Interesting Allen vs Jackson Debate (Wiley vs Acho)

[BigDingus]

 

This is one of the more interesting discussions I've seen on the topic (possibly because they're so passionate), as it just focuses on best players under age 25. Surprised to hear Wiley take Jackson's side, but really Acho's points make more sense to me. Even at the end where he's discussing Bleacher Report's criteria, he makes the case for Allen quite well.

The point on pass yards to rush yards ratio is also interesting. Jackson has 2.4 pass yards for every 1 rushing yard. No QB has ever won a SB even close to such a ratio. Allen in comparison has 10 passing yards per 1 rushing yard. Russell Wilson had the lowest ratio to win a SB at 6.2 pass yards for each rushing yard. And if you look at each of Allen's season, his rush yards have decreased while passing yards increased, and wouldn't you know it...he's gotten more successful. 

Lamar Jackson on the other hand has over 1,000 rushing yards each of the last 2 seasons, and though his rushing total last year dropped 200 yards, his passing yards also dropped nearly 400 yards (so 2 to 1 still). Good discussion overall, Josh just has a clearer path to winning a Super Bowl imo.

[wppete]

Acho is a true idiot. What an embarrassment. 

[H2o]

This was the discussion a couple of weeks ago, where Bucky Brooks makes a donkey out of himself considering he's now saying the Ravens need to let Lamar "graduate". Acho is at least consistent with his opinions. 

 

[Logic]

9 minutes ago, wppete said:

Acho is a true idiot. What an embarrassment. 

That seems unfair.

I thought he made some very valid points in this video. The pass yards to rush yards ratio as it relates to Super Bowl winners, for instance, is a very interesting statistic that I had never seen before.

p.s. These opinions rarely represent how a talking head really feels. Each guy is assigned a talking point, and then they find ways to back up the talking point they've been assigned. That's how these shows work. Any accusation of inconsistency of opinion or things like that should go out the window. They're debating for entertainment purposes, and the particular needs of each program to have the various positions in each debate represented dictate who will espouse what position.

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Logic

[wppete]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

That seems unfair.

I thought he made some very valid points in this video. The pass yards to rush yards ratio as it relates to Super Bowl winners, for instance, is a very interesting statistic that I had never seen before.

 

Im not just talking about  that video im

talking about the last 2 years of him on tv. He’s an embarrassment. IMHO...  

 

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by wppete

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

The simple fact is that Josh is a better player than Lamar right now.  If you want to compare career stats, that is a different discussion.  There is not a single GM that would take Lamar over Josh if given the choice tomorrow.  The Ravens GM might disagree if the questions were asked in a hypothetical situation, but when the hammer hits the pin, he would undoubtably choose Josh.

[BigDingus]

1 minute ago, wppete said:

Im not just talking about  that video im

talking about the last 2 years of him on tv. He’s an embarrassment. IMHO...  

 

 

 

Perhaps, but some of the points he makes in the 2nd half of the video made me actually agree with him.

I've always thought Lamar was an awesome talent, but seeing how no QB with stats even close to his have ever won a Super Bowl is pretty eye opening. Also, the criteria Bleacher Report goes off of for that list where potential is "significant" combined with that stat shows Allen has a more clear path to a SB ring one day than Jackson.

It's pretty easy to see how someone with Allen's play style can translate that to a SB win, especially if he continues to improve (even if he never has a statistical season as great as 2020), whereas Jackson would likely need to change his play style pretty drastically or else become the 1st QB to ever win playing like a team's RB.

[RobbRiddick]

I'll watch the odd clip from shows like this during the season but during the off season it's brutal. I just looked at the clip and had to switch off when Bucky started talking. What a tool that man is. I seem to remember he used to crap on Allen before he was drafted and now he's still trying to say Lamar is a better QB. As has already been mentioned in this thread, how many GMs would choose him over Allen given the choice? I don't think even the Ravens would pick him 

[Virgil]

Wiley is a hack and overrated in everything he does on and off the field 

[Dopey]

2 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Wiley is a hack and overrated in everything he does on and off the field 

This.

[BarleyNY]

20 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

Perhaps, but some of the points he makes in the 2nd half of the video made me actually agree with him.

I've always thought Lamar was an awesome talent, but seeing how no QB with stats even close to his have ever won a Super Bowl is pretty eye opening. Also, the criteria Bleacher Report goes off of for that list where potential is "significant" combined with that stat shows Allen has a more clear path to a SB ring one day than Jackson.

It's pretty easy to see how someone with Allen's play style can translate that to a SB win, especially if he continues to improve (even if he never has a statistical season as great as 2020), whereas Jackson would likely need to change his play style pretty drastically or else become the 1st QB to ever win playing like a team's RB.

This kind of talk is freaking me out.  I just read how Josh beat all the odds in becoming the successful QB he is.  THAT never happened with a QB like HIM before.  Let’s not tempt fate here with Jackson.  While I certainly agree that his style isn’t one that usually has longevity or a lot of playoff wins, let’s not get cockey.  And with all due respect, I thought he’d bust quickly, but he really improved as a passer last season.  He’s still not where you’d want him to be as a QB, but he has already taken one step forward.  Here’s hoping that’s his ceiling. 

[TheFunPolice]

Jackson makes some insane plays, and it's fun to watch how the Ravens have totally tailored their offense to his skillset. There are so many ways to play football, so it's neat to see a team do something totally different and actually win doing it. 

 

The Ravens can 100% win a Super Bowl like this. They win a lot of games, and all it takes is the right mix of circumstances. 

 

If they can get a lead in a playoff game early and go with their brand of running the ball, great defense, and Lamar making things happen, they can beat anyone. 

 

When they get behind it doesn't work, but every team has its weakness. 

 

I would still rather have Allen at QB, and I expect to see him take the Bills to a Super Bowl, because top 5 QBs get there eventually. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by TheFunPolice

[Putin]

46 minutes ago, chknwing334 said:

The simple fact is that Josh is a better player than Lamar right now.  If you want to compare career stats, that is a different discussion.  There is not a single GM that would take Lamar over Josh if given the choice tomorrow.  The Ravens GM might disagree if the questions were asked in a hypothetical situation, but when the hammer hits the pin, he would undoubtably choose Josh.

I also think that Josh’s last year was even better then Lamar’s MVP year , 

there’s no doubt in my mind that every team that needs a QB if having a choice between Josh & Lamar would ALL pick the right Josh !!! 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Putin

[DCOrange]

57 minutes ago, Logic said:

That seems unfair.

I thought he made some very valid points in this video. The pass yards to rush yards ratio as it relates to Super Bowl winners, for instance, is a very interesting statistic that I had never seen before.

p.s. These opinions rarely represent how a talking head really feels. Each guy is assigned a talking point, and then they find ways to back up the talking point they've been assigned. That's how these shows work. Any accusation of inconsistency of opinion or things like that should go out the window. They're debating for entertainment purposes, and the particular needs of each program to have the various positions in each debate represented dictate who will espouse what position.

 

I don't think it's all that interesting to be honest. The game has evolved so much from where it was in the past. Running QBs were barely even a thing up until the past 10 or so years and there's never really been a QB like Lamar before so obviously there's also never been a super bowl winner like Lamar before. None of that means Lamar is incapable of winning a Super Bowl; far worse QBs have won them.

 

Not saying any of this to suggest Lamar should be ahead of Allen right now in these dumb rankings. I do want to see Allen match this past season's play or at least be close to it before I'd cement my opinion, but I'd lean towards Allen at this point. Allen clearly had the better season last year. Lamar clearly had the better season the previous two. Ultimately it boils down to whether or not you think this past season is more indicative of the future than the prior years were and we're all obviously hoping and feeling pretty confident that it is.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, chknwing334 said:

The simple fact is that Josh is a better player than Lamar right now.  If you want to compare career stats, that is a different discussion.  There is not a single GM that would take Lamar over Josh if given the choice tomorrow.  The Ravens GM might disagree if the questions were asked in a hypothetical situation, but when the hammer hits the pin, he would undoubtably choose Josh.

Why didn't they ask each other who going to be the better qb in 3 years or 5 years from now? Lamar's future projectabillity will never be as high as Josh. Lamar will eventually follow in the footsteps of Michael Vick.

[Rigotz]

Wow, that was headache-inducing.

 

Josh has gotten better each year. His best year is better than Lamar's best.

Lamar has not gotten better each year. His style of play doesn't seem to work in the playoffs.

 

Not really a tough decision.

[Putin]

I know in Russia we are not allowed to debate, BUT Why is there even a debate here  ??? 
Josh Allen was a top 5 or better QB in every category where was Lamar ranked last year ??? Oh I forgot Lamar is a RB !!!
 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Putin

[McBean]

Josh Allen

 

 

 

 

Lamar Jackson

 

 

 

Not even close.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

You literally learn nothing from these “analysts”. 
 

Two busts squabbling over players that have already done more in their careers than these two combined.

 

Pull out a stat sheet Marcellus. 

By the way, Herbert may be just as good as Allen already. 
 

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Straight Hucklebuck

[buffaloboyinATL]

Those 2 have some pretty entertaining debates. I enjoy listening to them. 

[Protocal69]

Well my replies are all over the comment section of the video under the name Mastenpark. I have gotten into sooooo many arguements over this topic I’ve lost count. All Lamar apologist run to the the MVP award and 36 passing TD’s with no context. They don’t want to talk about the low passing numbers and the int% going up every year. When Lamar is doing great it’s all about him but when he does bad it’s all about a lack of weapons nevermind that until this year he had a top running game, excellent OL and defense to rely on.