Pats* fans cause trouble, get flight canceled

[Just Jack]

https://nypost.com/2021/07/06/american-airlines-flight-to-bahamas-canceled-after-boston-teens-refuse-masks

[TBBills]

I can just picture the bawston accents and just trash coming out of there mouths.

[Jauronimo]

I can only imagine the rage the other passengers who missed a day of vacation must be feeling.  I think my days of getting in fights are long since over but it would be tempting to beat up a punk kid with my adult muscles in this situation.  

[Augie]

20 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I can only imagine the rage the other passengers who missed a day of vacation must be feeling.  I think my days of getting in fights are long since over but it would be tempting to beat up a punk kid with my adult muscles in this situation.  

 

If the beverage cart carried Gatorade I would pay for you to continue. If those little mini bottles would help keep the beat down going, I’m good for whatever the cart carries! 

 

Count me out for bail! 

[Chandler#81]

Mask-holes.

Perfect.

[SinceThe70s]

Your cousin from Boston?

 

(For the record my cousins from Boston are great)

[Punching Bag]

None of them were charged.

 

I cannot not figure out (and surprised no one asked airline) why they did not just leave those who refused to wear masks at airport.

[Doc Brown]

31 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

None of them were charged.

 

I cannot not figure out (and surprised no one asked airline) why they did not just leave those who refused to wear masks at airport.

Plus, why delay the flight after kicking them off?  Maybe the crew timed out by the time it took to get those jackasses off the plane.

[sherpa]

5 hours ago, Limeaid said:

None of them were charged.

 

I cannot not figure out (and surprised no one asked airline) why they did not just leave those who refused to wear masks at airport.

 

Because it's a lot more complicated than that.

One, two or three passengers, not that big of a deal.

Thirty, and minors is a big deal and presents a very complicated issue that would require a lot of people and a lot of time to sort out.

[qwksilver]

No consequences for their actions. That'll help teach them a lesson. Where was the police in this? Send the bill to the parents....

[Doc]

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

Because it's a lot more complicated than that.

One, two or three passengers, not that big of a deal.

Thirty, and minors is a big deal and presents a very complicated issue that would require a lot of people and a lot of time to sort out.

 

How?  Either you cancel the flight or kick these morons off of it, they're going to have to call mommy and/or daddy to get them anyway.

[sherpa]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

How?  Either you cancel the flight or kick these morons off of it, they're going to have to call mommy and/or daddy to get them anyway.

 

The airline is not a law enforcement organization.

Are they supposed to sit everyone down and have an illegal hearing?

Airport cops are not staffed enough to handle this either. Nor do they want to.

Thirty kids to handle and decide who stays and who goes. Way too much work and way too much time and would undoubtedly result in lawsuits.

Are they to take statements from the other passengers?

"Mommy and Daddy" are not going to come from Boston to Charlotte to pick them up, so do you fly them back to Boston?

Not likely, and the lawyers would be overwhelming, because they'd all be individual cases.

It would be a legal quagmire.

 

What about the bags?

How long would that take to get sorted out?

How many people?

 

Charlotte had a very rough weather day that day. The airplane had already been swapped out once and that certainly took some time.

How about crew duty time limitations?

Probably not an issue, but how about destination curfew issues including customs/immigration and the current presence of Covid screeners?

 

Regarding a previous post about "teaching them a lesson," that is hardly the airlines' task.

 

The point is that it is much more complicated than it was presented in the very limited story published.

 

It's unfortunate that those not involved had to wait until the next morning, but when a group of idiots behaves like this is has effects on others.

 

[frostbitmic]

I'm thinking that those individiots that caused the flight to be "delayed" a day should be held financially responsible from both the people who had their vacation delayed a day and the airline for what it cost them. $$$

 

Not holding them or their parents accountable for their actions teaches them nothing and they'll be massholes for life.

[Seasons1992]

24 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

The airline is not a law enforcement organization.

Are they supposed to sit everyone down and have an illegal hearing?

Airport cops are not staffed enough to handle this either. Nor do they want to.

Thirty kids to handle and decide who stays and who goes. Way too much work and way too much time and would undoubtedly result in lawsuits.

Are they to take statements from the other passengers?

"Mommy and Daddy" are not going to come from Boston to Charlotte to pick them up, so do you fly them back to Boston?

Not likely, and the lawyers would be overwhelming, because they'd all be individual cases.

It would be a legal quagmire.

 

What about the bags?

How long would that take to get sorted out?

How many people?

 

Charlotte had a very rough weather day that day. The airplane had already been swapped out once and that certainly took some time.

How about crew duty time limitations?

Probably not an issue, but how about destination curfew issues including customs/immigration and the current presence of Covid screeners?

 

Regarding a previous post about "teaching them a lesson," that is hardly the airlines' task.

 

The point is that it is much more complicated than it was presented in the very limited story published.

 

It's unfortunate that those not involved had to wait until the next morning, but when a group of idiots behaves like this is has effects on others.

 

 

People, 

 

@sherpa knows what he's talking about. This is the post that explains it all perfectly.

[Doc]

42 minutes ago, sherpa said:

The airline is not a law enforcement organization.

Are they supposed to sit everyone down and have an illegal hearing?

Airport cops are not staffed enough to handle this either. Nor do they want to.

Thirty kids to handle and decide who stays and who goes. Way too much work and way too much time and would undoubtedly result in lawsuits.

Are they to take statements from the other passengers?

"Mommy and Daddy" are not going to come from Boston to Charlotte to pick them up, so do you fly them back to Boston?

Not likely, and the lawyers would be overwhelming, because they'd all be individual cases.

It would be a legal quagmire.

 

What about the bags?

How long would that take to get sorted out?

How many people?

 

Charlotte had a very rough weather day that day. The airplane had already been swapped out once and that certainly took some time.

How about crew duty time limitations?

Probably not an issue, but how about destination curfew issues including customs/immigration and the current presence of Covid screeners?

 

Regarding a previous post about "teaching them a lesson," that is hardly the airlines' task.

 

The point is that it is much more complicated than it was presented in the very limited story published.

 

It's unfortunate that those not involved had to wait until the next morning, but when a group of idiots behaves like this is has effects on others.

 

 

Aren't the airlines allowed to kick-off anyone they want, if they're not following their rules?  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

I can only imagine the rage the other passengers who missed a day of vacation must be feeling.  I think my days of getting in fights are long since over but it would be tempting to beat up a punk kid with my adult muscles in this situation.  

 

Pretty much:

Quote

“Well, I’m a nurse, and it’s really, really hard to get time off work. So when you finally get time off, you really want to be somewhere you want to be,” Randolph told WSOC-TV.

“Some people’s vacations are ruined. They were only going for a couple of nights. Now, they have to get rebooked,” added Stephanie Krzywanski. “Nobody likes it. Nobody wants to sit around and do this, but you’ve got to follow the rules.”

 

21 minutes ago, Doc said:

Aren't the airlines allowed to kick-off anyone they want, if they're not following their rules?  

 

They are, but when there are 30 of them, it's a problem of scale.   No airline wants a repeat of that Tenn. doctor thing where a guy is dragged down the aisle breaking his nose and getting concussed. much less x30 and involving kids.  That would be lawsuit city.

 

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

The airline is not a law enforcement organization.

Are they supposed to sit everyone down and have an illegal hearing?

Airport cops are not staffed enough to handle this either. Nor do they want to.

Thirty kids to handle and decide who stays and who goes. Way too much work and way too much time and would undoubtedly result in lawsuits.

Are they to take statements from the other passengers?

"Mommy and Daddy" are not going to come from Boston to Charlotte to pick them up, so do you fly them back to Boston?

Not likely, and the lawyers would be overwhelming, because they'd all be individual cases.

It would be a legal quagmire.

 

What about the bags?

How long would that take to get sorted out?

How many people?

 

Charlotte had a very rough weather day that day. The airplane had already been swapped out once and that certainly took some time.

How about crew duty time limitations?

Probably not an issue, but how about destination curfew issues including customs/immigration and the current presence of Covid screeners?

 

Regarding a previous post about "teaching them a lesson," that is hardly the airlines' task.

 

The point is that it is much more complicated than it was presented in the very limited story published.

 

It's unfortunate that those not involved had to wait until the next morning, but when a group of idiots behaves like this is has effects on others.

 

 

I know as a retired pilot you have the inside scoop on this.  I get it that the airline is not a law enforcement organization.  Agree that it's not the airline's task to raise kids ie "teach them a lesson"

 

But I'm not clear on where the "sit everyone down and have an illegal hearing" part comes into  it?  Airlines have wide discretion these days to deny carriage to anyone who doesn't follow crew instructions.  Have crew go down the aisle and note the seat numbers of anyone who doesn't follow the crew instruction to be seated and place a mask over their face.  Then deplane everyone on some reason (which is what they did anyway), and reboard everyone who isn't flagged (ID'd by seat number) as not following crew instructions.

 

Again, I could be mistaken, but it seems like conflating a legal case with "illegal hearings" and statements from other passengers, with simply denying carriage to unruly pax who don't follow crew instructions, which as a legal case would get exactly .... Nowhere.

 

As it stood, Mommy and Daddy didn't come to get them and the teens wound up having to spend the night in the airport:

Quote

Adults stranded as a result of the shenanigans received hotel vouchers — but age rules for hotel bookings forced the teens to spend an uncomfortable night at the airport.

 

I "get it" that crew hours, landing slots at the destination, departure controls due to weather etc etc may have been involved.  Just sort of sounds like if the concern is "legal quagmire", leaving a bunch of teens at the airport overnight is a bit of a quagmire anyway.

 

If the teens aren't going to hotels anyway, leave their bags on the plane, and fly the bags back in the am?

 

I know I know, these things take time to sort, just seems as though logistically there should have been a better solution from a "customer relations" POV.  My guess is that there is, but the airline didn't have a plan for it because they weren't prepared for "mass mask rebellion"

 

 

[sherpa]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So I guess I'm not clear on why they couldn't unboard the plane for some reason (clean-up?), then reboard everyone who was not acting up and take off?

 

I "get it" that crew hours, landing slots at the destination, departure controls due to weather etc etc may have been involved.  Just sort of sounds like if the concern is "legal quagmire", dumping a bunch of teens at the airport overnight is a bit of a quagmire anyway.

 

You can't simply get them off and get the others on.

There are security issues and that takes time and manpower.

Again, there was a lot of off schedule stuff there because of severe storms earlier, so the manpower was undoubtedly stressed, limiting who could handle the issue.

Regarding the issue of them staying at the airport, that was the only possible solution and although it wasn't mentioned, I guarantee  that personnel were in place to watch the situation closely and protect against any other incident.

It is simply the best solution. Other proposals would have been far more risky.

Those kids were probably provided blankets, pillows and supervision.

 

27 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Aren't the airlines allowed to kick-off anyone they want, if they're not following their rules?  

 

Yep.

If it would have been one two or maybe a few more, that's what would have happened.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, sherpa said:

You can't simply get them off and get the others on.

 

I'm only asking because I know you know something, so I'm taking a chance to become better informed: why not?  Flight attendants can correctly ID meals and drinks for rows and rows of people, they can surely ID 24-27 misbehaving pax.

 

It's my understanding that the airline's latitude to deny boarding is far larger than their latitude to get an already boarded passenger off the plane (in part, what led to the large rapid settlement in the David Dao case). 

 

Quote

There are security issues and that takes time and manpower.

 

I do "get it" that if you're denying re-boarding to a large group of people, that does have the potential to become a security incident.  But so did getting everyone off the plane.

 

Quote

Again, there was a lot of off schedule stuff there because of severe storms earlier, so the manpower was undoubtedly stressed, limiting who could handle the issue.

 

This may be the core issue.  Not enough boots hands and heads - and also as I said, probably "mass mask rebellion" not an issue the airlines had planned for.

 

Well hey y'all Airlines guess what, better plan now because some folks we have around these parts will be seeing those kids as heroes to emulate.

 

Quote

Regarding the issue of them staying at the airport, that was the only possible solution and although it wasn't mentioned, I guarantee  that personnel were in place to watch the situation closely and protect against any other incident.

It is simply the best solution. Other proposals would have been far more risky.

Those kids were probably provided blankets, pillows and supervision.

 

Good to know. 

 

Just a question of why, if the kids can be supervised safely o/n with the whole flight canceled, they couldn't be supervised o/n with just them canceled.

[frostbitmic]

Calling the Charlotte and or NC State police in seems like it would've been the best idea. They could bring in a bus to haul their sorry ***** away and the flight could've gone on. The police could've held them all until their parents drove down to pic them up. The brats should all be banned from flying for a number of years for causing a disturbance onboard an airline.

[sherpa]

Lots of issues here, and lots of corporate experience that industry had in dealing with this type of thing, and paying large sums defending their actions.

 

First, he can't simply disembark and airplane and re-board it.

There are security issues that I'm not going to go into in detail, but essentially, if you are denied, your checked bag is denied.

Not hard to connect the dots on why, but running a bag in the cargo compartment and removing it takes time.

Running, potentially, thirty of them would take a long time.

 

Second, when you attempt to decide which kids are the problem, you open yourself up to claims from those who will claim they weren't, which would probably be most or all of them. There is no time or legal apparatus to handle this at departure time when a number of clocks are ticking, unknown to passengers or readers of message boards.

 

Ergo, you get into a situation that is unsolvable in the time frame essential to solve it. 

 

Responding to another post, police have jurisdictions. You can't call a department of your choice and have them handle an airport situation.

Without arresting them, requiring cause, you can't hold them.

Providing that due cause would require witness testimony.

None of that is going to happen in the window of an airline departure.

 

The best solution is what was chosen.

I'm sure these kids viewed the results of their actions as counterproductive to their Bahama vacation.

The airline paid for hotel and meals for the other passengers.

Sucks being part of a culture that has these miscreants, but is is what it is.

 

Further, I really doubt any rational human being would view punks as "heroes to emulate," and I think upcoming court cases and fines are going to dissuade such "heroes."

 

 

[sherpa]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If the teens aren't going to hotels anyway, leave their bags on the plane, and fly the bags back in the am?

 

This is an example of why people's views on message boards, when commenting on things they are unfamiliar with, should be completely disregarded, and I mean no personal offense.

 

Doing what you suggest would result in an airline losing its operating certificate.

 

In plain English, instantaneous corporate suicide.

 

 

[LeGOATski]

This is our future, everybody

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

This is an example of why people's views on message boards, when commenting on things they are unfamiliar with, should be completely disregarded, and I mean no personal offense.

 

Doing what you suggest would result in an airline losing its operating certificate.

 

In plain English, instantaneous corporate suicide.

 

I'd just like to point out that your highlighted sentences provide the desired information.

 

I have had it happen to friends of mine who were involuntarily bumped ("denied carriage") from a plane, that their luggage went to the destination without them.  Apparently that is not "instantaneous corporate suicide".  I'm pretty sure I've also read stories of passengers who were removed for what the airline considered "required by safety, security, or health reasons, or due to the passenger’s unlawful behavior" where they were left baggageless because their baggage didn't come off the flight, and those airlines are still flying.  So apparently that was not "instantaneous corporate suicide" either.

 

There must be some very fine lines in the denial of carriage rules, or else the operating certificate is a bit harder to lose than you suggest.  

 

I would also bet that what sound like HS or college kids going off to party, were not likely paying extra for checked luggage and had what they needed in carry-on bags.

 

 

 

[sherpa]

41 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'd just like to point out that your highlighted sentences provide the desired information.

 

I have had it happen to friends of mine who were involuntarily bumped ("denied carriage") from a plane, that their luggage went to the destination without them.  Apparently that is not "instantaneous corporate suicide".  I'm pretty sure I've also read stories of passengers who were removed for what the airline considered "required by safety, security, or health reasons, or due to the passenger’s unlawful behavior" where they were left baggageless because their baggage didn't come off the flight, and those airlines are still flying.  So apparently that was not "instantaneous corporate suicide" either.

 

There must be some very fine lines in the denial of carriage rules, or else the operating certificate is a bit harder to lose than you suggest.  

 

I would also bet that what sound like HS or college kids going off to party, were not likely paying extra for checked luggage and had what they needed in carry-on bags.

 

 

 

 

And I would like to point out that you don't know the regulations or protocols.

What I "suggest" is what I know, and breaking those rules is corporate suicide.

[ExiledInIllinois]

***** corporate suicide.  Airlines suck balls, and pandering to the bad passengers has created a downward spiral for the industry. This will just embolden people to act enmass and allow the airlines to hide behind rules, which they did.  One can always hide behind safety and security and fail to do the honorable thing.  They sure as ***** profited from the delay... They didn't take a loss no matter what they tell you about rules and regs. Kudos, they played it right.

 

Did they compensate the others?  Lose money on deal and make the abiding passengers whole.  I would hope.  Give them a free round trip ticket somewhere else?  Put them up in a hotel, take them to breakfast, etc... 😆  Yeah, in 2021 @ the "bus station of the sky."  LoL... Maybe we need to travel less. 😏

[sherpa]

Wrong on so many levels.

Not going to touch the above, with the exception of pointing out that they absolutely do not profit from a delay.

Pure nonsense.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Maybe profit was extreme. My bad... But there's gotta be mechanisms to lesson their loss.  YET they mitigate their loses at the expense of the customers.  Do the honorable thing.  Yet, they blame the rules and stick it to the good ones.  The problems get deeper.   

 

Congratulations, the company survives another day by falling in line with bad behavior and punishing everyone.  Who's gonna change that bad behavior? The individual or corporate.

 

Keep the kicked off one's bags on the plane... Fly it to the destination.  Maybe a bit extreme,  seize anything of value.  😆... Fly all 2 rule abiding passengers if needed, treat them like queens and kings for a day... Shower them with rewards. 

 

You get more flies with honey than vinegar.

 

I got no problem with what they did, just make it up to the rule abiding  patrons.  After all, they're just following the rules too...

[sherpa]

By simply reading the media reports of this, you have absolutely no idea what accommodations the inconvenienced legally compliant passengers were provided, either by hotel and meal vouchers and other probable "awards" to lesson the inconvenience. They don't get published unless the passenger reveals them.

And again, keeping a passenger's bags onboard who has been taken off a flight for non compliance with regulations the fed has imposed is an idiotic, illegal and potentially criminal action.

I guarantee you that if I did that intentionally the FAA would have been after my license as soon as they found out.

Same thing with other cargo issues the carrier agrees to abide by in compliance with FAA and DEA directives. It can get complicated, and things in the cargo compartment are a really serious issue.

There are situations where it is permissible, and I'm not going to go into them anymore than I'm going to discuss other issues that frequently arise that have years of experienced professional and legal guidance governing those issues and informing those protocols. Medical diverts would be an example. 

Forming and expressing an opinion rife with hostility regarding a situation one knows very little about is a bad habit.

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by sherpa

[sherpa]

Probably should have added this on the end of my previous post, but doing what has been suggested by people who don't know the situation may not have been possible.

I'm not interested enough to find out, but it is somewhat likely that these message board suggestions were not an option at all.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

6 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

***** corporate suicide.  Airlines suck balls, and pandering to the bad passengers has created a downward spiral for the industry. This will just embolden people to act enmass and allow the airlines to hide behind rules, which they did.  One can always hide behind safety and security and fail to do the honorable thing.  They sure as ***** profited from the delay... They didn't take a loss no matter what they tell you about rules and regs. Kudos, they played it right.

 

Did they compensate the others?  Lose money on deal and make the abiding passengers whole.  I would hope.  Give them a free round trip ticket somewhere else?  Put them up in a hotel, take them to breakfast, etc... 😆  Yeah, in 2021 @ the "bus station of the sky."  LoL... Maybe we need to travel less. 😏

I defer to folks with expertise on these issues for a variety of reasons.  

 

My commentary comes as the guy sitting in row 22, seat B, sitting next to the chubster who ordered the tuna sub from Subway to eat on the hot shot from Syracuse to Punta Gorda as I leave the seasonal affectation disorder and -5 wind chills in the rear view.  
 

I love the convenience of airline travel, have flown often and 95% of the time without incident.  Several years ago, we were rerouted from Cancun to Ft Lauderdale due to weather conditions at LaGuardia.  We landed, sat on the ground for about 5 hours and were not allowed to deplane as we were not cleared through customs (or whatever they call that).  It was frustrating, of course, made worse when some big cat a few rows back started acting up.  Anxiety, trouble in his home life, on his way to a funeral, general discomfort or whatever the cause I cannot say.  He was loud, boisterous, on a cell phone with Jet Blue corporate, demanding to get off the plane. This created a ruckus as other passengers got upset, words exchanged and I began moving my three young children around in case things got really ugly.  
 

Eventually, a fit looking young man with a sidearm and in a uniform boarded the plane, strode back casually, hand on his firearm and asked directly if the guy had a problem.  When he demanded to get off the plane, the officer said “It’s not going to happen the way you think, I need you to calm down for everybody’s sake.”.  That solved the problem.

 

So, it sucked—the entire process.  I’d have gotten off the plane, definitely didn’t understand whatever keep us on the plane in the moment at the time, but ultimately was glad things didn’t get You Tube ugly. 
 

The airline handled it, just as they did in this scenario.  They handled a problem they didn’t create, had no control over, on a plane where 96% of the stakeholders were frustrated but managed to hold their &$#@ together and where one guy struggled to do so and a few others engaged.  The attendants did a good job generally, though I seem to recall one adopted a DMV style approach which did not help. 
 

Unfortunately for the good folks in this case, the handling involved canceling the flight.  That’s really the definition of handling it, and it certainly sucked for many.  I’m all for tossing the dbags that created the mess in the  gulag, civil penalties, or even mandatory free-for-all sky dives for the 30 with 29 functioning parachutes.  What @sherpa has laid out seems quite logical to me, and takes into account all the dominos that tend to fall when humble folk simply wonder why the &$#@ they didn’t just kick the dbags off and get moving. 

 

 

 

[Greg S]

Their is a very easy solution when dealing with bad passengers on a plane. Just follow Arnold's example

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I defer to folks with expertise on these issues for a variety of reasons.  

 

My commentary comes as the guy sitting in row 22, seat B, sitting next to the chubster who ordered the tuna sub from Subway to eat on the hot shot from Syracuse to Punta Gorda as I leave the seasonal affectation disorder and -5 wind chills in the rear view.  
 

I love the convenience of airline travel, have flown often and 95% of the time without incident.  Several years ago, we were rerouted from Cancun to Ft Lauderdale due to weather conditions at LaGuardia.  We landed, sat on the ground for about 5 hours and were not allowed to deplane as we were not cleared through customs (or whatever they call that).  It was frustrating, of course, made worse when some big cat a few rows back started acting up.  Anxiety, trouble in his home life, on his way to a funeral, general discomfort or whatever the cause I cannot say.  He was loud, boisterous, on a cell phone with Jet Blue corporate, demanding to get off the plane. This created a ruckus as other passengers got upset, words exchanged and I began moving my three young children around in case things got really ugly.  
 

Eventually, a fit looking young man with a sidearm and in a uniform boarded the plane, strode back casually, hand on his firearm and asked directly if the guy had a problem.  When he demanded to get off the plane, the officer said “It’s not going to happen the way you think, I need you to calm down for everybody’s sake.”.  That solved the problem.

 

So, it sucked—the entire process.  I’d have gotten off the plane, definitely didn’t understand whatever keep us on the plane in the moment at the time, but ultimately was glad things didn’t get You Tube ugly. 
 

The airline handled it, just as they did in this scenario.  They handled a problem they didn’t create, had no control over, on a plane where 96% of the stakeholders were frustrated but managed to hold their &$#@ together and where one guy struggled to do so and a few others engaged.  The attendants did a good job generally, though I seem to recall one adopted a DMV style approach which did not help. 
 

Unfortunately for the good folks in this case, the handling involved canceling the flight.  That’s really the definition of handling it, and it certainly sucked for many.  I’m all for tossing the dbags that created the mess in the  gulag, civil penalties, or even mandatory free-for-all sky dives for the 30 with 29 functioning parachutes.  What @sherpa has laid out seems quite logical to me, and takes into account all the dominos that tend to fall when humble folk simply wonder why the &$#@ they didn’t just kick the dbags off and get moving. 

 

 

 

Not saying you have to act up on the spot. Time and place for everything. 

 

What would have happen had they'd told you that you had to park it moving your children around?

 

Did they at least treat you like a king for a day afterwards? 😆 Or kick you to curb with @sherpa's butt wash and broken aviator glasses? 

 

😉😜

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

3 hours ago, Greg S said:

Their is a very easy solution when dealing with bad passengers on a plane. Just follow Arnold's example

 

 

Please don't boser my friend. Heez dead tiret.  

[sherpa]

3 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I defer to folks with expertise on these issues for a variety of reasons.  

 

 

 

An odd habit if you consider various posts in this thread.

 

By the way, for the individual who claimed that these folks were "hiding behind the rules," that is a grossly absurd conclusion.

The "rules" happen to be the law and the penalties are massive. If breaking those rules intentionally, it can lead to certificate action and criminal charges.

Further, there is no hiding. Data link messages are sent and an undeniable electronic track is created on all these things.

 

One example.

A few years ago Congress passed what was called the "Passenger Bill of Rights."

It was passed to penalize carriers for extended delays without deplaning.

I was a 777 captain.  I once computed that if I ever broke that time limit, with all the passengers we carried, if they got the max amount, it would have been far cheaper to simply blow all the slides and evacuate the airplane.

 

Know what the penalty is for allowing an intoxicated passenger on the airplane?

$20,000.

Coincidentally, the Mrs. and I have to enter that hellish madness known as US civil aviation this afternoon to visit our daughter and her husband.

I hope I make it.

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by sherpa

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

 

An odd habit if you consider various posts in this thread.

 

By the way, for the individual who claimed that these folks were "hiding behind the rules," that is a grossly absurd conclusion.

The "rules" happen to be the law and the penalties are massive. If breaking those rules intentionally, it can lead to certificate action and criminal charges.

Further, there is no hiding. Data link messages are sent and an undeniable electronic track is created on all these things.

 

One example.

A few years ago Congress passed what was called the "Passenger Bill of Rights."

It was passed to penalize carriers for extended delays without deplaning.

I was a 777 captain.  I once computed that if I ever broke that time limit, with all the passengers we carried, if they got the max amount, it would have been far cheaper to simply blow all the slides and evacuate the airplane.

 

Know what the penalty is for allowing an intoxicated passenger on the airplane?

$20,000.

Coincidentally, the Mrs. and I have to enter that hellish madness known as US civil aviation this afternoon to visit our daughter and her husband.

I hope I make it.

 

Odd habits and I are old friends.  I trust my instincts on this sort of thing, weeding out wannabes and ne'erdowells.  Admittedly, some folks pretend to be something they are not, so I could miss a time or two. Overall, it seems to work for me. 

 

Best of luck with the trip!  

[Just Jack]

2 hours ago, sherpa said:

One example.

A few years ago Congress passed what was called the "Passenger Bill of Rights."

It was passed to penalize carriers for extended delays without deplaning.

I was a 777 captain.  I once computed that if I ever broke that time limit, with all the passengers we carried, if they got the max amount, it would have been far cheaper to simply blow all the slides and evacuate the airplane.

 

Story time.  Back in the fall of 2007 the ex and I were on a flight to China with a tour group.  JFK-Beijing, direct flight, no stops on Air China.  3pm was our listed departure time.  Everything seems to be going smoothly, we get in line for take off.  I have a window seat and I happened to notice we were getting out of line.  Sure enough, captain announces there's a mechanical issue, so they take us back to a gate, but don't let us off while they fix it.  Two hours later, we leave the gate, get back in line.  Few minutes later, I see us getting back out of line.  Captain announces, they found another issue.  But this time we don't go to a gate, they take us somewhere on the tarmac.  It was then people started wondering about the PBOR.  Turns out it was being discussed, but not yet official.  So we were stuck on board as long as they wanted to keep us there.  Two hours later, plane is fixed again.  Except, because the crew gave us food and drinks, we now had to wait for catering to come and replenish the plane.  So another two hour wait, before we could leave.  Finally at 9pm, we take off for our 14 hour flight.  It's the only time I've been on a plane where the passengers clapped on take off.  

[ExiledInIllinois]

Honestly... Maybe it's just me.  I'd just let a drone fly me. Pay the tech kid $13 bucks an hour and give him a joystick.  I am still taking a bigger chance driving my sorry azz to the airport.

 

I'd take my chances with a $26 ticket and a hermetically sealed transport pod separating me from all the other poor slobs out there. 

 

😆

[Doc]

Apparently there was a delay with the plane, during which some of the kids allegedly became unruly.  They brought in a second plane but the kids weren't allowed to board it.  They were able to fly the next day, though.  So in effect they were kicked-off that flight and the other passengers were allowed to fly.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/teens-defied-mask-rules-delayed-190830065.html

 

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Doc

[RaoulDuke79]

Flying American Airlines next week with my kids who have never flown before. Can't wait for the festivities.....what's the fine for allowing a drunk person to board a plane again?

[Simon]

18 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

Flying American Airlines next week with my kids who have never flown before. Can't wait for the festivities.....what's the fine for allowing a drunk person to board a plane again?

 

If it keeps them quiet, there's no fine for giving those kids as much vodka and Cherry Coke as they can handle.