In-Roster Offensive Line Option

[SCBills]

Not going to overreact to one game.  
 

We all know the IOL is the weak spot in pass pro, so I’ll chalk up Williams/Dawkins struggles on Sunday to a one off.   Dawkins especially, as he’s coming off Covid and never looks that bad. 
 

That being said, watching that game was infuriating to those of us who were begging to upgrade the Guard positions.  
 

Anyone think we could move Daryl Williams inside to one of the Guard positions if/when Brown is ready to take over RT?  
 

Leaves us with Doyle as swing and Ford/Williams/Bates able to flip back out to Tackle if needed, but im just at a loss for what we saw from our starting OL against a 4 man rush most of the game.  

[TOboy]

I thought you weren’t going to overreact to one game? 

[RyanC883]

I don't think the OP is overreacting to one game.  I think there are several suggestions, including the OPs.  Others include running the ball more, we appear to be better at run blocking, and it's easier to block when the D does not know what you're doing.  It does appear we will need to fix the OL with in-roster moves.  Our rookies luckily look like they can play, so lets get the best 5 lineman out there.  

[Eastport bills]

52 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Not going to overreact to one game.  
 

We all know the IOL is the weak spot in pass pro, so I’ll chalk up Williams/Dawkins struggles on Sunday to a one off.   Dawkins especially, as he’s coming off Covid and never looks that bad. 
 

That being said, watching that game was infuriating to those of us who were begging to upgrade the Guard positions.  
 

Anyone think we could move Daryl Williams inside to one of the Guard positions if/when Brown is ready to take over RT?  
 

Leaves us with Doyle as swing and Ford/Williams/Bates able to flip back out to Tackle if needed, but im just at a loss for what we saw from our starting OL against a 4 man rush most of the game.  

Ford, Dawkins  had scary bad games. Especially Dawkins who is clearly not ready to play left tackle on a empty set, pass happy team. Let Brown play more until Dion recovers fully.

[SCBills]

When Brown was drafted, there was speculation by some of the Bills podcast guys of Williams kicking inside if Brown could take over RT. 
 

Let’s see how they look over the next few games, but I’m hoping we have the solution to a dominant OL in house right now. 

[CuseBill]

I would say it would be an overreaction to do something as drastic as moving Williams to guard and replacing him with a rookie at right tackle.  First of all, the Steelers' front four is one of the best we will face all season. There should have been in-game adjustments by the OC, which did not occur.  Did we attempt a single screen?  Did we try to run the ball on first or second down earlier in the game?  Why did we not go no huddle and run a QB sneak on 4th and 1?  How many empty sets did we throw from?  Those are the questions which the coaching staff should be looking at.  Of course our O line had some bad plays and bad penalties.  Those are going to happen from time to time.  But there is no excuse to not making adjustments in the play calling as the game developed. 

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, CuseBill said:

I would say it would be an overreaction to do something as drastic as moving Williams to guard and replacing him with a rookie at right tackle.  First of all, the Steelers' front four is one of the best we will face all season. There should have been in-game adjustments by the OC, which did not occur.  Did we attempt a single screen?  Did we try to run the ball on first or second down earlier in the game?  Why did we not go no huddle and run a QB sneak on 4th and 1?  How many empty sets did we throw from?  Those are the questions which the coaching staff should be looking at.  Of course our O line had some bad plays and bad penalties.  Those are going to happen from time to time.  But there is no excuse to not making adjustments in the play calling as the game developed. 

I certainly don’t think we should kick Williams inside and start Brown at RT for Miami.   That would be wildly reactionary to an opening day game.  
 

Im just putting this out there as an option, because this isn’t just Week 1… These are same guys (for the most part) and same issues we saw against the Chiefs.  
 

If the goal is to win a SB, we can’t have an OL that holds up really well against everyone EXCEPT teams we’ll see in the Playoffs. 

[CuseBill]

I think Ford, Feliciano and Boettger are stronger in the run game than they are in pass pro.  That being said, if you almost never run the ball, never pass out of 11 personnel sets, never run play action and never throw screen passes, you are just exposing their vulnerabilities and not playing at all to their strengths.  That's on Daboll.

[BillsVet]

At some point, offensive scheme needs to align with offensive personnel.  Their game-plan yesterday tried to use OL who are solid run blockers (save Morse) and needed them to pass protect 50 times. 

 

If they wanted to be pass-happy (and I can understand with Josh and those receivers) then invest in better pass blockers.  Issue is, they didn't do much to improve their ability to run and now it's too late to be adding pieces to enable them.

 

When you become a good team, scheme versatility is a must and I'm not seeing this organization doing that on offense. 

 

 

[mjd1001]

This OL is just not good.  Average starters at best. All last year they proved they couldn't open holes for RBs on consistent basis, and their pass blocking is decent, but they can be pushed into the backfield against a very good DL.

 

They are not the worst unit in the league, but for sure they are a weak spot on this team, just like there were last year for anyone who really paid attention to their play.  It is a position the coaching staff will have to work around.

[frostbitmic]

With all of his penalties, Dawkins clearly wasn't ready to play yesterday, Bobby Hart couldn't have been worse.

 

Feliciano wasn't much better.

 

I didn't notice Morse, Ford or Williams much but that could just be that the left side of the line was so abysmal.

[GunnerBill]

52 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

I don't think the OP is overreacting to one game.  I think there are several suggestions, including the OPs.  Others include running the ball more, we appear to be better at run blocking, and it's easier to block when the D does not know what you're doing.  It does appear we will need to fix the OL with in-roster moves.  Our rookies luckily look like they can play, so lets get the best 5 lineman out there.  

 

I don't think we are better run blocking. Until Pitt were in more of a prevent Singletary was averaging less than 3.5 per carry. 

 

I don't know what the fix it. Maybe trade for a guard? It is hard with our cap situation.

[Augie]

17 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

At some point, offensive scheme needs to align with offensive personnel.  Their game-plan yesterday tried to use OL who are solid run blockers (save Morse) and needed them to pass protect 50 times. 

 

If they wanted to be pass-happy (and I can understand with Josh and those receivers) then invest in better pass blockers.  Issue is, they didn't do much to improve their ability to run and now it's too late to be adding pieces to enable them.

 

When you become a good team, scheme versatility is a must and I'm not seeing this organization doing that on offense. 

 

 

We took a flight in with Morse’s uncle (I think, some said father). He told me this would probably be his last year in Buffalo. I said I thought he had one more year on his deal, and he just shrugged and said “well, you know…” 

 

 

.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Augie

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think we are better run blocking. Until Pitt were in more of a prevent Singletary was averaging less than 3.5 per carry. 

 

I don't know what the fix it. Maybe trade for a guard? It is hard with our cap situation.

 

Move Williams inside to Guard, Brown at RT. 

 

Maybe bench Morse and put Feliciano at C.  

 

Only two options we really have. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Move Williams inside to Guard, Brown at RT. 

 

Maybe bench Morse and put Feliciano at C.  

 

Only two options we really have. 

 

I need to watch it again but my initial instinct was that Feliciano was the worst player on the line yesterday. I thought he had a horrible game. The Williams inside and Brown to RT suggestion is worth considering... but I wouldn't go to that yet. Maybe if come the bye we are still really struggling then I'd go that way. 

[John from Riverside]

Maybe stop overreacting and one game at the beginning of the season

 

This is a marathon folks

[SCBills]

8 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Maybe stop overreacting and one game at the beginning of the season

 

This is a marathon folks

 

It's not one game though, and we have the same OL as last year. 

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

 It's not one game though, and we have the same OL as last year. 

 

I’m pretty sure is was one game. Will the next 16 be any better? Hard to say, but I sure hope so!  Hard to be overly optimistic with the same cast of characters. First they overhauled WR room, then DL. I think next offseason will be all about the OL. 

 

 

.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Augie

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

I’m pretty sure is was one game. Will the next 16 be any better? Hard to say, but I sure hope so! 

 

This game looked exactly like the 2 Chiefs games last year.  

 

If we made any changes to the starting OL, i'd be willing to say it's one week, but it's not.... it's a continuation of the same issues we saw these starting 4 plus Boettger or Ford have last year against a good team with a dominant DL.

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Not going to overreact to one game.  
 

We all know the IOL is the weak spot in pass pro, so I’ll chalk up Williams/Dawkins struggles on Sunday to a one off.   Dawkins especially, as he’s coming off Covid and never looks that bad. 
 

That being said, watching that game was infuriating to those of us who were begging to upgrade the Guard positions.  
 

Anyone think we could move Daryl Williams inside to one of the Guard positions if/when Brown is ready to take over RT?  
 

Leaves us with Doyle as swing and Ford/Williams/Bates able to flip back out to Tackle if needed, but im just at a loss for what we saw from our starting OL against a 4 man rush most of the game.  

Pittsburgh has a dominating pass rush. So, our idea was to go 5 wide a good portion of the game. Not a great plan. Then when they saw our line couldn't contain it they didn't adjust. Could have had a back or TE help with chipping off the line and staying in to block. Nope. Moss, who many say is our best pass blocking RB wasn't even dressed. We have 2 and a half TEs on the roster and neither is a noted blocker. 

 

Of the players we did dress yesterday they still could have been an asset to slow the rush. Get Brieda in space and let them chase. Mix in a screen pass here and there. Their DC said flat out they were prepared for an 80-20 pass to run ratio and we gave them that. For most of the game our "running game" consisted of Josh and his 2 yard awkward looking keepers. Terrible planning +terrible execution + terrible adjustments and the Bills deserved that loss.

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

This game looked exactly like the 2 Chiefs games last year.  

 

If we made any changes to the starting OL, i'd be willing to say it's one week, but it's not.... it's a continuation of the same issues we saw these starting 4 plus Boettger or Ford have last year against a good team with a dominant DL.

 

See the rest of the edited post above, please. Should have included that initially. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

58 minutes ago, SCBills said:

When Brown was drafted, there was speculation by some of the Bills podcast guys of Williams kicking inside if Brown could take over RT. 
 

Let’s see how they look over the next few games, but I’m hoping we have the solution to a dominant OL in house right now. 

I wouldn't overreact to the OL play, I'll chalk this up to first game against one of the best defenses if not the best in the league and hopefully they improve their play when we meet them again in the playoffs. It easier saying we can put Williams in at G and add a rookie at RT and having it work out then it probably would.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

18 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

It's not one game though, and we have the same OL as last year. 

No we don't. This starting 5 never played a single snap together last year

[BBills88]

How about Draft some young nasty guards. 

[Gambit]

22 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I’m pretty sure is was one game. Will the next 16 be any better? Hard to say, but I sure hope so!  Hard to be overly optimistic with the same cast of characters. First they overhauled WR room, then DL. I think next offseason will be all about the OL. 

 

 

.

Hopefully with CB2 also.

[SCBills]

10 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

No we don't. This starting 5 never played a single snap together last year

 

C'mon.... Dawkins - Morse - Feliciano - Williams are the mainstays.  You're squabbling over Ford getting injured and then Boettger taking over.  

 

We know what this OL is.  One really good tackle (when healthy), another typically above average tackle, an ok Center and poor guard play.  We all knew the weak spot heading into the offseason, it wasn't addressed, and we saw it exposed in Week One. 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by SCBills

[Hapless Bills Fan]

42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I need to watch it again but my initial instinct was that Feliciano was the worst player on the line yesterday. I thought he had a horrible game. The Williams inside and Brown to RT suggestion is worth considering... but I wouldn't go to that yet. Maybe if come the bye we are still really struggling then I'd go that way. 

 

I thought the worst guy on the line yesterday was Dawkins.  When you re-watch, be sure to consider whether some Feliciano problems are actually Dawkins problems or Morse problems.  I’m not saying they are, but that’s a thing that often gets missed.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I thought the worst guy on the line yesterday was Dawkins.  When you re-watch, be sure to consider whether some Feliciano problems are actually Dawkins problems or Morse problems.  I’m not saying they are, but that’s a thing that often gets missed.

 

Yea Dion was awful too. He isn't back to his playing weight and I think it showed. Feliciano was definitely bad though. Will definitely be even more focussed in on the line in my rewatch.

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

I don't think the OP is overreacting to one game.  I think there are several suggestions, including the OPs.  Others include running the ball more, we appear to be better at run blocking, and it's easier to block when the D does not know what you're doing.  It does appear we will need to fix the OL with in-roster moves.  Our rookies luckily look like they can play, so lets get the best 5 lineman out there.  

 

It appears that Cody Ford got job over Ike Boettger because he is a better run blocker.

Bills ought to consider putting in Spencer Brown as extra tackle to help with blocking.

It would give less targets but when defense line is strong better to keep extra lineman than put in another target.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Limeaid
put in wrong name

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

It appears that Ryan Bates got job over Ike Boettger because he is a better run blocker.

Bills ought to consider putting in Spencer Brown as extra tackle to help with blocking.

It would give less targets but when defense line is strong better to keep extra lineman than put in another target.

 

Just a point that an extra tackle, or even extra blockers, don’t necessarily solve the problems we were having yesterday.

 

There were either scheme issues (where the protections were no longer appropriate for late shifts in the line just before the snap), or we just had 2 guys getting beat - when they rush 3 and get home, that means 2 of 3 guys are getting doubled, and we were still losing.  And there was at least one play where Singletary was in to block, and standing there going “who I’m supposed to block?” while Ingram was whizzing by on his left, having beaten Dawkins.

 

We need to take blocking seriously and that means Moss > Singletary > Breida.

 

I have no idea what you mean by “Ryan Bates got the job over Ike Boettger”; Bates is our backup center and IOL.

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, TOboy said:

I thought you weren’t going to overreact to one game? 

This is not a “one game” overreaction. The interior oline was bad last year

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

When Brown was drafted, there was speculation by some of the Bills podcast guys of Williams kicking inside if Brown could take over RT. 
 

Let’s see how they look over the next few games, but I’m hoping we have the solution to a dominant OL in house right now. 

Will they take the “don’t open til injury” tag off of Bates? 

1 hour ago, frostbitmic said:

With all of his penalties, Dawkins clearly wasn't ready to play yesterday, Bobby Hart couldn't have been worse.

 

Feliciano wasn't much better.

 

I didn't notice Morse, Ford or Williams much but that could just be that the left side of the line was so abysmal.

Morse had a crucial holding penalty. He wasn’t much better

[US Egg]

Hope it's a case of Pittsburgh reincarnating a 2021 version of the '70's Steel Curtain 'D' line than the Bills 'O' line is simply overwhelmed by a four man push, as they showed yesterday.

 

A return to the pre 2020 "run Josh run" offense won't fly this season.

Edited September 13, 2021 by I am the egg man

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

 

Move Williams inside to Guard, Brown at RT. 

 

Maybe bench Morse and put Feliciano at C.  

 

Only two options we really have. 

Have Bates play center. Try the rookie inside. Most teams play their potential tackles inside before moving them to the outside. Or move Dawkins inside until he gets his conditioning back and let Brown play his spot

[4BillsintheBurgh]

31 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

It appears that Ryan Bates got job over Ike Boettger because he is a better run blocker.

Bills ought to consider putting in Spencer Brown as extra tackle to help with blocking.

It would give less targets but when defense line is strong better to keep extra lineman than put in another target.

You should watch the job Brown did as the extra LT on the 4th down shovel pass.

[Punching Bag]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I have no idea what you mean by “Ryan Bates got the job over Ike Boettger”; Bates is our backup center and IOL.

 

I meant  Cody Ford.

[MAJBobby]

3 hours ago, SCBills said:

Not going to overreact to one game.  
 

We all know the IOL is the weak spot in pass pro, so I’ll chalk up Williams/Dawkins struggles on Sunday to a one off.   Dawkins especially, as he’s coming off Covid and never looks that bad. 
 

That being said, watching that game was infuriating to those of us who were begging to upgrade the Guard positions.  
 

Anyone think we could move Daryl Williams inside to one of the Guard positions if/when Brown is ready to take over RT?  
 

Leaves us with Doyle as swing and Ford/Williams/Bates able to flip back out to Tackle if needed, but im just at a loss for what we saw from our starting OL against a 4 man rush most of the game.  

No.  If Brown is ready, I would rather him move inside, anything to get Feliciano off the field as an OG.  

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

No.  If Brown is ready, I would rather him move inside, anything to get Feliciano off the field as an OG.  

 

I can't believe we re-signed him as a starter.  If they want him as a versatile backup G/C, fine... but get this dude off the field.  

 

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by SCBills

[MAJBobby]

Just now, SCBills said:

 

I can't believe we re-signed him as a starter.  If they want him as a backup G/C, fine... but get this dude off the field.  

I was initially fine with the re-sign as I thought it was to Kick him into Center, and move on from Morse, but to watch him get abused all season as a OG again is going to make me go Nuts.

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

 

It's not one game though, and we have the same OL as last year. 

Every season is a new season and should be treated as such.......if people are going to cry about the offensive line as last year then they should also give the same cred to the team that made it to the AFC Championship (and had a runner up NFL MVP on the roster)

 

People are picking and choosing.......to fit their own agenda right now

[Punching Bag]

3 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

You should watch the job Brown did as the extra LT on the 4th down shovel pass.

 

JMO 4th down is different than an extra man on a shovel pass (not a good idea) put in there to give QB extra time on 1st and 2nd down.