Breece Hall Please!!

[JaCrispy]

Serious question- I like Hall, but if he is so good, why do some not even have him as the #1 RB? And why a mid 2nd round pick? Just a little confusing...

[TheBeaneBandit]

Just now, JaCrispy said:

Serious question- I like Hall, but if he is so good, why do some not even have him as the #1 RB? And why a mid 2nd round pick? Just a little confusing...

I think cause the league has evolved a bit from the 80s and 90s. But imo a great RB is still very nice to have.

[wppete]

12 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Serious question- I like Hall, but if he is so good, why do some not even have him as the #1 RB? And why a mid 2nd round pick? Just a little confusing...

I also think it’s about $$$. A lot of money to commit to a RB and a rookie unproven. Position value. A 1st round rookie RB would be one of the highest paid RBs in the league so he has to be a sure sot plug-in. Also do we want to commit that amount of $$$ to the RB position if we are a throwing offense? 
 

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by wppete

[Brandon]

13 minutes ago, wppete said:

I also think it’s about $$$. A lot of money to commit to a RB and a rookie unproven. Position value. A 1st round rookie RB would be one of the highest paid RBs in the league so he has to be a sure sot plug-in. Also do we want to commit that amount of $$$ to the RB position if we are a throwing offense? 
 

 

 

Just based off the attempted McKissic signing,  I would expect the Bills to place a high value on receiving skills from any RB they draft.  Thurman Thomas was mentioned above and I think that's exactly what they'd like to find...a guy who can be a matchup nightmare because he can split out wide and run the entire route tree at a high level in addition to elite rushing skills.  That being said,  I don't think Breece Hall is that guy and given that,  I'm leaning toward the idea that the second group of guys like James Cook or Rachaad White are better values for this team.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Brandon

[Logic]

The question that I have -- and I don't know the answer, I'm just asking -- is: 

Is Breece Hall as good as, say, Jonathan Taylor? Because if he is, in my opinion, the whole "1st round RB is a bad value" argument goes out the window. To me, there's no denying that adding a Jonathan Taylor level running back talent to this offense would be the single best/fastest way to upgrade it, more so than adding a WR3/WR4.

When opposing teams start going two-high all day long against the Bills next year, a dynamic running back will help a lot more than a slot receiver. 

We can all argue until we're blue in the face about analytics, contracts, and draft value, but if the question "what helps the Bills offense the most?" is asked, then "running back" might be a more realistic answer than WR3/WR4.

And for what it's worth, Brandon Beane has plainly stated that he doesn't subscribe to the idea of "never take a running back in the 1st round", and that if the Bills ever view a running back as the BPA in round one, they won't hesitate to draft him. I'm just pointing this out because so many in the draft community are anti 1st round RB, but our GM doesn't seem to be one of these people. That's notable. 

Oh, and one more thing: Breece Hall is just 20 years old. Brandon Beane loves drafting young players with his 1sts. 
 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Logic

[whorlnut]

29 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Serious question- I like Hall, but if he is so good, why do some not even have him as the #1 RB? And why a mid 2nd round pick? Just a little confusing...

Why do some have Andrew Booth slipping out of the first round when so many on here want to trade up a little to make sure we get him?  Different analysts have different rankings…

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, Brandon said:

 

Just based off the attempted McKissic signing,  I would expect the Bills to place a high value on receiving skills from any RB they draft.  Thurman Thomas was mentioned above and I think that's exactly what they'd like to find...a guy who can be a matchup nightmare because he can split out wide and run the entire route tree at a high level in addition to elite rushing skills.  That being said,  I don't think Breece Hall is that guy and given that,  I'm leaning toward the idea that the second group of guys like James Cook or Rachaad White are better values for this team.

According to whom?  
 

prior to last season, his receiving ability was highly questioned.  He showed that he was an accomplished pass catcher in 2021…..but can we please not make things up.   What makes you say he can run an “entire route tree”?  I’m not saying that he can’t…..but he most certainly hasn’t proven this.  It’s an extremely far fetched exaggeration based on the fact that he caught a bunch of swing passes and check downs.  

[Brandon]

Just now, Logic said:

We can all argue until we're blue in the face about analytics, contracts, and draft value, but if the question "what helps the Bills offense the most?" is asked, then "running back" might be a more realistic answer than WR3/WR4

 

 

I don't really know if Hall is on the same level as a prospect or not,  but I agree completely with the statement above.  Draft value and all this stuff is important,  but ultimately,  it's a question of which pick makes the most positive impact toward winning games.  That's why I would never rule out a RB late in R1,  even if I'm not sure I'd actually do it this year (and probably wouldnt). 

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

According to whom?  
 

prior to last season, his receiving ability was highly questioned.  He showed that he was an accomplished pass catcher in 2021…..but can we please not make things up.   What makes you say he can run an “entire route tree”?  I’m not saying that he can’t…..but he most certainly hasn’t proven this.  It’s an extremely far fetched exaggeration based on the fact that he caught a bunch of swing passes and check downs.  

 

I don't and said as much.  I don't think Breece Hall is that kind of guy. 

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, Brandon said:

 

I don't really know if Hall is on the same level as a prospect or not,  but I agree completely with the statement above.  Draft value and all this stuff is important,  but ultimately,  it's a question of which pick makes the most positive impact toward winning games.  That's why I would never rule out a RB late in R1,  even if I'm not sure I'd actually do it this year (and probably wouldnt). 

 

I don't and said as much.  I don't think Breece Hall is that kind of guy. 

 
❤️ Apologies good sir.  

[Milanos Milano]

45 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Serious question- I like Hall, but if he is so good, why do some not even have him as the #1 RB? And why a mid 2nd round pick? Just a little confusing...

See Jonathan Taylor. Why did Taylor go in the 2nd. Sometimes elite talent goes undervalued. Hall and Taylor are very similar RBs. 

[GolfandBills]

2 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

See Jonathan Taylor. Why did Taylor go in the 2nd. Sometimes elite talent goes undervalued. Hall and Taylor are very similar RBs. 

Taylor was and is a much much better runner between the tackles with his vision and contact balance.  The knock on Hall is he lacks those qualities.  

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, GolfandBills said:

Taylor was and is a much much better runner between the tackles with his vision and contact balance.  The knock on Hall is he lacks those qualities.  

You’re talking to someone who compares Hall to Marshawn Lynch….he think Hall has great contact balance and tackle breaking ability.  
 

no offense iron….but you see him differently than many other do

[Milanos Milano]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You’re talking to someone who compares Hall to Marshawn Lynch….he think Hall has great contact balance and tackle breaking ability.  
 

no offense iron….but you see him differently than many other do

Lol Hall had over 20 consecutive games with a TD and many many goal line rushes. He has plenty of power and contact balance. Not sure what to tell you guys. 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Lol Hall had over 20 consecutive games with a TD and many many goal line rushes. He has plenty of power and contact balance. Not sure what to tell you guys. 

20 consecutive games with a TD and many goal line rushes proves that he has great contact balance and power?  Oh man…. 
 

 

[Milanos Milano]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

20 consecutive games with a TD and many goal line rushes proves that he has great contact balance and power?  Oh man…. 
 

 

It doesn’t prove it, but from the games I’ve seen him in, he displays plenty of contact balance and power. It was actually 24 consecutive games with a TD. 

[Pete]

2 hours ago, deanjf said:

Brian Robinson Jr. in the third - the anti-Singletary back - very physical

Motor was super physical the last 8 games.  Motor runs hard!

[Yantha]

I'll just put this here:  https://www.nfl.com/news/peter-schrager-2022-nfl-mock-draft-2-0-bills-add-offense-chiefs-double-down-on-d

[BillsFanSD]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

Motor was super physical the last 8 games.  Motor runs hard!

Yeah, but we're probably not going to make re-signing Motor a very high priority after this season.  He's fine, but I'd rather just draft a RB occasionally and ride them for a few seasons on their rookie contracts before letting them walk in FA.  Rinse and repeat.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, BillsFanSD said:

Yeah, but we're probably not going to make re-signing Motor a very high priority after this season.  He's fine, but I'd rather just draft a RB occasionally and ride them for a few seasons on their rookie contracts before letting them walk in FA.  Rinse and repeat.

Im hoping we somehow get Breece or Walker, and pair them with Singletary.  And just smash teams with our running game.  An unstoppable running game makes Josh and our offense that much scarier.  And it probably would add years to Josh's career, and more Bills superbowl rings

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

It doesn’t prove it, but from the games I’ve seen him in, he displays plenty of contact balance and power. It was actually 24 consecutive games with a TD. 

Scoring TDs doesn’t equate to having good power and contact balance.  He’s a great fit in a zone scheme and a very poor fit in power scheme 
 

 

[Milanos Milano]

Guess who Breece Hall beat for the NCAA longest game streak for consecutive TDs? Buffalo Bills very own Bobby Burnetts brother.  Would love to see greatness continue here. 

[Rochesterfan]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

Im hoping we somehow get Breece or Walker, and pair them with Singletary.  And just smash teams with our running game.  An unstoppable running game makes Josh and our offense that much scarier.  And it probably would add years to Josh's career, and more Bills superbowl rings

 

Much like teams playing the Chiefs - if I am playing the Bills and they are running the ball even 40% of the time - I consider it a win because the running game doesn’t really scare me much at all - even from the best teams in the league.

 

Breece Hall or Walker bring nothing that frightens me as a DC and running them takes the ball out of the best players hands.  If I am playing them - give me that all day.  
 

We will see where it goes, but similar to the way many of the top rushing teams ( only 1 of the top 4 and 5 of the top 10) made the playoffs - rushing offense is vastly overrated by some.

 

Compare that to 8 of the top 10 passing offenses making the playoffs including the Super Bowl champs.  In addition 2 of the top rushing teams - were also in the top passing teams (Buffalo and Dallas) and both are more known for passing.

[BrainwashedBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Much like teams playing the Chiefs - if I am playing the Bills and they are running the ball even 40% of the time - I consider it a win because the running game doesn’t really scare me much at all - even from the best teams in the league.

 

Breece Hall or Walker bring nothing that frightens me as a DC and running them takes the ball out of the best players hands.  If I am playing them - give me that all day.  
 

We will see where it goes, but similar to the way many of the top rushing teams ( only 1 of the top 4 and 5 of the top 10) made the playoffs - rushing offense is vastly overrated by some.

 

Compare that to 8 of the top 10 passing offenses making the playoffs including the Super Bowl champs.  In addition 2 of the top rushing teams - were also in the top passing teams (Buffalo and Dallas) and both are more known for passing.

In my opinion It’s all about controlling the clock when the Bills have the lead and need to burn time off the clock by running the ball. We do not do that currently with our personnel. Adding a Breece or walker gives us a better shot at accomplishing that 

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, BrainwashedBillsFan said:

In my opinion It’s all about controlling the clock when the Bills have the lead and need to burn time off the clock by running the ball. We do not do that currently with our personnel. Adding a Breece or walker gives us a better shot at accomplishing that 

Are we going to be running a power scheme or a zone scheme?  It’s a HUGE factor one must consider when drafting Breece Hall.  I would assume that if we drafted Hall, we’d be running a zone scheme…..because he’s a terrible fit in a power scheme imo.  

[Yantha]

NewEra.....  You get a little bogged down with schemes....  I think we can all agree that we already have a great passing game but could benefit from an improved running game.

 

Simple

 

As

 

That

[Rochesterfan]

7 minutes ago, BrainwashedBillsFan said:

In my opinion It’s all about controlling the clock when the Bills have the lead and need to burn time off the clock by running the ball. We do not do that currently with our personnel. Adding a Breece or walker gives us a better shot at accomplishing that 

 

Nope - that is about o-line.  Singletary currently averages just short 4.8 YPC for his career.  Other recent 1st round picks like Najee Harris and CEH are both well below that average. 
 

Nothing that I have seen from Walker or Hall suggests they will be better.  Jonathan Taylor and Derrick Henry are excellent, but both benefit from superior run blocking o-lines - as shown when Henry missed time and the running game handled by low level back-ups was just as good.

 

You want to control the clock and burn time - then you want o-line in the first not RB.  That helps you more on many levels in my opinion.

 

 

[Yantha]

2 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Nope - that is about o-line.  Singletary currently averages just short 4.8 YPC for his career.  Other recent 1st round picks like Najee Harris and CEH are both well below that average. 
 

Nothing that I have seen from Walker or Hall suggests they will be better.  Jonathan Taylor and Derrick Henry are excellent, but both benefit from superior run blocking o-lines - as shown when Henry missed time and the running game handled by low level back-ups was just as good.

 

You want to control the clock and burn time - then you want o-line in the first not RB.  That helps you more on many levels in my opinion.

 

 

Totally agree with you here RochesterFan.  

 

Hoping that we can improve the OL, snag a CB one way or another AND land Breece Hall or KWIII.  

 

Too much to ask for though....  unless we get a miracle in the Free Agency or via TRADE.

 

Beane is one smart GM though and there has to be a way.

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, Yantha said:

NewEra.....  You get a little bogged down with schemes....  I think we can all agree that we already have a great passing game but could benefit from an improved running game.

 

Simple

 

As

 

That

 

Obviously every team benefits from improved running game and Bills did last 5 games of season into playoffs. Do you not think Bills improved at that point in season when they finally got the best personnel for OL figured out? Also that was the start of the RB's getting more opportunities.

 

I think the running game should pick up from where it left off at end of season. 

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, Yantha said:

NewEra.....  You get a little bogged down with schemes....  I think we can all agree that we already have a great passing game but could benefit from an improved running game.

 

Simple

 

As

 

That

You can have whichever opinion you like.  
 

it’s my opinion that schemes matter for RBs…..especially a RB that you’re talking about being 25 overall   
 

do you.  I’ll do me. 

11 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Nope - that is about o-line.  Singletary currently averages just short 4.8 YPC for his career.  Other recent 1st round picks like Najee Harris and CEH are both well below that average. 
 

Nothing that I have seen from Walker or Hall suggests they will be better.  Jonathan Taylor and Derrick Henry are excellent, but both benefit from superior run blocking o-lines - as shown when Henry missed time and the running game handled by low level back-ups was just as good.

 

You want to control the clock and burn time - then you want o-line in the first not RB.  That helps you more on many levels in my opinion.

 

 

This.  👍🏻 

[Patrick Duffy]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You can have whichever opinion you like.  
 

it’s my opinion that schemes matter for RBs…..especially a RB that you’re talking about being 25 overall   
 

do you.  I’ll do me. 

I'd say it's more of a fact than an opinion that it matters for RB's. Maybe some more than others, but absolutely it goes without saying the best fit for any RB gets the best production that RB can provide.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Sheneneh Jenkins

[newcam2012]

19 minutes ago, Yantha said:

NewEra.....  You get a little bogged down with schemes....  I think we can all agree that we already have a great passing game but could benefit from an improved running game.

 

Simple

 

As

 

That

Agree but it's still a hard no for Hall or any running back at pick 25. Beane knows this and I'd be shocked if he was the pick. 

17 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Nope - that is about o-line.  Singletary currently averages just short 4.8 YPC for his career.  Other recent 1st round picks like Najee Harris and CEH are both well below that average. 
 

Nothing that I have seen from Walker or Hall suggests they will be better.  Jonathan Taylor and Derrick Henry are excellent, but both benefit from superior run blocking o-lines - as shown when Henry missed time and the running game handled by low level back-ups was just as good.

 

You want to control the clock and burn time - then you want o-line in the first not RB.  That helps you more on many levels in my opinion.

 

 

Bingo!

Edited April 19, 2022 by newcam2012

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

you and soloman were to disappear, so would the thread

[Patrick Duffy]

Just now, NewEra said:

Fixed. We went from more of a zone scheme to more of a power scheme at the end of the year.  One player (Bates) made a difference….but the scheme and the RBs ability to run behind that scheme was also key in the improvement 

You're absolutely right. I didn't mention scheme since the post I quoted seemed to be aimed more towards the OL in general. But for sure that certainly plays a factor

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

  What makes you say he can run an “entire route tree”?  I’m not saying that he can’t…..but he most certainly hasn’t proven this.  It’s an extremely far fetched exaggeration based on the fact that he caught a bunch of swing passes and check downs.  

Iowa State lined him out wide too. The TD catch against Baylor is one example in particular 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I don’t think the Bills ever have to worry about “burning clock” with Josh Allen as their QB…. Too many fans thinking circa mid 2000 Bills…. They need a more efficient running game, but they should be looking to score on every possession, not “burn clock”…. And the best way to do that is putting the ball in Allen’s hands more so than not… Dynamic WR over Breece Hall and it’s not even close… wouldn’t be surprised if McD wants to run the ball more though next season.

Every poast comes full circle by the end

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

I don’t trust McDermott to have a 1st round running back. I think the passing offense we saw in 2020 was Daboll’s doing and McDermott would love nothing more than to be perfectly balanced. 
 

Hopefully we add a fast complimentary running back like Pierre strong in the 4th or later. 

[Solomon Grundy]

42 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

running them takes the ball out of the best players hands

Ummm…Kansas City and Mahomes 

[newcam2012]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

I don’t think the Bills ever have to worry about “burning clock” with Josh Allen as their QB…. Too many fans thinking circa mid 2000 Bills…. They need a more efficient running game, but they should be looking to score on every possession, not “burn clock”…. And the best way to do that is putting the ball in Allen’s hands more so than not… Dynamic WR over Breece Hall and it’s not even close… wouldn’t be surprised if McD wants to run the ball more though next season.

Agree WR over RB. To me, it's not even close. 

 

In addition, I believe Singletary showed he is more than serviceable with a decent Oline. He was really good the latter part of last year. Moss could always improve to be a serviceable back up. I'm all for picking up another RB for competition. It would be a drafting blunder to take Hall at 25. The position or the player doesn't warrant such a decision. 

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Iowa State lined him out wide too. The TD catch against Baylor is one example in particular 

One play is an example of him running a full route tree?  Link to the route?

[Albany,n.y.]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

……if a player like Kijana Carter, Curtis Enis, Blair Thomas, Tommy Vardell, Rashan salaam, Sammie smith, Terry Miller, Dj Dozier, Lawrence Phillips has a 5th year option, every team would hesitate to pick it up or sign them long term.  
 

two sides to every coin. 
 

 

Beane wouldn't be drafting a RB hoping he's the next Terry Miller. I can cite busts at any position if I want to say no 1st rounder is ever worth the risk.  For years there were advocates of never drafting a 1st round QB making similar comments to your post.  Thankfully Beane didn't agree with them.