Chris Simms on Bills loss

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Yeah, I agree completely.  Diggs is not a game breaker, nobody fears him.  He can get open and make catches, but he doesn’t strike fear in you like a Hill, etc. He’s not physically scary.  Last year he got a load of catches, but his average was pathetic as a “game changer”.  

 

Absolute nonsense. Diggs is elite. Teams right now are very literally gameplanning to take him away because he scares them. Watching any all22 of our games and it is plain to see. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by GunnerBill

[Coffeesforclosers]

10 hours ago, gobills404 said:

How can anybody watch that game say that he didn't take the quick underneath stuff? He threw 26 attempts (55%) within 5 yards of the LOS and 35 attempts (74%) within 10 yards.

 

That's what your passing chart looks like when you've got no credible running game.  My god.  Chad Pennington could make those passes.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Some questions...

 

Simms said.. "the Bills talent is not that great.. there is no game changers other than Diggs and Diggs is not that much of a game changer compared to other top receivers" ...

 

Do we agree with this? Certainly wasnt the case last year.. he was great.. and what I would call a game changer.. now is it the same this year ? No.. but what are the reasons for this? Its too simple to say that "he has been figured out"...

 

Simms said.. "' they dont run the football.. they dont even try"...

 

Yes this is right.. because when they try they lose yards... so should they keep doing something that is not working?

At least bring Antonio Williams and try something different ...

 

To your bolded first: Did you watch the Simms thing?  He laid out why you keep doing something that's not working - because it keeps the defense needing to stop it, which opens other things up.  He pointed out that in several games, the Titans aren't exactly racking up the YPC, but they keep running because it forces the D to keep trying to stop it.

 

The point is, the Bills lack any kind of an offensive threat that doesn't go through Josh Allen, and that can't be the case for a long-term successful team.

 

The Antonio Williams thing is looking for a folk hero.  Yes, he did very well in the game against Miami, but in a final game against a team that had run for the bus, we have seen other players have great days that have not panned out in "for real" games (Duke Williams, Tommy Sweeney).  I don't think he's Adrian Peterson hidden on the Practice Squad.  Might he be worth a look, I'll go with the guys who see him in practice.  We might, too, since Moss is in concussion protocol.

 

"Difference maker" is one of those terms like "franchise QB" - it's a constantly shifting bar of expectations.  You can argue "Beasley is a difference maker" then it turns out to the person you're talking to, "difference maker" means "guy defenses fear could take it to the house on every play" not just "guy who is always open and can get you a first down" (which describes Beasley)

 

Diggs, Sanders, and Beasley are a quality trio of WR, but something is going on with Sanders.  He and Allen just don't seem to have "clicked".  He had a "foot injury" that kept him out of training camp and he didn't practice the week before the first 2 games, and he clearly wasn't where and when Josh expected him to be.  Then it got better but now it's worse again (Tenn and Jax), only catching half his targets.  In his interview, he alluded to some exchange with Diggs about going full speed in practice.  I think that was unintentionally revealing.

 

The Bills are clearly trying to push a lot of the offense through Sanders as the antidote to teams clamping down on Diggs, and it's not working out the way they want.  I think he needs to go on a pitch count with more snaps given to Davis and McKenzie, and the clear expectation laid out "you practice like you play".

 

 

 

 

 

[DCbillsfan]

11 hours ago, Mango said:

Allen has improved way more than I ever thought he would. He is now one of the better QB’s in the league. He’s elite, but elite at what he does. 
 

Allens next step has got to be learning how to change his style to the game he’s playing. If Allen wants to have some longevity and be the player we think he can be, he’ll have to learn to move the defense better with his eyes. And he has to get the ball out quicker. He holds on to the ball longer than almost every QB in the league. 
 

Lots of problems with the offense right now. I have some issue with Beane and Daboll, but Allen belongs in that conversation too. 

This plus I would add Allen is looking for the big play a little too much.  He seems to be pressing a little instead of taking the higher percentage throws and just keep moving the chains.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

So I agree running the ball more is not a solution. To an outside observer they see 47 pass attempts to 9 RB runs in a game that ended 9-6 and it seems ridiculous on the face of it. Usually you see that kind of disparity when a team is getting blown out all game. It's just hard to run a successful offense when we are that one dimensional.

 

So if running the ball more is not a solution, but as you also point out it's hard to run a successful offense when you are that one dimensional, what is your idea?

 

I'm confused

 

It seems to me that if it's hard to run a successful offense when you are that one dimensional, we need to be less one dimensional.

[benderbender]

Allen doesn’t have time to throw to the receivers we already have. Can OBJ block? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, gobills404 said:

How can anybody watch that game say that he didn't take the quick underneath stuff? He threw 26 attempts (55%) within 5 yards of the LOS and 35 attempts (74%) within 10 yards.

 

And to @gobills404 point: if you look at these charts for a number of games, you will see a similar pattern.

 

There are times when Allen does go for the deep shot several times in a row when there is a chain-moving throw underneath he could hit, and that might be the better situational choice. but the blanket "won't take the quick underneath stuff" is incorrect

 

And in general, Allen simply didn't have time to let deep plays develop

[Mango]

10 hours ago, gobills404 said:

How can anybody watch that game say that he didn't take the quick underneath stuff? He threw 26 attempts (55%) within 5 yards of the LOS and 35 attempts (74%) within 10 yards.

You are confusing short with quick. Josh held the ball for 3.12 seconds per throw last week (about average for him). That was good enough for third longest behind Darnold and Prescott. The only other players above 3 are Siemian and Brisset this week. 
 

He was also pretty low on intended air yards this week. 
 

Josh had a bad go. Some of that is on the OL. A lot of it is in Josh too. 

[Mango]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

And to @gobills404 point: if you look at these charts for a number of games, you will see a similar pattern.

 

There are times when Allen does go for the deep shot several times in a row when there is a chain-moving throw underneath he could hit, and that might be the better situational choice. but the blanket "won't take the quick underneath stuff" is incorrect

 

And in general, Allen simply didn't have time to let deep plays develop

 

Hoping this merges my above reply. Josh held the ball for as long as almost anybody in the league this past week. He has done this for almost his entire career. 

[GoBills808]

51 minutes ago, Mango said:

You are confusing short with quick. Josh held the ball for 3.12 seconds per throw last week (about average for him). That was good enough for third longest behind Darnold and Prescott. The only other players above 3 are Siemian and Brisset this week. 
 

He was also pretty low on intended air yards this week. 
 

Josh had a bad go. Some of that is on the OL. A lot of it is in Josh too. 

9 rushing attempts for 21 yards from the backs when you need to establish playaction to keep the defensive front honest against a makeshift oline. 47 pass attempts in a 9-6 loss. Is Allen calling the plays too?

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

You are confusing short with quick. Josh held the ball for 3.12 seconds per throw last week (about average for him). That was good enough for third longest behind Darnold and Prescott. The only other players above 3 are Siemian and Brisset this week. 
 

He was also pretty low on intended air yards this week. 
 

Josh had a bad go. Some of that is on the OL. A lot of it is in Josh too. 

 

Josh does have a tendency when he gets out of rhythm to hold the ball too long, I don't think that is in dispute. I think on Sunday a lot of it to my eye was whenever the protection did hold Josh wanted to take advantage and hit a big one. In those situations he was holding it too long. I have some sympathy with him though. He knows the line is bad and he is thinking "if I don't take the chance to go deep now how are we gonna move the ball?" 

[Mango]

22 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

9 rushing attempts for 21 yards from the backs when you need to establish playaction to keep the defensive front honest against a makeshift oline. 47 pass attempts in a 9-6 loss. Is Allen calling the plays too?

 

This isn't a pie. The OL, Allen, Daboll, etc. can all be to blame. Just because Allen or the OL or Daboll screw up, doesn't mean it necessarily shifts or exonerates other parties. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Mango said:

 

This isn't a pie. The OL, Allen, Daboll, etc. can all be to blame. Just because Allen or the OL or Daboll screw up, doesn't mean it necessarily shifts or exonerates other parties. 

You literally cannot play quarterback well when your line is that poor. It’s like an NFL truism.

[Mango]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Josh does have a tendency when he gets out of rhythm to hold the ball too long, I don't think that is in dispute. I think on Sunday a lot of it to my eye was whenever the protection did hold Josh wanted to take advantage and hit a big one. In those situations he was holding it too long. I have some sympathy with him though. He knows the line is bad and he is thinking "if I don't take the chance to go deep now how are we gonna move the ball?" 

 

I agree. The OL is not great. I also think that has gotten into his head, but maybe too much. I don't think it is "the worst" but it is most certainly not "the best". This grouping was at least adequate last year so I am really hesitant to call them any sort of embarrassment(maybe not you) like to claim. 

 

Make no bones about it. Saying Allen was bad doesn't necessarily mean that the OL or Daboll was good. It just means Allen was bad. 

 

My biggest frustration with Allen Sunday can probably be summarized in one play, the final offensive play of the game. Protection is fine. Allen gets a little jittery at the RT shuffling. He rolls right. Has Emmanuel Sanders open at the first down marker, but decides to try and thread the needle to a crossing and covered Diggs. It was right there for the taking!

Allen gets away with a lot because he is just better than everybody else. But sometimes he has to play like he is not. (If that makes any sense)

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

That's what your passing chart looks like when you've got no credible running game.  My god.  Chad Pennington could make those passes.

 

Chad Pennington actually couldn't make a number of those throws.  They would have been picked or deflected long before the ball arrived.

[Mango]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You literally cannot play quarterback well when your line is that poor. It’s like an NFL truism.

 

The final 4th down play is on Allen not the OL. Some plays are JA17's fault, others are not. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You literally cannot play quarterback well when your line is that poor. It’s like an NFL truism.

 

Yes.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

The final 4th down play is on Allen not the OL. Some plays are JA17's fault, others are not. 

The final play is what happens when you have completely and deservedly lost all faith in your protection.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

Hoping this merges my above reply. Josh held the ball for as long as almost anybody in the league this past week. He has done this for almost his entire career. 

 

I have two points. 

 

One is, how long the QB holds the ball is in no way a metric for OL effectiveness, when your QB is Josh.  How much of that time he is holding the ball is spent trying to find a guy who is open downfield or will be coming open, while evading defenders and extending the play into scramble drills? 

 

Just like a single long run for 30 yds averaged into 9 2 yard stuffs can look like a respectable 4.8 ypc, a couple of scramble drills where the QB extends the play can skew the time the QB holds the ball.

 

My eyes say that's happening.

 

Second point: when we're winning and scoring high, pundits extoll that Josh is being coached, and the play is designed for him, to make his reads deep to shallow, an aggressive play design.  The problem is that aggression backfires when there isn't time for deep to shallow progressions.

 

The Bills have never developed nor expected Josh to execute a quick passing game.  Maybe that needs to change, but you really need a TE who can run good routes and get open quickly and at least one other WR who gets open quickly for that.

 

Beasley is open on every play, but he's never been a receiver who gets open quickly.  His playing strength is that if you give him time, he'll lose anyone, but he needs time for that.

 

 

[Dan]

How does signing a malcontent WR help the Bills run more than 9 times a game?   
 

 

[Mango]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I have two points. 

 

One is, how long the QB holds the ball is in no way a metric for OL effectiveness, when your QB is Josh.  How much of that time he is holding the ball is spent trying to find a guy who is open downfield or will be coming open, while evading defenders and extending the play into scramble drills? 

 

Just like a single long run for 30 yds averaged into 9 2 yard stuffs can look like a respectable 4.8 ypc, a couple of scramble drills where the QB extends the play can skew the time the QB holds the ball.

 

My eyes say that's happening.

 

Second point: when we're winning and scoring high, pundits extoll that Josh is being coached to make his reads deep to shallow, as an aggressive play design.  The problem is that aggression backfires when there isn't time for that.

 

 

 

The post I was also responding to was using next gen to say Josh was taking the short and QUICK throwing. He wasn't quick, and he rarely ever is. 

 

I agree, Josh's style is a pro but also a con at times. I actually don't mind that he holds the ball longer than other QB's because he does have the ability to extend plays. 

 

Hard disagree that implication that Allen's TT metric is because of a couple long scrambles otherwise his game was hit the back foot of his drop and let it go.

To your comment about reading long to short. It is great when he reads long to short and he can make it work. But sometimes he has to read from short to long because that is what the game or his protection dictates. Josh can get away with what he does more often because he is bigger, stronger, better. But sometimes that isn't enough. 

 

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

The final play is what happens when you have completely and deservedly lost all faith in your protection.

 

I will give you the rolls out unnecessarily to an extent in that I understand it, but don't condone it. But facing and looking at an open guy on the most critical play of the game, and deciding to try to thread the needle to the moving and covered receiver has nothing to do with the OL. 

[Mango]

26 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I have two points. 

 

One is, how long the QB holds the ball is in no way a metric for OL effectiveness, when your QB is Josh.  How much of that time he is holding the ball is spent trying to find a guy who is open downfield or will be coming open, while evading defenders and extending the play into scramble drills? 

 

Just like a single long run for 30 yds averaged into 9 2 yard stuffs can look like a respectable 4.8 ypc, a couple of scramble drills where the QB extends the play can skew the time the QB holds the ball.

 

My eyes say that's happening.

 

Second point: when we're winning and scoring high, pundits extoll that Josh is being coached, and the play is designed for him, to make his reads deep to shallow, an aggressive play design.  The problem is that aggression backfires when there isn't time for deep to shallow progressions.

 

The Bills have never developed nor expected Josh to execute a quick passing game.  Maybe that needs to change, but you really need a TE who can run good routes and get open quickly and at least one other WR who gets open quickly for that.

 

Beasley is open on every play, but he's never been a receiver who gets open quickly.  His playing strength is that if you give him time, he'll lose anyone, but he needs time for that.

 

 

 

Adding on here post edit. 

I think Allen is smart. I also think Allen is making the right pre-snap read more often than not. But I also think he telegraphs a lot. I have criticized our screen game quite a bit. We have been using them more, but they are hard earned yards by the WR or RB because it tends to be snap, stare/wait, throw. The ball catcher on our screens are running through a ton of traffic a lot. Or in some cases, Allen might have the right read on Diggs on the crosser at the line, which is awesome. But he is watching Diggs the whole time to make his break. I would like to see Allen in that situation follow Sanders running the post above him to keep the safety away from Diggs to give himself an easier throw. 

Allen makes throws that nobody else in the league can. But some of that feels self inflicted. 

Some of this feels like a "we don't have the right kind of receivers for our QB to do X- thing" Which feels frustrating after signing our guy to a big contract. 

I think Allen is easily good enough to be our guy forever, but he is still on his learning curve, and has been frustrating this season. 

[Mat68]

15 hours ago, Pete said:

ODJ is not what the Bills need.  Not unless he kicks ass as Guard

What kick ass guard is available?

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

What kick ass guard is available?

reading comprehension? 

plenty of kick ass guards were available in round 2 last draft- but instead we drafted second DE- who is inactive most weeks

going forward Schreff is FA- now that Teller is off market- overpay for him.  Use 1st 3 draft pick 2 OL and RB

 

ODJ is not what the Bills need.  Not unless he kicks ass as Guard

 

where in my post did you think I said some kick ass guard was available? lmao

Edited November 9, 2021 by Pete

[GoBills808]

10 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Adding on here post edit. 

I think Allen is smart. I also think Allen is making the right pre-snap read more often than not. But I also think he telegraphs a lot. I have criticized our screen game quite a bit. We have been using them more, but they are hard earned yards by the WR or RB because it tends to be snap, stare/wait, throw. The ball catcher on our screens are running through a ton of traffic a lot. Or in some cases, Allen might have the right read on Diggs on the crosser at the line, which is awesome. But he is watching Diggs the whole time to make his break. I would like to see Allen in that situation follow Sanders running the post above him to keep the safety away from Diggs to give himself an easier throw. 

Allen makes throws that nobody else in the league can. But some of that feels self inflicted. 

Some of this feels like a "we don't have the right kind of receivers for our QB to do X- thing" Which feels frustrating after signing our guy to a big contract. 

I think Allen is easily good enough to be our guy forever, but he is still on his learning curve, and has been frustrating this season. 

Couple points: our screen issues have little to do with Allen's hesitancy to throw them (slow on screen passes is not a thing) and more about lacking  enough athleticism along the oline to sell a block and release with any kind of proficiency. The WR screens will work sometimes in certain looks, usually when the opposing safeties are off and corners are in man. That's more about Diggs' and Beasley's (former) ability to wiggle loose than any great play design or good blocking, however.

 

Any design that has Diggs on a shallow cross and Sanders a post isn't going to need Allen to hold either safety off because he wouldn't be responsible for both of those routes.

[Mat68]

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

reading comprehension? 

plenty of kick ass guards were available in round 2 last draft- but instead we drafted second DE- who is inactive most weeks

going forward Schreff is FA- now that Teller is off market- overpay for him.  Use 1st 3 draft pick 2 OL and RB

 

ODJ is not what the Bills need.  Not unless he kicks ass as Guard

 

where in my post did you think I said some kick ass guard was available? lmao

Everyone with eyes sees guard an issue that doesnt mean you cant fix other issues. 

[ngbills]

16 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Starts at 34:40, if I linked this right it should start right at that point. It goes on for about 8 minutes.

 

 

To summarize his thoughts:

 

1) The Bills offense hasn't really been clicking all year, the stats that say otherwise are misleading.

 

2) 47 pass attempts to only 9 rushing attempts from the RBs is game mismanagement in a tight defensive struggle. Since we don't run the ball at all we're too easy to game plan against. He thinks we should at least attempt to run the ball more to give defenses something else to think about. The co-host points out our 3 highest pass attempt games this year are also our 3 losses and all of them stayed within one score pretty much the entire way through.

 

3) Allen tried to do too much to overcome the offensive struggles all on his own. We could have won something like 15-9 if he didn't revert to old tendencies.

 

4) Diggs is the only true game changer on offense (other than Allen) and defenses have figured out how to stop him from taking over the game. He doesn't mention it in this video but he has advocated for the Bills signing Odell Beckham Jr to add another game changing type of talent.

I have been saying all year that the O stats are misleading. I have felt that the offense has been out of sync all season. There have been drives here and there that have looked great. But the overflow has been off. And Allen just looks like he is at max effort all the time. He has bouts of the bad feet. I hate to say it but maybe he worked harder the previous season so his muscle memory was more on point. In general, nothing is coming easy like it does when your clicking. I dont know if its on him, is it the OL, is it the playcalling or preparation? Likely a combo of all of the above.

[ngbills]

16 hours ago, Pete said:

ODJ is not what the Bills need.  Not unless he kicks ass as Guard

 

15 hours ago, RichRiderBills said:

I agree with him, but not on talent and OBJ. 

 

We need to get tougher, not a diva. 

 

15 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

OBJ Hasn't been a relevant player in the league since his 3rd season. After he got paid, he's never been the same.

 

14 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

This + 1000! Or tackle.

 

Both OGs and OTs were abused against the Jags as the only guy who played somewhat decent was Morse the center. 

 

I look at things differently though. I see it as game planning, play calling problem. 

 

Can't run the ball with the RBs, don't have time to throw the ball...yet, keep asking the QB to throw it? The QB ends up blaming himself and its the OC that hung him out to dry in my view. 

 

Find play calls that gets the ball out of the QB's hands in under 2 seconds. Run some misdirection run plays to wear the defense out. Jeez, Innovate!!

 

And yes, Stephon Diggs is a receiving "superstar" with a few others right behind him, Beas, Sanders are both pretty damn good at what they do too. Find ways to get Diggs the ball 10 plus times a game. 

 

12 hours ago, Old Coot said:

OBJ is indeed a "game changer" but not in the usual meaning of that phrase.

 

His drama tears a team apart.

 

2 hours ago, benderbender said:

Allen doesn’t have time to throw to the receivers we already have. Can OBJ block? 

 

1 hour ago, Dan said:

How does signing a malcontent WR help the Bills run more than 9 times a game?   
 

 

OBJ provides a WR that can get open right off the line of scrimmage. I dont know if we have that right now. If you focus on Diggs, then both Beasley and Sanders are not guys that are going to dominate a DB at the line. Davis is the closest to that but I dont think they trust him. OBJ would force teams to focus on both Diggs and him much differently than with Beas and Sanders. 

[Mango]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Couple points: our screen issues have little to do with Allen's hesitancy to throw them (slow on screen passes is not a thing) and more about lacking  enough athleticism along the oline to sell a block and release with any kind of proficiency. The WR screens will work sometimes in certain looks, usually when the opposing safeties are off and corners are in man. That's more about Diggs' and Beasley's (former) ability to wiggle loose than any great play design or good blocking, however.

 

Any design that has Diggs on a shallow cross and Sanders a post isn't going to need Allen to hold either safety off because he wouldn't be responsible for both of those routes.

 

I meant dig and the receiver coming across the field. A safety will absolutely creep up if he reads the play coming across his face. 

Regarding the screen. in a  general sense, I agree that the OL is not athletic enough to pull or get outside. In some cases Allen needs to fire the ball out quickly to counteract the pressure. In others he has to hold the defense back to give his WR some room to work. Peyton was just talking about this a few weeks ago in regards to a bad game Mahomes was having, and a criticism. He didn't hold the defense off before throwing the screen. He also mentioned it as an improvement as the game went on. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

16 hours ago, HappyDays said:

4) Diggs is the only true game changer on offense (other than Allen) and defenses have figured out how to stop him from taking over the game. He doesn't mention it in this video but he has advocated for the Bills signing Odell Beckham Jr to add another game changing type of talent.

 

I agree with this, and even then, Diggs isn't a physical mismatch on the field. 

 

That's what struck me Sunday, without Knox, we have no physical mismatches on the field. 

 

You can't base an offense around Cole Beasley underneath, or Sanders trying to get deep. If Diggs can't be the go-to player, and Knox is out the Bills have no other options. 

 

Since Tennessee we have become rather obsessed with making Zack Moss a feature player in this offense for some reason. 

[ngbills]

3 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

 

 

Since Tennessee we have become rather obsessed with making Zack Moss a feature player in this offense for some reason. 

It is insane. Dont get it. Moss has 25 targets this season in only 6.5 games. He had 18 all of last season. 

[Nihilarian]

14 minutes ago, ngbills said:

OBJ provides a WR that can get open right off the line of scrimmage. I dont know if we have that right now. If you focus on Diggs, then both Beasley and Sanders are not guys that are going to dominate a DB at the line. Davis is the closest to that but I dont think they trust him. OBJ would force teams to focus on both Diggs and him much differently than with Beas and Sanders. 

If OBJ was that good at being open right off the line...then why wasn't Cleveland throwing to him more often?

 

One game the guy had 7 targets and had only 2 receptions. His catch percentage in Cleveland is about 50%.  Diggs is about 1000% better at this time.

 

The problem with the offense is that Josh needs time in the pocket to throw the called plays... and he isn't getting it. Time to change the game plan, play calling to slants, quick outs to get the ball out in under 2 seconds. This is all on the OC.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, ngbills said:

It is insane. Dont get it. Moss has 25 targets this season in only 6.5 games. He had 18 all of last season. 

I don't think Zack Moss brings anything unique to this team. 

 

He fits that Sean McDermott slow, plodder type back. It wasn't surprising that we sniffed around Adrian Peterson, that's McDermott. 

 

But with Moss, an example I can't stand is that he immediately gets to come into the game in the Red Zone, as if he is dynamic weapon. Singletary has to go to the bench and it becomes Moss time, why?

 

He talks about "business decisions" and it's like dude, you're a fringe NFL running back with zero speed. 

 

Every time we chose to get him the ball instead of Isaiah McKenzie on a dump-off, I don't get it. 

 

 

[SCBills]

45 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I don't think Zack Moss brings anything unique to this team. 

 

He fits that Sean McDermott slow, plodder type back. It wasn't surprising that we sniffed around Adrian Peterson, that's McDermott. 

 

But with Moss, an example I can't stand is that he immediately gets to come into the game in the Red Zone, as if he is dynamic weapon. Singletary has to go to the bench and it becomes Moss time, why?

 

He talks about "business decisions" and it's like dude, you're a fringe NFL running back with zero speed. 

 

Every time we chose to get him the ball instead of Isaiah McKenzie on a dump-off, I don't get it. 

 

 

 

If we're only going to run with a RB 10x per game, see if we can't use McKenzie in a Cordarelle Patterson role.  

 

I know we're getting into off the wall suggestions here, but we desperately need guys out there that can turn a 5 yard dump off into 15-20.  Without Knox, that element has been nonexistent. 

[ngbills]

53 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I don't think Zack Moss brings anything unique to this team. 

 

He fits that Sean McDermott slow, plodder type back. It wasn't surprising that we sniffed around Adrian Peterson, that's McDermott. 

 

But with Moss, an example I can't stand is that he immediately gets to come into the game in the Red Zone, as if he is dynamic weapon. Singletary has to go to the bench and it becomes Moss time, why?

 

He talks about "business decisions" and it's like dude, you're a fringe NFL running back with zero speed. 

 

Every time we chose to get him the ball instead of Isaiah McKenzie on a dump-off, I don't get it. 

 

 

Agreed - I would at least like to see them mix in the McK jetsweep or give Breida a shot. Breida can at least hit the hole faster meaning OL need to hold the block less time. 

 

6 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

If we're only going to run with a RB 10x per game, see if we can't use McKenzie in a Cordarelle Patterson role.  

 

I know we're getting into off the wall suggestions here, but we desperately need guys out there that can turn a 5 yard dump off into 15-20.  Without Knox, that element has been nonexistent. 

Agreed - even Breida can run a jet sweep 

[corta765]

18 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

Yup…. I said this team has two difference maker on offence and maybe one on defence with White.  

 

Agreed. I know Bills fans really love to hype our team, but the Bills are more driven by a deep collection of B- to B+ type players with maybe 3-4 true A caliber guys being Allen, Diggs, White, & I would argue Milano when healthy which is his biggest caveat. The depth helps in terms of making the team competitive across the board, but they are missing at least one if not two guys to put them over the top for real. The defensive line is good example of this because they are solid as a group at DT/DE but realistically there is no true star or alpha player just guys playing their role at a high level. Now nothing necessarily wrong with this when you have Allen at QB especially, but the Bills look a lot to me like the Packers of the last decade where they have a stud QB, WR, one two guys on defense and then just depth not true alpha difference makers. That is the missing piece and its hard to get.

[Mango]

16 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Agreed - I would at least like to see them mix in the McK jetsweep or give Breida a shot. Breida can at least hit the hole faster meaning OL need to hold the block less time. 

 

Agreed - even Breida can run a jet sweep 

This, I would love to see us try and get outside more. We have a knack for just sort of: 

1. Pounding the ball at a wall of people between the tackles (success or skill be damned)

2. Taking guys who are either decent receiving threats and/or have some outside speed, and just not dressing them at all so that we can rinse and repeat no. 1, 

[Niagara Dude]

4 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

Agreed. I know Bills fans really love to hype our team, but the Bills are more driven by a deep collection of B- to B+ type players with maybe 3-4 true A caliber guys being Allen, Diggs, White, & I would argue Milano when healthy which is his biggest caveat. The depth helps in terms of making the team competitive across the board, but they are missing at least one if not two guys to put them over the top for real. The defensive line is good example of this because they are solid as a group at DT/DE but realistically there is no true star or alpha player just guys playing their role at a high level. Now nothing necessarily wrong with this when you have Allen at QB especially, but the Bills look a lot to me like the Packers of the last decade where they have a stud QB, WR, one two guys on defense and then just depth not true alpha difference makers. That is the missing piece and its hard to get.

[Success]

17 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Some questions...

 

Simms said.. "the Bills talent is not that great.. there is no game changers other than Diggs and Diggs is not that much of a game changer compared to other top receivers" ...

 

Do we agree with this? Certainly wasnt the case last year.. he was great.. and what I would call a game changer.. now is it the same this year ? No.. but what are the reasons for this? Its too simple to say that "he has been figured out"...

 

Simms said.. "' they dont run the football.. they dont even try"...

 

Yes this is right.. because when they try they lose yards... so should they keep doing something that is not working?

At least bring Antonio Williams and try something different ...

 

As to the first part - I do NOT agree that Diggs is the only game changer.  I was thrilled about our WR corps heading into the season. Very few teams have 2 guys with elite talent like Diggs - but Sanders, Beasley and Davis are all capable of big plays & games (as well as Knox when healthy).

 

Davis has been a bit of an enigma to me.  It felt like he was breaking out last year, and I thought he'd take that next step this year.  I would love to see him get more involved.

 

The run game is tough, though. We don't have a mix of backs - they're all basically the same in terms of skillset and potential.  They're all # 2's.

 

[Niagara Dude]

Just now, Niagara Dude said:

5 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

Agreed. I know Bills fans really love to hype our team, but the Bills are more driven by a deep collection of B- to B+ type players with maybe 3-4 true A caliber guys being Allen, Diggs, White, & I would argue Milano when healthy which is his biggest caveat. The depth helps in terms of making the team competitive across the board, but they are missing at least one if not two guys to put them over the top for real. The defensive line is good example of this because they are solid as a group at DT/DE but realistically there is no true star or alpha player just guys playing their role at a high level. Now nothing necessarily wrong with this when you have Allen at QB especially, but the Bills look a lot to me like the Packers of the last decade where they have a stud QB, WR, one two guys on defense and then just depth not true alpha difference makers. That is the missing piece and its hard to get.

I agree,  Milano is solid must not in pro bowl level.  Where we really missed on is some of the free agent signing that Beane spent good money and got little back in return. Star/Addision/Klein/Morse were given good size deals and really have not offered much.  Even though i am not happy with the roster right now,  i know it's always easier to fix when you have pro bowl level QB who is only 25.  We just need to hit on some picks because guys like Singletary/Ford look like busts and then get lucky signing some free agents who contribute.  The foundation is there,  add a couple more difference makers,  maybe each on one side of the ball. 

 

End of the day the Bills finally GOT THE QB and that is the toughest to get