiledInIllinois]

6 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Would it be a forced pass if Gabe did cut in instead of up? There were two defenders at the first yard marker in front of Singletary, yeah it would of been an easy dish off for sure. You had the safety playing our inside man deeper in the endzone. If Gabe cut across instead of up he had position on Peterson and LBer way too short to make any kind of play on the ball while the safety was too high. Should really of been an easy catch if both were on the same page.  People saying its forced because the route Gabe took put him in tighter coverage. That’s my opinion. Also seems Allen and Gabe are thinking two different things at times. You have bad plays between both getting dissected every week. 

Yet, they were telepathic wonder twins on that 98 yard bomb against Pitt.

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 hours ago, gomper said:

Funny how they keep losing "The Game of The Year"

Isn't it though?

 

Ridiculous Houston WC game

Hail Murray

KC divisional

This pile of ***** game

 

Different roster and coaches, same old choking poverty franchise 

[ALF]

With key injuries anything can happen,  add to that coaching is suspect.

[Gunsgoodtime]

49 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Ya. It was an incredible catch. One of the best in the nfl all year

If it won't for JJ catch, which was all across media.  The diggs catch was pushed under the rug after that

[JerseyBills]

Allen looked understandably heartbroken in his presser. 

As well as last week vs the Jets but this one, his body language was different. Particularly not looking reporters in their eyes and overall not moving like he usually does in press conferences 

 

Maybe I'm over analyzing here but it's clear he takes these losses hard and I think this one got to him a bit psychologically 

 

Back to back losses with 5 turnovers by him including 2 RZ picks is something we haven't seen since 2019.

 

He's either going to continue this downward spiral or be our upcoming opponents worse nightmare.  I don't see a middle ground with 17 and I love him for that. Next Sunday can't come soon enough but if he continues with the turnovers I'm going to be very concerned. 

 

I think all the hype. The Commercials and national exposure has put too much weight on him and our predictable and rarely used run gm doesn't help. The 1st half we ran effective and Wow, the pass gm opened up. Then , again with a lead, we barely run the ball

 

His inability to check the ball down which is an extension of the run gm is killing this team as well.  He had so many opportunities to hit Motor for positive yards while either getting sacked or incompletion for the 2nd straight game 

 

 

[IndyMark]

29 minutes ago, ALF said:

With key injuries anything can happen,  add to that coaching is suspect.

 

What is seared in my mind from yesterday's game is the commentator Daryl Johnston(?) pointing out how the Vikings CB ---whom is making his NFL debut nonetheless---- provides textbook coverage, with his head turned toward the passer because he was sideways to Dawson in the endzone and breaks up the possible TD.  All the whilst reminding us that our DB's consistently keep the back of their helmet facing QB's, maintaining poor body position, thusly drawing the flags we do.

 

This is coaching 101. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

Allen looked understandably heartbroken in his presser. 

As well as last week vs the Jets but this one, his body language was different. Particularly not looking reporters in their eyes and overall not moving like he usually does in press conferences 

 

Maybe I'm over analyzing here but it's clear he takes these losses hard and I think this one got to him a bit psychologically 

 

Back to back losses with 5 turnovers by him including 2 RZ picks is something we haven't seen since 2019.

 

He's either going to continue this downward spiral or be our upcoming opponents worse nightmare.  I don't see a middle ground with 17 and I love him for that. Next Sunday can't come soon enough but if he continues with the turnovers I'm going to be very concerned. 

 

I think all the hype. The Commercials and national exposure has put too much weight on him and our predictable and rarely used run gm doesn't help. The 1st half we ran effective and Wow, the pass gm opened up. Then , again with a lead, we barely run the ball

 

His inability to check the ball down which is an extension of the run gm is killing this team as well.  He had so many opportunities to hit Motor for positive yards while either getting sacked or incompletion for the 2nd straight game 

 

 

Dont really care about his emotional state. Care that he's playing like garbage 

[Gunsgoodtime]

On the next episode of 1000 ways to lose a football game, the Bills bring out a new way to lose it by fumbling on 1st and 10 from the 1 yard line!  The Bills continue to deliver!

[JerseyBills]

1 minute ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Dont really care about his emotional state. Care that he's playing like garbage 

His mental state can have a direct correlation on his play but I hear ya

2 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

On the next episode of 1000 ways to lose a football game, the Bills bring out a new way to lose it by fumbling on 1st and 10 from the 1 yard line!  The Bills continue to deliver!

I'm telling ya! I was celebrating the W. Went to have a celebratory toke of Mary Jane 

Wasn't even watching when my Cowboy fan brother alerted me. I was speechless 

[Slack_in_MA]

14 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Dont really care about his emotional state. Care that he's playing like garbage 

They aren't mutually exclusive.

[vincec]

4 hours ago, gomper said:

Funny how they keep losing "The Game of The Year"

Yeah. Hilarious.

[Pete]

7 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

How is it that Diggs knew to bat the ball down in the 1st quarter to prevent a deflection pick, but the Bills' DB's don't?

you knock down Hail Mary's at the end of the game to preserve the win. 

You make a play on a ball during a game.

I doubt Steelers pans were piling on MInkah when Gabe made a helluva play.

Cam Lewis, off the practice squad, our 3rd or 4th string S, makes a great play on the ball, Minkah Fitzpatrick like, against one of the best WR in the NFL, almost makes the pick(I thought he did in live time). 

Jeffferson made an amazing catch.  Coverage was great.  And there wasn't even a chance to knock it down. 

 

But go ahead and blame this loss on Cam Lewis

[JerseyBills]

Found this gem on Twitter 

It's a real post from their Twitter account 🤦‍♂️

The 2nd was deleted

 

 

 

[BananaB]

35 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Allen looked understandably heartbroken in his presser. 

As well as last week vs the Jets but this one, his body language was different. Particularly not looking reporters in their eyes and overall not moving like he usually does in press conferences 

 

Maybe I'm over analyzing here but it's clear he takes these losses hard and I think this one got to him a bit psychologically 

 

Back to back losses with 5 turnovers by him including 2 RZ picks is something we haven't seen since 2019.

 

He's either going to continue this downward spiral or be our upcoming opponents worse nightmare.  I don't see a middle ground with 17 and I love him for that. Next Sunday can't come soon enough but if he continues with the turnovers I'm going to be very concerned. 

 

I think all the hype. The Commercials and national exposure has put too much weight on him and our predictable and rarely used run gm doesn't help. The 1st half we ran effective and Wow, the pass gm opened up. Then , again with a lead, we barely run the ball

 

His inability to check the ball down which is an extension of the run gm is killing this team as well.  He had so many opportunities to hit Motor for positive yards while either getting sacked or incompletion for the 2nd straight game 

 

 

He looked pissed and rightfully so. It was nice to see Diggs take the blame for his mistakes during his presser. Allen takes the heat for everything and in this type of game a lot of people put it solely on his shoulders. Mistakes were made all over the field. Coaching especially. Every week I we hear McD say he trusts his guys, he didn’t trust the D to hold a 13 point lead with 10 minute left. Doesn’t trust his RBs to run the ball and picked up PS player for short yardage. Or maybe that was because he didn’t trust McKenzie returning kicks in this weather after what happened last year against the Colts. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

you knock down Hail Mary's at the end of the game to preserve the win. 

You make a play on a ball during a game.

I doubt Steelers pans were piling on MInkah when Gabe made a helluva play.

Cam Lewis, off the practice squad, our 3rd or 4th string S, makes a great play on the ball, Minkah Fitzpatrick like, against one of the best WR in the NFL, almost makes the pick(I thought he did in live time). 

Jeffferson made an amazing catch.  Coverage was great.  And there wasn't even a chance to knock it down. 

 

But go ahead and blame this loss on Cam Lewis

Wasn't Minkah blitzing Josh on that 98 yard play to Davis?

Crappy luck for Lewis.   He gave Jefferson 3 hands. Not Lewis' fault. 

[Pete]

Just now, ExiledInIllinois said:

Wasn't Minkah blitzing Josh on that 98 yard play to Davis?

Its my desktop photo- it was Minkah.  Cam went up and got it though

[SoMAn]

For all the whining, one thing we shouldn’t complain about is officiating. For the most part, the zebras let them play. 
The Bills got away with a lot of holding and they’re lucky the Gabe Davis bobble wasn’t overturned.

 

side note-it’s a shame the Bills didn’t go after Hockenson. I wanted him for the Bills the year he was drafted. Knox is good, but not elite. Hockenson could have done for the Bills what Kelce does for the Chiefs. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

Its my desktop photo- it was Minkah.  Cam went up and got it though

But in end ended up helping Jefferson with 2 more hands. Great play, crappy luck. 

1 minute ago, SoMAn said:

For all the whining, one thing we shouldn’t complain about is officiating. For the most part, the zebras let them play. 
The Bills got away with a lot of holding and they’re lucky the Gabe Davis bobble wasn’t overturned.

 

side note-it’s a shame the Bills didn’t go after Hockenson. I wanted him for the Bills the year he was drafted. Knox is good, but not elite. Hockenson could have done for the Bills what Kelce does for the Chiefs. 

Except... The potential game winner Knox dropped, he was being held, interfered with.

[SoMAn]

5 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

But in end ended up helping Jefferson with 2 more hands. Great play, crappy luck. 

Except... The potential game winner Knox dropped, he was being held, interfered with.

Don’t disagree, but there were a few in which Jefferson’s jersey was being grabbed and there was a fair amount of contact, but the refs let it play out. It went both ways. 
The Bills earned the loss. Jefferson burned our secondary with spectacular catches and the Bills coaching and Allen’s brain farts combined to seal the deal. 

[North Buffalo]

Josh needs to lay off the energy drinks and get back to putting touch on the ball... also someone on the sidelines preferably with a degree in psychology needs to be on him about where his head at... sugar high josh makes too many mistakes.

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

It's far enough along in his career to see that sugar high Allen is who he is at times. He's never going to be MVP because of that, and SB champ, not sure, we'll see. You can win the SB by just getting hot in the playoffs, for MVP, need to be great for a vast majority of the season.

I got $100 that says he’ll win one.  Whatcha say mean gene?  Finally put your money where your mouth is?  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just called Howard and Jeremy.

 

Why bother?

 

They talk about how McKenzie is wide open in the flat. 
 

Say what I’m saying isn’t true.

 

Freeze frame it guys, McKenzie is completely covered. He had 0 separation. 
 

The only other option Josh had was he would have had to wait until the last second to lob to Singletary because chips and releases extremely late.

[NewEra]

Just now, Gene1973 said:

Well I don't gamble (except stock market). But it can be a forum bet of somekind I suppose.

 

It could take 10 years or more to know the outcome...

 

So you do gamble.  
 

Ok, loser leaves the board.  I think it’ll take 2-3 years, but never is a bet too hard to pass up.  

[RunTheBall]

Dorsey is the problem.

 

Everyone says “Ohhh he’s a psycho he’s so competitive blah blah” well that’s the issue.

 

When you combine his aggressiveness with Josh’s, you get bad football. Dabol was a moderating force to Josh’s internal competitiveness.

 

Dorsey has been absolutely destroyed in the second half of the last 3 games. Flat out coached easily. He has no ability to adjust to what his early season offense was.

 

Zero running game, zero intermediate game, horrible red zone play calling (how many times are we 1st and goal from the 5ish and throw the ball every down??)

 

No, he doesn’t throw the pics Josh has been killing us with. BUT, he can call plays where the reads are short to deep instead of deep to short when Josh his Sugar High Josh. The job of the OC is to recognize how his QB is playing and reign him in when needed. 

 

Dorsey is failing. There is no need to worry about him getting poached as a HC. And THANK GOD the MVP talk is over. Who give a sht the goal is the Super Bowl not Allen’s accolades.

 

[HopelessNJBuffaloFan]

A quick couple of things.....

 

Being a hopeless fan I have went through some absolute crappy seasons with this team. Losing the 4 straight during the non internet era (Yes children there was a time where we could not pull any information right there and then!) was a blessing as being in the navy I was not local in the Buffalo area, so I did not get to see many games but the playoffs. Now being able to watch, I only did so casually during the drought. I am a diehard hockey fan, but not a diehard football fan. I love the Bills, but do not love football. I can take it or leave it. I am always brought back to the never ending train wreck that seem to be the Bills. Even after last week, i found out that we were on TV in NJ and there i was in my Allen jersey watching another Bills disaster. (This time i did not destroy my new cell phone!) Some thoughts on this team:

 

- Our defense front 4 has not dominated in over a month. In fact they have been pushed around like they are not on the field. If they played a bit better then out depleted secondary would not look so bad. If i was given as much time the opposing QBs got i could make a completion.

 

- Poor play calling and or coaching decisions and or poor Allen decisions, or all 3. Since we will never know unless we are in the game just take your pick. 

 

- Allen needs a sport psychologist. Something is in his head as he sometimes looks like an awesome QB, now sometimes he looks like a rookie. These last 2 losses he is partly to blame either way.

 

- Secondary. You cannot really blame them. Most of them are not even supposed to be on the field. They are doing their best and are making rookie mistakes because they are not supposed to be on the field, not to mention all together are the same time!

 

And lastly, I can watch the Sabres lose day after day as I love Hockey. I enjoy wearing one of my 20 + Sabres jerseys and win or lose enjoy the game. The Bills, not so much. Hoping this train wreck is not on national tv much more so i can skip this disappointment of a team and can just add this year of despair to the many others we (i know i am not the only one) have endured.