All-22 Grades for Bills/Dolphins (The Athletic)

[UKBillFan]

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

It is sad that some of these are not giving credit for the Miami defense for playing lights out.  They dominated that it did not matter whether our OL played well or not.  

 

The Bills are not a bad team..they had a bad day at the office...and in spite of that they were a play away from winning the game.   It happened last year and it will happen this year.  It is the NFL

I don’t think they did play lights out though. If it wasn’t for our own mistakes we would have had at least an additional 13 points (Josh bounce throw, Davis drop, Bass FG miss - this assuming Bass missed the extra points and deducting the safety as that wouldn’t have happened without the Davis drop IIRC). That would have taken us up to 30 excluding the Milano dropped pick six against their offense.

 

Also, I’ve heard some people say the Dolphins were great because they kept our offense on the field, dinking and dunking, and let them burn out. I don’t buy that for a moment - why be happy with keeping our strongest part of the team on the field for the longest amount of time? Surely you’d want quick turnovers and three & outs in order to face our depleted defense as much as possible?

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, gobills404 said:

In the full clip it looks more like Dawkins just got smoked

 

 

There was clearly confusion as to what the protection scheme was. That is where Mitch Morse really is missed, but yea Dion got beat. 

 

In terms of Devin that whole series was strange two runs with Moss leaving your best runner on the sideline then a pass from your own 14 and you take out Moss who is your best pass protecting back. Very odd. 

 

7 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

I'll never understand the Saffold signing. Some fans thought this was a great move because of his name but there's a reason why the Titans were quick to dump him and that's because he's about done in this league.

 

Almost wondering if not letting Bates go to the Vikings was a mistake too.

 

Granted it's early, but aside from Dawkins and Morse there are still way too many question marks right now and even Spencer Brown looks to be headed down that dreaded Bills sophmore slump.

 

You can argue we've faced 3 great defensive lines so far to start the year but you still need to perform and time is going to run out soon if this oline can't get it together.

 

It was the Bears not the Vikings. But I don't disagree otherwise. 

 

I criticised the Saffold signing from the off and while I understood bringing Bates back it was a lot of money basically gambling that the 6 decent games we saw at the end of last season from an until that point career backup was the sign of a breakout. 

[GunnerBill]

Three minor quibbles from me on Joe this week.

 

1. Elam was one of our best 5 players without a single shadow of a doubt to me. It may be one of those circumstances that he wasn't targeted much and so Joe doesn't give as much credit (a problem PFF's grades often have with corners guys don't throw at) but there was a reason Tua only targeted Elam twice. He had good coverage almost all day despite often drawing Hill as a responsibility. 

 

2. How can Josh Allen not be in our top 5 grades? Okay bad miss at the end to McKenzie game on the line and a mistake with the center at the end of the first half but he was literally freelancing on about 75% of our offensive snaps because the protection in front of him was so horrific. The number of plays where Josh could drop back, get through his progressions and fire was countable on your two hands. To produce as much offense as we did given that and no run game was a remarkable effort on his part. Even if we struggled in the redzone. 

 

3. D- is still too generous for Saffold. What comes after E? Give him that.

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Bates and Saffold have been terrible so far. Brown had a decent week 1 but has struggled since.

 

Right now the OL is a problem. 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Buffalo_Stampede]

9 hours ago, gobills404 said:

In the full clip it looks more like Dawkins just got smoked

 

It’s just a great designed blitz. Also It’s on Josh Allen. Dolphins send 8, Bills only have 7 blockers. Allen is responsible to get the ball out and not do what happened.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

Dawkins and Singletary both did horrible on this play. Forgive Dawkins sometimes cam be bad but usly does more good.

It was 8 pass rushers vs 7 blockers. You can’t blame the blockers when the outside pressure gets the sack. It’s 100% on the QB to recognize what’s happening and get the ball out.

 

The Dolphins timed the blitz perfectly. The DL head up on Dawkins slow plays it to give Holland that extra step needed.

 

I’m not sure Allen expected an all out blitz. They had 3 WRs in routes but everything was beyond the 1st down. Nothing quick. It’s almost like Miami knew the play and they’d be safe. Because you have Diggs, Crowder, and Davis all in 1v1. A completion and missed tackle is a TD.

 

Holland got there quick, no time for Allen to make a play after his drop. He got fooled pre snap. I guarantee Allen would take responsibility for that sack.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[nosejob]

11 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Time to spend high picks on the oline. 

I think that's the plan with the need to stagger contracts. I think if Morse can't go at any time in the future, Bates is the best fit for center and I think they elevate Alec Anderson to play RG. I think he will be a good guard. I was hoping they'd stay at 25 this past draft and take Zion Johnson. I wonder how he's doing.

[finn]

11 hours ago, H2o said:

The bottom 5 are all OL. Shocking.

I wonder if it was a mistake to cut Ford. Anyone hear how he's doing in Arizona? That would be rich, the Bills struggling at guard after cutting two good guards in Wyatt and Ford. (Although I noticed I had a hard time writing the word "good" so soon after typing Ford's name.)

 

If Saffold continues his poor play, the Bills might consider putting Bates back at his more natural left guard position and put...uh... someone at right guard. 

[H2o]

8 minutes ago, finn said:

I wonder if it was a mistake to cut Ford. Anyone hear how he's doing in Arizona? That would be rich, the Bills struggling at guard after cutting two good guards in Wyatt and Ford. (Although I noticed I had a hard time writing the word "good" so soon after typing Ford's name.)

 

If Saffold continues his poor play, the Bills might consider putting Bates back at his more natural left guard position and put...uh... someone at right guard. 

Ford is on IR. The reason he was traded is because he wasn't that good and his athletic profile did not fit what we were trying to do on offense. 

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Holland got there quick, no time for Allen to make a play after his drop. He got fooled pre snap. I guarantee Allen would take responsibility for that sack.

 

Allen was half a second away from a big completion down field. He just needed Dawkins or Singletary to not whiff on their block. It's possible to beat an all out blitz without throwing a short hot route, if it wasn't then every team would always call an all out blitz on 3rd and long.

[Doc]

Not surprised the OL graded so poorly. Van Rotten was tipping off the defense.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Allen was half a second away from a big completion down field. He just needed Dawkins or Singletary to not whiff on their block. It's possible to beat an all out blitz without throwing a short hot route, if it wasn't then every team would always call an all out blitz on 3rd and long.

Allen drifts over towards Holland in his drop because he thought the pressure was coming front side, which it was as well. It was everywhere. He drops right into Holland. A straight drop and he releases the ball.
 

You’re correct if they get a piece of Holland it’s a big play but it’s nearly impossible when it’s 8v7. They have to protect inside 1st. 

 

It is possible Allen thought it would be blocked up backside based on the OL sliding left and Allen also drifting left in his drop. He obviously thought the pressure would be in his face. 

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

You’re correct if they get a piece of Holland it’s a big play but it’s nearly impossible when it’s 8v7. They have to protect inside 1st. 

 

It wasn't impossible... Dawkins is right there. Singletary also had a chance of getting a piece of him. They had all the blocking assignments ready to give Allen the 2.5 seconds he needed to load up and fire down field to an open receiver with no one in front of him. Allen recognized the all out blitz and the single coverage and had the right read. The IOL blocked their guys long enough despite not having the numbers. Spencer Brown got his guy. Dawson Knox executed his block perfectly. But Dawkins whiffed so the play was killed.

[Ralonzo]

12 hours ago, uninja said:

Big O was saying though that the center was totally tipping the snap count. DL was teeing off. They knew it was a pass play and literally timed the jump. Dawkins and Singletary got smoked, because their assignments were in the backfield before the ball even made it into Allen’s hands. 

 

I was thinking during the game that I can't remember a worse center performance than what Van Roten was pulling off, and questioning why is Bates not in at center and literally anybody else at guard, even Van Rotten where at least he isn't mishandling the ball every other snap.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

15 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

It wasn't impossible... Dawkins is right there. Singletary also had a chance of getting a piece of him. They had all the blocking assignments ready to give Allen the 2.5 seconds he needed to load up and fire down field to an open receiver with no one in front of him. Allen recognized the all out blitz and the single coverage and had the right read. The IOL blocked their guys long enough despite not having the numbers. Spencer Brown got his guy. Dawson Knox executed his block perfectly. But Dawkins whiffed so the play was killed.

Allen drops into Holland for whatever reason. Watch his feet. Takes the ball on the hash and ends up way left at the end of his drop. Allen’s drop alone gives him less time.

 

It’s a tough block for Dawkins and Singletary due to the numbers. 8v7, they have to peak inside 1st. As I said Allen doesn’t help them either dropping directly into Holland’s rush.

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Utah John]

The inability to evaluate and draft/hire O linemen has been a consistent problem for Beane since he got here.  It's weird because he's so good at everything else.  Maybe he needs someone on his staff to handle this area.  Or maybe he HAS someone on the staff for this area, and that person can't get it right.

 

Brown was AWFUL from the get-go on Sunday.  He was exposed over and over, and when Quessenberry replaced him I figured it was for poor play and not heat problems.  I think the Bills figure he's immense and so will make a good road-grader for the run game, and maybe that will work out, but what the Bills need is a really good pass-protect O line.  

[Royale with Cheese]

Maybe Poyer isn't re-signed and we put that money towards the OL next year.  

 

But, hopefully they get it together like that the end of last year.

[uninja]

17 minutes ago, Utah John said:

The inability to evaluate and draft/hire O linemen has been a consistent problem for Beane since he got here.  It's weird because he's so good at everything else.  Maybe he needs someone on his staff to handle this area.  Or maybe he HAS someone on the staff for this area, and that person can't get it right.

 

Brown was AWFUL from the get-go on Sunday.  He was exposed over and over, and when Quessenberry replaced him I figured it was for poor play and not heat problems.  I think the Bills figure he's immense and so will make a good road-grader for the run game, and maybe that will work out, but what the Bills need is a really good pass-protect O line.  

I think Brown’s back is still messed up. He was messing with it during the Titans game and Quessenberry replaced him during that game as well at some point. 
 

He might be on a pitch count still and/or working his way back. His pass pro is still definitely undeveloped and needs work. Having Bates next to him (who also has pass pro issues) instead of an established vet like Willliams is probably also causing issues and breakdowns in communication. 

So much of OL is about working as a unit and weak links in the line make the entire line look bad. I think that Bates’s shortcomings last year were hidden because Morse and Dawkins are good, and made sure that Bates was doing the right thing. That may be impacted now that Bates is in a different spot and next to a pretty green right tackle who doesn’t see the rush as well.  

[Billzgobowlin]

15 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Christ, the entire oline as bottom tier 😳 

Time to flip flop Saffold and Bates

Got to believe not having Morse in there screwed the whole line up.  Wish we had a better backup option.  I kind of believe Bates should have been moved in to Center.  We know he can snap the ball at least

1 hour ago, Doc said:

Not surprised the OL graded so poorly. Van Rotten was tipping off the defense.  

Can you explain what you mean?

[Simon Says]

Is it just me or do handoffs look slow and clumsy? Sometimes the RB is on top of Josh, and practically stopped, before getting the ball . At times it looks like the ball is handed off too high. RBs almost coming to a stop, losing momentum. Is there an alignment issue or timing problem?

[78thealltimegreat]

15 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

 

 

 

Top 5 grades:

1) DaQuan Jones (A-)

2) Matt Milano (B+)

3) Von Miller (B+)

4) Greg Rousseau (B+)

5) Taron Johnson (B+)

 

Bottom 5 grades:

1) Rodger Saffold (D-)

2) Greg Van Roten (D+)

3) David Quessenberry (D+)

4) Spencer Brown (D+)

5) Ryan Bates (D+)

With those grades for the online going to start nicknaming them the Blutarskys 

[Einstein]

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Singletary is a very very good pass blocker.

 

Not that he's perfect. He might have made a mistake there. Or not. You can't tell because whoever made that clip totally edited out the early part of the play where Singletary was making the decision. Based on that clip, no way to know whether he was to blame for that.

 

Could've been. Just that there simply isn't enough evidence there in that clip to even begin to tell on that play.

 

 

 

 

Ah, you can see it all on this clip. Thanks, GoBills404, for posting one that actually tells the story.

 

Yeah, that was a nice deceptive formation for Miami. They lined up all on the line and the LG and LT were facing a 4-on-2. As it's snapped, one of the defenders slips around the center to attack the other side of the line, leaving a 3-on-2. There's a guy coming unblocked between Dawkins and Saffold who Singletary has to account for and that guy comes forward two or three steps and pulls up. The instant he does that, Motor switches to trying to block the guy who has totally beaten Dawkins, but he's too late.

 

That one's on Dawkins, but when they rush so many guys, you have to get it out quick. Allen could have stepped up one step and avoided that guy. It's not like he'd have escaped everything if he'd done so, but he'd have gained just enough time to bring that arm forward.

 

Almost, but not quite.

 

It was absolutely on both Dawkins and Singletary both.

 

The excuse that Singletary got confused is not a good one.

[RoyBatty is alive]

15 hours ago, gobills404 said:

In the full clip it looks more like Dawkins just got smoked

 

There is so much wrong with this play, i assume they spend a long time going over this.  Bills looked totally out of rhythm and overwhelmed. 

 

!) How much was due to no Morse?  Anyone know his status?

 

2)  Expect more and more blitzes till we can handle them better.

Edited September 29, 2022 by RoyBatty is alive

[78thealltimegreat]

6 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s just a great designed blitz. Also It’s on Josh Allen. Dolphins send 8, Bills only have 7 blockers. Allen is responsible to get the ball out and not do what happened.

This isn’t Allens fault at all. Allen takes 3 steps and goes to throw the ball. He had no idea the LT literally let the DE blow by him and hit Josh’s arm as he’s throwing it. That play is entirely Dawkins fault. If you can’t give your qb time to throw on a 3 step drop you probably belong in the cfl. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

This isn’t Allens fault at all. Allen takes 3 steps and goes to throw the ball. He had no idea the LT literally let the DE blow by him and hit Josh’s arm as he’s throwing it. That play is entirely Dawkins fault. If you can’t give your qb time to throw on a 3 step drop you probably belong in the cfl. 

99% Allen 1 % blocking. Watch his feet. 8v7.  Inside out. It’s football 101.

 

Look at where he starts his drop vs where he finished his drop.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[RoyBatty is alive]

37 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Got to believe not having Morse in there screwed the whole line up.  Wish we had a better backup option.  I kind of believe Bates should have been moved in to Center.  We know he can snap the ball at least

Can you explain what you mean?

VanRoten at center lifts his head up to take a peak just before he puts his head down to snap the ball between his legs...a comically easy tell for the D.  Jerry Ostroski pointed it out.

Edited September 29, 2022 by RoyBatty is alive

[RoyBatty is alive]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

99% Allen 1 % blocking. Watch his feet. 8v7.  Inside out. It’s football 101.

 

Look at where he starts his drop vs where he finished his drop.

 

 

99% on Allen?  Even if he was back to where he was at the snap he would have gotten nailed, look at your picture 2, both Dawkins and Singletary badly badly beaten.  Maybe it buys him a millisecond if he is back may have been able to throw it away and then he is going to get whacked.

[nosejob]

1 hour ago, Ralonzo said:

 

I was thinking during the game that I can't remember a worse center performance than what Van Roten was pulling off, and questioning why is Bates not in at center and literally anybody else at guard, even Van Rotten where at least he isn't mishandling the ball every other snap.

They showed a close up of VanRoten's face when he came in and he looked petrified....at least that was my first impression.

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

99% on Allen?  Even if he was back to where he was at the snap he would have gotten nailed, look at your picture 2, both Dawkins and Singletary badly badly beaten.  Maybe it buys him a millisecond if he is back may have been able to throw it away and then he is going to get whacked.

Allen doesn’t take a hit, he gets the ball knocked out. If he’s 2 yards right Holland might get washed right by him. 
 

We’ll never know. What I do know is you can’t blame blocking when the blockers are outnumbered and the outside rush makes the play.

[RoyBatty is alive]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Allen doesn’t take a hit, he gets the ball knocked out. If he’s 2 yards right Holland might get washed right by him. 
 

We’ll never know. What I do know is you can’t blame blocking when the blockers are outnumbered and the outside rush makes the play.

Correct we will never know but to say it is 99% on Allen to me is absurd unless he should or could have audibled out of it. 

 

The entire play is totally out of sync beginning with the snap.

 

And it doesn't matter if the blockers were outnumbered,  when you have 2 blockers going for the same man and are clearly beaten it is on those two guys.

[GustheDog33]

What does Joe know about football?  Being a reporter looking at scheme is very different than understanding the game.  I am asking because I don't know his background.  If he is just a guy who is a reporter than I am wary of any of these All-22 reviews from him or others in the same vein.

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Allen doesn’t take a hit, he gets the ball knocked out. If he’s 2 yards right Holland might get washed right by him. 
 

We’ll never know. What I do know is you can’t blame blocking when the blockers are outnumbered and the outside rush makes the play.

They're not really out numbered though. To me that looks like it's designed to look like an overload but with a spy so they're actually blocking 7 on 7. Allen drifts because Knox was a little late coming over in motion to pick up the DB. If Dawkins and Singletary don't whiff he's going to hit Davis on the post for 30 yards.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

They're not really out numbered though. To me that looks like it's designed to look like an overload but with a spy so they're actually blocking 7 on 7. Allen drifts because Knox was a little late coming over in motion to pick up the DB. If Dawkins and Singletary don't whiff he's going to hit Davis on the post for 30 yards.

It’s very well designed and executed. A couple dolphins definitely slow play it but it’s all that’s needed to get Holland free. 
 

The end zone view might give people a better view. I don’t think Holland touches him if he drops straight back.

 

 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s very well designed and executed. A couple dolphins definitely slow play it but it’s all that’s needed to get Holland free. 
 

The end zone view might give people a better view. I don’t think Holland touches him if he drops straight back.

 

 

Look at each offensive lineman's first step. Allen shifted coverage toward that side seeing the overload front. It's not unusual that he would drift left to gain an extra bit of time to get the throw off.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Look at each offensive lineman's first step. Allen shifted coverage toward that side seeing the overload front. It's not unusual that he would drift left to gain an extra bit of time to get the throw off.

I mentioned that earlier. The OL blocks left. A few Dolphins slow play it to cause slight confusion of who’s really coming. The pressure was from both front and back. He likely takes a hit if he drops straight back. 
 

Dawkins had zero shot to block a speedy DB with that angle to the QB. Singletary was the only hope there and he’s a little late looking inside 1st. RBs are taught to always block inside out.

 

We don’t know the design. We don’t know if Allen drifted left out of design.  But from my viewpoint Allen got fooled.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[RoyBatty is alive]

22 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s very well designed and executed. A couple dolphins definitely slow play it but it’s all that’s needed to get Holland free. 
 

The end zone view might give people a better view. I don’t think Holland touches him if he drops straight back.

 

 

Interesting, he does go hard to the left and the o line i think was shifted to the left.  Note  there are two edge blockers #29 and #8 so i would understand that move to the left.  Of all the mistakes on this play major kudos to Knox for taking care of #29.  

Edited September 29, 2022 by RoyBatty is alive

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Interesting, he does go hard to the left and the o line i think was shifted to the left.  Not there are two edge blockers #29 and #8 so i would understand that move to the left.  Of all the mistakes on this play major kudos to Knox for taking care of #29.  

They were literally a split second from making this game 14-0. OL definitely is sliding left. Probably why Allen felt comfortable sliding left.

 

Cover 0 blitz. I wish they ran a different play vs it. Did they not think they’d see cover 0 there? I would love to ask Josh Allen that question. But on to Baltimore.

 

 

[Scott7975]

20 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s very well designed and executed. A couple dolphins definitely slow play it but it’s all that’s needed to get Holland free. 
 

The end zone view might give people a better view. I don’t think Holland touches him if he drops straight back.

 

 

 

He drifts left because 29 was bull rushing him free and Knox wont necessarily get there.  Thats why he drifted.  This play is on the center for snapping before the line was ready and secondly for Dawkins and Motor both wiffing the block.  Keep blaming Allen if you want but you are wrong.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, Scott7975 said:

 

He drifts left because 29 was bull rushing him free and Knox wont necessarily get there.  Thats why he drifted.  This play is on the center for snapping before the line was ready and secondly for Dawkins and Motor both wiffing the block.  Keep blaming Allen if you want but you are wrong.

Lol 😂. 

[Ralonzo]

44 minutes ago, nosejob said:

They showed a close up of VanRoten's face when he came in and he looked petrified....at least that was my first impression.

 

 

I just don't know why they Bills accumulate all these OL with "position flexibility" and then don't want to move them around to "maintain continuity" even when one of them is literally murdering your chances of winning by playing the position he's at.