*[EDIT]* Multiple reports Browns actively shopping Mayfield pg. 29/30 - Ravens / Browns in QB contract pickle

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think Burrow might even go top 3 but I won't quibble with those 4 in some order. That is pretty much a lock. 

Yeah, I agree, he certainly would be taken in top 3 by some GM’s.  I just think right now there are more GMs that would take Allen and Hebert top 3 than Burrow.  I think if you watch tape on all 3, the other two just make more throws and plays that few can make and both are more of a running threat.  Burrow is closing the gap for sure, and big post season would further close that gap. 
 

But I think it’s pretty clear, these four of this next generations Brady, Manning, Brees, and Rodgers right now.  They will be tough to knock from the top 4 assuming they all continue their current trajectories.  

[MJS]

53 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Sorry been tied up with some things so I could respond sooner.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and again I'm not disputing Allen being in the upper 3rd of NFL QB's from a statistical standpoint.  He is and only a fool would tell you otherwise.

 

The crux of my argument is that you have to look at the accolades that matter (at least in terms of the 'experts') and prior to 2021 Allen had one good season on film which many felt (and still feel) was fluky because of the covid year circumstances. So if we are debating the fact that his extension was given on potential that's another thing, but in terms of being a proven commodity Allen really isn't yet unless he can elevate this team to another level in the playoffs and at minimum make another AFCCG appearance.

 

But going back to my personal feelings, I'm still taking the guys I mentioned over Allen today because I'm not a biased fan and have seen more pure raw talent to believe they are going to be all time great HOF types that win multiple championships and/or elevate their teams. Allen could be too but still think the odds are against that if anything because of how inconsistent he still is 4 years into his career.

Oh my goodness. Allen's statistics speak for themselves. He has historically great statistics for the first 4 years of a QB's career.

 

This take is just laughable and wrong on so many levels. You really are blind to the reality.

 

What experts are saying anything besides the fact that Allen is an elite QB?

30 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

The bottom line is if you are going to pay a guy $250M dollars you better be damn sure he's an elite top 3 QB in this league and wins multiple SB's in the near term or it's makes zero sense to do that. The more logical thing is to aware someone after they have risen to the top like Mahomes.

 

Mahomes was a league MVP in year two (essentially his rookie season since he only played the season finale his first year), won a SB in year 3 and made it to another in year four. I believe his deal came after year 3 which is fine.

 

Experts in this league (not fans like us) felt Allen wasn't even the top 3 QB in his own conference this year, so again what does this say? But can you really argue with them after he craps all over himself in a game against a terrible Falcons team after having such a great performance the prior week? Also what accolades does he have other than one AFCCG appearance in that you can argue wasn't really on his shoulders (at least not the Ravens game).

 

Again, this goes back to the point that Allen's contract was probably premature. But if he goes on to win a SB this year then case closed regardless of his stats and horrendous outings he had during the regular season.

What experts? Tell me. Give me examples.

[Seventeen]

If all 50 MVP voters looked at solely who was the MVP for their own team, Josh would win hands down given the Bills struggle with the OL and running game.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Yeah, I agree, he certainly would be taken in top 3 by some GM’s.  I just think right now there are more GMs that would take Allen and Hebert top 3 than Burrow.  I think if you watch tape on all 3, the other two just make more throws and plays that few can make and both are more of a running threat.  Burrow is closing the gap for sure, and big post season would further close that gap. 
 

But I think it’s pretty clear, these four of this next generations Brady, Manning, Brees, and Rodgers right now.  They will be tough to knock from the top 4 assuming they all continue their current trajectories.  

 

I agree Allen and Herbert make more wow throws but I think Burrow is the purest pocket QB of the 4 of them. His movement inside the pocket at times is Brady-esque! There are definitely GMs who still favour that kind of guy. Ironically it is the pure pocket guy who has already had the ACL injury. 

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

Top six if a team wants to do a Bucs and go on for short term glory as Brady and Rodgers would get chosen early if so. 

Fair point, however I have a counter point simply because this convo is fun haha.  
 

I would think if a team is starting from scratch and making their first roster addition in the first 4 picks, it’s pretty hard to take someone like Rodgers and almost impossible to take Brady over those young studs given you have no idea yet what the rest of your roster is going to look like to know if you can go all in on a SB push over those first couple seasons.  
 

So I don’t think Brady even goes in the early rounds given he has maybe one season in him left, and their signs this second half of the season that he might finally hit the cliff this next year.  Rodgers has likely another 2-3 elite play left in him you can probably bank on.  So he would be a guy that would still go round 1, but I doubt he would go before those 4 who can potentially set your team up with an elite QB for the next decade.  

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Yikes Bucky 😂

 

If Philly can get a conditional 1st (now definitely a 1st) and a 3rd round pick for Carson Wentz who was signed for 4 more years at over $80 million, the Browns can get more than peanuts & popcorn for Mayfield.  They also won't be returning Alice Cooper's boots if they get delivered to FirstEnergy Stadium by mistake.  

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree Allen and Herbert make more wow throws but I think Burrow is the purest pocket QB of the 4 of them. His movement inside the pocket at times is Brady-esque! There are definitely GMs who still favour that kind of guy. Ironically it is the pure pocket guy who has already had the ACL injury. 

Yeah agree with that.  In this make believe scenario too, Burrow has the rookie contract still for 2 more years which if we are being truly true to the factors of this scenario would give him an added value over Allen.  
 

My only small knock on Burrow is his tendency to throw prayer balls, and he throws a lot of them.  When Chase makes the plays, their offense explodes, when they aren’t completed, the offense struggles.  While he’s quite impressive still, I think for me I want to see more great throws versus great plays his receivers make on toss up balls.  
 

But that is nit picking, he’s still very impressive and clearly IMHO ahead of guys like Murray and Lamar in the young QB conversations and not far behind Allen and Hebert.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

If all 50 MVP voters looked at solely who was the MVP for their own team, Josh would win hands down given the Bills struggle with the OL and running game.

I would probably go with Aaron Rodgers. His OL has been banged up all year.

[AlfaBill]

54 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Wait a minute…

 

Josh Allen needs to elevate his team to another level and at a minimum take them to another AFCCG in order to prove himself. 
 

Meanwhile Justin Herbert has never won his division, Joe Burrow just did for the first time and neither have a playoff game under their belt yet. How in God’s name are they more of a proven quantity than him? Burrow (.462) and Herbert (.484) are both sub .500 in their first two seasons. Josh was winning games at a .555 clip his first two years. 

Inconsistent 4 years into his career? The man has statistically been a top 3 QB the past two seasons and has progressed year to year. His numbers are down SLIGHTLY from last year, but nothing that’s overwhelmingly concerning considering he’s still 80% of a top 3 scoring offense in football. His “inconsistency” today is extremely different than his inconsistency as a rookie. Don’t try and lump the two in together, it’s disingenuous. His down games today still result in multi-score wins and his best games have him shredding the NFL’s top defenses.

 

Do you ever read back through what you’ve said and realize nothing adds up? 

This beast guy is a very good troll. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

35 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Saints and Baker Mayfield make a lot of sense.

🤔 Not after he ran from the cops!  He's going to Hell! 😉

 

[JGMcD2]

38 minutes ago, teef said:

your comment was that if the bills waited until this year to sign allen, it would have been for less base on his production in 2021.  there's nothing true about that, it's a complete wrong statement no matter how you spin it.  that being said, i love your posting.  

This is what @FilthyBeastis failing to grasp as well. He’s yet to prove we could’ve somehow gotten Josh at a discount compared to his current contract.
 

Contracts aren’t awarded in the NFL based on who is truly the top player at the position and then a sliding scale from there, the time that guys come due to be signed are all different. It’s based on the current market. This off-season the two highest paid QBs in terms of AAV we’re Mahomes and Dak. 
 

Josh has significantly outperformed Dak Prescott the last two years. The logical option would’ve been to pay him more than Dak and less than Mahomes in terms of AAV… which is what we did.
 

He’s done nothing this year to change that… if anything his performance has confirmed that was the right decision. 
 

[Malazan]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

And so it begins...

 

So Baker literally is saying, "STOP PUTTING THE BALL IN MY HANDS! ARE YOU CRAZY? HAVE YOU SEEN ME PLAY?!"

[FireChans]

14 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Coleridge Bernard Stroud IV. He throws the most catchable ball. Melts into thee hand. 149 miles south down 71…. Wyd brownies 

Another OSU QB. This one is different from Fields/Haskins/Barrett/Jones, we swear.

[Seventeen]

43 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Saints and Baker Mayfield make a lot of sense.

 

I like this idea - maybe Payton can turn Baker into Brees.

 

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Another OSU QB. This one is different from Fields/Haskins/Barrett/Jones, we swear.

 

As long as he's different than Art Schlichter, he'll be OK. 

Edited January 6, 2022 by Roy Hobbs

[UKBillFan]

15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Fair point, however I have a counter point simply because this convo is fun haha.  
 

I would think if a team is starting from scratch and making their first roster addition in the first 4 picks, it’s pretty hard to take someone like Rodgers and almost impossible to take Brady over those young studs given you have no idea yet what the rest of your roster is going to look like to know if you can go all in on a SB push over those first couple seasons.  
 

So I don’t think Brady even goes in the early rounds given he has maybe one season in him left, and their signs this second half of the season that he might finally hit the cliff this next year.  Rodgers has likely another 2-3 elite play left in him you can probably bank on.  So he would be a guy that would still go round 1, but I doubt he would go before those 4 who can potentially set your team up with an elite QB for the next decade.  

That’s a fair point; if the next draft pick would be 33 then you’re gambling each time on who would go - would all of the first choice QBs go first, leaving the first WR/RB/OL/TE/DL etc. as pick 33? Or would teams look to lack up their QB? It’d be fascinating to see if some ways how it would all play out. But Brady and Rodgers would be something of a gamble in those circumstances; especially the former, as the Bucs had to pay a princely sum to set up the offense for him to succeed.

 

As an aside, and it is churlish to say this, I wonder how much of Burrow’s success this season is down to Chase? He had a QBR of 89.4 last season; this season it’s jumped to 108.3. Just as an aside, Josh’s has gone down from 104.9 to 92.8 and he’s only 15th in the rankings. I will quickly say I know QBR is not the be all and end all.

[chongli]

59 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

Experts in this league (not fans like us)

 

Wait...what?

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, UKBillFan said:

That’s a fair point; if the next draft pick would be 33 then you’re gambling each time on who would go - would all of the first choice QBs go first, leaving the first WR/RB/OL/TE/DL etc. as pick 33? Or would teams look to lack up their QB? It’d be fascinating to see if some ways how it would all play out. But Brady and Rodgers would be something of a gamble in those circumstances; especially the former, as the Bucs had to pay a princely sum to set up the offense for him to succeed.

 

As an aside, and it is churlish to say this, I wonder how much of Burrow’s success this season is down to Chase? He had a QBR of 89.4 last season; this season it’s jumped to 108.3. Just as an aside, Josh’s has gone down from 104.9 to 92.8 and he’s only 15th in the rankings. I will quickly say I know QBR is not the be all and end all.

Actually, I agree with you on that as that’s my one criticism of Burrow this season.  I have watched a lot of Bengals this year as I had Chase on a couple fantasy teams and have 3 TVs In my living room to watch football haha.  
 

He throws a lot of prayer balls where Chase has made a lot of insane plays.  Reminds me of Culpepper to Moss days in some cases.  I am definitely not comparing him to Culpepper, I certainly think Burrows future is a lot brighter and he is better than what Culpepper was.  
 

But that’s why for me I think Burrow falls outside those other 3 guys currently because he makes less wow throws and has more wow plays by his receivers.  
 

But it’s a small criticism, he obviously has had a big breakout season and has still been overall impressive.  
 

I agree with @GunnerBillthat he is more of that classic pocket passer compared to the more overall athletic 3 in Mahomes, Allen, and Herbert who have an extra layer of danger to the defense because they can make plays with their legs too…and Allen obviously being the one who can be considered an elite runner to go with the arm talent.

[jlgarsh]

16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Interesting.  It also took Brees what, 4 years in Sandy Eggo and Phillip Rivers being drafted, to start looking like he could play QB at a high level.  After which he had a career-threatening shoulder injury and signed with New Orleans, the rest being history

Brees had a good 2nd year didn't he? Slumped 3rd year, went ights out when Rivers drafted. Then SD let him go after the shoulder injury. Wild

[May Day 10]

if its true, the gall on Mayfield is outrageous.  

[GunnerBill]

38 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Yeah agree with that.  In this make believe scenario too, Burrow has the rookie contract still for 2 more years which if we are being truly true to the factors of this scenario would give him an added value over Allen.  
 

My only small knock on Burrow is his tendency to throw prayer balls, and he throws a lot of them.  When Chase makes the plays, their offense explodes, when they aren’t completed, the offense struggles.  While he’s quite impressive still, I think for me I want to see more great throws versus great plays his receivers make on toss up balls.  
 

But that is nit picking, he’s still very impressive and clearly IMHO ahead of guys like Murray and Lamar in the young QB conversations and not far behind Allen and Hebert.  

 

He definitely has two outstanding young receivers. I think Tee Higgins is a #1 and Chase clearly is a #1. He has two more years at least throwing to that pair. I have to say I have a knock on Herbert's fundamentals. I think his gets loose with his release and his footwork too often for my tastes. I'd go Mahomes #1, Allen #2, Burrow #3.