Solomon Grundy Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 10 hours ago, ßookie_tech said: Is Bruce the GOAT or Reggie? I think people give Reggie the nod because of his signature “hump move”. Bruce was a force to be reckoned with. Bruce destroyed all of the great tackles during his tenure. I’m with team Bruuuuce 7 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said: Bruce is the GOAT, he was a better man on the field, and a better man off the field, than Reggie White Reggie was a deacon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said: Reggie was a deacon And a homophobic racist. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted November 20, 2021 Author Share Posted November 20, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said: And a homophobic racist. But, but, he was a Deacon.... If Reggie was still alive who would you rather invite over to meet your family? Who would you rather go to the bar and have a beer with? Depending on your values maybe that's a different answer, but I think Bruce is a real guy and when he had any problems he has been real about what they're. He seems like a genuinely solid person. Reggie did the lords work which gave him a lot of curbside appeal but he probably had a few skeletons packed in with that squeaky clean image. I value authentic people the most and I think Bruce was more authentic. Edited November 20, 2021 by KzooMike 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, KzooMike said: Reggie did the lords work which gave him a lot of curbside appeal but he probably had a few skeletons packed in with that squeaky clean image. No skeletons involved. He gave a prepared speech to the Wisconsin Legislature that left no doubt that he was a homophobic racist. When asked about it afterward, he refused to apologize and doubled down in a Barbara Walters interview. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cDAVIS Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 This will be one of the hardest records in all of sports to break. What he did was truly remarkable. Even with an extra game or 2 I honestly don't see it. However, the player that does break it will likely go down as the best defender of all time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMAKCruiser Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 I think his sacks record and Rice's receiving yards record will never be beaten. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 1 hour ago, KzooMike said: As far as double teams, it would be nearly impossible to have the protection in a 3-4 you get in a 4-3 regardless of how your DC schemes. The alignment in a 3-4 just doesn't allow a DE to stay protected. For some perspective on this within the top 10 career sack leaders, none are 3-4 DE's besides Bruce. 6 More DE's in the top 10, all 6 are 4-3 DE's. 3-4 DE's being known as legends are so rare, it's almost like Buffalo put Bruce in the position they did because they knew how rare he was and it would always occupy two blockers and even still he would beat it. Nobody like Bruce exists as far as production in a 3-4 role. This is a really strong argument. Bruce was, indeed, a rare talent. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 58 minutes ago, SMAKCruiser said: I think his sacks record and Rice's receiving yards record will never be beaten. A couple years ago my son was trying to convince me that Julio Jones would break Jerry Rice's record. I said "no way." That's looking even more correct now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMAKCruiser Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 44 minutes ago, Doc said: A couple years ago my son was trying to convince me that Julio Jones would break Jerry Rice's record. I said "no way." That's looking even more correct now. He's 32 and needs about 10,000 more yards... I don't see that happening 😊. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Probably not, especially with sacks harder to come by these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessAccepted Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 it'll be beat. It's more of a passing league so more opportunities for sacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 12 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Records are made to be broken ... But no 200 sacks 56 game hit streak 2857 points Some records will stand the test of time ... Truly remarkable lines You wanna know another record that won’t be broken? Johnny Vandermeer about 100 years ago threw 2 consecutive no hitters. No one will ever throw 3. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said: it'll be beat. It's more of a passing league so more opportunities for sacks. No way. With someone needing 20 seasons averaging 10 sacks a season, 15 averaging 13+ or 13 averaging 15+, nobody’s doing it. And I can’t even see anyone playing more than 13 seasons these days. Edited November 20, 2021 by Doc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 13 hours ago, ßookie_tech said: Is Bruce the GOAT or Reggie? Reggie. Love Bruce, however, and you can make a case he is the greatest Buffalo Bill (at any position) of all time. Only guy who can really dispute that is OJ. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeLLy1278 Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 5 hours ago, TAinLA said: OJ Simpson - 2000 yds. rushing in 14 games. That may be the most incredible accomplishment in football. Top five RB of all time. I got The Juice, Jim, Barry, Eric and Walter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Reggie White would have smashed it if he played the same amount of games. I bet it’s beat one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted November 20, 2021 Author Share Posted November 20, 2021 1 minute ago, KeLLy1278 said: That may be the most incredible accomplishment in football. Top five RB of all time. I got The Juice, Jim, Barry, Eric and Walter. What's funny is arguably the next closest thing to to the 2,000 in 14 games is Browns 1,863, with a 6.4 AVG. OJ was worse at 6.0 AVG in his 2000 yard year. In sum, If Jim Brown got the carries he would have had a better year, but it's similar to the White/Smith debate. Bruce got it partly because he played longer. In evaluating GOAT shouldn't that play a role? Just as it plays a role to get that high in fewer games? One requires more top end production and one requires more endurance, consistency and ability to avoid injury. Both are different but equally important traits. As poster said, this like picking your favorite guitarist. I would never say either was better, just different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, KeLLy1278 said: That may be the most incredible accomplishment in football. Top five RB of all time. I got The Juice, Jim, Barry, Eric and Walter. Barry Sanders rushed for 2,000 yards in 14 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted November 20, 2021 Author Share Posted November 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Jay_Fixit said: Barry Sanders rushed for 2,000 yards in 14 games. Maybe at Oklahoma State Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: Barry Sanders rushed for 2,000 yards in 14 games. 1 minute ago, KzooMike said: Maybe at Oklahoma State Yeah, not in the NFL he didn't. OJ still has the record for most yards/game in a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimebillsfan Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 15 hours ago, KzooMike said: Sometimes you don't know how rare something is before some time elapses. With the additional game, it's only a matter of time before nearly every record based on a total falls. One record that I think is different is the 200 sacks in a career by Bruce. After Reggie, the next closest player to Bruce is 40 sacks behind or the equivalent of 3 exceptional seasons. Consider the only active NFL player who is even a threat is Aaron Donald at 7 1/2 seasons and 30 years old. For him to eclipse Bruce, he would essentially have to duplicate his success for the same amount of time he has been in the league until he is 38 years old. Maybe in 4-5 years we can discuss if TJ Watt is a threat or not. That's what makes this record so ridiculous. You could average 10 sacks a year for 10 years and still only be half way. It's a record of consistency, stamina, and talent and even with the additional game I think it stands as long as any of them. Don't forget that Reggie White had 198 career sacks. If two can put up those numbers, then I believe it will be broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeLLy1278 Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 31 minutes ago, KzooMike said: What's funny is arguably the next closest thing to to the 2,000 in 14 games is Browns 1,863, with a 6.4 AVG. OJ was worse at 6.0 AVG in his 2000 yard year. In sum, If Jim Brown got the carries he would have had a better year, but it's similar to the White/Smith debate. Bruce got it partly because he played longer. In evaluating GOAT shouldn't that play a role? Just as it plays a role to get that high in fewer games? One requires more top end production and one requires more endurance, consistency and ability to avoid injury. Both are different but equally important traits. As poster said, this like picking your favorite guitarist. I would never say either was better, just different. Yep. Agree on all counts. Juice did have a better career yards per reception avg than Jim though. 10.6 to 9.5. Over a yard is impressive. In his 9 years as a Bill his avg per reception was 11. Avg yards per carry is 5.2 to 4.7 in favor of Brown. But as you said, it’s splitting hairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebert19 Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 No. 11 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said: Don't forget that Reggie White had 198 career sacks. If two can put up those numbers, then I believe it will be broken. Different styles of O now. Quick timing based vs QB holding the ball much longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma Pecoraro Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 (edited) Unlike White, in his prime Bruce had mostly mediocre linemates - Washington, Hansen, and a past prime Smerlas for a time excepted. Edited November 20, 2021 by Momma Pecoraro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted November 20, 2021 Author Share Posted November 20, 2021 (edited) I'm posting a couple links to sites that focus on notable 3-4 DE's and 4-3 DE's in NFL history. It's slightly outdated, but does as good job as far showing the difference in production from 3-4 DE's vs 4-3 DE's. The last link is All Time Sack leaders comprised of 3-4 OLB's and 4-3 DE's. You see a rare DT exception as well and then Bruce, who might as well be on an island as far as this list is concerned with 3-4 DE's. I think Buffalo took probably the best defensive player in NFL history and put him into a scheme that helped decent LB's and a a poor secondary. Who knows, the entire defense was likely built around Bruce being able to subtract two players every down. I will not disrespect what Reggie did and say he was worse, but I can't do it to Bruce either. 3-4 Best DE's https://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-top-3-4-defensive-ends-in-nfl.html 4-3 Best DE's https://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-top-4-3-ends-in-nfl-history.html Career Sacks Leaders http://www.espn.com/nfl/history/leaders/_/stat/sacks Edited November 20, 2021 by KzooMike 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimebillsfan Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 10 hours ago, Hebert19 said: No. Different styles of O now. Quick timing based vs QB holding the ball much longer. It will be difficult, but the record can be broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 On 11/19/2021 at 11:48 PM, ßookie_tech said: Is Bruce the GOAT or Reggie? Bruce played most of his career as a 3-4 end The 4-3 guys should have it a bit easier. Bruce is the G.O.A.T at DE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBills88 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Groot will break it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMAKCruiser Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 16 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said: If Bruce played in a 4-3 D, he'd have 300 sacks... Bruce did play in a 4-3 in Washington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMAKCruiser Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 17 hours ago, Momma Pecoraro said: Unlike White, in his prime Bruce had mostly mediocre linemates - Washington, Hansen, and a past prime Smerlas for a time excepted. Bruce didn't play with Washington until his 11th year in the league and I wouldn't call Ted mediocre ... He was an elite nose tackle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 I think every record will someday fall, but it’ll be a hard press to get into the 200 club for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Won’t be TJ Watt, he’ll start breaking down from all the massive roids well before he even gets close, just like his brother. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 No. Rules changes will deter a run at the record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 2 hours ago, SMAKCruiser said: Bruce didn't play with Washington until his 11th year in the league and I wouldn't call Ted mediocre ... He was an elite nose tackle. Actually it was his 16th season (out of 19) and yes, Ted was a stud, but they only played together for 5 years. If the Bills had someone like him during the SB years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMAKCruiser Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 33 minutes ago, Doc said: Actually it was his 16th season (out of 19) and yes, Ted was a stud, but they only played together for 5 years. If the Bills had someone like him during the SB years... I meant Ted Washington in his 11th year, not the Washington Redskins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 30 minutes ago, SMAKCruiser said: I meant Ted Washington in his 11th year, not the Washington Redskins. Gotcha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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