Beane compensatory picks...he's clever

[Hebert19]

As we know beane loves to stock up on Oline and dline for camp and when inevitably someone goes down he manages to swing some trades.  These 4 picks are all about huge upside is a draft that was NOT very deep.  So...is this the equivalent of beane signing some mid market depth guys.  I think so.  You get this guys in camp and pre season and if it looks like one could start it play significant snaps you then open the possibility to trade someone for picks...including an Addison or someone like that.  

 

I think beane saw our roster as strong and these picks were high risk high reward as a result....but don't be surprised if he manages a few 2022 draft picks out of this.  

[Aussie Joe]

6d chess 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Can't see Addison getting traded with his contract. I think the more likely option would be to trade someone like a Phillips, Zimmer, Johnson, Bates, etc  than someone drafted this year.  You look at when the team traded Teller, he had one year of playing time and film to go off of.  Can't imagine a team trading for a guy we just selected and saw him play all of half of 2 pre-season games.

 

Considering the depth at DE, would they consider trading Epinesa??

[djp14150]

Buffalo doesn’t have many OL u der contract in 2023. With Allen wanting more money you might go with the youth if the prove themselves.

 

same with the older DL players likely nor back for 2022

[Mat68]

When Beane trades Hart for pick give him executive of the 2020's

[davefan66]

7 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Can't see Addison getting traded with his contract. I think the more likely option would be to trade someone like a Phillips, Zimmer, Johnson, Bates, etc  than someone drafted this year.  You look at when the team traded Teller, he had one year of playing time and film to go off of.  Can't imagine a team trading for a guy we just selected and saw him play all of half of 2 pre-season games.

 

Considering the depth at DE, would they consider trading Epinesa??

Beane loves him some Addison.  Had a presser late draft yesterday and went out of his way to commend Addison on taking Epenesa under his wing (along with Hughes).  Also mentioned Addison texted him talking about helping out the new guys.

 

Beane mentioned the restructured contract and “he’ll be a FA next year”.  Agree, don’t think he’s going anywhere this year.

[OldTimer1960]

8 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Can't see Addison getting traded with his contract. I think the more likely option would be to trade someone like a Phillips, Zimmer, Johnson, Bates, etc  than someone drafted this year.  You look at when the team traded Teller, he had one year of playing time and film to go off of.  Can't imagine a team trading for a guy we just selected and saw him play all of half of 2 pre-season games.

 

Considering the depth at DE, would they consider trading Epinesa??

I would like to see Epenesa get through a semi-normal offseason and training camp before considering trading him.  I thought he showed some flashes last year as the season moved along.

[MrSarcasm]

37 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I would like to see Epenesa get through a semi-normal offseason and training camp before considering trading him.  I thought he showed some flashes last year as the season moved along.

Seriously, how about you give him a few more years, the dude was just drafted.

[Orlando Tim]

23 minutes ago, MrSarcasm said:

Seriously, how about you give him a few more years, the dude was just drafted.

Hey if they offer 3 firsts for him you send him packing though, right? 😀 I can't imagine any offer that is forthcoming that makes it a smart trade.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

18 minutes ago, MrSarcasm said:

Seriously, how about you give him a few more years, the dude was just drafted.

 

So what's your solution for the log jam on the D line??  Very likely Hughes, Star, an Addison have no trade value due to big contracts and Addison and Star have no cap savings if cut.  Not sure about Hughes, likely not a huge savings.  So the only ones left are players still on their 1st contracts and not Oliver who starts are Phillips, Zimmer, Johnson, and Epinesa or the FA they just signed.

 

Agree it would be rather unusual to trade a 2nd round pick after one season but something needs to give.  Teams also will know the Bills have to cut some of these guys so will try and wait them out and not agree to trade for them.

[MrSarcasm]

49 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

So what's your solution for the log jam on the D line??  Very likely Hughes, Star, an Addison have no trade value due to big contracts and Addison and Star have no cap savings if cut.  Not sure about Hughes, likely not a huge savings.  So the only ones left are players still on their 1st contracts and not Oliver who starts are Phillips, Zimmer, Johnson, and Epinesa or the FA they just signed.

 

Agree it would be rather unusual to trade a 2nd round pick after one season but something needs to give.  Teams also will know the Bills have to cut some of these guys so will try and wait them out and not agree to trade for them.

If Beane was able to trade Lee Smith I'm fairly confident the 'wizard' will he able to pull something off.

[Royale with Cheese]

10 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Can't see Addison getting traded with his contract. I think the more likely option would be to trade someone like a Phillips, Zimmer, Johnson, Bates, etc  than someone drafted this year.  You look at when the team traded Teller, he had one year of playing time and film to go off of.  Can't imagine a team trading for a guy we just selected and saw him play all of half of 2 pre-season games.

 

Considering the depth at DE, would they consider trading Epinesa??

I think Efe and Addison are fighting for the last DE spot.  

[BarleyNY]

58 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

So what's your solution for the log jam on the D line??  Very likely Hughes, Star, an Addison have no trade value due to big contracts and Addison and Star have no cap savings if cut.  Not sure about Hughes, likely not a huge savings.  So the only ones left are players still on their 1st contracts and not Oliver who starts are Phillips, Zimmer, Johnson, and Epinesa or the FA they just signed.

 

Agree it would be rather unusual to trade a 2nd round pick after one season but something needs to give.  Teams also will know the Bills have to cut some of these guys so will try and wait them out and not agree to trade for them.

I don’t see anything happening this season to rid us of DL other than bottom of the roster guys.  It’s the last season under contract for Hughes, Addison, Phillips, Obada, Butler, Cox and Zimmer.  Plus they are likely to part ways with Star too.  Some of them might be brought back, but without that happening our 2022 DE rotation looks like it’ll be Epensa, Rousseau and Basham.  Our DTs will be Oliver and maybe Star plus whomever else we sign and Rousseau dropping to DT on passing downs. 
 

Addison and Hughes are going to be here this year because the rookies aren’t going to be ready and we need their vet presence.  Plus we know what we are going to get from them on the field, unlike with rookies.  They aren’t going anywhere until next offseason. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by BarleyNY

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

10 hours ago, MrSarcasm said:

If Beane was able to trade Lee Smith I'm fairly confident the 'wizard' will he able to pull something off.

 

Big difference, Lee Smith only had a salary coming of about $2 mil from what I recall, Hughes is due $9.5 mil with $3.1 dead and Addison is due $8.2 mil with $4.8 dead.  So doubt you're trading them, likely the only ones you cna trade are the ones on initial contracts.

 

 

10 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think Efe and Addison are fighting for the last DE spot.  

 

Based on talent, agree, but Addison has a fully guaranteed contract so can't see him getting cut.   Efe and Phillips are the two guys who might get something back in return, maybe a 5th rounder as if the Bills announce they are being shopped, every other team also knows they may be cut.  Efe is also the guy who could be the best of all of them too long term.

 

 

10 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

I don’t see anything happening this season to rid us of DL other than bottom of the roster guys.  It’s the last season under contract for Hughes, Addison, Phillips, Obada, Butler, Cox and Zimmer.  Plus they are likely to part ways with Star too.  Some of them might be brought back, but without that happening our 2022 DE rotation looks like it’ll be Epensa, Rousseau and Basham.  Our DTs will be Oliver and maybe Star plus whomever else we sign and Rousseau dropping to DT on passing downs. 
 

Addison and Hughes are going to be here this year because the rookies aren’t going to be ready and we need their vet presence.  Plus we know what we are going to get from them on the field, unlike with rookies.  They aren’t going anywhere until next offseason. 

 

Agree but good chance the guys you're getting rid of like a Johnson, Phillips, Zimmer, or Efe may be better than the guys replacing them in their rookie year.

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I would like to see Epenesa get through a semi-normal offseason and training camp before considering trading him.  I thought he showed some flashes last year as the season moved along.

 

 

Yeah, he really did start looking good near the end. I'm excited about Epenesa's possibilities. 

[KOKBILLS]

9 hours ago, davefan66 said:

Beane loves him some Addison.  Had a presser late draft yesterday and went out of his way to commend Addison on taking Epenesa under his wing (along with Hughes).  Also mentioned Addison texted him talking about helping out the new guys.

 

Beane mentioned the restructured contract and “he’ll be a FA next year”.  Agree, don’t think he’s going anywhere this year.

 

The pressure point seems to be pointing squarely at Harrison Phillips, Zimmer, Efe, Butler, and Bam...Bam may be the safest of that bunch due to his contributions on ST's. He's one of their core ST's players. The Bills figure to mix Rousseau and Basham into the DT rotation on obvious passing downs, which is going to be close to 60% of the time, and that is going to effect how many DT's they keep. I think it's a little telling they did not Draft a DT, nor have they signed a UDFA DT as of yet. There is going to be a different approach on that D-Line in 2020...They can't keep them all...That much is certain. 

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

I don’t see anything happening this season to rid us of DL other than bottom of the roster guys.  It’s the last season under contract for Hughes, Addison, Phillips, Obada, Butler, Cox and Zimmer.  Plus they are likely to part ways with Star too.  Some of them might be brought back, but without that happening our 2022 DE rotation looks like it’ll be Epensa, Rousseau and Basham.  Our DTs will be Oliver and maybe Star plus whomever else we sign and Rousseau dropping to DT on passing downs. 
 

Addison and Hughes are going to be here this year because the rookies aren’t going to be ready and we need their vet presence.  Plus we know what we are going to get from them on the field, unlike with rookies.  They aren’t going anywhere until next offseason. 

 

 

People keep saying that about Star, that they're likely to part ways with him. There is no reason to think it's true, none.

 

Particularly the way we just drafted.

 

We wouldn't save much money at all. If they cut him after this year there would be $5.1M in dead cap money and we'd save his $6.15M salary and $600K in roster and workout bonus. 

 

Unless Star regresses, there's a good chance he'll be here for a while.

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Thurman#1

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

People keep saying that about Star, that they're likely to part ways with him. There is no reason to think it's true, none.

 

Particularly the way we just drafted.

 

We wouldn't save much money at all. If they cut him after this year there would be $5.1M in dead cap money and we'd save his $6.15M salary and $600K in roster and workout bonus. 

 

Unless Star regresses, there's a good chance he'll be here for a while.

 

 

 

 

 

Honestly, that’s a pretty fair assessment.  Star will be here this season and there’s a good chance that he will be here next due to the structure of his reworked contract.  New money in it is really not that bad, but this season’s salary is fully guaranteed and $2M of next season’s is as well.  The frustration many feel is due to the massive initial contract he got (that we are still seeing cap hits from) and his below average performance since he’s been here.  The two ways I see that this could play out are: 1) he’s good enough this season that he’s here in 2022 or 2) he’s poor enough that the Bills suck it up move on after this season.

[Hebert19]

Either way I just believe he's building potential value as he always does.  Just a different way this time. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

I don’t see anything happening this season to rid us of DL other than bottom of the roster guys.  It’s the last season under contract for Hughes, Addison, Phillips, Obada, Butler, Cox and Zimmer.  Plus they are likely to part ways with Star too.  Some of them might be brought back, but without that happening our 2022 DE rotation looks like it’ll be Epensa, Rousseau and Basham.  Our DTs will be Oliver and maybe Star plus whomever else we sign and Rousseau dropping to DT on passing downs. 
 

Addison and Hughes are going to be here this year because the rookies aren’t going to be ready and we need their vet presence.  Plus we know what we are going to get from them on the field, unlike with rookies.  They aren’t going anywhere until next offseason. 

 

All true, but here's the thing.  From Sal Capaccio's chart on Twitter:

 

Let's say Cox Jr, Love, and Bryant fall right off the roster, onto the practice squad if they like.

 

Hughes and Addison start.  Two guys between Epenesa, Johnson, Obada, Rousseau, and Basham rotate in.  We maybe keep ?4? on the roster?  ?5?

At least 2 gotta go.  At a guess, whoever looks the most raw between Rousseau and Basham develops a hangnail in training camp and winds up on IR.  Who is the other?  Obada is a developmental player in progress, but he would have led the Bills last year in sacks AND QB hits, while typically only playing 30% of the snaps in a game.    Beane has gone out of his way to praise Johnson, who really saw his snaps jump at the end of last season and who is a special teams stalwart as well, but the fact is, he didn't manage much in the way of pressure.  Do we finally break the stranglehold ST has on dictating our roster?

 

At DT, the expected rotation based on 2019 would be Phillips/Lotulelei at 1T and Butler/Oliver at 3T.  But Zimmer did show some chops, and McD does like at least one backup.  I would hate to see Zimmer go.

 

Do they keep 10 DLmen?  11?

 

It's a quandry.

It's a mystery.

I just hope in the end, it's a good problem.

[BillsShredder83]

17 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I would like to see Epenesa get through a semi-normal offseason and training camp before considering trading him.  I thought he showed some flashes last year as the season moved along.

This staff put him through alot last year, and have talked highly about him. You put in the time and effort grooming someone like that because they have "it". They see something in him we haven't really got a chance to see. I would be less than surprised if he's an animal this year. He's had a year to adjust to and dial in a new body type.

 

Taking to DEs doesn't make me think less of him. They always like a stable of dl rotation. I honestly think this is gunna be a helluva coming out party for Epenesa! 

[machine gun kelly]

They’d save around $3.5 mil. for Addison and $ $6.35 mil. For Hughes.  They’ll keep at least one of them, probably Hughes.

 

The guys at the bottom of the roster are at risk.

 

Zimmer

Love 
Cox

Johnson

 

Im not saying they are gone, but they are all fighting for their jobs this summer.  They might keep Addison, but if you had to cut a veteran, he’s most at risk.  I’d bet dollars to donuts they keep Hughes no matter what as he has been a stapl here and a very solid all around player.  It’s more than just sacks.

[eball]

32 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

They’d save around $3.5 mil. for Addison and $ $6.35 mil. For Hughes.  They’ll keep at least one of them, probably Hughes.

 

The guys at the bottom of the roster are at risk.

 

Zimmer

Love 
Cox

Johnson

 

Im not saying they are gone, but they are all fighting for their jobs this summer.  They might keep Addison, but if you had to cut a veteran, he’s most at risk.  I’d bet dollars to donuts they keep Hughes no matter what as he has been a stapl here and a very solid all around player.  It’s more than just sacks.

You didn’t listen to Beane’s post draft PC did you? Addison isn’t going anywhere; the goal is to get him fewer reps because he played more last year than he did in Carolina when he was more productive. He is also a team leader and wants to mentor the young guys.  

[GunnerBill]

37 minutes ago, eball said:

You didn’t listen to Beane’s post draft PC did you? Addison isn’t going anywhere; the goal is to get him fewer reps because he played more last year than he did in Carolina when he was more productive. He is also a team leader and wants to mentor the young guys.  

 

So are they keeping 5 ends? Because I very much doubt Beane is cutting ties with AJ at this stage and Greg and Boogie are making the roster. It is possible they keep 5, with 4 DTs and have 9 linemen on the roster. I heard Beane's presser. I believe hand on heart at this moment in time he thinks Mario will be on the roster. But when September comes and there are hard decisions to be taken things might feel different. Not saying he will definitely be cut, but I don't think it can be ruled out.

[eball]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So are they keeping 5 ends? Because I very much doubt Beane is cutting ties with AJ at this stage and Greg and Boogie are making the roster. It is possible they keep 5, with 4 DTs and have 9 linemen on the roster. I heard Beane's presser. I believe hand on heart at this moment in time he thinks Mario will be on the roster. But when September comes and there are hard decisions to be taken things might feel different. Not saying he will definitely be cut, but I don't think it can be ruled out.

 

Several of these guys can move inside on rush downs.  There are enough snaps for everyone and having 5 DEs fresh is a good thing.

[BarleyNY]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

All true, but here's the thing.  From Sal Capaccio's chart on Twitter:

 

Let's say Cox Jr, Love, and Bryant fall right off the roster, onto the practice squad if they like.

 

Hughes and Addison start.  Two guys between Epenesa, Johnson, Obada, Rousseau, and Basham rotate in.  We maybe keep ?4? on the roster?  ?5?

At least 2 gotta go.  At a guess, whoever looks the most raw between Rousseau and Basham develops a hangnail in training camp and winds up on IR.  Who is the other?  Obada is a developmental player in progress, but he would have led the Bills last year in sacks AND QB hits, while typically only playing 30% of the snaps in a game.    Beane has gone out of his way to praise Johnson, who really saw his snaps jump at the end of last season and who is a special teams stalwart as well, but the fact is, he didn't manage much in the way of pressure.  Do we finally break the stranglehold ST has on dictating our roster?

 

At DT, the expected rotation based on 2019 would be Phillips/Lotulelei at 1T and Butler/Oliver at 3T.  But Zimmer did show some chops, and McD does like at least one backup.  I would hate to see Zimmer go.

 

Do they keep 10 DLmen?  11?

 

It's a quandry.

It's a mystery.

I just hope in the end, it's a good problem.

Damn that’s a good point.  That’s a lot of DL.  Last season the Bills opened with 9 DL on the 53 man roster:

Defensive line (9)

Ed Oliver, Vernon Butler, Harrison Phillips, Quinton Jefferson, Jerry Hughes, Trent Murphy, Mario Addison, A.J. Epenesa, Darryl Johnson

Link

 

Even if we keep 10 this year that gets eaten up quickly.  Here’s my first 9:

Hughes, Addison, Epenesa, Rousseau, Basham, Star, Oliver, Phillips and Butler.  Then maybe they go with one more of the rest?  Time for Beane to work the phones for some late round picks for some of them. 

[Hebert19]

14 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Damn that’s a good point.  That’s a lot of DL.  Last season the Bills opened with 9 DL on the 53 man roster:

Defensive line (9)

Ed Oliver, Vernon Butler, Harrison Phillips, Quinton Jefferson, Jerry Hughes, Trent Murphy, Mario Addison, A.J. Epenesa, Darryl Johnson

Link

 

Even if we keep 10 this year that gets eaten up quickly.  Here’s my first 9:

Hughes, Addison, Epenesa, Rousseau, Basham, Star, Oliver, Phillips and Butler.  Then maybe they go with one more of the rest?  Time for Beane to work the phones for some late round picks for some of them. 

Exactly.   He's going to commit to all of them...until he doesn't.  First injury elsewhere he will jump on it

[machine gun kelly]

4 hours ago, eball said:

You didn’t listen to Beane’s post draft PC did you? Addison isn’t going anywhere; the goal is to get him fewer reps because he played more last year than he did in Carolina when he was more productive. He is also a team leader and wants to mentor the young guys.  

I didn’t, but read on his praise of developing Epenesa last year.  He also said in the past the praises of J. Phillips and Shaq, and let them walk.  Beane also spoke highly at different times on J.Brown.

 

Im not saying he’s definitely gone.  I’m saying from a previous poster there is a cap savings from cutting him and of the two, they would keep Hughes first.  They may keep both E-Man.  It really depends in camp how the rookies look and how Star looks. They certainly aren’t keeping everyone.  I appreciate the comment bud.

[eball]

8 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

I didn’t, but read on his praise of developing Epenesa last year.  He also said in the past the praises of J. Phillips and Shaq, and let them walk.  Beane also spoke highly at different times on J.Brown.

 

Im not saying he’s definitely gone.  I’m saying from a previous poster there is a cap savings from cutting him and of the two, they would keep Hughes first.  They may keep both E-Man.  It really depends in camp how the rookies look and how Star looks. They certainly aren’t keeping everyone.  I appreciate the comment bud.

 

Beane admitted he didn’t go into the draft expecting to draft two edge rushers so these three days certainly impacted the Bills’ roster construction.  That said, they still clearly really like Addison.  Beane said he got a text from Addison after the draft about being ready to mentor the young guys.  They already saved money on Addison.  I simply think the puzzle pieces line up that Addison, Hughes, Epenesa, Rousseau, and Basham will all be on this roster in September, with several of them being flexible enough to rotate inside on rush downs and keep everyone fresh.

[billsfan1959]

20 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Beane admitted he didn’t go into the draft expecting to draft two edge rushers so these three days certainly impacted the Bills’ roster construction.  That said, they still clearly really like Addison.  Beane said he got a text from Addison after the draft about being ready to mentor the young guys.  They already saved money on Addison.  I simply think the puzzle pieces line up that Addison, Hughes, Epenesa, Rousseau, and Basham will all be on this roster in September, with several of them being flexible enough to rotate inside on rush downs and keep everyone fresh.

 

So much can happen before the cutdown to the final roster spots. However, barring something unforseen, I agree with respect to Addison. I really would be surprised if he is not on the roster, and, to be honest, I think he is even more valuable after drafting Rousseau and Basham. Any way we analyze this, there are, potentially, going to be some difficult decsions regarding the final roster. That's a good problem to have.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

Beane admitted he didn’t go into the draft expecting to draft two edge rushers so these three days certainly impacted the Bills’ roster construction.  That said, they still clearly really like Addison.  Beane said he got a text from Addison after the draft about being ready to mentor the young guys.  They already saved money on Addison.  I simply think the puzzle pieces line up that Addison, Hughes, Epenesa, Rousseau, and Basham will all be on this roster in September, with several of them being flexible enough to rotate inside on rush downs and keep everyone fresh.

 

TBH, and it’s counterintuitive in some ways, I wouldn’t be totally shocked if Hughes is a surprise cut or trade.  

 

Overthecap, which was more accurate about the details of Sanders void year and a couple others (but does make mistakes) shows Addison as having $4.75M guaranteed money this year in addition to signing bonus.  That wouldn’t be a shock - it’s typical for the team to give guarantees in exchange for taking a pay cut.  So according to Overthecap, it costs money to cut Addison right now and post-June 1 only saves $1.4M with $2M hit next year.

 

I think it’s notable that the Bills evidently didn’t ask Hughes to take a re-negotiation that would push any of his $$ into next year or to extend him.  I think Hughes is a quandary for the Bills: if he’s all fired up crazy Gary, he can get to the QB but he also gets stupid prizes (penalties) and trash-talks the refs.  If he’s more mature, reasoned Jerry, he may lack that extra edge that lets him get home, and the refs still “see nothing” when he’s held.  

 

It would seem stupid ‘cuz “vet leadership” and historically, by far our best pass rusher - but that’s my thinking right now.  It’s gonna depend some on how the Bills evaluate him, do they see him as having an “off year” last year due to lack of interior pressure/lack of holding calls or do they see him as having lost a step?

3 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Damn that’s a good point.  That’s a lot of DL.  Last season the Bills opened with 9 DL on the 53 man roster:

Defensive line (9)

Ed Oliver, Vernon Butler, Harrison Phillips, Quinton Jefferson, Jerry Hughes, Trent Murphy, Mario Addison, A.J. Epenesa, Darryl Johnson

Link

 

Even if we keep 10 this year that gets eaten up quickly.  Here’s my first 9:

Hughes, Addison, Epenesa, Rousseau, Basham, Star, Oliver, Phillips and Butler.  Then maybe they go with one more of the rest?  Time for Beane to work the phones for some late round picks for some of them. 

 

I think that’s a good assessment.  The thing is, Beane has been talking up Darryl Johnson (and they did give him more playing time at the end of the season) who is also a ST ace - and Zimmer IMHO has earned his stripes.  I’m wondering if Beane tries to swap Johnson to a team that came out of the draft with excess at CB or RB.